Congenital Amputee Kyle Maynard to Fight MMA Match--Updated with poll
by thetakeover on Mar 24, 2009 2:54 PM EDT
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Promoted to the front page from the FanPosts by Luke Thomas. Two years or so ago this issue of Maynard fighting MMA caused heated debate within the community about whether a) Maynard had a right to compete and b) right or not, whether it was safe for him or fair for his opposition. I'd be curious to see where sentiments are today.
Courtesy of MMAfighting via Deadspin comes the tale of an armless, legless phenom whose about to enter the cage:
The amateur fight will happen at "Auburn Fight Night" at the Auburn Covered Center.
The 22-year-old Maynard in 2004 won the ESPN ESPY award Best Athlete With A Disability.
Maynard was previously denied a license to fight MMA by the Georgia Athletic & Entertainment Commission.
YouTube of him wrestling from Larry King Live after the jump. He cites Randy Couture as an inspiration:
UPDATE: Poll added, hattip to themachiavellian in the comments.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Technically, he's not an amputee ...
… because I think he was born without arms or legs, but it was too long to explain in the headline.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
Hope you don’t mind, I modified it a little and changed the pic. (I got confused, thought he was fighting Ryan Jensen.)
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
by Chris Nelson on Mar 24, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the fixes, Chris!
And thanks for the Frontpage consideration, Luke!
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
Kyle Maynard is the fucking man.
Best of luck to him in his MMA career.
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
I think it's unfair...
How do you armbar him or catch him in a heel hook?!??? He’s practically cheating!!!
but at the same time...
he’s going to have a hard time pulling off a heel hook or an armbar
im not impressed with your performance
i agree
How could he defend strikes??
by GroundNPound561 on Mar 24, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
He can duck
… under any punches or elbows. Looking at the video, he’s going to be very, very low. Kyle is a tremendously impressive person, and he’s earned the right (by proving so many people wrong over the years) to do this.
The smart way to attack him would be to kick the body and stay out of reach. Whoever fights him needs to practice kicking a five gallon bucket.
No ttrying to be insensitive
But you can throw tons of your jiu jitsu moves right out the window on this kid;
no kimuras
no armbars
no omaplatas
no legbars
no heel hooks
no ankle locks
no americanas
etc etc
im not impressed with your performance
Can you kick him?
I will play my game beneath the spin light.
Absurd Meridian
by Eugene Schelfaut on Mar 24, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Then be cool. If this thread turns into everyone trying to do bad shtick about someone with a serious infirmity, I’m closing it down.
Luke is there anyway you can send me a private message with what my infraction was?
I wanna know what I said that was over the line so as to be warned. I made one slightly insensitive remark but i didn’t think it was even close to crossing any lines. Let me know what it was so I can know what boundary line I know not to cross again.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 24, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually NM Luke
I realized what comment was deleted…
Ok the bully beatdown thing was schtick I guess. apologies
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 24, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Is there perhaps a way to add a poll to this article?
Something like:
A) He shouldn’t be allowed to fight.
B) He should fight, but it’s a bad idea.
C) We shouldn’t comment until he has his first fight.
D) It’s unfair to his opponents.
etc, etc
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 24, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet!
Thanks for the hattip!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 24, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
If that picture shows how he stands in the ring, wouldn’t he always technically be considered a downed opponent?
Thats what I was thinking
So you can’t knee him either. You can kick him to the body I guess… I think you’d have to use a diving superman punch to really hit him with a punch…
A difficult style matchup
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 24, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
likely not. This is kinda what pissed me off about his wrestling. All your move that you drill every day don’t work on him, but he drills moves on people with limbs all the time. I was never that inspired by him wrestling. More power to him for doing it, but its not a huge deal. MMA is different because you can still punch him in the face, but a lot of stuff just won’t work.
And lesser of a deal about him wrestling is he is much stronger because he has a bigger frame, but no weight of limbs. Likely a weight class or two up from where he was. But its just something to think about, the match is fair if they weight the same.
Wow thats a lot of hate. Yes it would suck to match up against him given the disadvantages to his opposition you mentioned but on the other hand, hes fighting without the use of forarms, hands, shins, or feet.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
No hate, it takes a lot to perservire without arms and legs. For someone like me who is too small for other sports like football and basketball, wrestling was the great equalizer. In that reguard its not that big of a deal that he could wrestle and given the challenges he brought to the table in a match, I am not surprised he did well. It sounds amazing on the surface, but I have a different perspective. Kid sounds like an athlete. MMA will be tough, sure he brings similar issue for other fighters the adapt too, but he has to start from scratch as far as style.
I was more impressed with a kid I wrestled in high school. As a senior, I sat on his chest (mounted him) and beat him in the face with his own hands until his nose bled. He was a freashman and had never wrestled before and frankly sucked. His senior year he won states and went on to wrestle for the sooners.
You can beat another wrestlers face in with his own hands in high school wrestling? I’m glad wrestling and basketball were played at the same time in high school.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Was wondering the same thing
can you knee him or is he always counted as a “downed fighter”?
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
Too bad.....
….punches and kicks to his head are still allowed. I’d guess as long as he’s upright he’s technically “standing” so someone could soccer kick him.
What I don't understand is.....
what weight will he fight at? There are MINIMUM weights as well as maxes for each weight class.
Honestly this could set back MMA. Imagine if he just gets brutally KO’d, that image and video is gonna be all over the media and they’re gonna have a hay day with it. Especially how much people already adore him from his wrestling and the whole “Oh well he knew what he was getting himself into.” is not gonna work.
How is this gona work??Can he wear glovesIf he were to hit someone in the eye would he do more damage than someone wearing gloves?Wrestling is one thing,and probably most grappling sports which he could probably do and do very well, but mma is different,he could get seriously hurt more than anyone else,he is at a distinct disadvantage with he lack of limbs a good right and he is down how is he gona defend himself with no arms????Look i have no problem he want to do it and more to him,but i cant see anyone taking a match against him
The joking aside
We would have made the same lauhging arguements about him competing in just grappling. But he’s shown he can move well…. It’s like trying to hold guard on a greased pig. It’d damned near impossible, and if he can get this fight on the ground, he’s got a legit shot at winning.
How would be win it in the ground? What’s to stop someone from just rolling him over and punching his face in? What submissions can he do?
And Midwest has a very good point; the last thing the sports needs at this juncture is a video of somebody KO’ing a double amputee.
People couldnt roll him over in wrestling
why could they here?
im not impressed with your performance
Yea, I understand the striking argument but no one is rolling this kid over.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
I don’t know anything about wrestling, but I’m not seeing how you couldn’t scramble out from under him fairly easily.
His body weighs way more than the guys in his weight class (who have to account for limbs), and he uses his stumps as well as hip movement and head placement to control people on the ground. There’s no point in putting him in guard, half guard is meaningless, and he just whizzes around, staying on top. It’s pretty surreal.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
even if you can’t out wrestle him over i see no way for him to defend any kind of choke. this is really the worst idea in the world.
Actually, one of the first rules of defending a choke is to pop your hips free and turn towards. He probably would have an easier time of that than anyone, since you can put hooks in on him, and anyone in his weight class is likely too small to get a body triangle on him.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
A triangle would work
so would an arm triangle
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 24, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s not exactly an easy target to punch… it’s such a downward angle, it’d be hard to get a lot of power. I’d imagine his chin is no different than anyone elses for his frame’s size, and he’ll be getting hit by smaller framed people. The main thing is dealing with the kicks. But even then, it’s pretty easy to move from kicks when they are really your only threat. I think he can legitimately get this fight on the ground…. you really can’t hold him down
Makes no sense
Can’t punch. Can’t kick. He’s always a downed opponent. You can’t grapple against him unless you go for the choke, which he cannot defend.
Who would be dick enough to even punch the guy who can barely defend himself?
I agree.
This makes no sense. He wants an MMA career? That’s fine, I got no problem with that, but I fail to see how he could actually hope to compete, let alone win.
ME
thats who. There’s money on the table that he’s trying to take out of my pocket.
On another note. He can wrestle… But I bet his takedowns would be WORTHLESS in MMA
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 24, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
If he wants to fight, let him. I’d do it. I think it would be an easy payday. Most takedowns I’ve seen in MMA involve wrapping yourself around the other fighter – how can he do that?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 24, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
No offense dude… If you’re gonna put yourself in a position to kick my ass for a payday… I don’t care if you’re handicapped i’m not gonna hold back… not even a little. I’ll just try and make it quick and painless.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 24, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
If he wants to be treated equally, I’ll treat him as I would any other fighter. It’s the douchey outcome of egalitarianism.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 24, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
What state is this in? I did not see that Georgia denied him a license the first read through.
That's great, but how does it affect Lyoto Machida?
This isn’t a sanctioned event is it? This is in Alabama where there is no commission? This guy shouldn’t be allowed to fight for obvious reasons.
its always blown me away that a state with such rich boxing tradition doesnt have a commission
im not impressed with your performance
Wow. This is a bad idea. No good can come of this.
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 24, 2009 3:54 PM EDT reply actions
What's going to happen is...
Someone will finish him by punches, and then he will end up as a highlight film for all the bodies not currently sanctioning MMA.
No good can come of this.
How does the match not go to decision?
how does he finish a match? not strikes, not submissions.
how do you stop him? you cant kick him unless he’s jumping in the air i guess? you cant do any submissions other than a choke.
props to the guy for this sort of thing and i wanna say i’ve seen him wrestle and he was plucky….but ah no
You just can’t kick the head - kicking the body is perfectly acceptable. If I were fighting him, I would keep my distance and use kicks to keep him away, like Jardine/Liddell, only with Chuck crawling.
I wonder who’ll fight him – there’s no upside. You win, you beat a cripple. You lose, you lost to a cripple. You’re seen either as a dick or a loser.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 24, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll fight a cripple
Come here dude… This is for 2 G’s baby…
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 24, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok this was a little insensative
but its a joke…
everybody here respects the dude for what he’s been able to accomplish. Amputee’s come with my job and I’m lucky to not know how shitty that is but was this really that out of bounds???
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 24, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I always say if you’re going to make fun of a certain demographic, at least make it funny, because they can’t chase you if they’re laughing too hard. And if someone doesn’t find this a bit funny, their loss. Kyle has accomplished a lot in his time, but this is unrealistic. It reminds me of the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 24, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like a Ken Shamrock joint.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
Sorry if I come off as a Dick but..
How the heck does he win? This has nothing but bad news written all over it.
youtube him...
it looks like he’s got a pretty decent arm triangle/darce type grip. he also has enough limb executing armbars.
From his wiki entry:
He graduated from Collins Hill High School with a wrestling record of 35 wins, 16 losses and a 3.7 GPA.
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
by Chris Nelson on Mar 24, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not so bullish about this idea, but I probably would have said the same thing about him wrestling.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
It’s a bad idea, but I see no reason to baby him – he’s an adult, he’s aware if the consequences, let him fight. Worked for these guys:
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 24, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
He should be able to do it, but I wouldn’t advise it.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 24, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
those guys were competing against other handicapped people…
by George Lucas on Mar 25, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Big difference in wrestling: No strikes
Totally changes the situation.
Sadly, I think this one is like the well-meaning highschool football lineman with no legs: It’s just not possible for a sport to accomodate every physical handicap. In this case, traditional MMA rules would have to be so drastically perverted as to render it a different sport altogether.
No, someone with one arm, I could see. And there’s Tre Teligman, of course, who is missing a pectoral, which doesn’t seem to have an effect on his performance. But missing most legs renders the distinction between a “downed” fighter meaningless and eliminates way too many offensive maneuvers for the opponent.
It’s kind of like hiring somebody grossly obese to be the goaltender in a hockey game.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
I see your point, and you’re right to an extent. But that’s only if we take the route that MMA is supposed to be an “all things being equal” fight; it’s possible to legitimately take a “things are not equal, but we have no idea what will happen so that makes it fun” view. Seriously, since no one has ever fought someone like this, who knows what would happen? He might get KTFO, or he might grind out a decision. Either way, we’ll know. I can’t see it being a life-threatening situation, any more than MMA is generally, so what’s the harm in letting him try? Then, once we know, we can make an informed, knowledgable decision in the future. Hell, make him fight a closed, amatuer fight in front of judges first if it makes everyone feel more secure in the decision.
Also, I take exception to the last analogy. A grossly obese person in a hockey net would be an epic fail, and would be scored on repeatedly by virtue of the fact that they are not an athlete attempting to play an athletic game. This guy obviously IS an athlete, but one with a disability. We can’t say he WILL epically fail, even if the odds are against him, because we don’t know what his best against someone else’s best would look like.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
There's Already a One-Legged Fighter: Franky van Hove
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 24, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I wouldn’t go that far, considering a really fat dude could just sit there and block the net, thus accomplishing his role. It’s a little different, but I agree that traditional rules would have to be changed in order to accomodate him. He’s an adult, and he can chose to fight if he wants, but I really don’t see how he can be successful. Maybe it’s a principle thing and it’s not about being successful, but competing in the first place? But even then, it’s like having him compete in an olympic judo or boxing match. Can he compete? Maybe. I suppose anything is possible. But it’s neither necessary or appropriate.
That’s the point I was making above: the competition is the thing, on principle, because we have no idea what would happen. I don’t see any compelling argument (hyperbole aside) that the guy would be at a more serious risk than any other fighter. Hell, I’d put his safety risk at somewhere below Jonathan Goulet. So with that said, the guy deserves to see just how high he can go. I don’t know that it’s the same as having a random person with a handicap compete in the Olympics: he’s obviously a decent grappler, and he’s not trying to jump right in against the best of the business. I don’t know that he’ll have a long career – heck, maybe he only wants to fight once just to prove he could do it – but he totally deserves the chance to try it.
(Almost wrote “try his hand at it” then realized that would be wrong…)
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
I think you're underestimating how disgustingly fat some people get
There are dudes that weigh 1000 lbs that could lay on their side and block the net completely
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 24, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
They also wouldnt be able to get onto the ice through the gap in the boards
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 24, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
or actively work to finish the fight
Maybe, by a stretch, I could see him grinding out a decision. More likely I see him getting hurt.
Am I a huge asshole for thinking someone without MMA experience could have a really good chance at beating Kyle?
How do you intelligently defend strikes when you crawl/walk on all fours? All due respect to Kyle, he has overcome significant adversity in his life, but how does this make sense? I understand he could draw for the “Freak Show” aspect, but is that really what we want for this sport? i know it’s not up to me or “us”, its up to Kyle, the sanctioning body and the promoter, I just find it sad. If he does fight, I hope he isn’t badly hurt.
All day. In the Larry King interview he says he can use them like daggers.
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
by Chris Nelson on Mar 24, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
and that freshman kid says, “and they really hurt”
I’m sure his “daggers” will be just as effective as elbows + fists + knees + shins + feet. This is just in regards to offensive striking Even solid BJJ guys have trouble defending strikes, and they are not in Kyles physical situation.
No disrespect, but this can’t make for an even match.
He has a zero percent chance of Knocking someone out seeing as how he cant hit your face, and he has a zero chance of getting a submission off seeing as how he has no hands to grab a hold of you.
I just don’t see any possible way of him getting a win. whoever he is fighting against is going to pick up the easiest pay check of his life.
The only possible solution is to allow him to fight other disabled guys with similar issues. That would make the most sense IMHO.
I see a lot of RNC's in his future.
Hopefully that is all that happens to him. No way is he ever going pro. Amateur is ok for the experience but he should stick to grappling.
On a side note, I know a grappler who has the same issue with one arm and he is a beast on the mat.
WAIT ONE DAMN SECOND
you people were pissed, PISSED, that kevin burns said he couldn’t close his left had to make a punch when he eye gouged anthony johnson. and we had every right to be pissed. i still cant believe how gentlemanly AJ walked right up to him after the fight and gave kevin a hug. how can someone who considers themselves a professional fighter, NOT make a fist to through a punch.
NOW, we have people applauding an armless-legless man who wants to try MMA, that doesn’t even have hands to clasp to make said fist to throw ANY sort of strike.
Lets try and show some damn consistency here people.
Burns was capable of injuring someone else. Maynard is only capable of injuring himself.
by George Lucas on Mar 25, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Maynard can’t accidentally jab his fingers into anyone’s eye if he doesn’t even have fingers…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 25, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting that the option to give someone with a disability who has already overcome tremendous obstacles in his life the benefit of the doubt is in dead last in the poll. Forget waiting until after he tries to see if Maynard can even do this – the majority of people are straight up saying he shouldn’t be allowed to fight, or that it’s unfair to his opponents (who will know exactly what they’re getting into when they step in against him, and have the option not to sign on).
Honestly, who are any of us to tell Maynard that he can’t fight MMA if he and his trainers honestly believe he can?
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
He cannot FIGHT
Look I am as reasonable as the next dude, and I think I do a good job of being even keeled in most conversations here. I realize my opinion is only an opinion and not necessarily correct. But I draw the line here.
This kid cannot win a fight. No way, no how. This is absolutely INSANE that people are fighting for his right to fight. He wants to participate in a contact sport fellas. He has no arms or legs to strike with. He has no arms or legs to defend from strikes with. He has no arms or legs to take his oponent down. He has no arms or legs to submit anyone with. The kid is going to get hurt and hurt bad, and all to prove some non-existant point. Anyone who supports this is nuts in my eyes. Sorry, I just can’t see it any other way.
by Nick Travaglini on Mar 25, 2009 7:46 AM EDT reply actions
Kind of reminded me...
…of this movie.
I don’t know how he could succeed here, but mad props to him for giving it a go.
Of course, I’m a sucker for stories about hanicapped people overcoming obstacles (like Prince Randian, or Willie McQueen), so I may not be entirely objective here.
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