The Upside of Ken Shamrock vs Bobby Lashley
by Kid Nate on Mar 3, 2009 10:55 AM EST
in MMA Events
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Zach Arnold asks the question "Will you be interested in Shamrock vs. Lashley?" and answers it himself:
Yes. Oh yes, you will. A former WWE star involved in a Wrestlemania angle with Donald Trump versus The World’s Most Dangerous Man and UFC icon Ken Shamrock. On paper, it’s a great match-up to market. I don’t know if ‘freak show’ is a fair term to use here, but it’s certainly a compelling fight for a lot of reasons.
Let’s start off with Bobby Lashley. He’s probably going to be fighting at around 250 ~ 260 pounds and his opponent will be coming in at around 210 pounds. Automatically, Lashley will have a weight advantage and a strength advantage. Plus, he’s got an amateur wrestling background that will give Ken problems. If Ken can’t get control on the ground, then Lashley should be able to muscle him around. Even if this is Lashley’s second-ever MMA match, this will be a test for him. It could play out exactly like Frank Mir vs. Brock Lesnar did in UFC last year — Lesnar punished Mir until Mir submitted the big man. If Shamrock can take an onslaught of punishment from Lashley and have a referee who will allow the action to continue instead of choosing for an early stoppage, he has a chance of winning.
...
As for Ken Shamrock, facing Lashley is a good payday to start with. Plus, it’s an MMA rookie who has a big name and if Ken wins, then the casual fight fan will be impressed. Remember, the last image most fight fans have of Lashley is seeing him as a huge monster in WWE who beat up people. While the fight is set for the undercard of Roy Jones Jr.’s Pensacola PPV event and there’s less than three weeks left to market the event, at least this fight will be a YouTube moment and a fight that will get press coverage that the show otherwise wouldn’t have gotten.
Even if Shamrock loses to Lashley, you’ll watch a fight between Ken and Tank Abbott when it happens. Trust me. When that fight happens, they’ll draw at least 5,000 paid in Fresno or whatever California city is chosen. Therefore, there’s nothing much for Ken to lose by taking this fight against Bobby Lashley — and it will have great crowd heat.
You can make a strong case that the fight is utter horseshit from a sporting perspective, but Zach's cynical take is probably accurate. He's always keeping an eye focused on the crowd psychology through a pro-wrestling lens.
And as someone commented on Fightlinker recently, "pro-wrestling fans are often less mark-y than MMA fans." I think that's true. Other than a few 8 year olds and really old, dumb people, most wrestling fans are thoroughly in on the kayfabe these days.
Its us in the hardcore MMA community with our "MMA IS Sacred" stance that find ourselves often baffled and infuriated by the business decisions of the carny barkers and slimeball promoters who put their money behind the sport. The value of old pro-wrestling hands like Arnold and Dave Meltzer is the ability to see things from the perspective of the man in the ticket box instead of the fan of the sport. I'm not saying its right or wrong, just that its a good perspective to keep in mind.
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Am I the only one that thinks
if Lashley has an ounce of talent in his stand up, that he could really destroy Shamrock?
you quoted fightlinker??
they’re hardly a source for ANYTHING. especially where joe rogan is concerned… now for reading my pointless comments on your news, can i have $20/year?
I love Fightlinker
but this was a commenter, not Ryan.
Remember — even a broken clock is right twice a day…….unless its digital in which case that shit is garbage.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Mar 3, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just can’t shake the feeling that Ken Shamrock is going to die as a result of this fight or fights like this. If not in the ring, then a little while afterward.
I thought Kazushi Sakuraba would go first, but not anymore.
by pumaman on Mar 3, 2009 11:26 AM EST reply actions
“Its us in the hardcore MMA community with our "MMA IS Sacred” stance that find ourselves often baffled and infuriated by the business decisions of the carny barkers and slimeball promoters who put their money behind the sport."
That seems more like the stance of the “sensitive MMA community”. I don’t think long-time MMA watchers are up in arms about this card, or accusing Roy Jones of being a slimeball promoter. He (or his partners) put together three fun MMA fights on a boxing PPV. I see no reason to get all uppity about it. The idea that a fight like Shamrock vs. Lashley “hurts the sport” is totally wrong.
for once we agree!
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
While I agree completly with what you are saying this is a bit of eyerolling booking here. It doesn’t hurt the sport at all and the other two fights on the card are decent fights but making fun of Ken Shamrock fighting Bobby Lashley does come naturally (particularly to a old pro wrestling fan like me). There should be no outrage at this fight but it would be a very sad world indeed if we weren’t allowed to laugh at Ken Shamrock fight bookings anymore.
touche
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
Only Ken Shamrock could make a fight with Fatty McFatterson a must see event. Everyone complains about him still fighting but we will all be there watching when he does. Circuses have high wire acts and trapeeze artist and animal trainers performing amazing stunts but a lot of times it’s seeing how many clowns can fit in one tiny car that gets the crowd’s attention. For better or worse Ken has morphed from the “world’s most dangerous man” to a guy who takes a pie in the face for our amusement but either way he still draws a lot of eyeballs. At this point in his career I rather see him fighting a pro wrestler with one MMA fight than getting the crap beat out of him by Tim Sylvia(although both bookings are humourous).
It will hurt the sport if Ken Shamrock dies as a result of stuff like this, which he will sooner or later if he keeps it up.
by pumaman on Mar 3, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
yup.. smoogy hit the spot there..
I dont see why this is bad for the sport or anything.. They put 3 fun fights. And while it may not mean that much in terms of ranking, it doesnt ruin anything..
Nate, dont turn in to those old basketball guys who think and1 ruins the sanctity of basketball.. Everyone knows its for fun. It doesnt damage the sport or make the NBA lose its credebility..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 3, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
I worried for a bit about Nelson in combo with pro-wrestlers as the main MMA event of the evening. Just thought it’d look lame to the boxing fans. Leave a bad taste in their mouth.
I’m hella interested in Lashley though after seeing him on insideMMA. Seems grounded.
But the real problem is that you’ve got me drooling about and1 for MMA.
by asa on Mar 4, 2009 6:10 AM EST up reply actions
It isn’t a problem, that’s the problem. People blow these fights way out of proportion. I’ve been watching MMA for a long, long time since it started almost, and I’m probably one of the hard of the hardcore fans out there, and I have no problems with this fight.
It isn’t hard to look at it in terms of freak show/pro-wrestling angle/Lashley is a novice right now.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 4, 2009 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
It almost looked like you were indicating that there was going to be a fight between
Kurt Angle and Bobbly Lashley there for a second.
My only concern is about where and when Shamrock will get his career, and possibly life, ending injury fighting someone so much bigger and more powerful than he. Especially as his physical skills diminish more and more.
I’d say the guy should transition to coaching full time, but I watched TUF season 3…
I’m not too worried. I think in this kind of matchup, the referee will be fairly quick to stop it.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 4, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Ken Shamrock
Sometimes a fighter needs to get the shit beat out of him so badly that it will make him never come back. Hopefully Ken wins this fight, it is bettter for MMA if he does. Lets face it he is representing MMA in this fight.
How does he represent MMA in this fight.
If you could collectively ask MMA, I doubt that Ken Shamrock would be its choice of representative in any fight at this point.
There's a much bigger upside for MMA in Bobby Lashley
than in Ken Shamrock.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
Lashey is MMA know. I don’t understand this Pro wresling VS MMA shit. It’s a rocky VS Mike Tyson kinda shit. I’m pretty sure most people will not confront them as one is a sport and the other isn’t.
Through a pro-wrestling lens. I know enough about this sport to know the ancestral connection between MMA and pro-wrestling, shoot and show. But what I don’t understand is how some sites, and the Fight Network up here in Canada, present them as tantamount to eachother. I am a huge fan of MMA, and a huge not fan of pro-wrestling(not that I’m criticizing pro-wrestlers or fans), but it seems no matter how much I isolate myself from the WWE or TNA or fricken ROH or whatever wrestling organization I turn on my Knockout News and there is John Pollock telling me who won the last royal rumble, and who’s going to be on the next TNA card on Saturday. What the hell does that have to do with knockouts? Get your own wrestling show. And Wei Ting? I’m about to cancel this f@#$%* channel.
The majority of MMA fans came from pro wrestling (especially as far as Pride was concerned). Lets face it if pro wrestling was real it would look just like MMA and it shares a very similar fan base and target market. Many of the people reporting on MMA were long time pro wrestling reporters before they started reporting on MMA as did a lot of the fans(particularly internet fans).
There will be blood.
On lashey’s hands most likely. Aah Pro wrestling… I respect pro wrestlers for taking fake hits and real throws (well sometimes) for the fans but I don’t understand people that watch it.
Again, I don’t want to alienate any wrestling fans. The guys are athletes, they are connected, yadda yadda yadda. I concede these points and give wrestling the respect it has due. However, I personally lost interest when I was a kid. I change the channel when it comes on. Ultimately my point is that I am not a crossover fan. I don’t see a Pro-wrestling/MMA co-promotion ever happening anywhere. I do see boxing/MMA, or kickboxing/MMA. I simply want that line between shoot and show, to be a little more defined when it comes to news. And crossover fans have to at least acknowledge that for this sport to gain any cred in a main stream audience, you’re not going to be able to add little spoonfuls of WWE to the ESPN review.
can't argue with that
I personally lost interest in wrestling when Hulk Hogan took over from Andre the Giant as the star attraction. I did dip a toe back in to catch up via some books and documentaries on the Mankind era.
But Lashley fighting MMA isn’t a negative IMO.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
Oh come on...
What about Ultimate Warrior vs. Hulk Hogan… where Warrior fucking went crazy on his ass, then Hulk started the invincible “shake” and dropped the big leg on his ass
LOL, I can’t believe I remember this shit.
Best wrestler ever: Rick “The Model” Martel… come on… spray perfume on people and they pass out. You can’t make this stuff up.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 3, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
you're not the first person to tell me I missed
some classic folk opera by missing out on 80s and 90s pro-wrestling. alas.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
Honestly...
The 80’s and 90’s were actually fun to watch because there was less storylines. I was a kid then, and I didn’t have to follow 45 different soap operas. The biggest soap opera I remember was the Undertaker getting the coffin shut on his ass by the Ultimate Warrior.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 3, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Is ESPN covering them in the same way or at the same time? Pro Wrestling isn’t even pretending to be real anymore and there is a very distinct line between sports and sports entertainment and people who actually keep track on the internet of either are smart enough to know the difference.
What I was saying about ESPN was hypothetical. It seems to be the consensus that the majority of fans of MMA have crossed over from watching pro wrestling. To them pro wrestling is synonymous with fighting. I could not hold a more opposite opinion. So, to reiterate, when I watch knockout news, or MMAinsider, or something like that, I don’t give a flying donut who is in the next summerslam. Just like when I watch football, I’m not inundated by rugby updates or Aussie rules football, even though they are clearly related.
Seriously, people need to cut the fucking Ken Shamrock hatefest out. Honestly, if the guy wants to fight and the commissin approves it, tough shit.
I’m not a fan of Ken Shamrock, but the guy just wants to fight and promote. We shouldn’t shit all over him because he still loves to fight.
Furthermore, he’s not a complete can in this fight. Lashley might be this monstrosity wrestler, but Ken still has some submission experience over Lashley. It’ll also sell out the damn venue probably, and it has a compelling undertone to it because it is only Lashley’s second fight.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
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