Bloody Elbow: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: The Nova Blog for Villanova Fans!

Ditch the Syringe, Pick Up a Soda

Caffeine_medium

This has been making the rounds on all the good baseball blogs, and I feel it's relevant for MMA.  From the New York Times:

The performance improvement in controlled laboratory settings can be 20 to 25 percent, Dr. Tarnopolsky said. But in the real world, including all comers, the improvement may average about 5 percent, still significant if you want to get your best time or even win a race.

For years, researchers believed that you needed about 5 to 6 milligrams of caffeine per kilogram of body weight. An 80-kilogram, or 176-pound man, for example, would need about 400 milligrams of caffeine, or 20 ounces of coffee.

Now, Louise M. Burke, the head of sports nutrition department of the Australian Institute of Sport in Canberra, reports that athletes get the full caffeine effect with as little as 1 milligram of caffeine per kilogram of body weight. Instead of 20 ounces of coffee, a 176-pound man could drink 4 ounces of coffee, or about two 12-ounce cans of Coke.

I recommend reading the entire article.  I'm interested to see if any regulatory bodies (WADA, pro sports leagues, state athletic commissions) will take a look at banning caffeine.  Personally, while I understand the need to ban substances to avoid a "keeping up with the Joneses" effect, I've never had a strong stance against performance enhancing substances.  Findings such as this continue to blur the line between socially acceptable drugs and supplements and demonized substances like anabolic steroids.  Is an "all or nothing" approach the most optimal?

1 recs  |  Comment 60 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

F%*K IT!

Just level the field and open the flood gates. Allow any and all PEDs to be used at the athletes own risk. Every sport, every league, the Olympics, anything goes! Juice it up, snort it, take pure adrenaline between rounds. Lets see what we can do. Greg Jackson can create real life marvel comic super heroes in his basement. As long as an athlete’s actual human DNA is not altered they may compete.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Mar 29, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

But I want my genetically modified Timmy to get more playing time!

Where do you draw the line? It cannot be nowhere. Ken Caminiti RIP

by subo on Mar 29, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

also lets look at protein shakes, creatine, NO2 boosters, zinc and magnesium supplements, glutamine and any other number of performance enhancers. should we also ban trainers because not everyone would have access to the same camps. for the most part the anti-P.E.D. camp falls into two groups, the uninformed and those living in never-neverland

"King of NBA Live '09"

by #5mmafan on Mar 29, 2009 5:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have another idea, let’s just make all athletes sleep for 8 hours before their event starts and only be allowed to wake up 30 minutes before.

by ufc4 on Mar 29, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

does that then rule out insomniacs from competing?

by snet tim on Mar 29, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it’s legal and you can’t overdose on it (reasonably), then I don’t think it should be regulated. It’s the guys shooting each other in the ass with drugs that would get you or me 10-15 in the federal pen that I want stopped. Illegal substances that enhance your performance should be the sole purview of the athletic commissions.

by subo on Mar 29, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Prima Facie, this is the sort of standard I would use

My two tests are:
1. Is it ultimately harmful to the athletes’ health?
2. Is it prohibitively expensive, such that not athletes could afford it?

If the answer to both is no, then I’m okay with it. I’d have to iron out the details, but I think that this is a decent start.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Mar 29, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Excuse me, that should read “not all athletes could afford it?”

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Mar 29, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Caffiene is harmful to your health

And Tylenol is EXTREMELY dangerous in terms of over the counter substances.

So I don’t think 1 holds up.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 29, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that we can make pretty clear distinction between abuse and use here. Use of caffeine and tylenol will not be deleterious to one’s health in the long term while abusing them (using them more than directed, mixing them with other substances for effect, etc.) could be.

I’ll revise #1:
Is the sort or type of usage [of whatever substance in question] ultimately harmful to the athletes’ health?

Do you think that works better? Should I put ‘significantly’ between ‘ultimate’ and ‘harmful’?

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Mar 29, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And, contrary to popular opinion, you can use steroids safely.

http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Mar 29, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Umm, for performance enhancement? No way. Do you believe in Xenu too?

by MMARich on Mar 29, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When a doctor says ‘take these for this at this time and then stop’, sure.

by subo on Mar 29, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Safely . . . well to a certain level

I’ve heard several times that having a doctor monitor your body thru a cycle will help prevent the majority of the harmful effects . . . not to mention he probably has access to the real stuff and not the syringe of drano that is often sold on the street. Of course, I’ve heard that the shrinking nuts and angry paranoia still remain as side effects no matter how safe you to try be.

by bignerd on Mar 29, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are other roids out there besides testosterone…

by EnsignFrog on Mar 29, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

true, but the ones that people tend to use as PEDs are anabolic-androgen steroids (AAS), most common one is testosterone, or its derivatives, which the body still recognizes as testosterone and thus the same effects/side-effects occur

by snet tim on Mar 30, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there’s research now that shows that caffeine is actually quite beneficial for people’s health, when in moderation of course. but anything outside of moderation is bad. hell, too much water and you get cramps because of unbalancing salt levels and other electrolytes.

so the amending rundown did covers that now.

by snet tim on Mar 30, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A new article doesn’t mean the information is new. Caffeine supplementation in strength sports waxes and wanes constantly.

by Simco on Mar 29, 2009 6:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Would be interested in links to prior studies quantifying the effects of caffeine use in athletics.

http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Mar 29, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

your wish is granted.

here is a bit that i could find via google scholar:

Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/2/452
      main points: (1) muscle ATP is the same when using creatine and caffeine (Cr+C) or creatine (Cr); (2) Dynamic torque production was increased by 10-23% with Cr; (3) Cr supplements elevate muscle phosphocreatine concentrations “and markedly improves performance during intense intermittent exercise.” (4) “Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading”

Effect of caffeine and ephedrine ingestion on anaerobic exercise performance
http://www.acsm-msse.org/pt/re/msse/abstract.00005768-200108000-00024.htm;jsessionid=JQJcn411pJDb42jsll2FXRx2qgHQcdzQn04GW0WsJj4h2WWRJvkn181195628-1
     main points: (1) Ephedrine increased power output during the early phase of the Wingate test; (2) C increased time to exhaustion and O2 deficit during the MAOD test; (3) C, E, and C+E increased blood lactate, glucose, and catecholamine (a predominate neurotransmitter) levels; (4) improvement in anaerobic exercise performance likely a result of both stimulation of the CNS by E and skeletal muscle by C.

haven’t seen a lot of how caffeine alone can help, but the second one seems to indicate that it helps more with the muscles alone, which is interesting, since C is in many OTC drugs for mood enhancement which would generally be more linked with the CNS since most mood receptors are in the brain.

by snet tim on Mar 30, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Big ups. Rec’d.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Mar 30, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What, this is new?

I used caffeine to enhance my performance in college middle distance track events. So what? 3 cups of coffee and I would get thru the first 8-9 laps of a 12 lap race feeling great. It works, it’s been working for centuries and who really cares if you drink coffee? PED’s like steroids are worth worrying about. Caffeine? Please

by toogie on Mar 29, 2009 7:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, runners have known the effects of caffeine for at least two decades. Not to mention anyone whose ever had a cup coffee to get them started on their work day.

We should rule out food and water while we are at this insane cliff of the slippery slope argument. I’m sure trail test will prove that an athlete supplying his body with food and water will substantially out perform the athlete who doesn’t.

by bignerd on Mar 29, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Food is indeed a performance enhancing substance. Rampage fasted before his fight with Forrest and look what happened!

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Mar 29, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Caffeine comes under the performance enabling drug category if you ask me – NOT performance enhancer.

by MMARich on Mar 29, 2009 7:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What is the difference?

by toxic on Mar 29, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This brings up an interesting thought...

We all have our opinions on what big time athletes should/shouldn’t take. But what do we take ourselves?

Myself:

GNC Joint vitamin pack
DHEA 25
NOXplode
1-2 protein shakes per day
1/2 a 5 hour energy if I am sluggish or on little sleep
G2 after workouts
this stuff called MediTropin that is supposed to boost your body’s GH production, but I take it because it helps me sleep better and recover a little better
1 large coffee every morning
I add sugar to nothing and try to limit how much I take in

I would say this is 200-300 bucks a month and I probably will cut a couple of things out for that reason. I know many athletes get free supplements if they are sponsored by a company or outlet, but otherwise, they may be spending a lot of money on this stuff.

List what you guys use. I think it would be interesting to see what items you take, how much you spend and what you feel benefits from taking.

If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.

by BJJDenver on Mar 29, 2009 7:55 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I smoke weed.

by subo on Mar 29, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A lot of “Cup o Joe” in the morning and Crown Royal at night. My wife loves my performance too!

In the morning that coffee get me up, at night my wife does (the Crown is for sleeping).

by Riney on Mar 29, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

1-2 cans of Coke
Lots of sugar
OTC Headache meds (chronic migraines)
Anti-anxiety meds (Prescription)

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Mar 29, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

flaxseed, multi, 300mg caffeine (pillform) pre-bjj, Superpump pre-lifts (if my account provides the cushion), creatine monohydrate in the am, lots and lots of protein (powder, whole food, bars, etc.)

BJJDenver: if you have problems sleeping and recovering try ZMA

by beersnbroads on Mar 29, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks beer, I will check it out.

If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.

by BJJDenver on Mar 30, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

About two hours before I go an work out or roll, I eat two pieces of toast with peanut butter and honey. Afterwards and within about an hour, I have a glass of milk or chocolate milk. That would be about the extent of my training specific food/supplement regimen. I don’t really know too much about any of this so I stick with food/drink.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Mar 29, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have heard that chocolate milk is a great post workout drink, without spending 5 bucks.

If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.

by BJJDenver on Mar 30, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I fully endorse its use. I tend to feel pretty good after workouts/rolling in large part due to this food and drink.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Mar 30, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I fully endorse chocolate milk too. It’s yummy!.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Mar 30, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cocaine.

Keep firing Assholes!

by Ubernoober on Mar 29, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know at one point, use was pretty common amongst the bodybuilder scene, as a ped and a leaning agent. Not sure if that is still the case.

If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.

by BJJDenver on Mar 30, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coffee immediately upon arrival to work
Once daily men’s vitamin
Powerbar “step 1” orange energy bar pre cardio workout
Myoplex shake post strength work out
Marijuana for faster recovery
Aleve for my shoulder pain
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale or Sierra Nevada Torpedo IPA for weekend buzz

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Mar 29, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Muscle Milk Protein Powder 32g per (Chocolate Almond, Mmmmm)
MuscleTeck Creakic Hardcore Creatine
GNC Multivitamin pack
Agua, mucha agua (H2O)
Eat right. (Tuna, Chicken, usually only cheat on Saturdays)

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Mar 30, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve studied the history of drugs, and it’s absurd how illegal stuff got that way. Marijuana was associated with blacks and Mexicans during the 1900s, and of course respectable Americans couldn’t be seen doing the same substances as them! THC, MDMA, LSD, and DMT all have proven medical benefits, yet are illegal. Alcohol and nicotine don’t do jack, but are perfectly acceptable. If someone is angry or unruly, are they more likely to be high or drunk? How many people have OD’d on pot?

Make no mistake, I certainly don’t favor legalizing everything, and some, like psychedelics, should be prescribed or strictly therapeutic, but the current regulating are flat-out retarded. Now that NSAC and cohorts are testing for THC, caffeine, they’re overlooking actual beneficial policies, like preventing old, damaged fighters from competing.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Mar 29, 2009 9:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Don’t forget William Randolph Hearst and Harry J. Anslinger. They did what they could too.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Mar 29, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

isn’t one of the big problems about legalizing weed due to how easy it is to grow and thus it can’t be taxed really? also, there’s a fair amount of revenue in fines for getting busted with it. also, would as many people do it if it wasn’t so taboo?

if they ban caffeine that rules out a lot of OTC drugs that have it in there because its a mood enhancer, if you feel better mentally, you’re more likely to feel better physically (psycho-somatic stuff). BC powder and Midol are two prime examples of OTC pain products which also have caffeine. seems to be getting a bit ridiculous.

by snet tim on Mar 30, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

also means you gotta watch out for those energy bars with chocolate in them since chocolate contains caffeine as well… no pre-fight snickers!

by snet tim on Mar 30, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Caffeine stimulates blood flow, and migraines are believed to be caused in part by constricted blood vessels in the brain, so the caffeine opens them up. One of the best remedies I’ve found for migraines is drinking Coke, coffee, etc with meds.

You’re right about the difficulties with taxing pot, though the new Attorney General, Eric Holder, will no longer raid medical marijuana farms, which has long been the general policy. Some also complain that if the gov’t regulates it, the price will increase while the strength will decrease to profit the new industry.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Mar 30, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excedrine contains caffeine as well, and I think might help with a common cause for a lot of headaches I finally figured out were due to caffeine withdrawal.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Mar 30, 2009 5:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Caffeine is the #1 most commonly-used addictive substance in the US, I’m pretty sure. I try to limit my intake because of my frequent headaches – I don’t need the detox effects too. Lots of times in hospitals, patients are given something to counter caffeine withdrawals.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Mar 30, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So that Xyence stuff really works then.

Keep firing Assholes!

by Ubernoober on Mar 29, 2009 10:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if you assume that 100% of fighters do not use caffeine pre workouts AND prefights, then youre in a fantasy world.

MOST of them also do prohormones of some form. so get real. its called a cycle and you can time it perfectly to piss clean come fight time. how else do you think they recover so quickly and gain so much LEAN muscle mass in an ungodly, short pd of time?

wake up guys.

by beersnbroads on Mar 29, 2009 10:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I always see hockey players in the pre-game walk through the building in your fancy suit part, drinking coffees.

I also remember Randy Coutures all access before he fought Gonzaga maybe or it could have been Sylvia, where he said he does not drink coffee or use caffeine at all because it increases the lactic acid in your body. And also eats a lot of greens to decrease the amount of it.

I remember people in minor hockey doing effedrin (spelled it wrong) before games for the caffeine high or whatever is in it, I never did that though.

by DirtyML on Mar 29, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I say we ban air. Its been enhancing people’s performances for way too long.
Airgate, Fall 09’ – Mark it down!

by Sokonojudo on Mar 30, 2009 1:22 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

RIGHT ON BROTHER!! Dont forget those pesky carbohydrates too. I hear many athletes unethically load up on the stuff the night before. Sneaky punks conceal it in their huge bowls of rice and pasta! What is this world coming to!?!?!?!

by GeeDub on Mar 30, 2009 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Caffeine and Performance Enhancement

What’s great about this news is that I don’t use any products that contain caffeine, thus allowing me to stay atop my moral high horse and look down on the unwashed masses who poison their bodies with these substances. Just a good multi-vitamin, some BCAAs, and Whey for me.

Oh, did I mention that no one has ever offered to pay to watch me compete in any athletic endeavor in which I’ve taken part?

(No, I’m not suggesting caffeine or any other performance enhancing supplements are required to become a professional athlete, I’m just being self-deprecating).

Also, for whatever it’s worth, I almost never use Acetaminophen or Ibuprofen, either. My jiu jitsu instructor “stack(ed) Ibuprofen with Advil,” with harrowing consequences.

"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard

by Brett Jones on Mar 30, 2009 9:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Also, for whatever it’s worth, I almost never use Acetaminophen or Ibuprofen, either. My jiu jitsu instructor "stack(ed) Ibuprofen with Advil," with harrowing consequences.

He couldn’t go to the bathroom for a week?

by bignerd on Mar 31, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken
Start posting on Bloody Elbow »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

100_0084_small
The Kid Nate Hate Thread
Strangesuspense_small
Big Questions: James Toney Madness
Small
It's a bird...it's a plane....it's supercards!
Small
WEC in Trouble Does Not Equal Zuffa in Trouble
100_0084_small
When Should a Fighter Walk Away?

Recent FanPosts

Fightposter_small
Takeya Mizugaki vs. Rani Yahya Set For WEC 48
Small
Who do you think wins the fights @ UFC 111
Th_family_values_009_small
College Cage Series reality show to air on FSN in May, Antonio McKee headlines March 19th event
Weoweoweodotdeviantartdotcom_by_weoweoweo_small
How's Taste My Tweet Tweet? Mixed Martial Arts on Twitter for the 2nd Week of March
Imga0025_small
Athletes And Knowing When To Say Goodbye

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

MMA Rankings

USA Today / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings