The Case for Paternalism: Dana White Should Not Let Rampage Jackson Take a Fight at UFC 98
by Michael Rome on Mar 10, 2009 9:43 AM EDT
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Dana White has always been friendly with Rampage Jackson, but their relationship became much closer when Dana stood by Rampage at his darkest hour. Following his meltdown and subsequent police chase, Dana could have easily washed his hands of the situation and terminated Jackson. If he did that, who knows where Jackson would be now. Instead, he stood by Jackson, found him a new camp and manager, and brought him right back with the fight he wanted most, a rematch with Wanderlei Silva. He didn't need to do this, the UFC would be just fine without Rampage. This is why Rampage was so willing to take a fight in March on short notice, and looks poised to do it again in May. He would do anything for Dana now.
It's one thing to fight three times in four months, but it's completely different to fight Wanderlei Silva, Keith Jardine, and Rashad Evans in four months. Jackson looked a little sluggish and admitted that he felt overtrained for this last fight; there is no reason to put him in the same position against Rashad Evans. If and when those two ever fight, fans deserve to see both at 100% of their capabilities.
Rampage is probably going to agree to this fight, so it's up to Dana to be responsible and say no. Training this much in such a short period of time is risking injury, I believe that even if they schedule this fight, the odds are good Rampage will end up overtraining and hurting himself in practice.
From the business angle, they will lose 4-6 million dollars in the short run on this decision, but it can be made up on the back end. Rampage will probably be in position to fight the winner of an Evans v. Machida match by September, giving everyone plenty of time to get healthy. Under this model you could probably do three light heavyweight title fights this year instead of two, the losses can be mitigated. My personal belief is that Rampage would best Evans, but Evans has a better shot than Rampage at beating Machida. There is appeal in a battle of undefeated fighters for the title, and with a grudge match slated for the co-main event this card will still do pretty well on pay per view.
I don't think it's any kind of moral outrage if Rampage takes the fight. He'd make a lot of money, and with Quinton it's always possible that he lands that big punch that changes the game. I just think it would be unfortunate to have to see a 100% Rashad Evans fight a 75% Quinton Jackson. Bring on the title shot for Lyoto Machida.
[UPDATE] by Nick Thomas - According to Sportsnet.ca: Jackson suffered an injury to his hand in his win over Keith Jardine.Evans Expects Machida at UFC 98:
"I don’t know. I’ve just got that feeling," said Evans. "Just listening to Rampage when we were in the ring talking he was kind of like, ‘Yeah man you’re lucky I wasn’t 100 percent’ and he started making excuses and I was thinking like it sounds like an excuse-fest is about to happen, so I know he ain’t going to take no fight with me. He’s making excuses now."
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I agree for the most part, but I almost wonder if part of the thinking here doesn’t ignore the business model of most other professional sports, including the Japanese version of MMA.
Rampage was looking forward for time off to party, he admitted as much himself. An NFL or NHL player would never find such an excuse viable, and those guys suffer the same familial alienation that a fighter deep in the mires of a long camp would.
In all fairness, this fight is about ten weeks away. Is it ideal for Rampage? No, of course not, but its not like he didn’t fight under the same circumstances in Pride with no complaints. I like that the stateside version of MMA allows for that kind of entitlement, the athletes do deserve it, but sometimes you will need to extend yourself. If Rampage wants the title shot, it’s in May. If he doesn’t, a rematch with a viable contender should be required before it’s offered again.
Dana even said that if he doesn’t take it he gets the winner of Rashad and Lyoto. The fact that Pride did it is irrelevent, Pride shortened careers with their ridiculous schedule. It’s the blueprint of what not to do. It’s not really comparable to other sports since there is no “offseason” for MMA fighters.
by Michael Rome on Mar 9, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he did something like a 10-12 week camp for the last fight, and actually spent 2-3 weeks before the 4 week camp helping a friend train. Without proper time to come down your body never fully recovers.
by Michael Rome on Mar 9, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
From what I gather from fighters, being back as soon as Rampage was, it felt more to his body like one long camp than doing a single camp, a long break, and then a short camp. So for him it was more like a 16-20 week camp.
by Michael Rome on Mar 9, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, didn’t know that.
I don’t feel strongly either way, but I’m hoping he decides he needs time to heal/relax/conceive more love children. Lyoto vs. Rashad is the right fight to make in terms of competition.
No
I think Rampage V Rashad is the fight that needs to be made now. I love Machida, but for eyeballs and $$ and the best of everyone involved that is the fight that needs to be made.
Machida will hold the 205 belt for a long time but Rampage vs. Rashad needs to be for the title or its loses significance (black on black crime).
Considering you only need to take a week off for your body to rest and heal
He can still get a 7 week camp in no problem. There is no physical issue only a mental fatigue issue. I think he’ll be in the best shape of his life come time for the Rashad fight.
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 10, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
really?
Adter 16 weeks of training. Even some weight lifters I know take 3 – 4 weeks off between cycles…
My personal belief is that Rampage would best Evans, but Evans has a better shot than Rampage at beating Machida.
did i understand that correctly? so you think rampage wins against evans, but you think lyoto would beat both of them? ..i thought you were the guy who wouldnt believe that until you see machida take a power puch from rampage?
I think that the evans/page fight is about almost even, but if rampage shows up ‘sluggish’ too, then i think evans takes it..
I think Rampage has a shot at beating Machida, I just think Evans has a better shot at doing it. Similarly, I think Rampage would beat Evans. Hope that clears it up.
by Michael Rome on Mar 9, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
i know they both have a shot.. even Jardine had a shot at beating rampage.. but i never believed that he would actually win..
but does they having a shot, mean you think machida would win? or you just think machida is a bit favored but you’d still pick rampage/evans..
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 9, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
In Rampage/Machida I think Machida wins 7/10, and in Rashad/Machida I think it’s closer to 50/50 with a slight edge to Machida.
by Michael Rome on Mar 9, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing is, even at 7/10, it’s still Quinton Jackson and you only fight once.
by Michael Rome on Mar 9, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
yup.. i think if rampage lands the big punch like he did in the wanderlei fight he'd win..
but in my opinoin, i just dont think he lands it..
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 9, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
No offense, but you also think Jardine had a shot on Saturday
We must have been watching different fights. I don’t think Rampage gets enough credit. I’ve got Machida winning that fight 6/10 times, with a fully energized and aggressive Rampage having a really good chance. Rampage is a dangerously powerful striker, while also technically proficient. And I also believe we haven’t seen the best Rampage yet. I think it’s a huge, huge fight and has the potential to be a legendary rivalry.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 9, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think we've seen the best Rampage yet either
But – I’m starting to doubt if we ever will. He’s got amazing talent but I’m not sure he’ll ever reach that potential.
Machida over Rampage 7/10 is about right.
It's not math, it's science
Those probabilties are just speculation. If you don’t think Rampage has a better than 30% chance against Machida, who does? I personally don’t at all agree with the seemingly popular assessment that Rashad has a better shot against Machida than Rampage.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 10, 2009 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
well agree to disagree
It’s not math or science. Its MMA and yeh of course these probabilities are speculation. Who has a better than 30% chance over Machida? Fedor maybe?
I strongly beleive a) Rashad has a better chance against Lyoto than Rampage.
b) Lyoto will hold the title until someone with amazing wrestling and submissions as well good striking shows up at LHW. Of course, everyone has a the chance to get knocked out but Lyoto almost never gets hit, so the chance of that lucky punch landing are much lower than against other fighters. The only way I see Lyoto losing consistently is someone who can close the distance well and get into a greco clinch, control the greco and bring Lyoto to the floor and put him on his back. Then GnP to victory.
I actually agree that GSP probably has a better chance of beating Lyoto than anyone at LHW, because Lyoto isn’t actually that much bigger and his style doesn’t really use size as an advantage. When fighting Lyoto the size difference is negated (which is one of the reasons why Rampage won’t be able to impose his will on Lyoto) (and also why BJ Penn fared much better against Lyoto than other much bigger fighters such as Franklin or Thiago Silva).
GSP may well be able to close the distance and bring Lyoto to the ground.
So what you're saying is you think Jon Jones will defeat Machida?
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 10, 2009 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Give him 2 -3 years
and about 6 – 8 fight experience and he could be a contender.
I think Jones has loads of potential. Guy is only 21!!!
btw
replied to ur Don King thing.
Which I gather but you’re missing the point. It’s not just that Don King is bad himself. He also brings a bad name. A taint that MMA at this point can do without.
I don’t want him, his likeness or anything else anywhere near MMA.
I think you are forcing big words. It sounded to me as if Rampage didn’t want to take the fight so soon and Dana was putting him the the tough spot of having to say yes. Paternalism implies that Rampage would take the fight without reguard to if he should take the fight. I just think thats not the case. If Dana called him tonight and took him off the hot seat he would push back the title shot with no problem. Rampage is smarter then people give him credit, he knows the risk of taking the fight too soon and he knows the risk of letting Machida get the first crack at Evans (The Karo Example). I think it is in the best interest to take it. The risk of not is too great. It will be a short camp with zero down time between fights, but he should put his head down and do it, assuming no major injuries coming off his fight with Jardine.
I don’t even know what you’re talking about in terms of “forcing big words.” The paternalism would be on Dana’s part, telling Rampage no even if he wants the fight. There is no Karo style risk, he is directly in line to get the winner as Dana said. The real risk of injury is doing three straight hard camps.
by Michael Rome on Mar 9, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I know what paternalism is, I just don’t think it has a place here. Dana is forcing the issue, I don’t think Rampage wants the fight, but he has to take it. The situation is not how you are seeing it. And sure Rampage is in line, but would he get a fight between now and title time? He was in line before he took the Jardine fight. There is risk of injury in every senario, but delaying the fight is risking a loss of a title shot.
I don’t think we even disagree, I do think Dana is forcing it, and I think he should take a step back and just do Lyoto v. Rashad. At this point the fight is offered to Rampage, and he will probably take it.
by Michael Rome on Mar 9, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d take Rampage at 100% vs Evans. But the unfortunate reality of their impending bout (should it occur) is that Evans would likely not be fully credited in defeating Rampage, should he emerge victorious. It would be too convenient an excuse to say that Rampage wasn’t at full strength. Evans should be just as against fighting a tired and overtrained Jackson as Jackson himself. Unfortunately, the only way out of this for the UFC is to backpedal. They panicked when Mir pulled out. That post-fight shit talking session rung up a lot of PPV buys for May. I see the only consolation, if Jackson chooses not to fight, being that Machida defeats Evans, Rampage defeats Machida, and the UFC has a convenient Rampage vs Evans story line for early 2010. Though it’s clear that capitalizing on their confrontation would be most marketable in the short term.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
That’s kind of the other point here. It’s not like this fight goes away. There are three possible scenarios where this fight still happens:
1) Rashad beats Lyoto and then fights Rampage.
2) Lyoto wins, Rampage fights him and beats him, defends against Rashad.
2a) Lyoto wins, then beats Rampage, and then Rampage and Rashad fight in order to get back in the title hunt.
This fight can still happen in a number of ways.
by Michael Rome on Mar 9, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
yup. thats why i think they should put machida in..
i’d hate to see people making excuses for anyone not being 100%…
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 9, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Months back I detailed a scenario in which those three would battle at the top of 205 for a long time to come (most notably that I think Rampage and Machida could quite possibly end up having a trilogy, because I believe they’re easily 1 & 2 and I could see Rampage stealing one). In any case, it’s not all doom and gloom, and there are a lot of interesting options going forward, regardless of how this Rampage situation pans out. Unfortunately for everyone else at 205, it’s going to be a long time before they get an opportunity to vie for the title.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 9, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, and I digress
BE has been giving me fits all day.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
I like the way Rome frames this argument. Dana supported Rampage and now he’s loyal. Another way to see it is that Dana pushed Rampage to rise to his past two challenges and it has paid off. So, that’s what Dana is doing. Personally, I feel like Rampage won his fight against Forrest and should have gotten an immediate title shot. Now, he’s overworked the comeback trail in a short period of time and deserves to have a little more say in his fate.
but wait.. wasn't it rampage who wanted to fight jardine?
he already had a title shot by winning against wandy, and dana said he put the jardine fight cause rampage wanted to stay active but evans couldnt get ready in march..
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 9, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Rampage thought he was fighting Rashad, accepted, and then Rashad wouldn’t fight that fast. They needed Jackson to fight there as a favor so he took the fight with Jardine.
by Michael Rome on Mar 9, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
really? i didnt know that..
so that whole thing was a favor from jackson to save a card? hmm.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 9, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
If Machida has the belt for a little while I wouldn’t mind seeing him fight GSP. Ironically, while Machida gives all the Light Heavies fits, it seems to me like GSP would have the best shot at beating him over most of the other contenders.
I don’t, but I do think having GSP in camp will give Rashad a very good training partner with Machida, just given his karate skill and excellent takedown defense. His style is obviously far different, but I think GSP can at least give Rashad a decent simulation if he tries to mimick machida.
by Michael Rome on Mar 9, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
WTF dude.. Weightclasses.. weightclasses..
GSP would already be undersized fighting silva at MW.. what more a 220 guy cutting to 205..
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 9, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Uhh, do you know for sure that Machida is 220 cutting to 205?
Because he looks way way smaller than all the other light heavies to me. Also BJ, a lightweight gave Machida all he could handle. GSP is way bigger than BJ and has improved at least as much as Machida since that fight. BJ showed that if you’re quick enough Machida can be taken down.
And GSP has already expressed a desire to move up in weight classes. I know the logical next step is middle, but Machida seems about the same size as Silva.
1. GSP had a desire to move up weight classes, meaning MW, to face silva, not LHW..
2. he’d be really stupid to jump up from 170 – 205..
3. Machida fought at heavyweight before, now he cuts to LHW..
4. If machida was the same size as Silva, then he’d be fighting at MW too.. but no, he’s a big LHW and has to cut to get to 205..
5. just because BJ gave machida fits, and GSP beat BJ, doesnt mean GSP beats machida.. that is not how mma math works..
I dont even know why im wasting my time arguing this..
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 10, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions
1. On some video I watched GSP said his main long-term goal was to go up through the weight classes, as far as HW if he could. I’m not saying let’s have it right now. Machida doesn’t even have a title shot for crying out loud. This is the internet dude. It’s 2009. I’m typing from the comfort of my suburban home in Seattle. Don’t get your panties wadded up because of my daydreams.
2. He wouldn’t be jumping from 170 to 205. There are dozens of ways to do this (catch-weight, or move up through weight classes).
3. Where do you get that he cuts from 220? He was noticeably smaller than Soku, looked like a MW compared to Tito, and was slightly smaller than Thiago Silva.
4. Not necessarily from what I could tell. When Silva fought at LHW he fit it naturally and seemed to almost dwarf Irvin. This is of course subjective. It seems like it to me. I’m no authority though.
5. Obviously MMA math doesn’t work like that every time, but I see parallels in this instance. GSP is just as quick or quicker than BJ, and is better at taking fighters down than BJ. FWIW, I don’t think that GSP beats Machida, but it’s ironically interesting as Machida seems to give everyone else fits, but I see him as the one guy in LHW GSP could compete with.
I hope Rampage gets the opportunity to fight Rashad, or whomever the champion is, with the benefit of time to rest and a proper camp. I’d rather both men come in at as close to 100% as possible.
I do believe that some are discounting the abilities of Rashad. I think he has an excellent chance against a 100% Rampage. His boxing has become quite good and everyone knows about his wrestling base. He’s simply far better than he was just several matches ago, and he’s shown it against Liddell and Griffin. I like him in five round matches, because he prefers to not rush his attacks. Championship bouts give him plenty of time to work.
I think Rashad is awesome
and in my mind it’s very close to 50/50.
He’s good, but no Machida. He lost the first 2 rounds to Forrest on every judge’s score cards and on mine as well. He did what was necessary to win fair and square, but it’s not like he showed some otherworldly level of standup against Forrest.
by Michael Rome on Mar 10, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeh
but somehow I think that was ok for him. It may have been part of the gameplan or he’s just a slow starter. I recall him losing the first part of the Chuck fight as well.
Don’t get me wrong – I think Machida will win more often that not. I think Rashad has a better chance of beating Rampage than more give him credit for though.
Rashad/Ramapge – 50/50
Lyoto/Rampage – 70/30
Lyoto/Rashad – 60/40
I would probably give Machida the edge against Rashad. Against Rampage, I believe Rashad has a very good shot. Rashad may potentially give up the first two rounds due to lack of aggression. I just think he can finish more times than not. Obviously, you would be right in saying that Rampage is very durable. I just think Rashad is way more dangerous than Jardine, Forrest, and even Wand at this point in time. It will be a great matchup down the road.
by Cannon Jacques on Mar 10, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I would think Machida has a better chance at beating Rampage in a 3 rounder. It gonna be hard for him not to get caught for 5 rounds.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 10, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Same with Shad.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 10, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to come out and discredit Rashad based on competition, because I’m heavily against that sort of rhetoric, but I’m also not prepared to call him a consistent finisher based on the following—
Sean Salmon got his one career head kick KO (Gonzaga, Hamill, etc).
Chuck got blasted, but Chuck has been blasted. Impressive nonetheless, obviously.
Forrest became 1D after he broke his hand and won the first two rounds.
Now, this is not to say that Rashad isn’t a finisher. But in the face of those circumstances, is a healthy Rampage anywhere near as easy to finish as those three men, under those scenarios? I would wager that he is, far and away, much harder to finish. My feeling is that Rashad wins a decision if he wins that fight— but I don’t have him winning that fight and I’m not prepared to label him a glorified finisher just yet.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 10, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
'Page won the 1st Round
I guess this is a bit of a nitpick b/c it is certainly the case that Lyoto’s poses particularly significant problems for Rampage because of stylistic matchups.
But 1 of the judges – Nelson Hamilton – gave round 1 to Rampage. You yourself said the other 2 judges had some explaining to do. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/7/6/565585/forrest-griffin-vs-rampage.
Also, the Bloodyelbow live blog coverage gave a close round 1 to Rampage. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/7/5/565428/ufc-86-live-results-forres
Rampage knocked Forrest down in the first round, and did more damage. In my opinion, though it was close, Rampage clearly wins the 1st round due to the knock-down, and greater damage. Admittedly, Forrest did set up his 2nd round domination in the first, but I still have ’Page winning round 1.
The fight with Griffin was incredibly close, and it was a narrow hole in Jackson’s game that lost him the fight, not mediocre standup. If Jackson fights the same fight, but checks leg kicks in round one, or heck, just checks them in round 2, I have him winning that fight. As it was, I have it as a narrow victory for Forrest, or as a very close draw.
Of course, your larger point is that Jackson’s standup style matches poorly against Machida – which is undoubtedly true.
One sided draws
Oops! fair enough. Good catch on that.
What I was trying to say was just that it was close no matter who you had winning.
You can have one sided draws
Blowouts with multiple point deductions
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 11, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
way too much for him
i agree.
rampage just shouldn’t take the fight. i think its way too much too. maybe he can fight forrest at 100 instead. he was asking for the rematch not too long ago. let lyoto fight rashad and get his shot, its only fair. they both have claims to the fight.
The Practical Solution From Multiple Perspectives
I am sure that I am missing something glaringly obvious, but it appears to me from both a practical / logistical perspective and from a financial / marketing perspective, the best approach would be to have GSP-Alves headline the May card and move Rampage-Rahsad to UFC 100 along with Mir -Brock.
From a practical/logistical standpoint, I would adopt all of your arguments regarding Jackson’s need and right to train properly for this fught. Moreover, GSP and Alves are both more rested that Rampage, and Alves has been waiting longer for his shot. Moving Rampage-Rashad to UFC 100 gives Ramapge two more months over which to span his training..
From a financial / marketing perspective, it likewise makes sense. GSP-Alves will certainly more than carry the day as the main event for the May card. In fact, with Hughes-Serra and Koschek-WIlson, it could be marketed as three meaningful welterwight showdows.
So the questionis, would UFC 100 take that big of a hit, if any, if the co-main events were Mir-Brock and Rampage-Evans, as opposed to Mir-Brock and GSP-Alves. I firmly believe that the former is the wiser choice, specifically because Brock is in the headline.
We can assume that Brock will once again bring over at least a portion of the pro wrestling constituent. One of the recurring arguments in opposition to MMA raised by the pro wrestling fanbase is the lack of “heat” or storylines in MMA matches. These are the people who will be tuning in to see Brock fight. With Rampage-Rashad, you have a fight with two good self-promoters. They have already begun the heat with the post fight staredown Saturday night.
This should be the co-headliner that those WWE fans hungry for storylines see at UFC 100.
As for the diehards, or even casual fans, I cannot see anyone that would have otherwise tuned into UFC 100 not tune in because Rampage-Evans is co-headlining and not GSP-Alves.
This all makes sense, but Meltzer reported Saturday night that GSP turned them down to fight this early.
by Michael Rome on Mar 10, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
1) Jackson needs to take care of his physical and mental health
2) Jackson needs to rest, train well, and peak at the right time to deliver a great fight
3) No excuse should be allowed to taint the outcome of this fight, which would be unfair to both fighters
For those 3 reasons, Jackson, his camp and the UFC need to make the right decision.
If Page wants to fight Rashad let him, if not then Machida can take his shot let’s please leave all the other things out of this.Jackson is a grown ass man he can make his own decisions about when he fights and who he fights, Dana presented him a great opportunity that is the only thing he owes Quinton nothing more.
wtf??
Rampage is probably going to agree to this fight, so it’s up to Dana to be responsible and say no.
I am sure Rampage and his camp can make the best decision for Rampage. Dana doesnt own him and doesnt need to baby sit him. If Dana wants him to fight, approach it professionally, not in the locker rooms or whilst Rampage is taking a shit. Call up him or his managers, put the offer out there, tell him to talk to his camp and await a response after they have discussed whether its a good move for him. Simple. Dana promotes fights, he doesnt manager fighter health and welfare.
Actually he does it all the time, told Chuck he couldn’t fight with the injury he had even though Chuck wanted to.
I’m all for adults making their own decisions, but that includes Dana White. He is an adult, and it is best for his employee and best for his company to make this decision. When your boss asks you to do something, there is a degree of pressure that makes it a lot less than a free choice. Given Rampage’s extremely questionable history with decision making, it’s not really stretching to assume White may have a role here.
by Michael Rome on Mar 10, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Should also say the “he’s an adult” argument is both true and meaningless, because the freedom of choice argument applies even more strongly to Dana White, who is the ultimate decider in this universe.
Imagine you have your dream job, and then one day you find out your wife cheated on you, so you lose your fucking mind and end up committing felonies and putting the company’s reputation at risk. You are valuable, but easily replaceable, and by all means the boss should fire you. Instead he rushes to post your bail, sets you up with an attorney, gets you counseling, sets up your whole life. Then, after you do him one favor, he comes again asking you to do something that is clearly against your own interest. Are you telling me this is really an optimal situation for arguing freedom of choice? At that point it is really up to the boss to make the call to back off, because you are certainly not going to turn him down.
by Michael Rome on Mar 10, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
My comments were more directed at the fact that you seem to suggest that it is Danas responsibility to ensure Rampage doesnt overtrain and injure himself. I dont see fighting 3 times in 21 weeks as an excessive nor dangerous amount by any stretch and dont see how the calibre of fighter necessarily makes a huge difference as to the impact of the fight, escpecially considering Wanderlei was out in 3mins. On top of that, he has 10 weeks now to prepare for Evans, thats plenty of time surely?! The risk of overtraining exists for any fight, whether there is 1 month to prepare or 3 months to prepare. Thats what his trainers are there for, to ensure he is prepared well….doesnt overdo or underdo it. They can fail at that at any time so unless you thinks its a good idea for Dana to train every fighter in the UFC and micromanage yet another aspect of the org, I dont see how it should be up to him to be responsible and override the decisions made by a fighter and a fighters preparers. Plus, a rampage focused on a fight is probably less likely to go on another ‘rampage’ and make headlines for the wrong reasons.
YOU'RE OFF ON THIS ONE DUDE
You’re missing the point here. I agree that it would be ridiculous for Rampage to fight again so soon. But, if Dana gives the shot to Machida in May, then we’re never going to be able to see Rampage/Evans for the title. That smack talk between Rampage and Evans at the end of the fight was legendary. The stage is already set for another primetime show with an intriging back story. First African American vs. African American for the light heavyweight title(that I know of) in the UFC, and Rampage just beat one of Rashad’s best friends, The $ for this PPV will be through the roof. If Machida gets the title shot in May, this fight will never happen (for the title at least). When Machida gets this belt, we’re going to see a run just like Fedor. Machida will hold that belt as long as he damn well pleases. People may disagree, but it’s fact. Machida is not beatable at 205. Simple solution, keep Rampage/Evans at UFC 100 (plenty of time for Rampage to regroup) and move Alves/St. Pierre to 98. I
This is the best solution, but GSP reportedly turned them down (according to Meltzer). Trust me this is what they wanted to do.
by Michael Rome on Mar 10, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
So
GSP turned it down? That sucks! Damnit offer him more money! I really don’t wanna see this fight if Rampage isn’t 100%
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 10, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
The problem is the UFC 100 factor
I think some of these guys – including GSP – WANT to be part of UFC 100. They know it’s going to be a spectacular show. They know that it’s going to attract huge attention and PPV buys.
Screw UFC 98. They don’t need a title to be on the line then. It wasn’t meant to be. Yes, I’m extremely biased, because I’ll be at UFC 100, and am already disappointed that 1. every title is not going to be on the line 2. Couture vs. Fedor is no longer a distant dream( heard someone radio dude mention that, lovesponge I think) 3. the first female fight (Cyborg vs Carano) is no longer a possibility. 4. I’m hearing no rumors about Faber vs. Torres. And off the subject, Dana, I know you read these things, bring back Big John and Ali Sonoma. I miss that ass, and the new girl does nothing for me. And for God’s sake, you control every aspect of these fighters lives already. Let them pick out their own music. What a 40 something white dude thinks is cool, and a 20 something like Tamdan is totally different. I think he’s got a better grasp on what’s hip than you do buddy. And also, if you guys ever sit next to somebody who boos at a live event, please slap them in the face. It’s very disrespectful, and just reflects their ignorance towards the sport. These guys put it on the line and deserve much respect.
not so much
but she looks like a cool, fun girl to hang out with.
I’m an ass man, so I like Ali, but Logan does it for me.
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2009 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
logan is the best out of the three.. but arianny is at about the same level too..
I didnt like the tanning-bed Ali at the bikini contest.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 10, 2009 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't kick any of them out of bed for eating crackers
..but Logan is also my favorite.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 10, 2009 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You guys have
HORRIBLE taste! :P
Logan looks plain jane. When she blows me a kiss through the tube I swat it away lol! Shes too skinny, has no chesticles, has no ass and she isn’t the “doesnt need makeup” kind of chic she thinks she is. Girls like Rachealle Leah and Gina Carano don’t need any makeup. Logan on the other hand is out of her league when sitting next to Edith and Arianny.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 10, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
edith? seriously? logan's hotter/prettier than edith..
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 10, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
No
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 10, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
:P
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 10, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh and have you forgotten?
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/2/20/765308/edith-nsfw
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 10, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I think one thing we can all agree on..
..is that Andree Dasanti is hotter than all of them.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
To each their own, the look on her face there turns me off.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Then trust me when I say..
..her face moves in real life.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 10, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m afraid if I find a video of her no work will get done in my office today.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 10, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
http://cdn.faniq.com/images/blog/bc51d09d4ebb6d7008250459f20f675a.jpg
http://cdn.chickipedia.com/www/images/2/24/Img_0135x_693.jpeg
http://brahsome.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/adree2.jpg
http://img.adamonline.sk/images/priloha/3900/3906/ad02.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee161/Raduriel/Adree%20Desanti/adree-desanti1.jpg
http://wwsmag.com/updates/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/20070724164806_photo_l.jpg
and finally…
http://img.adamonline.sk/images/priloha/3900/3906/ad06.jpg
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 10, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
FUCK YES!
Rec’d
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 10, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Due stop it lol. She’s gorgeous here.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 10, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Heavily Disagree
With the proposition that Lyoto should get the title shot. If need be, just delay Rampage-Rashad till UFC 100 as well. Make UFC 100 the blow out show it was meant to be. Make 98 a second-tier show.
Lyoto will probably beat Rashad for the title and then you’ll never have the black v black for the title angle again.
Although I don’t think Rampage should take the fight on short notice either.
They’d lose millions with this decision. You can’t properly hype more than 2-3 fights on a show, it all disappears with 4 main events. If they wanted to do this, you’d move this to 100 and Brock’s fight to 101. May is the memorial day show in Vegas, it will have a big title main event. The best outcome in my view is to try to convince GSP to fight on this show.
by Michael Rome on Mar 10, 2009 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd go for that
That makes sense actually. What about BJ – Florian for 98? When is that scheduled for?
That looks like August at 101. BJ said June was too soon, can’t imagine he would do May. The only other real option is GSP-Alves.
by Michael Rome on Mar 10, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions
But wait;
Didn’t BJ sneeze at June because of Germany? He could score bank on a Vegas card on Memorial weekend. Still unlikely, but maybe it is a disatant possibility.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 10, 2009 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions
That was my theory and people inside UFC think that too, but my guess is he also wanted some more time off. Who knows, I think they’ve committed at this point to having Rashad defend.
by Michael Rome on Mar 10, 2009 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions
So… Dana shouldn’t have offered? Or he should reneg on it now? I am confused.
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2009 2:32 AM EDT reply actions
Well, I think guaranteeing him first crack at the winner if he waits mitigates a lot of the concern you raise about abusing loyalty.
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2009 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
One more point I want to add in comments because it’s not directly on point: Rampage had to have someone help him put headphones on for Cofield’s interview because he hyperextended both elbows and was in pain.
Dana is playing poker...
Dana knows that Evans/Machida is not nearly the moneymaker that Evans/Jackson would be. So he’s playing the “if you don’t want it, i’ll give it to him” card.
No he’s not, he’s playing the “I’ve got a huge show coming up in 2 months that has no main event” card. They put this fight on sale advertising Brock/Mir as the headliner, you think someone who paid $700 for a ticket is gonna be happy with a main event of Hughes/Serra instead?
Of course he’s playing poker, and your both right. He’s short stacked with a mediocre hand. Now he has to put his chips all in and hopes Rampage doubles him up. Otherwise it’s going to be a bust.
He has to have a Championship fight to headline this card, but will he be able to somewhat appease Brock’s pro wrestling crowd with the charismatic Rampage and actually make money off the fight , or will he have to work with the ‘box office elusive’ Machida and hope he can break even?
Personally I’m hoping for Machida, but will be more than interested either way.
From the UG:
I am a big Rashad fan, but it’s pretty hypocritical having him criticize Rampage for not wanting to take the fight on 2.5 months notice, seeing that he didn’t want to fight Rampage only 2 months after he beat Forrest.
This is what I was going to say when I read the post. Rashad comes off completely classless yet again. He’s grown on me as a fighter, but outside the cage I still can’t stand him.
Kuwabara Kuwabara
by J. B. Maddox on Mar 10, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
So Jacksons hurt...
Now its really doubtful that he’ll headline 98. Lets say Rashad fights Machida and Rashad wins that. I think he has a better chance than Rampage anyway. Rashad is doing his post fight Rogan interview, have Rampage go in the cage to do Rampage vs. Rashad Trashtalk Staredown 2!!!. Thats the only thing I can think of. It really sucks that they hyped it up so much with this little staredown at the end of 96 and it might not even happen. :( God I hope Rashad beats Machida!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Sucks that Rampage is injured, but I don’t think he should have been fighting so soon anyway. Personally, I love Machida, but I’d rather see Rampage vs Rashad for the title first. After that smack talk last weekend, this is a fight I have to… no, need to see. Alas, it probably won’t happen since I think Machida will win.
That fight can still happen though yea? If Rashad wins it happens, if Rampage loses to Machida it can be a contender’s match, and if Rampage beats Machida Rashad probably just needs one for a title rematch. I feel like we will see it eventually.
by Michael Rome on Mar 10, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
BUT WE WANT IT NAO!!!!!
WHY AM I YELLING?
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 10, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Aha
This could also be a potential scenario:
Machida defeats Rashad
Chuck defeats Shogun
Machida defeats Rampage
Rampage fights Evans
Machida fights Chuck
End game is buku bucks.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 10, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Rampage will fight Evans at 98 because Dana will back up the brinks truck and PAY him. He HAS to book this fight at this point. Page knows this, he’s no dummy. He’s balking until Dana pays him big for this favor.
HOWEVER…Evans by KO. Yeah, I said it.
HOWEVER…Evans by KO. Yeah, I said it.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 10, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Normally I wouldn’t give Evans much of a shot at KO’ing Quinton either, but Jardine lasting 3 rounds hands Greg Jackson a huge advantage in gameplanning for Rashad.
Not saying that Rashad actually will get the KO, just that he has a decent shot at it ’cause of his camp basically having a training run gameplanning for Rampage.
Micheal Rome you hit the nail on the head with this one!!!
Basically you said it all!! No one wants to see a 100% Rashad vs 75% Rampage. Especially when Rampage shouldn’t have to right now. He already has had 2 intense training camps and Fights within 3 months of each other. All that training and being away from family. OHH lets not forget he won!!!
I love Rashad even since tuff, but its obvious he didn’t want any part of Rampage, until they sent their scout Jardine to find flaws or weakness in Rampage like they did in the Liddell & Forrest fights, so now Rashad wants to fight a overly trained tired mentally and physically Rampage.
When really the truth is they want no part of Machida at this point!!
But due to loyalty Rampage may fight cause he feel he is indebted to Dana white and the ufc for what they did for his jail time and career!!!
Great read/post Micheal rome!! You and jaydoggydog.
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