Submitting Anderson Silva Won't Be Easy
by Michael Rome on Mar 31, 2009 2:18 PM EDT
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In order to train for his next fight with Leites, and probably moreso to get ready for his upcoming fight with Demian Maia, Anderson Silva brought in the big guns:
For the fight against Thales Leites, in UFC 97, the champion called what’s best in terms of ground fight: the Jiu-Jitsu world champions Ronaldo "Jacaré" Souza and André Galvão. And for Jacaré, who'll be back at Dream 9 (check here), Anderson is with the ground game ready for the bout.
"Anderson is training well and is strong in all MMA fundaments. Anderson is a phenomenon standing, but if anyone thinks that will take Anderson down and submit, is completely wrong. He’s a talent on the ground, has black belt level", says Jacaré, betting on his friend’s Jiu-Jitsu. "Anderson is intelligent and good on MMA, he can surprise any opponent. But, for this fight, I think he will make a game that he is better."
Maybe it's because we haven't seen him fight in 6 months, but a lot of people have forgotten that Anderson Silva is a legitimate black belt in jiu-jitsu. Thales Leites may be better on the ground, but even that isn't a sure thing. It'll likely be a very close match on the ground, whereas it will be completely one-sided standing.
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He didn’t sub Lutter so much as he elbowed him to death and made him tap.
Lutter should have subbed him in that fight. It def showed me that a legit grappler will give Silva trouble at some point in the UFC. I think Maia is that guy.
There was alot more to those elbows than meets the eye too.
Not only was Lutter in a triangle he couldn’t get out of, but Silva positioned himself to be able to land those elbow’s unopposed.
If you get to see it again, watch what Silva does with Lutter’s right arm in the triangle to open up the elbow strikes. Beautiful JJ.
I think Lutter himself said that he tapped due to the triangle as opposed to the strikes.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 31, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
A legit grappler like Dan Henderson who got subbed too, or Nate Marquardt who got sweeped and then GnPed out. He had two busted knees before the Lutter fight and hand double knee surgery right after. I think that had a little to do with Lutter’s success
by EazyEismydad on Mar 31, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Silva didn’t even fight takedowns in that fight.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
First of all, many fighters have some sort of injury going on at any given time. Second, was it his bad knees that allowed Lutter to mount so easily?
Has Maia officially gotten the next shot?
Even after Okami was given the promise of getting the Silva/Leites winner?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 31, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions
According to CagePotato a source close to Maia says he expects to be offered the next shot in August. The article never mentions anything from a Zuffa source, although one would expect Maia’s camp would have heard something from the UFC to make such a statement.
So the short answer to your question is no, Maia does not officially have the next title shot.
A power grappler is the type of fighter that will defeat Silva, and that’s if they can manage to not get punched out. I think this is a huge reason why he continually says Paulo Filho is unbelievable.
Demian Maia could potentially be a threat as he’s a quick transitioning jiu-jitsu artist who looks for offensive positions rather than defense. But even that’s a stretch in my mind.
There really isn’t anyone out there like Filho with the exception of possibly Rousimar Palhares. He’s very strong, stacked like Filho in the upper body, and his submission game relies on offense and transitions. Anderson may be tall and strong, but extending an arm or leg with that kind of length on you distributes his strength further than a smaller fighter. Palhares will have an easier time cracking an arm on Silva than he would on someone else, but getting him to the floor is the massive problem.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 31, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yep, the same thing that makes the power grapplers more likely to be able to tap silva on the ground is the same thing that makes it very unlikely that they can get him there.
A guy like Palhares with his short arms and lack of reach on his strikes is going to get tee’d off on while attempting to close the distance. Silva is so accurate with his strikes and has that deceptive speed that guys with a lack of reach will have to just accept that they are going to get hit hard and often in exchange for the chance at a take down.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
You’re definitely right in the discussion regarding reach advantage. One thing I like about Palhares though is that he has very quick shots that are 100% committed. I don’t think he’d defeat Silva, but if he ever got to that level, I think he’d be a problem if he could overpower him on the floor. I doubt it’ll ever happen though.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 31, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you mean by power grappler, exactly?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Power grapplers are generally high level jiu-jitsu guys with pure strength as one of their key attributes in winning fights. The perfect example would be Paulo Filho, although the perfect specimen to the term wouldn’t be fighting within a weight class he could hardly cut to and have the most atrocious standup known to man.
Physically, Filho can snap a limb at any given moment if he can get the grasp. He’s overpowering to nearly everyone in that aspect, and that’s mainly the reason why he is such a tough opponent to anyone on the floor. He also has phenomenal wrist control, but many fans would consider this an attribute that’s close to his strength alone.
There are quite a few grapplers within the sport that have unbelievable technical prowess when it comes to the jiu-jitsu game, and while many fighters such as Royce Gracie would say that jiu-jitsu is technique over power… what happens when technique is added with power on the floor?
That’s essentially my point. Strength with the knowledge and technical background of jiu-jitsu can be formidable. Some of the best fighters in the world within their respective divisions possess these qualities. But… there aren’t many guys who can be that type of fighter for the mere fact that strength attained would require some bulking up, and then cutting weight to make their respective weight class. That’s the problem Paulo Filho has had in the past.
Andre Galvao could be considered a power grappler. His strength coupled with how offensive he is with his jiu-jitsu can be effective, Christiano Marcello could be one as well, Demian Maia has the chops as an offensive jiu-jitsu artist and he has very deceptive strength, Rousimar Palhares as mentioned previously by me.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 31, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’d suggest Tibau in the LW division, contrasted with guys like Florian or Lauzon, who are much more finesse types (if the comparison helps for anyone). But excellent definition and distinction.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Yeah...
Tibau is a great example. The guy is a beast and uses that size and strength in his JJ.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 31, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Or imagine a Thiago Alves sized guy with limb breaking jiu-jitsu and quick transitions. If they have any type of wrestling training that was effective enough to get takedowns, it’s hard to say they wouldn’t be dominating.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 31, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree
you know who i would to see fight AS ricardo arona he would beat AS, but too bad i don’t arona fighting anymore. frank shamrock would have given him a run for “money” when he was in his “prime”.
by artoriusvictormaximus on Mar 31, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I really think everyone looking for the silver bullet with Silva is missing the point. It’s going to take a fighter that possesses the skill to beat him on the ground, but also has enough skill to make Silva worry standing. As long as he’s fighting one trick ponies it isn’t going to happen.
The problem with Henderson is he’s not good at doing damage once he gets on top of guys, so Silva was just able to ride it out. St. Pierre is a much bigger threat than anyone at 85 currently, just because of the immense damage he does from guard, and the fact that he can easily get Silva down.
by Michael Rome on Mar 31, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I disagree slightly. One trick ponies, while for the most part will lose, have a chance against Silva in some instances. I think on the ground, there is a solid chance of something happening to Silva if he runs into a power grappler or a very solid, quick transitioning grappler. Length is your friend when you’ve maintained guard, but it’s not exactly good to be long when someone has you in side control or has a hold of your foot. I think that’s an area that somebody could capitalize.
But, that’s my “slightly” part. Obviously, they’d have to avoid being sluggged to death by Silva in the standup.
I agree with your assessment of Henderson, and that’s always been my belief as well. St. Pierre does stand the best chance in my opinion as well in terms of someone coming from under him. I’d be interested to hear logic on anyone at 205 pounds giving Anderson huge problems.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 31, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta disagree
I really don’t like the BJJ argument with Silva. Just because you don’t see a guy bowl in a league doesn’t mean he can’t roll high 200’s (and I don’t bowl, so go figure on that analogy). I think Silva gets totally unqualified criticism of his BJJ because he hasn’t had to use it often. Most people will indicate the Lutter fight as a sign of danger, but Anderson Silva is a renaissance man. You’re telling me he didn’t learn from his mistakes in that fight and that he’s not constantly improving? I know the guy loves Big Macs, but it doesn’t mean he’s sitting around getting fat in Curitiba..
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 31, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the issue is more along the lines of the idea that hes clearly top of the world in striking and at this point there is very little evidence to show that hes one of the best bjj guys in the world (he very well might be and god help everyone who gets in the cage with him if thats the case).
So from a prediction standpoint its much better to bet on the semi-unknown BJJ than to bet against his world class striking.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Silva definitely learns from his mistakes. But what I think Leland was referring to was a worldclass grappler. Not that Silva is a slouch or anything, but there just seems to be grappling, and then there’s grappling, if you know what I mean. Someone like Maia who is just on another level when it comes to grappling.
The aim of my comment wasn’t to uproot Silva’s credentials. While he’s a legit black belt, a lot of legit black belts can succumb to overall power and high level jiu-jitsu as opposed to straight high level jiu-jitsu. Also, the mix of quick transitions coupled with offensive jiu-jitsu and power can be quite a formidable combination.
I think there is an increased chance of Silva being defeated under those circumstances. Could he win still in an quick manner? Yes.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 31, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I Still think...
You are giving GSP too much credit in regards to how much of a threat he may really be… I think the guy to beat Silva is in a class above him, not below him (although I;m not even sure who that would be either). I just can’t see GSP taking Silva down, and employing ground and pound. Not that it isn’t int he realm of possibilities but it seems too cut and dry… especially since I also think GSP gets beaten up on the feet pretty handily against Silva,
You're onto something about GSP's GnP.
Hendo showed that Silva could be taken down and held down by a good wrestler, but as you said, he doesn’t really do much damage from the top. A guy like GSP, who could hang with Silva long enough to get the takedown has a much better shot, simply because he can hold him down and GnP the shit out of him. GSP also has enough BJJ training not to get subbed in Silva’s guard. I honestly think that if GSP can get Silva down, he could win. He just has to get a shot decent enough to do so, while at the same time avoiding Silva’s reach and pin-point acuracy.
The first round of that fight will basically determine the whole thing, which is so fascinating. I hope we get to see it.
by Michael Rome on Mar 31, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right, the first round is key...
I think if GSP can get Silva down early in the first, and just GnP him, he’ll have a great chance to win, even if Silva survives till the second, because by then if GSP did enough damage from guard, Silva’s striking will be less effective. I think if GSP pulls off his game plan in the first round, he’ll win.
negative.
who’s to say that gsp would survive a barrage of strikes silva, c’mon now silva decimated rich franklin twice a former perrinieal champ. gsp first has to get used to that wait class, i aint he wont challenge silva he will, i’m wondering how he would take a strike from someone at 185 before he would fight silva who can strike very hard, i can’t remember the last time gsp got struck hard.
by artoriusvictormaximus on Mar 31, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
ya, your right
But GSP is also better wresteler then Rich and could take Anderson down easyer than most other middle-weights. IMO GSP will take the fight to the ground faster then Silva can start inflecting some damage.
That’s what I’m betting on. The fact that GSP can get Silva down before taking too many hits. Of course if Silva hits GSP too many times GSP will go down. Heck, it is possible Silva could get him with just one punch, but I think GSP is a little more resiliant than that.
Honestly, if GSP can maintain side control and use his strength to keep Silva down, I don’t see what ANYBODY within the 185/170 divisions can do to stop him. His side control is overpowering.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 31, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that GSP isn’t a great wrestler but Hendo is one of the best MMA wrestlers going and (I could be wrong here) has a pretty solid strength advantage over GSP.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Hendo is a great wrestler, but GSP is almost certainly the best functional wrestler in MMA today. Hendo doesn’t have anything like GSP’s speed or explosiveness, in fact he’s pretty plodding.
by Michaelthebox on Mar 31, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You have to wonder, however
if there was/is a correlation between Hendo’s lack of offense once things were on the ground and his ability to avoid Silva’s sub game.
Hendo did nothing while on top, but he also gave Silva nothing to go after. Personally, I call that a wash in terms of earning points to win a round, let alone progressing toward winning a fight.
I think Silva and GSP would be a great fight, but with a significant size advantage I would still give the nod to Anderson.
But this is a regular thing for Hendo. Did nothing on top against Rampage (no sub threat) and nothing on top against Franklin (ditto, to a lesser degree).
by Michael Rome on Mar 31, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
The point was the connection
between Hendo’s lack of activity on top and the lack of submission from below.
he landed some decent shots on Franklin
the first time he got him down.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
I completely agree about GSP. I think that he’s the biggest challenge for Silva at present.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 31, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
you are right.
gsp definetly could “challenge” silva, but in the end i think silva would prevail cause gsp would not know how to handle those “laser-sharp-hard” strikes from silva. i still think dan henderson can beat him in a rematch. silva will eventually lose to someone who we don’t know, no one stay on top forever no one.
by artoriusvictormaximus on Mar 31, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Anderson’s striking is some of if not the best in MMA, but i believe that GSP will try to take it to the ground before Anderson can use his stand-up.
Also GSP looks better with every fight and could get out of the way of those heat seeking missels we call Anderson’s hands. Then agein GSP could get KO’d.
I also agree that Dan would do better then most other middle weights in a rematch with Anderson. He is still the only person that I can think of that took a round from the Spider in the UFC.
He has to get within range for that takedown first
& with Silva his power is all strikes so getting in before he can use his standup is a lot easier than it sounds.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Your right
But I have never seen someone so fast and strong as GSP when it comes to take downs.
But then again, to get close to Anderson you will have to take some damage, and every strike Anderson throws can be the last.
Right,
don’t get me wrong, I love GSP & he is a phenom & appears to only be getting better with each fight. It just seems that many on this post are severely underestimating Silva on the ground & automatically assume that not only will he not be able to hurt GSP on the feet when he comes in for the takedown, but when it hits the mat he has no chance. Until someone actually does this to Silva, I have a hard time saying this will happen. This just seems very strange to me given what Silva has done to everyone he has faced in the UFC.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I very much agree
I think that GSP can take Anderson down, but Anderson has very good bjj and is not very easy to keep down. But GSP is the only person i can think of that has at least a chance of keeping Anderson down.
I do agree with you that Anderson’s ground game is really underated and that he is really the only person in the UFC to dominate everyone he has fought with such ease and skill in the stand up and the ground. I also believe that Anderson would be the toughest challange on the ground for GSP.
Right, this matchup intrigues me a great deal.
I think this could be a great match because both fighters offer so much in the way of dangerous positions to the other fighter. I just have a hard time giving GSP the edge when he would be coming up to meet Silva in weight & given that lately he seems to only want to take the fight to the mat & not engage much at all on the feet, that would worry me for him against Silva. Good discussion MMA #1.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Thank you dnevil001
I also agree with you that it would be foolish to give the edge to GSP if they ever fought.
is it safe to say that quotes translated from portuguese are loosely translated?
i can never understand what they are actually saying, for some reason. this is mma, we need a ‘big john mccarthy’ of translaters.
I volunteer to be the official BE portuguese translator =P
Kuwabara Kuwabara
by J. B. Maddox on Mar 31, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
One move ahead of Anderson
Whoever beats him will simply be one move ahead of Anderson which means two or three moves ahead of the action.
I don’t believe it’s going to be a top PFP fighter who does it either, just someone proficcient enough to see an opening in real time and execute before Anderson realizes he’s in trouble.
I hate typing
But i want to address a few things here. In his last fight Anderson showed his biggest enemy in mma may be himself and his lack of interest. A fighter like Leites who excels in one area can catch a bored and unmotivated Anderson SIlva. Will it happen? It shouldn’t but he has demonstrated to me that he is definitely vulnerable to it. His biggest weakness in mma might not be his BJJ or wrestling as most suspect, but his mental game. Only time will tell I guess.
And as far as GSP standing a chance against Silva, one statement rules all arguments in my humble opinion. Size is the great equalizer. GSP is just to small to give Anderson a ton of trouble at 185lbs. And ditto goes for anyone who predicts that a few guys at 205 would stand a chance against him. I think at 185lbs there might not be a more indestructable fighter in the world than Anderson Silva. But at 205lbs I think he is more than capable of looking human and losing. Bigger stronger guys with stronger chins and more power than he is used to handling will eventually be his downfall. I think he should stay at 185lbs and go down as the greatest ever. Same for GSP.
by Nick Travaglini on Mar 31, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions
Size isn’t an equalizer always, it depends on the styles. In a fight between two wrestlers, size is a great equalizer. GSP regularly takes Rashad Evans down at will in practice, and even Travis Lutter got Anderson Silva down. Size isn’t going to be St. Pierre’s obstacle, the obstacle will be getting knocked out on his way in.
by Michael Rome on Mar 31, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Alves should be an interesting size test for GSP. He’s not a lot smaller than Anderson, only by a few pounds, and has much better takedown defense than Anderson. His striking is nowhere near as good, but it’s a good intermediate test.
by Michael Rome on Mar 31, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Size is relative
Alves isn’t a lot lighter than Anderson, but he is a lot shorter. Silva’s reach is 77.5 inches, whereas Alves is 70 inches. GSP has a 76 inch reach, so the transition from Alves to Anderson has him losing his striking advantage. I doubt that GSP would try to trade with someone who’s more skilled [b]and[/b] has reach on him. He might with Alves, though.
It was more of a general opinion, but if you are comparing styles, GSP lieks to control from the top and work on ground and pound while passing guard. Silva’s length will make guard passing almost impossible and Silva has shown some rudamentary ability with the rubber guard. I think he can nullify GSP’s GnP to an extent. GSP may be able to grind out a controling decision, but the start of each round will be the roll of the dice for him.
by Nick Travaglini on Mar 31, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
BJ Penn very likely has a better rubber guard and it did little to contain GSP’s GnP. Silva’s length could help him make up for his relative technical deficiency, but I don’t think enough to overcome GSP.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 31, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
As bad as GSP is & as much as he destroyed Penn,
how exactly does this correlate to him being able to defeat Silva? I agree that I would love to see them fight, but wonder why & how you see him coming up in weight to take Silva?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Number of reasons:
1) He doesn’t give up much reach to Silva, unlike most of Silva’s opponents.
2) He is a better functional MMA wrestler than anyone Silva has fought. He will quite easily take Anderson Silva down, he can outwrestle Rashad Evans.
3) Unlike others that got Anderson down and got stuck in his guard, that is exactly where you don’t want GSP to be. He has a brutal top game from guard, and basically knocked BJ Penn out from that position. Penn himself admits he was better off with GSP in side mount because he did so much damage from guard.
I don’t think he can just hold on to survive the round on the ground against St. Pierre. I think he would be badly hurt on bottom, and he’d have to catch St. Pierre standing to win. It would be a very close fight, St. Pierre is a stylistic nightmare for Anderson that can’t be waived away just by saying he’s too small. Speed will actually be an asset for him in the fight.
by Michael Rome on Mar 31, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with your points about GSP's GNP,
but Silva is much, much taller than Penn & his guard would likely keep GSP far enough out to not take near as much damage as Penn did. It is definitely a very interesting fight to me & I would love to see it happen. Maybe I am reading too much into some of the comments, but it seems that some people have GSP quite easily defeating Silva & I think that severely underestimates Silva. I do not see how you can compare anything about Silva to Penn. GSP is a beast & he may very well be able to do some of these things, but to say if he gets Silva down it is over seems a little naive. The guy is extremely tall & long, not to mention the fact that GSP at some point will be in striking range to get that takedown. Good points though.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Some commentators might disagree
But I would hardly characterize the fight as a lock for GSP. I don’t think he could threaten Silva standing much and Silva’s accuracy/power with his strikes is enough to put just about anybody into a coma, let alone his insane thai clinch. Nobody GSP has fought has a clinch anywhere near Silva’s, and I suspect it would be quite the hurdle for him.
That said, I think GSP’s got the best chance out of anybody at 185 lbs. or below (and the vast majority above). It’s practically a pick ‘em in my mind, though I’ll admit that I’d lean toward GSP.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 31, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I do think GSP probably would have the best shot
at 185 or below, but I still do am unable to lean towards him taking Silva. Given what he would have to get thru to get Silva down & Silva being taller than the tallest guy GSP has faced, I think his GNP will not be effective as it has been in the past against smaller opponents (not counting Fitch as he could not threaten at all on the feet). I would love to see this fight, but it is beyond me how GSP could be considered as the favorite or even pick em in this matchup given what Silva has done. Until someone hurts him on the ground I cannot give another that edge. And on the feet GSP has shown he will not roll the dice too much lately & I am sure that Silva knows that so if he shoots he will likely pay for it.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Silva has shown some rudamentary ability with the rubber guard.
He included this segment as part of the reason that Silva would most likely do okay in a ground encounter with GSP. I disagreed.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 31, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Getting Silva to the ground aside (it’s another discussion), GSP’s top game, passing, and GNP are on another level as a complete fighter than anyone Anderson has faced. If GSP got top position, I see nothing to indicate that he couldn’t pass Anderson’s guard, and repeatedly do so. Keeping Anderson from regaining his feet in a scramble (Silva’s size here becomes and advantage) is another story, but GSP is non-stop action on top, passing to half guard, GNPing equally well to body and head, with both hands, and then passing to side control, etc. GSP’s style and ability are the best bet to beat Silva, but his substantial size differential in terms of weight and (on the feet) reach would be the biggest issue.
How much reach does Anderson have on St. Pierre? Under the UFC measurement it’s one inch, but their measurement is weird.
by Michael Rome on Mar 31, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right, GSP’s reach disadvantage would be about 1.5 inches, IIRC, according to the UFC measurements they give. I also wonder about Silva’s long legs also keeping GSP at a greater distance than normal.
Where I don’t think Anderson’s long limbs would help against GSP would be in Anderson’s guard. I think GSP would cut through it regularly while GNPing successfully while within it. What GSP does better than anyone is mix his strikes and passes. When the opponent is expecting strikes or takes a second to catch his breath, GSP passes to half guard, or from half to side control. It’s that pace and array of skills that makes it so tough for the guy on bottom.
Subbed
Past tense.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Mar 31, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that worked once. Anybody foolish enough to try it again…
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
It’s just crazy enough to work.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Mar 31, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, what if it’s too crazy? Or not quite crazy enough to work? Dammit – where’s my crazyometer?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
I generally value size very highly, but I think GSP would stand a good chance against Silva. He may not be quite as large as Henderson, but he’s less sloppy in the standup game. I also believe he’s just as dangerous in regard to taking the Spider down. If he can hang in there and force a takedown, I feel that he could inflict some serious damage on the ground. I really like GSP’s ground and pound along with his guard passing ability. The biggest threat to Silva, in my opinion, is an athletic (MMA) wrestler who can do damage on the ground while avoiding submissions but is also formidable in the standup. I feel some are selling GSP short.
I, on the other hand, think a lot of people are pumping GSP up just like BJ was pumped up before he got stomped. I think if GSP fights Silva he gets efficiently and thouroughly destroyed.
I think you’re wrong, but you’re welcome to your opinion.
by Cannon Jacques on Mar 31, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP won’t even need to pass, since his top game is so controlling and devastating. His GnP is arguably one of the best in the sport. It all depends on if Silva can keep it standing long enough to deliver the KO punch.
Anderson has something like 4 inches
of height on GSP.
I think it would be alot harder for GSP to GnP from the guard that you think.
He had no problem with Fitch, who was taller. Anderson is another 2 inches. I mean, it may be an issue, but St. Pierre has easily passed the guards of BJ Penn, Jon Fitch, Matt Serra, and Mayhem Miller. Not one has even stopped him up at all, I don’t think Anderson on the ground is a huge threat to GSP.
Unlike Couture or others, St. Pierre postures up in a way that should really negate the height issue. I think the fight is a pick’em due to what Anderson can do standing, but I think if it goes to the ground, Anderson is in serious trouble. St. Pierre’s top game doesn’t just hurt guys, it disables other parts of their game for the rest of the fight.
by Michael Rome on Mar 31, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP versus Silva
I am surprised at the number of people who suggest that GSP may have some difficulty in taking Silva down. Anderson has a terrible sprawl. Off the top of my head I can remember the following fighters putting Silva on his back: Henderson, Lutter, Marquardt, Okami, Takase and Otsuka. And I haven’t seen all of Silva’s fights (I have seen most of them). GSP, on the other hand, has had no trouble putting great wrestlers on their backs: Hughes, Koscheck, Fitch and Sherk. He also had no trouble taking down the always-elusive Penn.
So although several questions exist regarding a potential GSP-Silva matchup, “Will GSP be able to take Silva to the mat” is not one of them. In fact, unless Silva is able to KO GSP withinn the opening moments of the fight (which could happen), it seems like a foregone conclusion that this fight will go to the ground at least once.
That's where I'm at...
It’s only a matter of if Silva can catch GSP coming in on the regular and make him start to second guess coming in for the takedown. If he can take the aggressiveness out of GSP by punishing him when he gets close that would be the best possible takedown defense as Silva does have a tendency to get put on his back, especially by guys with good wrestling bases. This isn’t to say that GSP putting Silva on his back means GSP wins…it’s just to say that the idea that it’s crazy talk is just not jiving with my own personal reality.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 31, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Against Lutter both his knees were messed up, Marquardt did not put Silva on his back(iirc it happened the other way around), Okami missed like four takedowns in an embarrassing fashion before he got the takedown, and Henderson only got one takedown in the whole fight despite trying for a couple in the second round as well. Anderson doesn’t have amazing takedown defense and I wouldn’t be surprised to see GSP take him down, but you’re really underrating it and it’s very much in question that GSP could take him down consistently.
In the same sentence you say that “Anderson doesn’t have amazing takedown defense” but “it’s very much in question that GSP could take him down consistently.”
Doesn’t bad takedown defense + world-class takedown ability = takedown consistently?
if you completely over look the size advantage maybe. my point is just that i don’t think gsp is that much better a wrestler than marquardt or henderson and that he has a significant size disadvantage that they don’t. i guess i did leave that part out of my first post, sorry. but if they weren’t able to consistently take anderson down why would a much smaller fighter be able to? because of some stories about him being ridiculously strong coming from his own camp?
In the Marquard fight, Silva was on his back for half the fight. Obviously, you can’t put Silva on his back if he is already on his back.
Silva did pretty well against the takedown when he fought Henderson.
You say that Silva would have a significant size advantage, but really no one knows this. Maybe GSP is very strong as a middleweight fighter and maybe he isn’t. We don’t know, and that is probably the biggest question mark surrounding this matchup.
GSP is better at takedowns than Marquardt or even Henderson. That is why, when I see that Anderson gets taken down at least once per fight by every fighter that has attempted to take him down, I believe that GSP will be able to do this early and often.
If I’m remembering correctly, Marquardt got a takedown on Silva because Anderson threw a ridiculous flying kick and basically gave up the takedown. Granted, I haven’t seen the fight in a while, but that’s what I recall.
Let me clear up the semantics: Anderson Silva has bad takedown defense. He’s great fighting off his back, but don’t tell me that he is good at preventing the fight from going to the ground. His previous fights have pretty much all shown that, regardless of who was fighting him, if they tried to take him down, Silva would go down at least once. As a matter of fact, I am not sure Silva’s ever been in even one MMA bout where he successfully stuffed all takedown attempts.
in what way?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 31, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
????????????
Could you please elaborate?
by Cannon Jacques on Mar 31, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve just been reading post after post in this thread suggesting that GSP will walk through Silva and it reminds me of crazed Penn fans saying the same thing about Penn before his last fight against GSP. pud333 is the clearest offender with quotes like this:
bq. GSP won’t even need to pass. He’ll just brutalize Silva from the guard.
Actually, looking back through the thread it might just be that guy’s multiple posts that look completely ridiculous to me. Still, I keep getting the sense that people are severely overrating GSP’s chances in this fight if it ever goes down.
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