No love for The Carpenter.
by Captain America on Mar 5, 2009 12:11 PM EST
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PrintWhen Clay Guida stepped into the octagon with Nate Diaz at UFC 94, he did so with much fan fare, being known as one of the most energetic and entertaining fighters in the UFC. Three uninspired rounds later, Guida had done just enough to sneak by with a split decision. It was far from impressive, but a win nonetheless. The post fight reaction of his "fans" was very surprising though.
Since his debut at UFC 64, Clay Guida has been one of the most high energy, never say die fighters you could find on the roster. His unrelenting style and constant motor made him a fan favorite from the start. After winning his debut, he lost two straight controversial decisions to Din Thomas, and Tyson Griffin. Despite this Guida was known as an incredibly fun fighter to watch. Though he only went 1-1 in his next two fights, he managed to win fight of the night in three of his first five fights. It was after a heart breaking loss to Roger Huerta, in which he was winning convincingly but was caught in the third round, that he realized that just being an entertaining fighter was not going to win him fights in the UFC. Despite winning three straight fights since then, and moving up the lightweight ladder, Guida has caught alot of heat from mma fans after his less than stellar victory over Diaz at UFC 94. I personally believe that all the hate for Guida is completely out of line. Anyone who has watched mma for longer than a year, and still wants to say that Guida likes to hug his way to victories, has clearly never payed attention to mma. It is the uneducated fans who say Guida is boring, and are the same fans who make mma come across as a blood sport. Though not always entertaining, ground game is a part of mma. You may not enjoy it, but its the reason why fighters like Houston Alexander dont thrive. I know i am starting to ramble, but I have been watching mma for over 6 years now, and it bothers me that if you fight a tactical fight in mma, you are crucified for it. Now I will admit that the Diaz fight was less than entertaining. It doenst take away from the fact that every other fight Guida has had in the octagon indeed was entertaining. For those fans who dont have short term memory, I think you will all be in for a treat when Guida fights Diego Sanchez at the Ultimate Fighter 9 finale. I think the winner of this fight shoots right up near the top of the division, and i fully expect to see the old Clay Guida in this fight. (Before you unload on me, I know this was really long. Sorry)
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I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, and Guida vs Sanchez, in my opinion, is a win win for Clay. He gets a shot at a top contender in Diego and if he loses, what ground has he really given up? He has been the gatekeeper for a while anyway, and a loss to Diego would not set him that far back. Wish you would have used more than 1 paragraph there though lol. Big Blocks of Text are scary.
I like Guida
Always have. His fight vs Griffin still ranks as one of my favorites.
The people who call him boring or a lay-n-prayer are the same people who boo if a punch hasn’t been thrown in 10 seconds.
Uh.
I have nothing against Guida as a person. I think he’s a “lay and pray” fighter because that’s what he’s done most recently – he throws some sloppy punches until he realizes he sucks at that, at which point he clinches up and attempts the take down. Half the time he can’t accomplish that so he spends like 3 minutes per round on average literally not doing anything except clinch and squeeze. And when he does get the take down he either just camps in the guy’s guard. Maybe he’ll get to half. Maybe. When’s the last time he had full mount? Not recently. Why? Because he has abandoned what I believe to be a primary credential for winning fights, and that is the EFFORT to FINISH. Not by decision but by KO or submission. Obviously he has some victories in that regard but how many of them were against credible opponents? He’s like Arona except he literally lacks the ability to finish guys from the top position unless they are idiotic enough to stick an arm up in the air or turn over and let him choke them out. Watch his submission victories.
And I resent the fact that you generalize about people who dislike him in that regard. I’m probably the biggest Machida fan you will find. And I’m not British, so no, I don’t boo when a punch hasn’t been thrown for 10 seconds.
Anyways, Guida might win this fight but I guarantee he’ll get clowned on the feet and end up trying to clinch his way to a decision. Problem is, I don’t think Diego is going to gas and Guida totally will. Diego will take this via easy decision.
by KneeToTheFace on Mar 5, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Thank You
I swear the elitist attitude of so many MMA “fans/experts” is ridiculous. Do not tell me that I don’t appreciate the sport because I don’t like Clay’s last few performances… I watch lots of MMA, have taken the time to gradually learn the sport, and appreciate all types of fighters from the dominant champs, to the journeyman; the collegiate wrestlers to the judo players, and BJJ Aces… I like incorporating many disciplines into a sport, and love to see offensive and defensive battles…. You cannot classify a person by one differing opinion…
I don’t like fighters who have no ability to finish a fight
by dbcb on Mar 5, 2009 12:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
He has 12 submission victories and 5 tkos in his career by the way, but there is a reason these men are profesionals, it shouldnt be easy to finish them
That’s true (and good post) but bear in mind that there is a very distinct difference in the way a match plays out between those who are winning and can’t finish, and those who don’t try. Guida is the latter (lately) – he doesn’t try to finish. It’s not like he goes for submissions and the person escapes. It’s not like he drops people with big punches and then can’t put them away. He doesn’t do either of those things either because he CAN’T or because he’s playing it safe. Either way, I don’t think he should be victorious for holding on to a guy and throwing punches without even looking at his opponent. He’s got a sloppy ground game and sloppy stand-up. All he can do is wrestle and that just doesn’t allow him to be as dominant as his record might suggest.
Styles make fights, and Guida did exactly what he needed to win. Diaz did everything he could to win. It’s just that when you have a guy like Nate who has really good Jiu Jitsu + Decent standup, and put him against Guida, who has great wrestling, top control, sub defense, and also has servicable striking, it can be a bit of a stalemate.
At any rate, Clay is a solid fighter, and is generally pretty exciting to watch. He’s probably focusing more on winning now, judging from his last 2 fights.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
Wasn't Kalib Starnes doing something similar vs Nate Quarry?
Admittedly, he wasn’t ‘controlling’ Quarry, but he too was doing everything he could to not get hit and ride it out through three without trying for a finish.
Guida shouldn’t be rewarded for playing keep away.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
That’s a serious stretch.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
They landed the same number of punches.
And exposed themselves to the same number too.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
Guida
I wonder how “exciting” Guida would be with a Clean shaved head? Fights v. Danzig & Diaz were very, very boring fights. He holds down and lays on his opponent, throws a punch every 10-15 seconds (doesn’t land any), and repeats for 15 minutes.
Fuck the Guida hate. How many people are just pissed about the guy costing them money? I’ll bet him again against Sanchez.
And you'll lose.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
Guy has one fight that was a show stopper and suddenly he’s the most boring fighter in the world.
MMA fans suck.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
He’s not the most boring in the world, but you have to remember that a year or two ago people were considering him the most exciting fighter in the sport. Going from that to laying an egg twice in a row against two guys who haven’t had boring fights in the UFC is a good way to foster resentment.
I’d hardly describe his fights with either Danzig or Diaz “laying an egg.” I can understand why some folks might not have particularly cared for the Diaz fight, but hating on the Danzig fight is beyond my comprehension at this point.
I say “at this point” because I haven’t seen the fight in some time.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
To refresh your memory: there were takedowns.
by George Lucas on Mar 5, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Guida without long hair wouldn’t be considered high energy. He’s a blanket. I honestly think he’s my least favorite fighter in combat sports history, so my opinion is very bias (not that my opinion means anything anyways)…I don’t know what it is because Jake O’Brien pisses me off also, but he’s nowhere near my least favorite though I don’t like him either…
I would rather see him drop down and go to the wec. I understand that he’s just trying to get the “W”, but the dude’s gonna lose whatever fans he has if he keeps fighting the way he is.
What?? The only people that hate him are the “elitist” hardcores. Pretty sure he is pretty damn popular to the normal fans out there.
Hate?
What does being a fan or not have to do with HATE? I’m not a fan of Guida, but do i hate him? no. I don’t see what you’re trying to say here..
I hate him.
If I’m honest.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
;-)
He needs a haircut.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
The only people pissed about his performance against Diaz are somehow elitist hardcore fans? Really? That seems pretty harsh.
In the Diaz fight Guida did exactly one thing — he got a slightly controlling position and then just held on, for 15 minutes. He attempted absolutely no takedowns, no submissions, no real striking. It was basically a display of the bearhug for the entire fight and he won a decision because Diaz couldnt’ figure out how to do anything about it.
I’ll acknowledge that Guida was entertaining early in his career. And I understand that sometimes the risk of simply being entertaining is that you take a risk and get caught and it’s better to win than to lose in exciting fashion. But there’s a difference between simply having a good strategy and executing it and what he did in the Diaz fight. And I dont’ think it makes me an elitist to say that he deserves some crap for his performance in that fight.
I was disappointed in his performance against Danzig, too. To me it was very similar except that there were actually some takedowns by both parties. But if Guida got a takedown, he then instituted the bearhug strategy on the ground instead of standing like he did against Diaz. He didn’t really try for any meaningful submissions or effective strikes in that fight either.
I’ve watched mma for a very long time. And I don’t think it’s elitist or anti-mma to look at Guida’s last two performances and be disappointed that his “strategy” seems to have involved absolutely no attempt to do anything of substance. People dislike Machida for being “elusive” but Machida tries to finish fights when given a controlling position — Guida seems to have stopped doing that at all.
Finally, I think some of the frustration with Guida has to stem from the fact that he’s shown he has the skills to actually do far more than be a bearhugger. There should be a much better balance between reckless all out no holds barred crazy Guida from early on and no risk no attempt to accomplish anything meaningful beyond the bearhug Guida from his last couple of fights. Asking for something in between isn’t that out of line.
Clay Guida deserves the “hate” he is recieving because he did not perform very well. My only beef with Guida is that he did not try to improve position. He took down both Diaz and Danzig at will in those fights however, after the takedowns he did not try to improve position or attempt any submission attempt. Clay Guida striking is lacking behind the other lightweight fighters. For Clay Guida to a champion calibur fighter he needs to improve his wrestling and his striking. If he does that then, he can make a run at the title.
"I was not impressed by your performance"
I mostly fault him for not being able to do anything with the position. Part of that is bad matchmaking. If you put Guida in with a guy he can hold down, but has no hope of stopping via strikes or submission that’s what you’re gonna get. That’s why the Guida/Sanchez fight should be entertaining. There’s little chance Guida can hold Sanchez down for 15 minutes.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
True, but I see many Guida takedowns in this fight.
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 5, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
You can fault him for...
…having the back of a guy’s neck right in front of his face, hooks in, hands free, and not going for a rear naked.
Seriously.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
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