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How to Translate Pure Boxing Into Boxing for Mixed Martial Arts

3266931228_d7e29c9909_medium Marcus Davis talks about some of the key differences:

“One is the way you stand,” Davis said. “The way everyone stands so upright and staggered. You need to square your hips to defend a takedown. Also, to check a kick, you can’t do that from a staggered stance. You have to center up a little bit, hips pointed forward, in order to check a kick correctly.
 
“That right there takes away a lot of your boxing stuff,” he said. “And then the way you throw punches, the way you move your head. The defense is different. In boxing you lean back and do, like, the fading out of a punch. You can’t do that in MMA. If you lean back, you leave your legs forward. That leg will either be kicked or it leaves the leg open for a takedown.”
 
Davis said one cannot bob and weave because of the danger of being kneed, or of the chance of being caught in a Muay Thai clinch that leaves one vulnerable to knees and elbows.
 
But once he made the transition, Davis said, there were elements of boxing he continued – and continues – to use.
 
“The timing of punches, being able to get into the pocket, throw punches and not get hit, I was still able to carry that over into my MMA,” he said. “Defensively, I figured out what works in MMA and what does not work in MMA. The big thing is head movement. You have to be able to move your head, and you still have a lot of MMA fighters who don’t know that. A lot of MMA fighters do what I call framing up, where they just put both their hands up and keep them nice and tight around their head.”

With every sport that's incorporated into MMA, some of what works in the original sport is bubbled out in the cauldron of a MMA fight. Not everything translates over. We've yet to see anyone effectively work in X-guard from jiu-jitsu, the traditional stance in wrestling where wrestlers bend at the waist to protect the legs and hips and so on. None of this is to say categorically those elements we see in the traditional sports will never make the crossover, just that there's clearly a line of effectiveness some techniques do not cross enough to make them useful. And Davis is right: there is still a ton of room for growth when it comes to applying what boxing (or BJJ, or Thai boxing, etc.) does work into actual MMA competition. When Davis spoke of the "framing", the first person I thought of was Jake Rosholt. So close, yet so far.

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rosholt shouldve had a few more fights in the wec.. He’s too green for the ufc.. He shouldve faced lower tier fighters and not miller right off the bat..

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by Anton Tabuena on Feb 9, 2009 10:10 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

oh, and machida is the only one ive seen to incorporate karate that well in his mma game.. well chuck too, but does that count? Before seeing lyoto i was convinced karate was impossible to use and ineffective in mma fights, but hey, he does it well, and we may soon see other people evolve and incorporate machida-like striking and movement to their game..

http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/

by Anton Tabuena on Feb 9, 2009 10:14 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Machida’s timing and body control is amazing, I think that is a big reason why he can use his techniques so well. I don’t think many if any at all can match him in those right now.

by iiowyn on Feb 9, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We’re seeing some rapid improvement in the boxing technique of many MMA fighters.
Some decent head movement is no longer a jaw dropping shocker.
What we rarely see is nice combinations that include body shots.
Ever since Vitor Belfort teased us with flashes of good hand speed back in 1997 I’ve been waiting for a really genius application of boxing to MMA.
Still waiting.

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Feb 9, 2009 10:31 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

cain impressed me with his head and body attack.. yes its mostly kicks, knees and some punches, so its not really great boxing, but we rarely see people use body kicks/punches, especially with the heavyweights.. Or maybe he just looked good cause his opponent didnt belong in the cage with him?

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by Anton Tabuena on Feb 9, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Probably a little from column A and a little from column B.

by Estrada on Feb 9, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Urijah tore Jens up with that liver shot

but one example does not a fighter make. Course Master Thongdor trained 5 commission recognized boxing champs along with Buakaw and the other 2 Muay Thai champs he had. So there is chance for his hands to get better and better. Wait for see

Gimme 1 Round!

by skwirrl on Feb 9, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The mixing up of combinations was one of the first things that struck me about Anderson Silva, not so much the punching but he was throwing body and leg kicks into his striking combinations.

by iiowyn on Feb 9, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've noticed that too

During the finishing of Rich Franklin in the second fight Anderson lands a nice leg kick in the middle of a flurry to Rich’s head. I thought it was odd, but at the same time extremely effective.

Arlovski does some interesting things with really low leg kicks. Toward the end of his fight with Nelson, Arlovski uses a low kick to Roy’s calf area to open his legs and spread his hands before dropping a couple of bombs that lead to the end of the fight. Amazing technique that I am suprised to not see more fighters using.

by Razreshat on Feb 9, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Big fan of Marcus

I’m still trying to figure out why the UFC doesn’t give the guy a bigger push.

by Razreshat on Feb 9, 2009 11:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

"That right there takes away alot of your boxing stuff"

yah from sorry ass boxers who can’t adjust their style. Just as an example Joe Frazier stayed squared up all the damn time just as his style. Vic Darchinyan does also (albeit his entire style is beyond funky.) Jeff Lacy stands pretty square as does Kermit Cintron. Calzaghe stood very square and so did Tyson. Until the David Diaz fight Manny stood very square to his opponent and Erik Moralas was another. These are all guys that were squared up a vast majority of the time. Squaring yourself up would only cause the lower level guys to lose their abilities. You could tie PBF’s arm behind his back and force him to fight with both feet parallel and he’d be fine.

Gimme 1 Round!

by skwirrl on Feb 9, 2009 11:53 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Its funny hearing a guy lecture on other boxers

that fought 1 non can in his career got smoked and then quit boxing

Gimme 1 Round!

by skwirrl on Feb 9, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At least he's spot on about head movement

But as far as fading from punches leaving you open for a TD… Yeah if you don’t fuckin move. It leaves you open to get clinched and for infighting in boxing too. You fade and and use footwork to circle and throw the check hook or jump back and create distance.

Gimme 1 Round!

by skwirrl on Feb 9, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yah

and Framing is also known as Peek-a-boo. Its what they teach first when you’re a super noob to boxing. Why people would teach it for MMA I don’t know. With boxing you do it because the gloves are big enough to block and protect your face some. Its stupid and pointless with 4oz gloves on

Gimme 1 Round!

by skwirrl on Feb 9, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What? Rampage uses plenty of head movement.

by Luke Thomas on Feb 9, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think the clip is really evidence of much head movement as he’s ducking, but we don’t see much bob and weave here preceding Silva’s punches. That would be a far better indicator of head movement. When boxers talk about head movement, they don’t just mean ducking under wild punches. They mean bobing, changing angles with your head, with its location, slipping punches to get inside and ultimately making your head an elusive target. But that’s neither here nor there. Davis’ point is that framing – as he sees it – is a decent stance with hands around the chin but with no head (and probably no trunk) movement. So, if you’ve got your hands up, but you’re making your head an elusive target I don’t think the definition of “framing” qualifies. By Davis’ definition, yes, they are mutually exclusive.

by Luke Thomas on Feb 9, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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