UFC 96 Thoughts
by Michael Rome on Mar 8, 2009 1:06 AM EST
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This was a thoroughly enjoyable show. A lot of fights were short and one-sided, but sometimes that makes a show really entertaining.
Gray Maynard got another ugly win. He had some nice body shots, and as soon as it was clear Miller couldn't get him down the outcome was inevitable. I still think Maynard has a long way to go though before he can hang with someone like BJ Penn.
The Hamill fight was a good reminder that MMA wrestling is not the same thing as amateur wrestling. I let myself get caught up in the hype for Munoz's wrestling without remembering that Hamill just has a much more well-rounded game. This KO was sickening too.
Matt Brown looked good, but man Yves Lavigne deserves to be fired for his performance in this fight. First he stops the fight, then gets bullied into restarting it, and then he refuses to stop a fight that should have been stopped three or four times. This was beyond terrible/
I'm still kind of in shock over Shane Carwin's win. The fight started just like I suspected, with Gonzaga landing a great shot and getting him down. The fact that Carwin was able to melt Gonzaga with a short right was incredible. Carwin is still very green, but he's obviously got insane power. To beat him guys will have to avoid getting hit at all.
The main event was a great fight. I thought the commentary bias was terribly pro-Jardine due to Rashad's presence, but I suppose it doesn't matter. It was interesting to see Jackson try to clinch up and go for a slam right away when swarming Jardine has always been the best strategy. He even admitted after the fight that he deviated from the plan. He fought Jardine's fight, but still ended up on top. I thought he won the first round too now that I've seen it with the sound off, those kicks weren't doing much damage and Jackson had the harder shots.
Jardine showed great heart surviving two knockdowns. He answered any questions about his chin tonight, and if Rampage beats Rashad I'd love to see a five round rematch. Jackson busting out two takedowns was surprising, but Jardine stood right up, something his teammates have told me he does all the time in practice.
I loved the trash talk, it's nice to have some lighthearted fun in the sport, and I found the whole thing extraordinarily entertaining. It was also interesting to finally see Rampage as a fan favorite among a heavily white UFC crowd. Dana White said today that Rampage and Rashad will get the next UFC: Primetime treatment. That is a huge fight.
The entertainment value out of this show provides a good glimpse into why the UFC does so well. Even when a card is weak, there's always a chance for breakout performances and exciting fights. Star power isn't everything, and this isn't the first time a weak looking card delivered a home run.
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Right on...
I thought the smack talk was um…odd in that it felt forced. But it gives great promotional material and was kind of exciting.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 8, 2009 1:10 AM EST reply actions
does 2 months seem to soon for rampage? an 8 week camp, he would have to go right back into training after tonights fight. i think thats an advantage for rashad.
Could be, but Rashad is doing training camps already, it’s not like it’s been time off. He has done three since his last fight.
i wonder how the odds will look..
Im picking evans for sure.. If he’s the underdog, im gonna bet the whole BE bank haha. :D
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 8, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Jackson showed some good wrestling tonight…Jardine was in deep on a takedown attempt and Jackson stuffed it. Of course, announcers basically ignored it. They focused on leg kicks that did no damage instead.
uhh, he kinda did hurt rampage's knee a bit..
and shh.. they’ll find out you <3 rampage.. ;)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 8, 2009 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
Of course leg kicks in the aggregate hurt. But I mean, these weren’t like the cutting leg kicks Forrest landed.
the judge's were slightly biased, but those kicks were still scoring points and hurting rampage..
page still doesnt check leg kicks.. and i kept on thinking that after the forrest fight the guy would learn..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 8, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
i meant commentators not judges..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 8, 2009 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
From talking with people in his camp, they’ve gone a different route with leg kicks. Before Rampage never did workouts to build up his legs, and a few Forrest kicks cut him up. He doesn’t want to give up his boxing base, he is instead building muscle in his legs to deal with it.
well its a dumb plan if you ask me..
it hurts, plus it scores points against him… but hey, what do i know?
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 8, 2009 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
Should add here Quinton was just on the radio.
Said the kicks didn’t hurt at all, and he was willing to let Jardine land cause it wasn’t doing anything to him.
Is that just influencing the judges in the next fight . . . don’t score the leg kicks (which I don’t block) because I say they don’t hurt me?
How often does someone use leg kicks effectively enough to win whole rounds, while they are being neutralized by getting punched hard in the face? The answer is not many.
I was more responding to the notion in which Rampage hinted in his comment that leg kicks shouldn’t count.
Wouldn’t every fighter like to pretend his weakness should not count against him.
No one’s saying that leg kicks shouldn’t count. But, as I stated in my gambling writeup, they’re being completely overstated in this fight. That continued with the commentary during the fight. How many times did we hear Joe and Mike say things like “Another leg kick from Jardine,” or “Rampge is STILL not checking the leg kicks”?
I hope the judges aren’t thinking this way because they aren’t properly valuing the leg kick.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
i think i will to if he’s the dog. i’m gonna go check out playground right now.
by bdw on Mar 8, 2009 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
Just to be picky, I would have liked to see a cool sub or two. That probably plays into why I was high on Gonzaga and Miller. It did turn out to be a really good card. I’m sure most that watched it were taken in by the KO’s and the back and forth main event.
you just described me to a tee. i wouldnt have minded seing a few slick subs though either.
by bdw on Mar 8, 2009 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
As awful as Yves was in the Sell/Brown fight, I don’t think he should be cast off. Everyone makes mistakes, as boneheaded as that one is.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Yeah
He usually does very, very well so I figure that it was probably just a severe but momentary lapse in judgment.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
Yves was awrful
He’s normally good, but that may have been one of the biggest botches for a ref in years. I wonder if all the talk about early stoppages had an effect. If Drago would have come back and somehow won, there would be a huge outcry over him stopping Brown from pounding on Drago when he stepped it to stop the fight give Drago a breather.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
what about Nelson - Riley?
who reffed that? apparently it was a total quickstop abortion with Riley, one of the most experienced veterans in the sport getting called out after one shot in 0:44
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
Some local guy apparently
Rick Fike. He should end up on the Ohio commission’s insta-ban list, along with that redneck ref from UFC Fights for The Troops who thought he was watching his buddies in a bar fight.
he did it twice. he should have stopped the vera/patt fight sooner. think this has anything to do with the kos/paulo contraversy?
its a conspiracy!
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 8, 2009 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
no conspiracy
but that was very wierd by yves, who is normally very solid.
by bdw on Mar 8, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
Ref’s could be reacting to the criticism that has been going around but they shouldn’t be. They get paid to know when to stop a fight better than the armchair quarterbacks rant about. Yves is nornally pretty good but that seemed horrible, still it will be for the athletic commission to judge whether he made the correct call or no. I rather see them err on the side of safety every time than see something like that again, quick stops may cause some controversy but late stops are dangerous.
just like Evans vs Salmon
catch those wrestlers leaning to their left and wham!
think i should do a judo chop twofer on Hamill/Munoz and Evans/Salmon and the high kick?
the alternative is Brandon Vera’s leg kick clinic.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Mar 8, 2009 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the head kick is a great entry to the judo chop series.
It’s a game-changing maneuver, self-contained with very few points to consider, so it’ll be easy to explain the components that lead up to it in great detail. Basically, you said it already: catch a wrestler leaning towards the power leg, and he’s going to get his head taken off.
Great topic. Leg kicks need a better matchup to use as a case study, imo. Vera did everything right, but his opponent did absolutely nothing in response. Griffin/Rampage would be better, simply because Rampage was essentially giving the leg away in exchange for a shot at Forrest’s chin. That would provide a little more material than Vera/Patt.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
+1 for a head kick KO judo chop
you could add Markham-Farber, another great one in recent memory
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
And
Johnson/Burns.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
the anthony johnson kick was good too.
especially coming from a guy who’s just learning how to kick..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 8, 2009 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
thanks for the input everyone
my future course is clear — headkicks it is.
due to fair use limitations I can probably only talk about two main fights in the post, but can expand in the comments.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
Very suprising night of fights for me anyway, gotta hand it to Maynard I thought Jim Miller was going to school but he was the one that took him to school instead. Carwin also surprised me I thought he was done for after Gabe put him down but he came back and showed he’s legit and powerfull. Overall while my favorites all lost it was still a good night of fights and now it’s time to get ready for UFC 97 which should be another great card.
Gabe never would’ve landed that takedown vs Lesnar.
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 8, 2009 5:28 AM EST up reply actions
I really thought that Miller's striking
would be more of a factor after the way he tooled Matt Wiman — someone whose striking I rated as better than Gray’s during the TUF season they were on.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
who would've thought maynard would keep a fight standing, and still win..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 8, 2009 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
The thing with Carwin…
This was the second time he got rocked. He needs to learn to not get hit… at least not get hit so flush.
After that he will be very scary because he showed good resilience and that is the hardest thing to learn .
A little bit of head movement, he’ll be insanely dangerous.
Seriously, he hits you, you’re done. Insane.
by Michaelthebox on Mar 8, 2009 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
i think brock can take him..
although maybe it would just turn out into, who lands the first big shot..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 8, 2009 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
If you call it “absorb a beating” then I doubt it can be learned.
If you call it “keep your wits about you and refuse to give up,” yeah, it can be learned.
by Michaelthebox on Mar 8, 2009 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
Ok, we are on the same page.
How many fighters have learned that throughout there career? They either show it in the first fight in which they are punished or they don’t have that tool. I can’t recall one fighter who has been able to improve on that area who wasn’t already a presumed natural at taking a beating and staying in a fight.
Resilience is rare attribute, very few guys are given that tag.
It can be learned, but like mmalogic said, its the hardest thing. Not surprising very few fighters would ever learn it if they didn’t already have it.
by Michaelthebox on Mar 8, 2009 3:05 AM EST up reply actions
I guess I am parsing words with logic here. He used the word “learn” were I think the proper word is probably “have”.
I agree with him that it can be learned.
by Michaelthebox on Mar 8, 2009 3:25 AM EST up reply actions
MEGA FAIL
4-6 in my picks tonight, including 1-4 on the undercard.
Could have gone .500 by picking Vera but I had to be a jerk. You can point and laugh now, weoweoweo.
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
its like betting on gonzaga to lose to neil wain.. he was fed a scrub.. maybe vera can go in a step up in competition and face boetsch! hahahaha. :D
ok ill stop making fun of you now cause i failed with my picks too haha. sure i got 6-4.. but i didnt win shit in the betting game.. 800 on miller, 100 on munoz, and 100 parlay miller jardine..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 8, 2009 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
the trash-talking at the end made my night.
after rashad busted out the big m-f-er, rampage cracked me up.
page’s eyes go wide “don’t say that word, rashad!”
He did absorb some big Liddell rights and did fine. I think he just got caught bad rushing in twice. He is a very good fighter.
People also..
tend to forget that sweat isn’t just a factor in grappling…it helps punches slide on your skin and take away the “full impact” he got caught early in fights twice by two guys with crazy power in their fists.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 8, 2009 1:50 AM EST up reply actions
Just watched the Matt Brown/Pete Sell fiasco. Laughed out loud several times while staring in horror.
Kind of overshadows the fact that Brown looked ridiculously good. Crisp, clean, fast. He could wind up being a WW stalwart, which I never would have expected given his record and his performance on TUF.
Ehhhhh. Lavigne is the best ref in the sport. He should be fired for one fight where he wasn’t dead-on?
i think mario yamasaki is the best..
he gives them chances to recover, but not to the point it already endangers the fighter.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 8, 2009 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
Best ref in the sport
Is Yuji Shimada.
Yves did his best Shimada impersonation tonight
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 8, 2009 3:01 AM EST up reply actions
Jardine's wacky style mocks MMA
I thought Jardine looked awful in his fight and Rampage looked bad by not being able to finish him. Did Jardine keep his hands up for more than 5 seconds at a time? He had zero hustle and got winded early and often. It was sad and seemed to psyche Jackson out. When Jackson flurried, Jardine looked like Randy Couture’s wife’s last opponent. I don’t want to see him in a main event ever again. I’d agree that Jardine showed heart, but it was like the resilience of a cockroach who won’t die – willing himself to continue by sheer ugliness. (end of highly subjective and unreasonable rant)
"It was also interesting to finally see Rampage as a fan favorite among a heavily white UFC crowd. "
When has Rampage not been a fan favorite or when has there not been a heavily white crowd?
I’m unaware of either situation ever existing.
Ok, maybe . . .
But you also named UFC two most popular fighters and the biggest name associated with Pride who had the most cross over appeal. I guess I remember Rampage’s UFC debut where he was given a good greeting . . . UFC gave him a great build up too.
Someone has a memory that doesn’t go back that far.
by Michaelthebox on Mar 8, 2009 3:00 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe that’s it. Jardine’s anti-athlete approach rubbed me the wrong way. I’m surprised Jackson didn’t make jokes about being afraid to get some ugly on him. I know this sounds malicious, but as a fight fan, I feel like Jardine brought the level of the competition down to his level (maybe the same as “fighting his fight”, but at the expense of the sport, imho).
Really? I commend Jardine for fighting the way he fights. It ain’t a weightlifting contest. Jardine treats fighting the same way a junkballer treats pitching. It ain’t just about throwing the ball 98 miles an hour.
by Michaelthebox on Mar 8, 2009 3:11 AM EST up reply actions
Jardine's unorthodox style is exactly why he has some of the wins he does
There will always be that “ugly” fighter that does things differently enough from the “right” way that it gives “orthodox” fighters fits because he isn’t conforming to what their training has taught them to expect out of opponents.
I know nobody wants to hear it...
because the whole Galvao-Page argument is so last week, but once again tonight Zuffa cut away from the aftermath of a “sickening” KO without making any further mention of the downed fighter during the program. Mark Munoz was unconscious for several minutes and eventually left in a neck brace.
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
Yeah.
If they’re attempting to protect the sport, so to speak, by not updating what look to be violent KO’s, I believe they’re taking it too far. It kind of makes it look like Zuffa is hiding something. In the end, glossing over such events won’t be effective with the prevalence of various forms of digital media and the simple fact that a lot of people are watching and reporting in some form or the other. Like the NFL and other sports, violence is a huge part of the sport. Period. My opinion is that we don’t need to see the fighter in question laying on the mat for an extended period of time. I believe the classiest approach would be to move away, and update the fighter’s condition (and show him walking away if possible) as soon as doctors have been able to assess the individual properly.
by Cannon Jacques on Mar 8, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
eh..
he WALKED OUT in the neck brace. My personal thing…if they don’t say anything, the guy is fine. That’s how I’ve always viewed these things. No news = good news
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 8, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
I still believe that not mentioning it after the guy has been examined only adds to confusion and serves as fuel for conspiracy theorists who see Zuffa as a force hell bent on world domination.
by Cannon Jacques on Mar 8, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
In this instance
Rogan did mention that he was still down, regardless, Goldie is no Dr either. The idea of them offering their medical opinions in a situation like that is a bad idea. Even a Dr can’t comment on what may or may not be wrong with someone in the moments immediately following trauma. I don’t think there’s an ideal way to handle this, but I’m a little uncomfortable with Zuffa always taking a beating about this.
by jebushchrist on Mar 8, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
If you were a fighter would you want the type of coverage of injuries that you do as a blogger? I sure would want the current policy myself.
The cutting away from the scene itself doesn’t bother me; obviously the fighter deserves his privacy and no one needs to see him struggling with consciousness or walking out in a neck brace. But I’d be far more okay with either Rogan or Goldberg saying “Mark Munoz is okay, folks, he was down for a few minutes but he came to and left on his own power,” than them just repeatedly showing the head kick and never mentioning me again. Or maybe I wouldn’t. Tough to say.
But to me, it comes down to what Cannon says above and others have argued before – if this is a sport, like the NFL, and we want people to take it seriously as a sport, we as fans as well as all promoters have gotta treating it like a true sport. I understand exactly where Zuffa is coming from, and that MMA is not directly comparable to the NFL or NHL… but if they showed someone knocked down and motionless on the turf/ice, then went to a commercial and never mentioned it again, fans and the media would be confused if not incensed.
Whew. Look at me getting all preachy and self-righteous with my 3 hours of sleep. Honestly, I’m just glad Munoz is okay, and it didn’t ruin my night or stop me from enjoying the rest of the fights. But maybe the next time someone isn’t okay and the only way we know is because somebody from an MMA news site bought a ticket (no credentials for you!) and is texting in results from their Blackberry. When you’re controlling which outlets are and aren’t allowed to cover your company (and in turn, basically which outlets cover our sport at all), you’re putting more culpability on yourself w/r/t disseminating this kind of information.
/rant
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
I think the difference...
is that getting kicked in the head and knocked unconscious is an accepted part of the sport in boxing or MMA. It is not so much in the NFL or NHL so when they have someone KO’ed and motionless on the ground it’s a much more “this isn’t supposed to happen!” situation.
Again, I’d be fine with them saying that a guy is okay, but I think in our sport that the truth is no news is good news.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 8, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Drilling a receiver coming across the middle (as long as you don’t break one of the arbitrary and subjective rules in terms of launching or leading with the helmet) has been an accepted action in football for as long as I’m aware. Football fans understand that violence is a huge part of the game even though the goal isn’t to knock out your competitors like in combat sports. I think the analogy is very much apt unless the UFC is only looking to convert fans from other combat sports and aren’t after people that aren’t necessarily boxing or kickboxing fans.
by Cannon Jacques on Mar 8, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
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