Jon Jones (8-0) vs. Jake O'Brien (11-2-0) at UFC 100
HT: TheGarv.com
almost 3 years ago
Nick Thomas
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that'll be an interesting match
O’Brien should have the wrestling acumen to prevent Jones from putting on a greco throw showcase but Jones’ striking could still give him fits.
O’Brien’s strength will be a test for the rangy Jones though. Bonnar’s one of the bigger Light Heavies but O’Brien was a legit heavyweight.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
WHAT!? What kind of match is this? Jake O’Brien is one of the most boring fighters that I have ever witnessed. Jon Jones just had one of the best showings on PPV, and they give him Jake O’Brien? I was hoping for Thiago Silva.
lightheavy?
is jake moving down in weight? its not going to help. he’s going to get manhandled much like he did against cain.
O'Brien
made his first drop to 205 at UFC 94 when he relieved Christian Wellisch of his UFC contract. This will therefore be his second light heavyweight bout.
I'm almost positive that was a heavyweight fight
by flassasin24 on Mar 14, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
This match making is not full of win here
seriously… wut??
I don’t know the different styles of wrestling well… but can a greco guy like jones keep the fight off the mat against a … errr… free style wrestler like Obrien???
Important distinction, for those who aren't familar with the different styles
of wrestling. Collegiate and Freestyle wrestling are largely built around the idea of attacking the legs of your opponents, in order to wrest control of the hips. Greco-Roman wrestling exclusively utilizes upper body manipulation to achieve the same effect, with body locks being the most recognized method of achieving this outcome.
Greco-Roman is really full of nuance. The maneuvers are based mostly on applied leverage, and contesting those points through slight manipulation and misdirection. With Collegiate and Freestyle wrestling, the maneuvers are executed with speed and power, and you’ll always hear guys talk about ‘finishing’ a shot, which usually indicates that there wasn’t enough speed or power involved in the shot to effect a takedown.
The point? Since GR wrestling relies on so much nuance and misdirection, it’s a bit steeper curve to climb to a reasonable skill level, especially defensively. Collegiate and Freestyle wrestling have basically two defense mechanisms for preventing a takedown, those being the whizzer and the sprawl. The whizzer is really simple to learn, and the sprawl isn’t much harder, but it does require explosion to execute properly. There’s a little technique to both, but really they’re fairly simple to learn, and both translate beautifully to the MMA landscape. A tall guy, with long legs like Jones has an extreme advantage when he sprawls on his opponent, since he is able to apply that much more leverage at the point of contest (his hips) in opposition to the shot.
So my basic summary is this: A fighter with a body like Jones is at a significant advantage in the leg-based takedown game because of his long legs and explosiveness. The nuance of the GR/bodylock game is far more difficult to ‘pick up on the fly,’ so he’ll likely maintain a significant edge in that department, as well (this is assuming that Jones is, in fact, a GR guy..which I can’t find evidence either way in my quick Google search. But even if he’s not, Jones has displayed a willingness and ability to utilize upper body manipulation to score big takedowns in his MMA career).
In the end, the most important part is this: Jon Jones is a lot of fun to watch.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Mar 14, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I knew there were differences between styles of wrestling, but I never understood them before. Rec’d.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 15, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Awesome explanation. I do wonder if the damage dealt is par with the energy exerted in a lot of his techniques. I think it may also be some concessions to open up the rest of his not fully developed game. Just to keep control.
Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...
Regarding damage dealt from takedowns,
I really can’t speak too much to this. I can say with absolute confidence that the double overhook slam he pulled on Bonnar is the kind of shot that can and will knock the wind right out of you, because you simply can’t see it coming, especially if you’re not at the very least familiar with sumo/GR/sambo/judo body throws in their native application. Double overhooks is not an inherently advantageous position, since you’re giving away inside control, but there are obviously ways to make it work.
As to energy expended, you hit on a really interesting, and often overlooked point. To score a takedown, in any fashion (utilizing wrestling maneuvers) you have to burn an extreme amount of energy. Judo is like the anti-wrestling, where the whole idea is to ‘catch’ your opponent off-balance and put him down with a trip or step-through hip throw. Wrestling is all about enforcing your will on your opponent, which costs a lot in the way of energy.
A commonly known, and heavily debated example which illustrates just how much energy gets burned on a shot (successful or failed) is Rashad vs. Tito. When Tito grabbed the fence, he was rightfully docked a point on the judge’s cards. Why? Anyone who’s seen the sports science shows knows that a double-leg slam produces as much translated force (around 2,000 lbs) as a heavyweight boxer’s perfectly delivered power punch. Rashad, however, burned waaaaay more energy than a boxer would burn throwing one punch, and his efforts were about to simultaneously:
A) Smash Tito into the ground, delivering a literal ton of translated force, and
B) Achieve utterly dominant position after the damage had been dealt.
Instead? The fight kept going where it was, and Rashad’s tank was empty from all the exertion. Did this cost him the fight? It’s really hard to say one way or the other, but there really is no question that it changed the landscape of the fight significantly from that point on.
It’s much easier to defend a takedown, and far less costly in terms of energy, than it is to achieve a takedown (at least using standard wrestling techniques). This is a component of the proliferation of the ‘sprawl and brawl’ style we’ve seen from so many accomplished strikers in recent years. If they can learn to effectively sprawl out the majority of shots, they’ll end up with more energy than their opponent, and also be provided with a few advantageous striking opportunities along the way.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Interesting breakdown. Very much appreciated. Rec’d.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 15, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You could put Jones in there against Lionheart Blevins...
…I’d still pay to watch. That kid is boom goes the dynamite.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
I was hoping
to see Jones get matched up against Eric Schafer. Bonnar’s jiu-jitsu is good, and Gusmao’s was supposed to be, but I want to see Jones against someone that actually uses their bjj, like Schafer.
I'm interested...
to see him against O’Brien as it’s someone who is going to be completely focused on trying to put Jones on his back and keep him there.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 14, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
It’s a good matchup in terms of developing Jones further.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 14, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
But there’s huge downside. A lay n Pray victory by O’brien would suck all the wind out of Jones. Even a decision victory for Jones, there’s such a strong possibility that Obrien is going to perform a massive lay’n’pray festival for three rounds.
As far as upside, I don’t see that much other than a potential victory.
JOB is a fine gatekeeper, and if (when) Jones wins I’d like to see him agains the loser of Cane/Cantwell.
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 14, 2009 2:57 PM EDT reply actions
The Herring fight was O’Brien’s infamous LNP victory, but I think he gets a bad rap for it, being that it’s his only victory that’s ever been shown on a televised card (with the other two being losses to Arlovski and Valasquez). That point is, ironically, not made to consider him a legitimate threat to Jones, but rather as explanation why there should be little concern that poor lil Jon Jones gets pinned under Mighty Jake O’Brien for 15 minutes.
Jones over O’Brien via TKO; just like Arlovski and Valasquez before him.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Fantastic matchmaking
This is exactly the kind of matchmaking you want to see for developing fighters. If Jones can outwrestle O’Brien we’ll know for sure that his wrestling is truly dominant. If he can’t, he’ll be forced to push his still raw striking. I really think this a perfect fight for a prospect.
by FRANKIE on Mar 14, 2009 7:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree wholeheartedly. While I understand the frustration and concern some people have expressed, I think this is the way the UFC is probably viewing this fight (development fight). Jones is really young, so I think it’s fantastic that they’re bringing him along slowly (e.g. Huerta). And in that process they’re going to have to put him against a big strong wrestler who doesn’t pose much of a threat on his feet or with his BJJ acumen (i.e. largely one dimensional), and O’Brien fits that bill perfectly.
I really do understand why people don’t like this fight. Jones is exciting as hell, and this fight could be boring. But like you said, he’s young and green, and I hate seeing green fighters who could be special getting thrown to the wolves. It was my biggest problem with PRIDE and I hate it when I see the UFC do the same thing (which, to their credit, is rare).
That being said, I don’t want to see fighters protected to the level they are in boxing. One of the things I truly love about MMA is the fact that a loss, or even several losses, isn’t the end of your career. I want that viewpoint to stick around forever.
Huerta wasn't such a big fan of his 'slow' roll.
Which is why he’s in Hollywood now and not the UFC.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.


















