UPDATE: Vancouver city council punts MMA decision, leaves sport unregulated
UPDATE 2: The Vision Vancouver-led council heard a ton of arguments in support of MMA regulation, including from their own athletic commission, then ducked the issue entirely.
Dr Rajindar Sandhu, a member of the Vancouver Athletic Commission was visibly angry at the decison.
"I am literally pissed at this," he said. "This council does not want to make a decision. I think if we come back with the information they want, they are going to just table it again."
Council asked for a bunch more 'studies' to be done and asked for the provincial govt to take the issue over. One wonders why they're happy to let someone else tell them whether MMA can happen in their own buildings, rather than control the issue themselves. The only possible reason could be they don't want to be the ones to approve 'ultimate fighting'..
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Update 1 on the Vancouver MMA regulation vote - Jeff Lee at the Vancouver Sun has got Suzanne Anton, one of the councilors who will make the ultimate call on MMA, to confirm she's in the pro-regulation camp.
“The sport has come a long way in self regulation,” Anton said in a press release. “And with additional regulation by the Vancouver Athletic Commission (VAC), I am confident these events can be relatively safe.”
Anton said mixed martial arts events draw huge crowds and could be a good economic driver for Vancouver. “A lot of people love this sport,” she said. “You could fill GM Place with one of the events.”
Anton is a member of the NPA, which ran council when they de-regulated MMA in '07, so this is a positive shift. I know at least two other councilors are also leaning pro-regulation, so we're in good shape. Should know more in the coming hours.
Word from the meeting says council is giving the sport the jaundiced eye at the moment, but their own athletic commission, the owners of the local Vancouver Canucks NHL stadium, city staff and local MMA trainers are putting up a strong fight.
Jeff Lee's article above has been updated with details.
Promoted to the front page from the FanPosts by Luke Thomas.
The media in Vancouver has been buzzing for the past week as the local council prepares to decide whether to move towards MMA regulation or spin off into some hand-wringing NIMBY wonderland.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried the latter might win out, but if it does, it won't be because of the media in this town. It's pretty clear that there's a lean towards welcoming MMA and the money, etc that follows.
Anyhoo, today the UFC's Marc Ratner, VP of regulatory affairs, gets the op-ed page in the Vancouver Sun - the paper of record in Van city.
He makes a good pitch:
In these tough economic times, I would be remiss if I didn’t touch on the economic impact a UFC event brings to a city. As an example, on April 18 we will be holding an event in Montreal’s Bell Centre, our second show in that venue. 18,000 tickets were sold two months in advance of the show - our second sell-out there in twelve months - which generated $4.6 million in ticket revenue. We’ve been told by the Bell Centre that over half of that crowd comes from outside Montreal, so the economic benefit for local businesses can be anywhere from $6 to $8 million alone for a single three-hour event.
And this isn’t a situation where the UFC comes in for one night, makes some money and leaves, never to be heard from again. We’re looking to build a sport in Vancouver, and anywhere else we go. In the last couple of years, as well as the province of Quebec, we’ve added London, Dublin, Belfast, Manchester, Birmingham, and Newcastle to the list of international cities that have welcomed the UFC locally. We will be visiting Germany in June, and close to 40 states in the United States have sanctioned the sport in the last decade, including the two states considered to be the capitals for professional combat sports, Nevada and New Jersey.
MMA is a great international sport that I am privileged to be associated with, and we would love to bring it to Vancouver so fight fans here can experience it for themselves.MMA is a great international sport that I am privileged to be associated with, and we would love to bring it to Vancouver so fight fans here can experience it for themselves.
Will the Pacific Northwest open up to the UFC? We should know more Thursday afternoon.
Feel free to visit the link above and post your thoughts.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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53 comments
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Comments
I’ll put this on the front page in the afternoon. Just need to give our announcement some time.
by Luke Thomas on Mar 25, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Really good post.
Ratner does a nice job of explaining the benefits as well as misconceptions regarding MMA in a succinct manner. It’s definitely worth reading the entire Op-Ed.
by Cannon Jacques on Mar 25, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good work, Ozzz. Keep pushin’. And “hand-wringing NIMBY wonderland” is about the most accurate description of the general attitude of the municipal athletic council that I’ve ever seen.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
With these events
bringing in that much money to the places they are held why do some still resist?
by Wookalarman on Mar 25, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Post-theological moralistic guilt. Which is to say, for some it is about honestly feeling that “violence is wrong”, and for the rest, it’s being terrified of being seen to side with something that the general public considers morally reprehensible.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like you have spent some time in a textbook recently.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on Mar 25, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m an academic. I never get out of them.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Academia FTW! Which branch?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Mar 25, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Multidisciplinary; both my undergrad and MA were in multidisciplinary programs, so I’ve done everything from calculus to history. But I’ve focused on political theory, geopolitics, political economies, and the politics of social movements. I’m starting my PhD in Human and Political Geography in the fall in the UK.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As anyone who has been in academia for a while will tell you, a big brain is not required. Either having a large amount of money or writing the kind of articles and books that attracts grant money is required.
I have no money, and I write on radical politics. I think I should find a new career.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps going into movies? If thats really you in your pic, you look like a straight up villain. :)
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 25, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s just an opinion born out of ignorance and hubris. Some people make rash judgements without looking at the facts or without even thoroughly investigating what they’re judging on. And sometimes these same people also believe they know what is considered “good taste” and “acceptable” to society, even though a lot of people would see it differently. Unfortunately, some of these ignorant people are in places of power.
On a positive note, great post Ozzz. I normally read the Globe, cause the local papers are kind of bogus, but the Sun is head and shoulders above the rest in Vancouver.
by pud333 on Mar 25, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What he said.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Appreciated, yo.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Mar 25, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first article of BE in the post USA Today era. A well done one at that. Choi’d
by szucconi on Mar 25, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s interesting that people opposing MMA just sweep aside all the benefits that the UFC brings to the region. I’m flabbergasted that the New York would say no with the economic upside, and Vancouver should consider this as well.
Ratner makes good points, but these are the standard points that I find easy to mull over by anybody. Politicians and the like need to get over their fear of safety issues. If it’s regulated correctly, it should be fine.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 25, 2009 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What kills me about Vancouver is that they say “yes” to the Olympics and tout the economic benefits, ignoring studies that show them to be economically DEVISTATING for many host cities, but won’t take on MMA which has actual tangible economic benefits. WTF.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of people were naive about what it really meant to host the Olympics, and wanted to believe the lies the politicians were telling them about how little it would cost.
by pud333 on Mar 25, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll go against the grain on this.
I was at the Sydney Games and saw what it can do for a city if things are run right, with a view to permanent legacies for a city. In the end, you make a profit, but the profit isn’t in cash but in infrastructure and tourism exposure (some put the Sydney tourism exposure at about $12b in free advertising worldwide).
The problem with the Vancouver Games is it’s being run like a chance for a lot of well-connected people to fleece the public purse, with every infrastructure improvement being put together as a ‘least possible effort/least possible benefit’ scenario.
For the Sydney Games, the govt built an underground network of roads so you could go from the airport to the other end of the city without ever coming up for daylight, virtually eliminating traffic problems. Then they built massive improvements to transit and told people their cars weren’t welcome at the events, thus creating a huge boost to public transport numbers.
In Vancouver? They built an extra lane heading up to Whistler, and they’ll put a retracting roof on the main stadium… after the Games are over. Nuts.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Mar 25, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t disagree that any event that brings millions of people plus the opportunity to dig up and rework the infrastructure of an entire city certainly has the potential to be a fantastic investment. But in addition to the mishandling you mentioned, BC took that huge amount of money from the federal government to help pay for “Olympic security”, and in exchange the Feds won’t be sending something like 2/3 of the usual transfer payments earmarked for – you guessed it – infrastructure. Vancouver is doing things COMPLETELY BACKWARDS, much like Athens did (though they sunk an ungodly amount of money into their games about four months before hand and got some benefit out of it).
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they could all be like the Sydney Games...
..I’d save money to go every two years.
As an example of teh awesome, the Dutch Olympic team drank the nation dry of Heineken, which had authorities sending away for emergency replacement stock from New Zealand.
The other big shortage? Condoms.
What’s also memorable is how the entire population of the city got behind the event. I met an American family that had gone to the equestrian events, way the hell out of town, and through a series of odd circumstances had missed the last bus back to the city. So a car stops alongside them, completely unrequested, and the driver says “you look like tourists.. need a ride anywhere?” They say “Oh, we need to get back to Sydney but it’s a 90 minute drive..” The driver says, “Hop in. I’ve got nothing better to do,” and drives them right to their hotel door.
Such. A good time.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Mar 25, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only downsides I can see is that it will take state funded monies to fund the Athletic Commission, pay some people some wages to carry out testing, etc.
The bigger picture would be if the UFC fans coming to events were unruly and required some sort of crowd control…. which hasn’t happened yet. That’s the ONLY thing I can think of in terms of money concerns to funding something like this.
Don’t they charge sales tax and things of that nature in Canada? It’ll bring economic impact and monies to the budget of the province with that alone. Plus, it’ll bolster the economy in the city.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 25, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, they do. There’s a federal sales tax, and some provinces (including BC) have an additional provincial sales tax.
Also, the AC already has the infrastructure in place; not only were they regulating MMA in the past, but they’re also partnered with VANOC (Vancouver Olympic Committee).
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, this begs the question… is it just ignorant people stopping this?
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 25, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Many are ignorant. You hear a lot of “I don’t like that ultimate fighting stuff, where the two men fight in a cage; I think it’s wrong” especially from the blue hair crowd (no offence intended to anyone on here with blue hair). But many more are worried about the appearance of endorsing “ultimate fighting” in front of others who are against it. The problem is, I think, that there are lots of people who really don’t have a strong feeling about MMA one way or the other, but they’re more afraid of the backlash from the ignorant than from the educated. That’s where the AC sits, I think. They’re selectively chosing reports to cite and so on; it’s not that they don’t know anything, but that they’re pretending to know less than they do.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 26, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s only been banned for a couple of years now so it’s not like it’s written in stone. Money talks. Just convince them that the MMA revenue will pay for the Sea to Sky.
by bubbafat on Mar 25, 2009 2:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thing is, it’s not even “banned”. The AC just decided against participating in regulating it, so it’s in a weird legal-bureaucratic limbo.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the AC were okay with it.
They just wanted council to give them more manpower to do it properly, which kicked in the ‘staff report’ that suggested there might be a liability issue to address. That was all the handwringers needed to throw their hands up and stop regulating it entirely.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Mar 26, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that’s true. I was never clear on how much of their decision was influenced by the “liability issue” (I put it in quotations because their own medical officer advised them that it was fine, and then they cited that stupid British report over that opinion), and how much it was already decided and the liability issue was a convenient excuse.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 26, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ATTENTION NEW YORKERS!!!
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
by BJJDenver on Mar 25, 2009 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
New York baffles me. The state wanted to TAX fucking SODA, can you believe that? And tax Ipod downloads and other ridiculous stuff. Yet, MMA can’t get passed along as a money making venture which is basically free money with the exception of putting a little money down to fund a commission. It baffles me how anyone can be against all the sales tax money and everything else associated with MMA coming to a huge city.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 25, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Straight up politics.
No doubt.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Mar 26, 2009 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m crossing my fingers that Vancouver does the right thing. While I live in one of the few provinces that allow MMA the population (or lack thereof) means the UFC won’t be coming here anytime soon (Calgary/Edmonton). So Vancouver is a lot closer than Montreal and a lot more likely to get a UFC event than my city due to a much larger population.
by pr0cs on Mar 25, 2009 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What sucks in Alberta’s case is that, with the way the economy had been going, the Calgary-Edmonton corridor was one of the fastest growing areas on the continent. Another year, and the UFC would have had to seriously look at Calgary. Now everything has ground to a halt.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so fast on that.
Ratner told me he’s actively talking with folks in both Calgary and Edmonton, and that the Saddledome is being discussed as an option.
And when I say he’s actively talking to them, I mean they’re calling him and asking what’s needed to get the UFC there ASAP.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Mar 25, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that’s good news. I’ve been to a few local shows here and while they weren’t sell outs they had a good group of knowledgeable fans. Likely they sold poorly due to lack of marketing.
Either way I’m crossing my fingers for Vancouver in hoping they make a positive historic vote. Thanks for the info.
by pr0cs on Mar 25, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HCF put on some seriously terrible shows in Alberta before it went away which is weird cus the same guys put on decent small kick boxing shows.
That said I go to the bar here in Calgary for every UFC event and I can definitely say there would be huge support for a UFC event here.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on Mar 25, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HCF put on some much better events in Montreal. That promotion was always a mixed bag because it was split between two controlling interests.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so was keith crawford the one that made it suck then?
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on Mar 25, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No idea; I only became aware of some of the internal weirdness towards the end of the promotion and I was never able to figure out exactly what was going on. Now, everyone who was involved seems to want to not talk talk about HCF, so I figured it was better to drop it than keep digging.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I was at the RawCombat show (same promoter from what I understand, not Crawford) in October and it was really well done. The show had a lot of competitive bouts and the event went off really smoothly, as good as any MFC event IMO.
Flights from Calgary→Vancouver are dirt cheap, less than Calgary→Montreal anyway so I’m happy with any place out west getting ‘the big show’.
by pr0cs on Mar 25, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? That’s awesome news. I suppose if they can go to Columbus, Ohio, there’s no reason not to go to Alberta. I just figured the “provincial Canada” perception would hurt them.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the other thing that is important is..
..the amount of Calgarians with big fat oil-loving wallets.
If you’re looking to sell $800 tickets, you need some of those guys with $80,000 trucks around.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Mar 25, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is true, but with the beating that oil has taken recently, I have to wonder how many of those big fat oil-loving wallets are still open. Seen a lot of young people who left BC to make the bucks in Alberta coming home lately…
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tons of people from BC and Saskachewan and the maritimes came out to Calgary thinking that the world would be handed to them on a silver platter. There was, and still is, lots of money to be made if you are smart and/or willing to work hard. We took a bit of a hit when natural gas prices went in the toilet and a bit more recently from oil being low but I don’t think we have seen much fallout from this “credit crisis”
I’m sure flames playoff tickets will still be going to ridiculous rates.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on Mar 25, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could be WWIII and a second Depression all rolled into one and Flames playoff tickets would still require a blood sacrafice. I’ve been to the Red Mile; it’s an intimidating place for non-Flames fans!
Glad to hear things aren’t as rough in Alberta as I’d feared.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 25, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Today's update
That’s a bunch of f’ing bull. That’s EXACTLY what they did last time, a year and a half ago! JEEBUS!!!
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 26, 2009 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and...
asking the province to take over the decision is a complete cop-out farce given that we’re a couple weeks away from an election announcement, meaning:
1) No one in the province will touch this issue before the election.
2) During the interregnum period, the Province literally CAN’T do anything about this.
3) After the election, with new cabinet, MMA will be somewhere between beating a dead horse and developing tube technology on the list of the government’s priorities.
Absolute passing of the buck to a group that isn’t even around to take it.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 26, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's bullshit, is what it is.
They asked staff to get a report together back in 2007. Staff did so, encouraging MMA, so now they’re sending staff back to do another report.
The local MMA community turned out in droves for this meeting, plenty of smart people making impassioned pleas to do what everyone else is doing, bring the city into the 21st century, and instead of voting on it, the Vision Vancouver rubes brought out a clearly ‘written and prepared before they even started hearing discussion’ motion to defer it.
They can authorize chickens to be kept in people’s backyards without any report as to rodent issues, disease potential, etc, but MMA needs continual reports done until Vancouver is the last place left that won’t regulate the sport.
The worst thing is, the next time some gang member shows up dead and has one or two MMA fights in his past, they’ll say MMA attracts a bad crowd, but they won’t do a thing to help the sport come out of the shadows locally.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Mar 26, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nail on head. What a bunch of garbage.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 26, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a shame, and par for the course when it comes to local government passing the buck.
by pr0cs on Mar 27, 2009 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m almost willing to make the trade if this whole crisis gets us legalized pot and regulated MMA. Apparently, starving the beast is the only way to make it learn.
by subo on Mar 27, 2009 6:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs



















