Update on the Ferrari Crash Involving Charles "Mask" Lewis
by Nick Thomas on Mar 13, 2009 11:54 PM EDT
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Jeffrey David Kirby, 51, registered a 0.13 blood alcohol level two hours after the fatal crash, said Deputy District Attorney Jason Baez
"It appears that Mr. Kirby lost control of his Porsche and collided into the Ferrari, causing Mr. Lewis to also lose control and crash into the pole," Baez said. "If the first contact hadn’t happened, the Ferrari would not have lost control."Such a tragedy. More at ocregister.com.
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Let me ask this...
From a legal standpoint, since “Mask” was rumored to also be in a high speed “race”, if that’s what we’re calling it, with this drunk guy, that seems to make me believe this guy will have a pretty solid way to get this bumped down significantly.
I’m no legal expert though, I’d love to hear if anyone has any insight on that.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
From the article:
Prosecutors could also later add a street-racing enhancement to the charges if the investigation reveals that the two drivers were racing as they sped northbound on Jamboree Road near Bison Avenue.
Baez said that skid marks at the scene and other evidence indicate that both drivers were traveling at high speeds when the initial contact took place.
So, this guy would also get charged with street racing. I wonder how that affects the manslaughter charge though. Since both participants were actively “participating” in the street racing, albeit, this guy was bombed… I wonder what happens with the bigger charge.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 13, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s pretty ballsy to say he wouldn’t have crashed if he had not been bumped – if the skidmarks show they were racing then it is impossible to say what might have happened eventually. Hell, without the contact, either or both might have plowed into something or someone of more significance than a tree.
All that said, lock this lush up and throw away the key.
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 13, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions
Correct subo and good point. I’m an auto claims department supervisor here in Austin . It is highly unlikey they can reconstruct the accident this quickly from the physical evidence alone. Generally, to prove something like that you’ll need to involve an engineer who specializes in accident reconstruction and it usually take several weeks to get their report back. The statement in the article above is almost certainly just the opinion of the District Attorney or someone in the police department . Police are not accident reconstruction experts (most departments dont require a college degree)
Troy145 below makes a great point. Mask is awesome and it’s all this guys fault. C’mon now! It takes two to tango when it comes to racing, which they were clearly doing. At least this guy thought he was only risking his own life. Mask had his girl in the car….that is more irresponsible.
And anybody wanna bet that Mask was drunk too?
And anybody wanna bet that Mask was drunk too?
According to people close to him, Mask didn’t drink. Show a little respect, the man died two days ago.
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
by Chris Nelson on Mar 13, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Asking if anyone wants to bet...
is a bit out of line. But it isn’t an absurd question. If he was engaging in an illegal street race (which he may or may not have been) with another guy who was drunk…it isn’t out of the realm of acceptability to me to wonder if the same could have been going on with Mask.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 13, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Would be nice to at least wait a day or two. Today is supposed to be something for Mask according to the TapouT guys.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Asking questions is not disrespectful...
the situation is obviously strange. I see that he supposedly didn’t drink alcohol. Still…it’s a situation that left certain questions.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 13, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting comments above. If Mask didn’t drink at all, this becomes somewhat of a very tough case to call.
If Mask didn’t drink, and he was street racing with this drunk idiot, yes.. Mask deserves some of the blame for the danger he put himself in, but this other guy was street racing… while completely drunk off his ass. There in lies a case that could have some major consequences.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 13, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Its pretty unfair to call this guy so messed up
then turn around and talk about how great Mask was and how he was potentially just making a mistake.
if we’re going to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, we need to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
im not impressed with your performance
Mask didn’t kill anyone and as far as we know was not drunk
by EazyEismydad on Mar 13, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
just because he didnt kill anyone
doesnt mean he couldnt have. his behavior, drunk or not, was incredibly negligent to human life, and it could have just as easily been him who wound up killing the other guy.
im not impressed with your performance
by troy145 on Mar 13, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
on the racing
For one thing… I drive an incredibly modified fast corvette… and I’m very against street racing. That being said, there have been times where I have been on the highway and then something else will pull up next to me and try to play. My car literally does 60-100 in less than 5 seconds… so a quick race of just playing around can go VERY fast at those speeds. A lot of people hear they were doing 100 miles an hour and equate that to their cars where they are going 70…75…80…82…83… and slowly climbing. But in those fast cars, it’s near instant.
Now that doesn’t excuse them, but people need to realize those cars are capable of hitting 100 miles an hour in less than 10 seconds from a STOP. So going from a roll, they could have been driving completely fine for hours and had only 4 seconds in which they were speeding.
post was not at all about me bragging
I just read it, and realized i could have been bragging, I was just trying to help put into perspective how fast a race can get out of hand in dealing with cars as fast as theirs.
This guy should spend some time behind bars but he didn’t kill Mask. They both made mistakes and illegally street-raced. No one forced Mask to risk his life and endanger others. Very sad for the families and friends involved.
I’m not sure what you mean? I only assumed that Mask willingly raced. I’m going to get flamed for this on an MMA forum but I don’t have much pity for people who recklessly risk the lives of others. This guy should go to prison and if Mask survived he should have too. The real tragedy is the girlfriend.
Pretty big assumption coloring everything don’t you think? Why not wait until more is said and let people mourn without accusation?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
As someone who has been run off the road before, sometimes it is not…
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
if your getting run off of an empty road
wouldnt it be wise to hit the brakes?
im not impressed with your performance
Unless your car is made of lightweight materials...
that car if it hit right could rip apart at 50mph…it’s a sports car…not a volvo
you ever see what a standard 35mph crash test does to a vehicle? And that’s even not hitting a pole where the impact would be localized into a small area.
From the full article:
In California, Kirby has at least seven minor traffic violations on his driving record and a 2002 conviction for driving while intoxicated, court and Department of Motor Vehicle records show. The Highway Patrol officer who arrested him in the 2002 case described him in a police report as "loud" and "whining."
In that case, Kirby initially denied having anything to drink, even as he stumbled getting out of his car, according to court documents. Kirby later acknowledged having a single glass of wine, although the officer wrote in a report that he could smell alcohol as he approached the car.
As they drove to jail, Kirby told the officer that he "shouldn’t be picking on people with money," according to the police report. Kirby also informed the officer that his father was a retired CHP officer and had told him to refuse any tests, the report notes.
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
separate issue
This guy was drunk. It’s completely unrelated to the fact they were street racing. Now he didn’t intentionally kill mask. But he was engaged in drunk driving, and resulted in him killing someone, that should be vehicular manslaughter.
Just because mask was doing something illegal… in my eyes, doesn’t make a difference. If someone is illegally buying drugs and the drug dealer murders him… the drug dealer should still get charged with murder right? Just because that guy was illegally buying drugs, doesn’t lessen the crim commited.
No...
but it does place an amount of responsibility on the deceased. And I’m not trying to cross the line here or anything, it’s very sad that Mask died. But it’s not like guys don’t die fairly often street racing. Obviously the drunk guy is a huge douche in this case…but in your drug example…there is something to be said for “if you weren’t taking part in a dangerous illegal activity (buying drugs) you wouldn’t have been in the situation in which you were killed.”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 13, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
in lawyer talk i believe the term is ‘assumption of risk’. if you knowingly and willingly engage in a dangerous activity it does affect liability to some degree
for example, you leave the bar with your friend whom you saw finish off 5 beers, he gets into an accident and injures you. His insurance still pays for your medical bills but the amount you can collect for punitive damages goes down greatly based on your ‘assumption of risk’.
Or if you didn’t wear a seatbelt and got into an accident that wasn’t your fault. Not your fault, other guy is liable but the at-fault guys’ insurance carrier may not even pay all of your medical bills as your own negligence increased the severity of the injuries.
These examples are civil and not criminal in nature but it is similiar. It all comes down to what you can convince a jury of. I’ve seen the pictures of his car. Defense attorney for whatshisface will have an engineers report that convincingly shows mask was speeding….not to mention Masks girlfriend’s testimony…maybe. I’m not suggesting he’ll get off by any means, just suggesting he may not be punished to the fullest extent of the law….Of course if he really has prior DUIs most of my argment could be moot.
Mask is not an innocent victim and easily could have pevented his own death. (I am not saying he deserved to die either)
This is exactly what I was getting to in the above postings. Assumption of Risk could bring down the manslaughter charge.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 13, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Was probably
.15 at the time of the crash. Still pretty coherent, but probably shouldn’t be driving.
Creator of the FightMatrix rating system.
At a minimum
When i’m pretty sure you’re undershooting it here
He was twice the legal limit in Cali. I think its more likely he was closer to 2 1/2 to 3 times the limit and at the point of utter irresponsibility.
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 13, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
.15 – .17 is coherent, but definitely way drunk. He was likely bombed.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 13, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yah
And your second DUI is a felony in California anyway isn’t it? This is his second and a pretty egregious DUI .13 two hours later and he killed someone to boot. That manslaughter charge is sticking unless he pleads guilty to reckless endangerment, gross misconduct of a motor vehicle, felony DUI and a host of other charges.
And his alcohol level at the time of the wreck – from a longtime heavy drinker – was probably closer to .18-.20 assuming he had stopped drinking 15-30 minutes before he got in the car.
metabolizing 1 1/2 drinks + per hour for 2 1/2 – 3 hours is 4+ drinks. 4 drinks in 2 hours will generally put somebody right around .08.
So its likely he burned off nearly .07 – .10 before the cops tested him
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, this is fairly accurate, it may even be more.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Mar 13, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
51 years old and this guy still acts like he is in college.
Hope when he gets out of jail in his 70s he has learned a lesson or two.
“Kirby told the officer that he "shouldn’t be picking on people with money,” according to the police report."(from a quote above me) What a scumbag.
He has money so he should be allowed to drink and drive? I dont get it. I hope they throw the book at him.
Mask got more hate when he was alive then anyone I know about. People hate tapout He dies and now all of a sudden he is an Icon? Funny how quickly people change their tune.
by WARMMA on Mar 13, 2009 7:14 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
People hated Mask just because they thought it was silly or they hated TapouT’s designs, or more likely the people who generally wore them. Charles Lewis, that man was an icon and helped this sport in the US more than probably anybody else.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
I couldn’t (and still can’t) stand Tapout’s gimmick, I also thought the show was awful and I am certainly not a fan of their clothing. That said there is no denying how much they have helped the sport from sponsorships alone. It’s not a matter of changing my tune, it’s a matter of death putting things into perspective.
by Brad Ackerson on Mar 13, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
not sure if it matters
Does anyone know how these 2 men were at all friends? It would be hard to not to show some mercy for Kirby if he were Mask’s rich racing buddy.
Id have a harder time showing mercy for Mask
if Mask was dumb enough to keep buddies like this guy hanging around
im not impressed with your performance
anybody hear if the mask had anything in his system?
Regardless if this guy was drunk or not, Mask’s raced the drunk guy and ended up DEAD! It was a mistake and it was a huge one! He put himself in that situation unfortunately, the guy being drunk doesn’t make anything better or worse. It’s something that could have been avoided and it took two people involved in the incident and now one is gone forever…
Don’t do these types of things people…
Seems that there are alot of assumptions all across the board here. How do we know they were in fact “racing”. Because a police officer witnessed headlights coming towards him? How fast is a high rate of speed? Maybe the guy was chasing mask for some reason. Everyone seems to be stating quite a few facts that are not yet set in stone.
first of all
its a police officer. i dont know how many years on the force he has, but its not that hard for some one who has spent any considerable amount of time in law enforcement to judge speed based on headlights. The cop has no reason to testify dishonestly and therefore it is very reasonable to assume that his testimony is reliable.
Aside from that, they have established high speeds by the actual wreckage, the skidmarks, and i’d be willing to bet the other racer and girlfriends own testimonies or statements.
Next, it would be very, very improbably that Mask was getting chased, and if he was, it was probably because he got mixed up in some bad mojo. I dont think that that would the case. I mean, can you think of any reason you’d be getting chased? Sure there is the occasional thug or psychotic on the highway chasing a dude, but this guys criminal history indicates that he’s just a crappy driver, drunk, etc, not a wierdo/thug type.
People have to assume things in these situations, its the only way we can make sense of things and learn from them in the time between.
im not impressed with your performance
I thought the investigation was “ongoing”, says so in the article linked at the top of the post. It may turn out that Mask was indeed “racing”, even though the police department has yet to classify this as a “drag race” I tend not to assume until I have more facts in front of me and the scene investigation is done and an official report is produced. With small amounts of information currently available, many here have latched onto those tidbits and spun convoluted stories. Those stories may well be true, and Mask seems like the time that would get a little crazy, but I will wait till I hear for sure.
Weird shit does happen, I’ve been chased before when I was driving on the highway and minding my own business. I was on the same highway for 300 miles, going the speed limit, when some wacko started fucking with me. That stuff does happen. And as I said before, what is a high rate of speed for that road? So the police officer could determine that they were…say…traveling at 20 over the speedlimit based off of headlights? I’d like to hear the witness statements.
Regardless, the other driver should get smacked, and smacked hard. Drunk driving is horrible, and yet another example of how the drunk survives where the other person dies. He should spend a nice long time in a cell.
It's a Ferarri...
they are designed to crumple in accidents. They can split apart at slower speeds than a regular passenger car.
That said there is no doubt logistically that he had to be speeding, but how much seems to be getting blown out of proportion.
I've also heard about Ferarri...
designing their cars to split in two in an accident since it is a mid/rear engine vehicle.
It’s certainly realistic to think that they would have the passanger compartment split from the engine compartment in the event of a crash. In fact structurally that would be the weakest point of the frame of the car and if the tree were to hit the weakest point it could separate at a relatively low speed.
What a load of bullshit… some people don’t even have one good first name, and this guy gets three???
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 14, 2009 4:11 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't know who did it
I don’t want to. But it warms my heart that a picture of Kirby the pink puffball would get a rec on an MMA blog.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 14, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
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