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Bloody Elbow Judo Chop: Josh Neer, Mac Danzig and Three Ranges of Fighting

Danzig-neer-13_mediumThe UFC brass recognized Josh Neer vs Mac Danzig as the "Fight of the Night" at UFN 17, and rightfully so, it was a hell of a fight. So much so that I'm going to attempt to do a judo chop on the fight as a whole rather than focusing on a single technique.

I'll start at the end. Josh Neer won this fight on the ground. On the feet, at range and in the clinch, Mac Danzig was outpointing him if not inflicting more damage. But on the ground, it wasn't even close.

In the gif on the right, we see Neer getting the fight ending triangle choke. The novelty of this move comes from the way Josh uses his left hand to control Danzig's right wrist, and then when he pulls his left leg up, he uses his thigh to pin that same hand. Now Danzig is screwed -- Neer has the triangle choke, both hands free and Danzig right arm is pinned to his body by Neer's left leg. By the time Danzig frees his arm, the choke is already finishing him.

More in the full entry.

Star-divide

Danzig-neer-10_medium In the gif on the left, we see how ineffective Danzig's defensive guard was. He attempts to control Neer by holding both Neer's wrists. However, since Neer is the bigger, stronger fighter and Danzig is doing nothing to break down his posture, Neer easily gets his right arm free and a barrage of elbows follows, a painful barrage of elbows.

By contrast, when Neer was in guard, Danzig was unable to mount much, if any offense because Neer controlled his posture, worked constantly to score reversals or submissions, and frankly seized the initiative.

Its too bad for Danzig that the fight was decided on the ground, because standing -- at range and in the clinch -- Danzig more than held his own with the more powerful Neer. In the gif below, look at Danzig's beautiful boxing technique. He combines head movement, footwork, and angles to avoid Neer's punches and land a very nice combination jab-hook combination.

 

Danzig-neer-2_medium

Danzig didn't fight a flawless game on his feet, he started the fight with a lead high kick that he didn't set up and immediately got stunned by a counter punch that stunned him and set the tone for the fight. But all the same, he did enough to survive on his feet -- even dropping Neer with a punch at one point as Neer charged in (above). Unfortunately he elected to follow that up by diving into Neer's guard. Not a wise choice.

Danzig-neer-3_medium    

Danzig spent much of the fight in the clinch, fighting a defensive battle very effectively as in the gifs above. Throughout, Neer was telegraphing his intention to trap Danzig with the thai plum (both hands around the opponent's neck, behind the head) to land knees to the body and face. Danzig very adroitly evaded most of those attempts one way or the other. In the gif above left, we see Mac and Neer in a classic battle for control as Neer trys to establish the thai plum. Danzig uses his right arm to push Neer's left arm up so he can duck under, escape the hold and throw a nice combination.

Unfortunately for Mac Danzig, his superior technique on the feet was more than matched by Neer's superior power and technique on the ground.

Gifs by Chris Nelson from UFN 17 on Feb. 7, 2009.

1 recs  |  Comment 71 comments |

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“Danzig uses his right arm to push Neer’s left arm up so he can duck under, escape the hold and throw a nice combination.”

It’s not just that. He has to step back with his left foot first then step out with his right as he performs what is described above. Remember, you’re moving your feet in the clinch. You stay static and you get killed.

by Luke Thomas on Feb 9, 2009 11:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

good point

I was compressing the step into “duck under” but it’s essential.

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Feb 9, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Neer totally goaded Danzig into his world with his attitutude during the fight. Danzig had a huge mental fart to lose the way he did to an inferior fighter IMO. I mean, realistically Danzig should win that fight a good % of the time.

by Bigperm on Feb 9, 2009 11:34 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nah

Neer showed that he’s a bad match for Mac. Mac was outclassing him on the feet, but the thing about Neer is that he is so tough, I don’t even think iit fazed him enough to the point where he’s in significant danger. it’s like the more he gets hit the more pissed and motivated he gets to finish the fight Tough SOB, and Neer’s ground game is just on another level compared to Mac. So, I’d say that Neer would still win a good % of the time.

by I Can't Feel My Face on Feb 9, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Someone with more punching power would have knocked Neer’s head into the front row the way he was showboating and not defending. Danzig was hitting his head at will but just couldn’t do enough damage.

by iiowyn on Feb 9, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Neer does indeed

lose to strikers, look at his record (he was getting pounded by Guillard too). His stand up his sloppy but Mac’s striking wasn’t good enough to control the fight.

Neer has had success versus grapplers and ended up on the winning end against high level guys (Stevenson, Din Thomas). Other then the Diaz’s Neer has looked pretty good vs guys who aren’t known for their striking.

AWmusic - mp3 blog on independent music..

by achengy on Feb 9, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Neer's chin

Someone with more punching power would have knocked Neer’s head into the front row the way he was showboating and not defending.

that’s not true. Melvin Gulliard had punched the hell outta the Dentist,and Neer still pulled off a Triangle choke.
Josh can take a punch.

by TheLevi on Feb 9, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty amazing, he was walking right through those punches. It had to have a demoralizing effect on Mac, Mac would land some good shots that Neer just shrugged and just kept coming.

Danzig looked like he was doing what your supposed to do but Josh could not be slowed down, it sure looked like Mac got caught cuz he was getting tired.

by dualdiagnosis on Feb 10, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Very interesting.

Another great article for technique noobs like myself. I can tell you the general history of martial arts, but haven’t set foot in a gym in ages. How were you able to post gifs this time?

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Feb 9, 2009 11:35 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

SBN has a lawyer too

: )

It’s called “fair use”

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Feb 9, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Lawyers =X

by iiowyn on Feb 9, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome!

I never understood why Zuffa didn’t want you showing how good their fighters’ techniques were. Except Jason Lambert’s own “How Not to Punch” series; then again, there’s a reason why they let him go…

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Feb 9, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It probably also had something to do with having bitch tits at 205 and sucking at 185.

by subo on Feb 9, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously, is this necessary? Come on.

by Luke Thomas on Feb 9, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was surprised......

Neer was really good in this fight which was very acurately described as a “cross roads” fight for both guys. I couldn’t help being a little surprised that Danzig did not recognize that his top game was no match for Neer’s guard and that Danzig got caught the way he did. I don’t want to take anything away from Neer but it seemed like a pretty bonehead mistake by Danzig who has always seemed like a thoughtful fighter.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Feb 9, 2009 11:45 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

He got hurt early and I have to think he assumed his JJ game was going to be an advantage for him.

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Feb 9, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The thing that stood out for me from this fight was that Neer should have been punished for his showboating but Danzig didn’t have enough power.

by iiowyn on Feb 9, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get it...

Why are some people so bothered by in fight showboating? I see it as a psychological assault. If a fighter can get his opponent to express an emotional response to his showbaoting or piss them off with some trash talk during a fight I see that as one of the many strategies that can be implemeted. Evans did it in his fight with Forrest immediately following Forrest’s best striking assault. Forrest did not seem to react and Evans didn’t do it again. I do think it discouraged Forrest but not to the point where it took him out of his game. Danzig on the other hand played right into with Neer. Danzig probably wanted to punish Neer as you wanted him to but it hurt Danzig as he forgot he no top game against Neer’s guard and got right back on top of him to execute some failed ground and pound followed by trianlge choke submission.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Feb 9, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Showboat after you win.

by ricker2005 on Feb 9, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

For Neer it was a key part of getting the win. I think it really took Danzig out of his game.

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Feb 9, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree it was very important for him

But important or not, it just smacks of a lack of respect for you opponent and sportsmanship in general.

by ricker2005 on Feb 9, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that’s the point: he was showing Danzig that he didn’t respect his skills, and Danzig responded by getting his ass handed to him.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Feb 9, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly!

A good well-composed fighter doesn’t care if his opponent respects him or not. The composed fighter sticks to his game plan and executes regardless of his opponents antics. Showboating/Taunting doesn’t work against all fighters. The Diaz brother’s are famous for talking lots of shit across the octagon in between rounds. Many fighter’s never hear the cussing and smack talk the Diaz bros. spew across the cage in between rounds but some fighters can’t help but listen to it. A fighter should rest and regain valuable focus between rounds but it’s hard to regain focus if you can’t help listening to your opponent call you a bitch and a pussy and telling you how lucky you are that there are breaks between rounds cause he was kicking your ass and intends to continue doing so as soon as the fight starts back up.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Feb 9, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I cannot help

but picture a fighter sitting on his stool getting pissed off at one of the Diaz boys talking shit from across the ring. That would be some funny shit to hear.

by dnevil001 on Feb 9, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not disputing that it works on some fighters. All I’m saying is that taunting is a dick move, whether it works or not. Especially in a sport where the vast majority of competitors display excellent sportsmanship.

by ricker2005 on Feb 9, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, punching someone in the face or kicking them in the head is also a “dick move” but it also works. Especially in a sport where the vast majority of competitors are trying to kick each others asses.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Feb 9, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Evans showboats intelligently. It pisses me off still but I can respect his ability to do so and avoid retaliation. Neer was just leaving his face out there for Danzig to hit, which he did.

by iiowyn on Feb 9, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, he hit it, but he didn’t hurt Neer. I’m sure that frustrated the hell out of Danzig too. It’s all part of the game.

by FRANKIE on Feb 9, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It’s entertaining, and if you don’t like it, you can always punch the guy doing it in the face. Rec’d.

by subo on Feb 9, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

One last thing

The set-up Neer uses for the triangle choke is one of the more standard ones, which really calls into question Danzig’s defense. But as a side note, it’s worth pointing out that in addition to what Nate describes, Neer must also elevate his hips off of the ground to make the “grasp” behind Danzig. It’s hard to see from these camera angles, but I assure you its necessary.

by Luke Thomas on Feb 9, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Danzig looked pretty crisp on his feet. After re-watching the fight, I’m thinking maybe he was still stunned/hurt from Neer’s elbows and he was just trying to rest on top for a bit. That’s the only reason I can think of for not standing back up.

by ricker2005 on Feb 9, 2009 11:55 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

One of the funniest moments of the fight though was when Neer punched himself while Danzig was in his guard. That was priceless.

by SanDiegoMMA.net on Feb 9, 2009 12:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

this I gotta see

can someone hook us up?

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Feb 9, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I totally missed that during the fight. Awesome.

by pud333 on Feb 9, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t really believe that happened at first – only when it appeared on the Sherdog picture threads did it sink in. Rec’d

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Feb 9, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That is way too awesome. “I’m so tough I’ll beat both of us up and STILL win!”

by grb on Feb 9, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hardest Neer got hit all night.

by FRANKIE on Feb 9, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I also thought I saw that during the fight…. and now seeing it like this, I cant stop laughing.

by Tayman on Feb 9, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It is almost physically painful for me to see Neer not punished hard for all the attitude and showboating he did in this fight. I really wish someone with more punching power had been in the fight, cause Danzig was hitting him at will but doesn’t hit hard enough apparently.

by iiowyn on Feb 9, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Take this to its logical conclusion, my friend: Neer wouldn’t have showboated had those punches hurt more.

by subo on Feb 9, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I know that Danzig’s guard was nothing to write home about, but I totally geeked out for his crazy re-guard. It’s the kind of thing that you’ll occasionally see at a jiu jitsu tournament: from side-control, hip out to get a leg under him, used his other foot to post on Neer’s hip, spun across his own shoulders, and pushed with the foot on the hip to bring his other foot from the mat across Neer’s body and back into full guard. It was wicked. Too bad it got followed up by Danzig eating a punch to the head from guard.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Feb 9, 2009 12:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

can someone gif us up?

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Feb 9, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently not :p
Prove me wrong, you magnificent bastards

by subo on Feb 9, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yea gif please

I noticed the same re-guard, and was impressed. And yea, too bad the rest of his defensive guard skills were lacking.

by jafotinatos on Feb 9, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This was a sweet move,

but Neer completely killed me from cheering for him. His DWI not withstanding, his lack of class in this fight just made me never want to see him again. Even when Danzig was trying to hold his hand up as the winner he was kind of pulling away. This sort of thing really makes you appreciate the fighters that are class guys.

by dnevil001 on Feb 9, 2009 1:08 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I see why people are turned off by Neer’s “showboating,” but my thought was that he was doing it to show Danzig that he couldn’t finish him with strikes. I doubt he would pull the same thing against a guy who could KO him easily. Besides the size advantage, I think Neer’s ability to be the aggressor was instrumental in him pulling off the win. Danzig didn’t look good when Guida took the fight to him. It’s awfully simplistic and a little cliche’ as a deciding factor, but I do believe it made a difference, at least from a psychological standpoint. If Danzig didn’t think he was able to finish the fight standing, that may have made him more inclined follow Neer to the ground. I may be giving Neer too much credit. I don’t know.

by Cannon Jacques on Feb 9, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

His showboating during

the fight did not bother me as much as how he behaved after the fight. He is truly a classless guy & I know he is young but he has had a ton of fights & still behaves this way.

by dnevil001 on Feb 9, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This I agree with. In the fight, it can serve a purpose. Afterwards, it’s just stupid.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Feb 9, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, because at least during the fight

your opponent has the chance to do something about it which unfortunately Danzig could not capitalize on.

by dnevil001 on Feb 9, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

its kind of appropriate that Nate Diaz gave Neer so much respect after their fight isn’t it. They have a lot in common.

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Feb 9, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He pulled exactly the same move both the Diaz boys do in the fight. That arms held wide and high while just walking straight forward thing. I think he’s an honorary Diaz at this point.

by FRANKIE on Feb 9, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Danzig should have soccer kicked him in the junk right there. I would have laughed so hard.

by iiowyn on Feb 9, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Showboating really bothers you so much that you want to see the other guy disqualified?

by FRANKIE on Feb 9, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I really hate seeing stupidity not being punished. And yes, dropping all defense to showboat in a fight is very stupid.

by iiowyn on Feb 9, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not as stupid as it would be to kick that guy in the nuts and get yourself DQ’d.

by FRANKIE on Feb 9, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It helps that I don’t really care for Danzig…I also want to see people who turn their head so their opponent cannot hit them without hitting the back of their head get punched repeatedly there.

by iiowyn on Feb 10, 2009 1:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry but

is that a gif on the front page? Do they let it slide when it’s on network TV because they have to or did my mere threat of a Sternly Worded Letter campaign cause them to cave like bitches?

by subo on Feb 9, 2009 3:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I should read more comments before I comment. Fair use FTW

by subo on Feb 9, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Vegans can’t knock people out. Danzig never has, and two of his four TKO wins are either via cut or doctor stoppage.

by subo on Feb 9, 2009 3:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It's really

his ability to pass.

All his fights where I’ve seen him win were due to mounting the guy and unloading. Otherwise he doesn’t do that much from inside the guard.

AWmusic - mp3 blog on independent music..

by achengy on Feb 9, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

When I asaw Danzig against Bocek, I thought he was going to be a star in the UFC. Not so much anymore. Not sure what happened to that guy.

by Bigperm on Feb 9, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You can’t be serious. You think being a vegan has anything to do with knockout power? Wow.

by Bigperm on Feb 9, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sarcasm detection fail

by subo on Feb 9, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What I figured. :)

by Bigperm on Feb 9, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It happens to the best of us

by subo on Feb 9, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

too much gif in the main post

In this one Danzig is locking Neer’s wrists with overhooks. He eats a couple of knees to the body, but prevents Neer from establishing the thai clinch and is able to escape.

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Feb 9, 2009 5:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Here we see Danzig establish an underhook with his left arm, get control of Neer and spin out and force Neer’s back to the cage.

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Feb 9, 2009 5:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Feb 9, 2009 5:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Even here, where he gets nailed and knocked down, his facial expression and response on the ground shows how well this guy can take a shot. Like nothing happened, he grabs Mac’s right hand immediately.

Phenomenal.

by dualdiagnosis on Feb 10, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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