I don’t know if shitty kickboxing is the future of MMA on the whole, but it’s certainly the future (or present, as it seems) of mid-level UFC guys headhunting for bonuses.

labels this as bad kickboxing then yes I would rather watch bad kickboxing over regular kickboxing/K-1/Boxing.

A print journalist doesn’t want us to go mainstream! And those guys are doing so well! None of them are going out of business! They totally have their finger on the pulse of America!

Atleast give a little bit of credit to Anderson Silva and Chuck Liddell. Two of the most dominant champs killed guys with great defense and perfectly-timed hands.

Bonus strategy is also a big problem and certainly worth reiteration.

The 96 card seems lacking in fighters with submission prowess. Sure there was Jim Miller and Gonzaga on the card, but both were shut down, leaving mostly wrestlers and strikers for the rest of the card. I while striking seems to be a trend in the mid-level fighters, I think the lack of submissions on this card has more to do with the card itself, rather than a trend…just a statistic anomoly.

I think things should be left to turn out the way they turn out. Isn’t that the whole point?

Or sub every guy you fight, you become “boring”, “elusive”, and “unmarketable”.

Jorge Gurgel’s submission skills are second to none but did he ever use them? Serra’s jitz is awesome as well yet he seems reluctant to stay on the ground too long.

Just because the audience want a stand up war doesn’t mean you entertain them at the cost of the very essence of the sport. We’ll always have those neanderthals waiting for someone’s head to fly into the stands. MMA needs to be appreciated in its purest form.

Submissions are an art form are far more satisfying for me than a flurry of poorly timed bombs at the end of which one guy slumps against the cage. Thats not what the UFC should stand for.

God knows I love a good KO but theres a difference between someone like Anderson Silva KO’ing someone and say someone like Leben.

It’s a matter of matchmaking and less so a matter of how the sport is evolving.
The randomness of striking (throw vs landing) and sheer volume of attempts (at throwing a strike) means statistically you’re going to get a lot more finishes that way.
Everyone is training BJJ now so catching and finishing people with consistency is a LOT more harder.

If anything it makes me love submissions even more because I know how absolutely difficult they are to get considering the competition at the elite level.

My only concern is giving out FOTN often times for the fights that deteriorate to kickboxing matches especially for those fighters who do have a ground game (Davis/Lytle). They need to try and give out FOTN to those matches that mix everything and when they don’t have an event with that then divvy out that bonus to all the fighters and remind them that this is MMA not kickboxing.

A revolt against the awful wrestlers mucking up North American MMA! Straight out of their college wrestling programs with 6-8 months of poor muay thai training and they get thrust into the cage. Just ruins an otherwise beautiful sport, in my opinion.

And that’s to say nothing of the rampant douchebaggery seemingly ingrained in 3 out of every 4 TUF generation fighters.

As for a solution? There really isn’t one. The direction of the sport can’t be forced, otherwise it will fall apart. Unfortunately, this means I’ll have to put up with these boring, ogreish kickboxing wrestlers.

I’ll just cling that much harder to the Fedor’s, Anderson’s, Big Nog’s, and Maia’s of the world.

I think its a UFC problem rather than an MMA problem. At the top of the heap there are still plenty of exciting fighters who can pull a sweet submission. I would like to see stats on the % of submissions on the top 3 fights on a card.
The problem is that the type of fighters that the UFC continues to keep at the lower skill levels. I thought the Chris Lytle/Marcus Davis fight is a prime example.
There are tons of copies of these guys. "loves to bang’ etc.
Poor boxers, worse kickboxers, just enough wrestling to keep most fights standing.
These fights often make for decent openning fights provided that the rest of the fights show off a bit more skill.

To me, this argument is analagous to saying chicks w/ big boobs are better/worse than chicks w/ a great ass.

Over the decades there has been an ebb and flow of what is currently considered most beautiful or ideal. Some may argue for boobs, others for ass, others for a perfect blend of the two. Generally, society will have a consensus on the subject and it manifests itself in what pictures get displayed in playboy or what bathing suits are sold, etc

These trends also vary from country to country.

Let’s not lose sight of what is most important: That we should be grateful that today there is more access to tits & ass than ever before. Can’t we all agree to this?

I’d agree that it has been a lot of bad boxing or bad kick boxing in the last little while, but I think it’s all a part of the evolution of MMA. I still don’t think we’ve seen the best possible MMA fighter out there (GSP and Machida are examples of where MMA is going). It’s all growing pains. The sport is still so young. Boxing today looks nothing like it did in the early years. Given time, the MMA fighter will be seen as the utlimate combat sport fighter. I honestly think it will take a full on generation at least for MMA to be truly accepted. And by that, I mean the dinosours of boxing will have to die out (literally).

No submission this time, just get over it. And why are we reporting words from mma noobs now? Of course it’s bad boxing, it’s mma, you got to defend take down and shit, that’s why you can’t… float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. A non issue.

Seems to me MMA guys can hold their own with the supposed best kickboxers in the world. So maybe just “kickboxing” is a more appropriate label.

Nate calling for Aoki pants as a way to prevent this so called “bad kickboxing”. No mention of them in here so far..

part of the reality that with good submission defense, many guys are reticent to give up top position when going for a submission….it’s also part of the scoring: for so long the “top position” has allowed the lay n’ pray guy to win….so the game has adjusted to give more credence/points/dominance to position, rather than the guy on bottom who goes for submission after submission. dream was a great example of submission attempts etc.

MMA isn’t kick boxing. The fact that they can take the other man down, punch him in the head if/when they knock him down, among other things makes MMA striking DIFFERENT than other forms of combat.

You have the smarty pants quoted from the Columbus paper talking about how bad their boxing technique is, and the fact is you can’t box like a boxer if your opponent has the option to take you down.

The way fighters are paid is going to effect the way they fight, but at the end of the day there is submission of the night bonuses to be had, and 1/2 of your pay is winning for nearly every fighter. So they are going to give it their all and do what they do best.

wasn’t impressed with the brawling (“90 percent of it is boxing, and they’re bad boxers”) and said it will never go mainstream unless they clean it up

Again, 2 things. This isn’t boxing, so of course the fighters boxing technique isn’t going to look the best. It’s like someone going to a cricket match and criticizing the pitching in comparison to baseball. 2nd, it’s already mainstream.

But grappling ins’t all about submissions. People are crying about how MMA is becoming kickboxing and MMA being dominated by wrestlers at the same time.. Can you see a problem here?

Besides if the fighters aren’t submitting, it’s they’re own fault. Ask Maia how he thinks teh jits is ineffective.

“That three of those cards took place in the past four months is at a minimum noteworthy, at worst disconcerting.”

The stats above leave out the fact that 20% of all MMA events ever were held in the last 4 months. Honestly, I saw one in a public restroom the other day.

The rules and regulations make it more difficult for a submission specialist. Also, the majority of fans just want to see someone get knocked out. Boxing and kick-boxing matches are much more popular than judo or submission grappling matches. The reason MMA is gaining in popularity over boxing — 4 ounce gloves.