Day After Thoughts On UFC FN 17
by Warhand on Feb 8, 2009 1:08 PM EST
47 comments
I was entertained by the fights last night. There were a lot of commercials but that is to be expected from a free event on cable.
Anthony Johnson was disappointed with his performance but I thought he looked pretty solid. The fight definitely had that "only a matter of time" feel to it. Fiorvanti seemed as though he was just waiting to be knocked out. Johnson was telegraphing his kicks a bit. It was a good start to the night.
Josh Neer is a crazy fighter. He looked crazy and acted kinda crazy. Danzig's striking looked really good to me. I loved the way Mack set his feet underneath him and threw good combos from the pocket. Some of those combos were pretty standard and seemed to amuse Neer. My question is this; How does a guy as seasoned as Danzig get caught in a triangle the way he did? The big difference maker in this fight appeared to be top game. When Neer was on top Danzig was in danger. This was not the case when Danzig was on top.
Cain gets KO of the night? Is this a bonus that has to be given out? There was no KO last night IMO. Cain could not finish his fight in an entertaining fashion and fans don't like that. Why didn't Cain deliver knees to the body or just stand up? That fight was stopped on the basis of lameness. People talk about Cain's huge potential but I need to see more.
My favorite fight of the night was Veach vs Grice but that was not a fair stoppage. Veach was in worse shape on the ground early in the round and it wasn't stopped. Grice gets dropped and takes one clean shot and it is over? Laughable. Veach showed an old truth in fighting last night. A good chin and powerful hands are still a good combination of assets. Especially at 155lbs.
Joe Lauzon is awesome! I was never a fan of "Creepy Joe" until last night. Lauzon had complete and total control of that fight. He showed poise and skill. Stephens never had an answer. When I read Lauzon's pre fight comments I thought he sounded too cocky but the kid delivered. I love how he got it to the ground by attacking the leg over and over. His butterfly guard was almost artistic. The thing that comes to mind when I ponder this fight is "control, control, control". "Creepy Joe" is a great nickname but if Lauzon wants to be called J-Lau he has earned the respect to be called whatever he wants to be called. I am the newest J-Lau fan!
One Last thing: Rosholt needs to listen to his corner.
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I think the Cain KO bonus may have something to do with the AKA fiasco around signing their likeness away, as well I believe there were other problems with Cain in that there were items in his contract that he didn’t like yet existed in big superstars like Liddell. My guess is that the UFC is trying to keep him happy and encourage him that the UFC is the better promotion and it’s in his best interest to “play along”.
I think the event was really good, overall I’d think better than 94 to be honest in overall fights and outcomes. 94 had a more exciting main event but in terms of everything else UFN 17 was very good.
by pr0cs on Feb 8, 2009 1:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That may be true but it is lame. Giving Cain KO of the night really takes legitimacy away from the award. Everyone knows that it wasn’t a KO. If Dana wants to throw some money at Cain that’s fine but don’t give it to him for doing something that he did not do. He knows his performance wasn’t stellar and so does anyone who watched the fight. KO of the night my ass!
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Feb 8, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His performance wasn't stellar?
All he did for the better part of two rounds was pound on his opponent. He dominated the fight from the opening bell to the end, including a pretty clear 10-8 first. Cain was only disappointed that he couldn’t knock the guy out and that’s more credit to Stojnic’s chin than anything else.
by ricker2005 on Feb 8, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I laughed after the ref stopped the fight and asked Stojnic if he was ok, and he just shrugged and said, “Yeah I’m fine”. Guy has a steel skull!
by mythbuster on Feb 8, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stojnic earned himself a second UFC fight last night.
by subo on Feb 8, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I too have been eagerly awaiting the arrival of a European Cabbage with worse boxing than a toughman show at the local strip club.
by George Lucas on Feb 8, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you a)weigh over 206 lbs, b)throw bombs, c)take punches like a champ and d)put on a good show? Welcome to the UFC Heavyweight Division!
by subo on Feb 8, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That dude looked
like Cain could have taken a baseball bat to his head & he still would be there. I did not even notice any marks on his head after all of that. Tough dude, but probably better suited in smaller shows.
by dnevil001 on Feb 9, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This may sound odd...
but for some reason I really want to see him fight Dan Evenson
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 9, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is he the guy who fought
Kongo not long ago?
by dnevil001 on Feb 9, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s Evensen, and he’s 0-2. I can’t see him getting another fight. Stojnic/Hendricks!
by subo on Feb 9, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They already dropped Hendricks, probably because the nodules all over his body scared Dana’s children.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 9, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Check out Kongo’s fight from UFC 92 if you want to see how an elite fighter handles a can.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Feb 8, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Again
Cain dominated every minute of the fight. Shockingly enough, some people are harder to KO than others.
by ricker2005 on Feb 8, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why I do not feel he deserved KO of the night. He couldn’t get the KO. If he was awarded Dominant Performance of the night it would make more sense. He should have dominated every minute of the fight given the skill set of his opponent. Cain couldn’t KO Stojnic nor submit him. What do you think Kongo would have done to Stojnic?
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Feb 8, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ended up on his back for three rounds like a turtle?
by subo on Feb 8, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that a lot of people are missing out on the fact that Cain is a wrestler, and outstruck a guy who is greatly dependent on striking.
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
by BJJDenver on Feb 8, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a
KO/TKO of the night bonus…not just KO
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 8, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That being said..
I’d still give it to Rumble over Cain last night.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 8, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was still the last entertaining ‘KO of the night’ I have ever seen. Nobody seemed to even realize the bout was over until the ref. told Cain that’s it and then the crowd started booing. I think Rumble’s ending was much better.
by ufc4 on Feb 8, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Danzig needs some work on the ground
But his standup was really solid. I was really confused about his decisions in the second round though. He won the first round on his feet. Then he uses the beginning of the second to show he has no defense off his back and no offense from the top. So instead of standing back up and going back to a position that favors him, he just hangs out in Neer’s guard until he gets submitted.
Doesn’t make any sense at all.
by ricker2005 on Feb 8, 2009 1:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thank you very much! I tried several times, lol. It really makes a difference.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Feb 8, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Missed the first tap out
I didn’t mention it in my post but it needs to be addressed. During the Lauzon vs Stephens fight Stephens tapped once the arm bar was locked in but the ref missed it. Lauzon then rolled and Stephens was forced to abandon the tap and try to save his arm. Once belly up the ref stopped it but it was way late. I can’t imagine the panic Stephens must have felt after his first tap was not acknowledged. I think several ringside official observers would have helped in this situation.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Feb 8, 2009 3:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about all that – I think there should be one guy in an arena that can pause/stop a fight and that’s the referee inside the cage (and ring doctors, of course, but it’s the ref that calls him in). It’s kind of on you, as the guy whose limb is in danger (because you can’t blame the guy working the armbar), to let the ref know that you’d like him to stop the fight.
by subo on Feb 8, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think official observers should be able to stop the fight but they could definitely alert the ref that a fighter has tapped if the ref doesn’t see it because of his vantage point. In old Pride and now in Dream there are lots of observers keeping fighters out of the ropes and alerting the ref to rope grabbers and the like. I guess Stephens could have screamed “I tap, I would like you to please stop the fight!” but I think after the first tap wasn’t acknowledged his priority became saving his arm somehow.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Feb 8, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is, imo, I don’t think you can define tapping out as one tap.
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
by BJJDenver on Feb 8, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree but when I watched it again I saw that it was a definite tap and then lauzon rolled him.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Feb 8, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know what you need to see from Cain. Stojnic’s main skill is striking, and Cain absolutely embarrassed him on the feet. There was one combo early in the second round where I had to replay it several times to see what the hell happened. He’ll develop more KO power over time, but he can handily outstrike many if not most fighters in the division.
Top level freestyle wrestler with extremely dynamic striking. I’ll take him against everybody not in the top 10 right now, and maybe against a lot of the top 10.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 8, 2009 4:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If it’s the same combo I’m thinking of, that thing was really impressive. He changed the levels of his attack two or three times. That kid is gonna be a killer as long as he doesn’t have some crippling deficiency that we won’t know about until he fights top competition.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 8, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did Stojnic’s striking look good to you last night?
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Feb 8, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he looked like a larger version of ross pointon to me. war pointon!
by bdw on Feb 8, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No. On the other hand, Rich Franklin’s striking looked pretty mediocre against Anderson Silva.
Point being, we don’t know how much of Stojnic’s poor striking was the result of not being good, and how much of it was the result of being befuddled and manhandled by a far superior fighter. What we do know is that going in Stojnic was something like 10-1, that his skillset is built around his striking, and that he trains with one of the best striking camps in the world.
Eddie Sanchez didn’t do much against Cro Cop, is Cro Cop a lousy striker?
And its like you want to ignore your own eyes. Cain’s striking looks good. As Rundownloser said, unless he’s got some huge deficiency we can’t see yet, like a paper chin or a tendency to crack like an egg under pressure, he will be a world beater.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 8, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Goldberg also mentioned something during the broadcast about Stojnic being a black belt in Sambo.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 8, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. He’s nothing special, but he’s serviceable. And he had absolutely nothing for Cain.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 8, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Except one hell of a chin, which while does not win fights, definitely pisses off the guy trying to knock you out.
by iiowyn on Feb 8, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent point!
I am not sold on Cain “The World Beater” but your point about him making Stojnic look worse than he actually is makes sense to me especially when you mention Franklin vs Silva. I saw that Cain totally dominated the fight but there is no way he deserved KO of the night. I will wait to see Cain against some one who is top ten. I can’t stop wondering how he would fair against Kongo. That may be the fight I need to see.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Feb 8, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine a turtle that has been flipped.
Shell on the ground, legs flailing in the air.
by subo on Feb 8, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and amusingly enough, Stojnic’s striking doesn’t look terrible in the first 20 seconds or so, until Cain gets his timing and distance. After that Stojnic’s striking looks bad because Cain is a second ahead of him with EVERYTHING.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 8, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, he just looked plain awful all around and in WAY over his head again Cain. Couldn’t believe the guy was 12-1 coming in to the fight.
Cain is young and good but If his inability to finish last night and lack of power, he could run into trouble against an elite HW with power.
by Bigperm on Feb 8, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he can’t get them to the ground. :)
by Michaelthebox on Feb 8, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stojnic’s main skill is striking,
Stojnic’s striking in that fight consisted entirely of a lunging windmill haymaker. He can take a serious beating though so that puts him somewhere below Cabbage in the grand scheme of things.
by George Lucas on Feb 8, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
that was some serious “While I’m throwing this punch I can also take my wallet out of my back pocket” windmilling. There was also the “Fuck it…let’s see if this works” spinning backfist.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 8, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Creepy Joe > J-Lau x1000000000
im not impressed with your performance
by troy145 on Feb 8, 2009 11:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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