If BJ Penn Wants a Rematch, He Needs to Earn it
by Michael Rome on Feb 6, 2009 8:53 AM EST
in MMA News
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BJ Penn clearly wants a rematch:
For the past several days I have been reading statements made by St. Pierre and Greg Jackson about our fight on January 31. St. Pierre claims that he is "not a cheater" and that he and Greg Jackson will have "no problem with a rematch in the summer of 2009." To the untrained eye the grease might not look like much, but every grappler knows the effect that it has. Being able to apply your submissions and sweeps or just being able to hold on to your opponent to defend yourself from being hit is absolutely critical! There is a reason why you are not allowed to put grease anywhere on your body except for the area around your eyes. Because of the grease applied to St.Pierre’s Body the Nevada State Athletic Commission’s executive director, Keith Kizer has stated that the Penn-St. Pierre fight "definitely wasn’t fair". I hereby accept George St. Pierre and Greg Jackson’s challenge for a fight in the summer 2009. Lets call Dana now and set it up.
Actually, Kizer's quote was that the cornerman's actions weren't fair to Penn or GSP, but aside from that point, this rematch stuff is probably going to become a big issue with BJ. He has successfully deluded himself into believing he didn't really lose, and now he is going to claw to get that rematch instead of defending his 155 pound title.
There may be some tough choices for Dana White ahead. There are a few points in favor of a rematch: both fighters want it, and the feud is now so bitter that the buyrate would be completely astronomical due to the build. The other positive is it could give everyone a definitive answer and end all questions about a fight that was tainted.
However, there are significant negatives to doing a rematch as well. The first fight was a brutal ass kicking, and Penn is putting his body in jeopardy fighting St. Pierre again. Further, it's even more unfair to challengers for each title to have to wait again for this. We also know that if BJ wins he wants to retire, giving the UFC every incentive in the world not to give him this fight. Finally, and probably most importantly, the grease story is confined to a small world of hardcore fans. Most casuals will never know or care about it. However, hyping a fight around it will permanently raise the issue about St. Pierre, something the UFC marketing machine is certainly not interested in.
My position is this: if BJ Penn wants a rematch, he needs to drop his title, move to 170, and earn a title shot. Maybe if he can beat Jon Fitch and Matt Hughes he can earn himself a shot. As is, he cannot put himself above the entire roster especially after getting handled so badly. St. Pierre is probably fighting in July, if BJ wants it so bad he has plenty of time to earn his shot.
I'm not going to sit here and say the outcome of a rematch is certain. Nothing is certain when it comes to BJ Penn, he's just too good to ever be sure. But I believe St. Pierre wins this fight now 99 times out of 100, and it may just be a more athletic version of Ortiz/Shamrock. Except with real heat behind it.
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Florian has earned his shot at the consensus #1 LW. BJ would be a bad sportsman not to give him a fight before going to 170 if that is his plan.
BJ likes to fight up in weight cause it gives him and his fans a built in excuse when he loses
He’ll always be the #1 LW when he fights up in weight. “Oh I got KO’d by James Irvin? Well that was at a 190 lbs catch weight. I’m still the best lightweight in the world.” “Oh I’ve only beaten one, top 10 at the time of the fight, LW in my career? Well I’ve lost to GSP twice and I’m 1-and-1 with Hughes and I took Machida to a decision early in his career. That makes me #1 LW in the world.”
BJ is so overrated its disgusting
Gimme 1 Round!
I guess you could say 2 top 10 lightweights
If you consider Caol Uno top 10 at the time of that fight.
Gimme 1 Round!
Why?
Who had Sherk beaten at LW to earn top 10 status? An unranked at the time Florian and a game, but hardly world-class Franca? How does that make you top 5?
Don't be stupid
Sherk has controlled and dominated all of his opponents short of GSP, Hughes and BJ. Did you not just see his fight with Griffin? Get it together..
And yet it does.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
No rematch, BJ Penn was clearly outclassed and dominated by GSP so much that he quit before the 5’th round end of story. He’s been beaten twice by George and has been exposed as a lazy crybaby who can’t accept defeat even when he is embarrased in front of millions of MMA fans. Time for him to take his ball home and retire like the quitter that he is and let the real MMA fighters who put in hard work and dedication to the sport like KenFlo to show what a real champion is supposed to act and train like.
by Raker on Feb 6, 2009 5:15 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I wasn’t buying the first rematch because the initial bout lacked a spark and than the rematch bout lacked spark. Not saying some people won’t be interested but even boxing knows the series needs to produce a highlight to continue.
The tito rematch did a record number, and then the third rematch (which was ridiculous) did an all time high rating for them. Rematches with controversy are the real money makers in the fight business. If they did it, some hardcores would cry foul while they’d crush their buyrate record.
I agree rematches do better but Tito vs Shamrock had finishes, something that brought a level of enjoyment no matter how bad the mismatch was. GSP vs Penn matches end when BJ gets too tired. It’s not exciting seeing GSP hold Penn on the ground for 10 – 20 minutes until that happens. I don’t see why a causal fan would get excited about another boring contest? The two biggest highlight to come out of this last match were BJ getting kissed by the tranny and GSP getting greased in the corner (allegedly) .
Obviously this argument can’t go much further, but you’re way too into the MMA bubble. You put controversy around a fight watched by millions, add two guys that brutally hate each other, and the UFC hype machine, and it is a goldmine. It’s just basic promoting, hype sells shows, not the fights. There’s a lot of reasons not to do it, but honestly this is the kind of thing the people at Affliction and elsewhere just don’t get.
And I should say not one of the 12 or so casuals I watched with found the fight “boring” at all. You’re just projecting your own tastes to try to argue nobody will want to see it, when in reality it will do insane business.
I think a number of people would skip the next match up. What’s new to explore? The hate was there in the last match and it produced nothing to talk about in the cage. UFC spent 2 years re-building up Penn for this rematch. They gave him belt, sung his praises with Joe Rogan on every broadcast, made everyone forget he was out matched at WW . . . than Penn showed nothing against GSP. You think causal fans are really going to believe vaseline was the cause of a lopsided fight? Only hardcore fans are going to buy that argument, anyone outside of the art form is going to laugh at that excuse. Really, vaseline caused a butt kicking?
It was boring. The same thing was said about the Barnett/Yvel match up. One guy just pinned the other down and beat him up in a non-exciting, drawn out way. Casual fans notice, I still hear from casual fans swearing they will never watch another Alrovski fight again because he was boring in AA vs Sylvia III, 3 years later they haven’t tuned in over one fight, they are that fickle. You want to schedule another GSP vs Penn, if Penn doesn’t deliver a show I guarantee the boring tag will be wrapped around one of these fighters damaging their future draw power.
I fail to see how GSP repeatedly passing BJ’s guard and marking up a face that I assumed was made of a rare combination of granite and leather is boring. GSP was very active in BJ’s guard, far from just holding him down. I am nowhere near excited to see a third match between these two. Although it seemed BJ had some success with rubber guard in the first round, (success loosely defined here as not absorbing 20-30 elbow/punch combinations throughout the round) it should have been clear to everyone that BJ was ill prepared to keep up with the pace that the stronger GSP was pushing. Not boring, just one fighter executing a well prepared strategy.
By the same token, the shittiest movie sequels make more money than the originals while being panned by critics and educated film fans. And when companies, be it Zuffa or Hollywood studios, provide a lower quality product in order to capitalize on mob mentality and fan ignorance, it’s our duty to cry foul and criticize them.
The Sequels are shitting but the original movie brought some level of entertainment that brought people back to the next installment.
The only thing causal fans look for in a PPV entertaiment. They barely know the fighters, barely know the background of the match and don’t care about anyone’s legacy. I’ve been around enough causal fans to know that when a fight bores them they typically shy away from watching those same fighters again. A lot of them bought into UFC 94 because they were told two really good fighters were going to facing each other and thought how exciting this match could be. The causal fans I knew who watched the first GSP vs Penn didn’t bother to buy UFC 94 for the rematch. Judging from the group I was with for the last bout they won’t buy GSP vs Penn III, they liked EliteXC in Oct better . . . why because they are casual fans.
As a BJ fan, I'd prefer he defends the LW title
But if this indeed happens eventually I hope for his sake he really does his homework and actually formulates a proper game plan.
Bring on a rematch!
Match 1- Tie
Match 2- GSP asterisk win
http://www.webstakk.com/GuitarHero/2009-02-04/MzQ1
Match 3- Bad Blood, time to settle the score without the lube.
I'm a fan of both fighters
I want a rematch to see if GSP won fairly since vaseline would have directly affected the outcome. I’m sorry, but despite his years of experience Kizer has clearly never tried to go for Mission control or NY on someone. Sweat makes it hard, even oily skin makes it difficult as hell, let alone petroleum jelly.
Hehe
Maybe the only reason that BJ wants a rematch is cos GSP revealed his strategy?
Also, didn’t Rudy V say that BJ wanted to fight on the ground (thus why the lubegate shenanigans is so important to them)? I think that GSP is too versatile that, now, he beats BJ anywhere the fight goes.
I think everyone, no matter how die-hard a fan you are of BJ, knows that a rematch is not a good idea (for BJ).
Its pretty similar to the Rich Franklin / Anderson Silva thing, until someone else is champ in the MW division, Rich ain’t gonna be champ. I feel its the same for BJ.
Kenny is going to fuck BJ up.
If he does get a rematch with GSP though…. man, I tell you what, its BJ who’s gonna need some serious anal lube.
by cauliflower_ears on Feb 6, 2009 6:28 AM EST reply actions
I think BJ is still the massive favourite over Ken-Flo, but it’s not as distant as it once was. That has everything to do with Florian’s improvement, though, and nothing to do with a perceived decline on BJ’s part. At LW, BJ is still a wrecking machine. The sport has just progressed too far in terms of the conditioning and training that fighters put in and the amount of weight they cut for most guys to fight so much higher than their natural weight; even Wandy is moving down, which I thought would never happen. BJ is still an incredibly dominant LW. Consider:
*Florian won’t have GSP’s reach advantage.
*Florian, should he get top position, will not be able to apply as much pressure to BJ to hold him in place.
*Florian, though an excellent striker, is just not as strong as GSP, and if GSP couldn’t KO Penn, Florian’s really isn’t going to.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Agreed on BJ being a massive favorite. I’m a huge Florian fan, but I just don’t see how he wins that fight.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 6, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Actually Florian has the same reach advantage that GSP had. 74 for both compared to BJ’s 69.
GSP is a very good striker but doesn’t have knockout power. Kenny doesn’t have heavy hands either but is more vicious with his elbows than GSP. Of course GSP is better in almost every department but for me Kenny has to be one of the most improved fighters in mma.
by cauliflower_ears on Feb 6, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Wikipedia has GSP’s reach listed at 76". Beyond that, GSP often uses a much narrower karate-style stance that effectively makes his jab even longer, which is one reason he throws so many driving or leaping straight rights. Ken-Flo usually fights out of the much more square thai stance. The practical end result is that GSP can use his jab to especially great effect without putting himself in danger.
I don’t argue that Florian is one of the most improved fighters in MMA. THat’s evident; the guy’s work ethic is incredible. But he simply doesn’t have the physical size and power that GSP has. His frame is just smaller.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 6, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Penn definitely should earn it
But I’d prefer to see him fight at 155…
Unfortunately Lesnar set the bar REALLY low for earning title shots.
by Pandanus on Feb 6, 2009 7:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You can blame Randy for that – he turned down Nog for Brock.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 6, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Ha. Ok BJ. Keep listening to what your family and friends tell you. You really CAN beat GSP!!!!!
Yeah, who got the final Death Blow? 'Cause I thought that Hawaiian guy had it comin' to him. - C. K.
by monkeyfightclub! on Feb 6, 2009 7:31 AM EST reply actions
For me he would have also to earn his way up on 170 for a rematch. It’s 2×0 now, George is the title holder. If Penn wants a new rematch, forget 155, train at 170, fight Thiago and Fitch and then fight St. Pierre again.
St Pierre himself had to fight 2 more times to get a rematch with Serra when Serra beat him.
I second that
If BJ wants to be a welterweight, fight your way up the ranks at 170.
Otherwise, give Florian the shot he deserves.
Needless to say, if Florian wins, Penn’s WW dreams go out the window.
Ridiculous!
Dana isnt stupid enough to go for this. Or is he? If he does I will buy a first class ticket to Vegas, a front row ticket to the fight, go up to Dana and slap him right in the face for making such a stupid move.
We want to see ALVES VS GSP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then if GSP wins
GSO VS SILVA AT MIDDLEWEIGHT DAMNIT
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
C’mon BJ, let it go and focus on winning again. In fact isn’t BJ 4-4 in last eight fights, if GSP kills him again, and BJ retires, or is mentally out of it and doesn’t care or train enough to fight KenFlo, his legacy will be tarnished, and that would suck cause he is a monster. Plus as fight fans, after that last fight, wouldn’t we all rather see GSP fight Alves than hopefully Silva, and wouldn’t we want to see BJ win against KenFLo and then fight Diego Sanchez, that would be a great way to end the year!!!
Agreed
KenFlo and perhaps Diego Sanchez would be great fights for BJ. Him and his yes men are ruining his career with these dilusional dreams.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 6, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
I’d love to see a Diego-Penn fight. I’m really stoked to see Sanchez at LW!
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Depends, of course, on how well Diego performs at LW. But considering he was very good at WW without cutting more than a pound or two, I think he’s going to be a monster.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 6, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
This article is correct. But Penn’s camp won’t see it that way. We’ll have to wait and see what the athletic commission says.
If they decide to let these two rematch in the summer, then
they should create interm champs in both their divisions. Its not fair to ask guys like Florian to either sit out that much longer, or take a fight inbetween that has no upside for them.
Let them fight for an interim title that will be unified after this supposed GSP v Penn III.
Your right, it’s not fair at all to Florian and Alves. In fact Florian won the number 1 contender spot when he beat Huerta, he had to fight Stevenson I think it was just beacuse he needs to keep making money. But he’s already been waiting over a year, at this point if they fight again, BJ and GSP that is, KenFlo might not get a shot til 2010, if at all! BJ is starting to be disrespectful not only to the LW division, but to the contenders in the WW division too! Shit man, I was so ready to move on!!!
"BJ, you gonna end up in the ospital again."
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
I think...
That Penn’s pride mixed with GSP talking shit on the radio has created this… I don’t think BJ would’ve asked for this fight had GSP not stated the things he said. Although I don’t blame GSP, bc BJ talked a lot of shit before the fight, the fact is BJ had yet to really equate the “greasing” for his loss completely. GSP (as far as I’ve read) blamed the whole grease-gate thing on BJ making excuses, and that probably riled Penn up again.
BJ is my favorite fighter probably… but I hope he concentrates on defending his belt for a while…
BJ = Whiny bitch
There is no way he can actually think he deserves a re-match. There is also no way he can actually think he will win. BJ take your ass whoopin like a man.
The levels of stupidity we're now reaching with this thing ...
… are totally breath taking.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Feb 6, 2009 9:48 AM EST reply actions
So, so far in 7 rounds of bj vs penn… we have…
gsp dominating 4 rounds (the whole last fight)
gsp winning 2 rounds (unless your cecil,the last two rounds of the first fight)
and then bj winning one fucking round… where he poked the dude in the eye.
weeeeeeeeeeeeeee
oh and has bj penn ever actually LOST??? i mean [sarcasm] he has some L’s on his record, but thats just from gassing he is a better fighter. He hurt his rib against hughes or he would have won. pulver just got lucky. He is too small for machida so that tdoesn’t count. He sent gsp to the hospital the first fight!!! and this fight… ITS THE GREASE!!!. BJ pen… 14-0[/sarcasm]
by dbcb on Feb 6, 2009 9:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Want GSP, move up!
If Penn wants to take another title shot at GSP, some other things have to happen. First, Penn defends his title against KenFlo, GSP defends against Alves. If both are successful then they will have cleaned out their divisions, offering more flexibility. Then their can be a rematch after which Penn win or lose can retire and St. Pierre can move up to challenge Silva at Middleweight.
Something that is essential to any rematch is that Penn takes enough time to put on weight and muscle. Perhaps enough that he even requires a little cutting. Otherwise we will see the same fight as the second time.
by Reciprocity on Feb 6, 2009 10:10 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Penn simply doesn’t have the frame to hold muscle mass and be a true WW (aka cut down from 180-190)
Look at the shoulder structure and width of Penn compared to say GSP or Alves. It isn’t just a muscle difference… it is a structure difference.
Penn just simply isn’t built to be at the heavier weight classes. Hell, he isn’t even jacked or anything at 155.
Agree 100%. If he wants a rematch drop the 155 belt and move up. I’m tired of some guy wanting to hold both belts hostage, especially when he hasn’t done nearly enough in his weight class to justify the move.
Anderson Silva I can see moving.
GSP I can see moving if he beats Alves
Penn has defended his belt 1x, he needs to enforce that there are no compelling matches at 155 before he tries this shit again.
If there is another rematch, perhaps BJ will accept the fact that it wasn’t just the grease (no matter what he says publicly) and train harder. One can hope anyway.
by thekiltedwonder on Feb 6, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions
Wow
I was a BJ fan, but I have found his conduct after this fight a strange mix of laughable and reprehensible. He lost badly, and if he wants a rematch, he has to earn it, like any other UFC fighter.
I guess his ego and ability to delude himself is far greater than I thought, and I thought it was large to begin with. Time to find another fighter to root for.
Is there still room on the Machida bandwagon?
I think it takes some serious balls to want to get back in the octagon with GSP – I love it. When does that ever happen? How many other fighters have been that ballsy?
I didn’t see Matt Hughes asking for a rematch against Thiago Alves.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
it has nothing to do with balls
it has to do with ego and luck
ego being his is so huge he really doesn’t think he ever gets beat.
luck because if he fights him enough times, he may actually win. then he can retire, and say he is better than gsp (even though he would be 1-2)
Here’s an idea, keep giving BJ as many rematches as he wants until he lands that 1 lucky punch that puts GSP away. Then he can can declare himself the legend he thinks he is and retire, According to Michael Rome, that should only take another 98 rematches or so. Let’s continue to put both weight divisions on hold and deny all those other deserving fighters title shots. No fighter is bigger than the UFC and MMA. One thing’s for certain, I am not shelling out 98 X $50 = $4900 to watch BJ lose again and again to GSP, until he finally does win a match. I can’t believe the ego on this guy and how deluded his fans are.
Well....
Who knew that BJ loved getting his ass kicked so much. This is all Chuck Liddell’s fault! Dude needs to learn to stay out of a fight he is not a part of. I kid, I kid. I am just stupid enough to watch another fight between these two guys.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
warhand
well said. when i saw dana’s vlog and chuck was up and running around like crazy, i thought “wtf? sit down and drink your nyquill chuck!” he’s not part of the nsac, he was just a common spectator at the time. was chuck really trying to uphold the integrity of the sport? or is he a little bit bitter b/c 2 of gsp’s teamates whooped his ass. uh-oh another conspiracy theory. :-)
if bj wants a rematch that badly...
… catch weight
… no titles at stake
… free on spike
see how badly he wants a rematch when he doesn’t have as much to gain. and throw it on spike so we don’t have to pay to watch him get brutalized again.
by woooburn on Feb 6, 2009 11:26 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
I love that idea
Rec’d!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 6, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
If penn wants a fucking legacy why doesn’t he go to japan?
be US guy to pack up, leave the UFC, and go fuck shit up. Go fight gomi again. Go fight Aoki, JZ, hellboy, alvarez. Go conquer japan… he can always be remembered for that.
and hell, if he wants to fix his cardio problems… all the drugs you want in japan.
Want to jump up weightclasses for no real reason? go ahead, japan doesn’t care.
the grease story is confined to a small world of hardcore fans. Most casuals will never know or care about it.
This is true. Every casual fan I’ve spoken to don’t seem to care about the greasing, or have even really heard much on it. Even on ESPN’s MMA Live they pretty much mentioned it briefly and brushed it aside.
Personally, I don’t care to see BJ get beat down again. BJ is completely delusional if he thinks he’ll just bully his way back to another title shot. I like the guy, but someone has to bring that dude down to earth. This is completely indicative of BJ’s general persona about himself and his talents and his lack of proper training.
I personally don’t think it will happen, considering Penn’s comments about how he had planned to retire. But stranger things have happened. If the potential buy rate justifies it, the UFC would probably do it. But I agree that he has to earn the shot.
What? Penn accepts GSP's challenge?
I thought Penn’s lawyer stated in the original ‘complaint’ that BJ wanted a rematch. The letter was released to the media on mid-week, however the NSAC received the letter earlier.
Nahabedian’s letter concluded: “All Mr. Penn wanted to have is a fair and just bout and he continues to seek a fair and just encounter against Georges St-Pierre.”
And in the San Francisco Chronicle it was also pointed out “Penn’s lawyer, Raffi Nahabedian, told The Associated Press that Penn, a lightweight from Hawaii who relies on grappling to submit opponents using Brazilian jiujitsu, wants a rematch because he believes St. Pierre had the jelly on his body to prevent attempts to grasp him.”
Perhaps it doesn’t really make a difference who is asking for the fight, but I was clearly under the impression that it was Penn/Penn’s camp that were making the bold statements of a rematch.
I should add … then finally GSP had enough of Penn’s yapping.
I think BJ should go to Pride
and do lots of roids and then he can beat GSP for rills! BJ on roids can’t even not lose at all!!!11 LOL!!! ROFL!!! War BABEE J!!!
You mean DREAM
right?
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 6, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
All those Japanese promotions look alike.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 6, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
From Michael Rome's comments
Actually, Kizer’s quote was that the cornerman’s actions weren’t fair to Penn or GSP, but aside from that point, this rematch stuff is probably going to become a big issue with BJ. He has successfully deluded himself into believing he didn’t really lose, and now he is going to claw to get that rematch instead of defending his 155 pound title.
I don’t think BJ will never shut up about this. The character assassination (in any form) against GSP will continue until they have another match.
I would also suggest to GSP’s manager that she think of hiring a law firm to draft a letter to the NSAC, to get them to check the videos of GSP’s fights with Hughes, Serra, Penn 1, and Miller. If/when there is no evidence of wrong doing then the NSAC needs to hold a press conference and proclaim GSP did not do anything wrong.
I keep reading from many people that they are concerned for the “integrity of the sport.” I have no problem with that, but I don’t think that having GSP pushed on his sword, if no wrong doings are evident, is the way to protect the integrity of the sport.
Over on Fightticker they have an interview with Kizer. But what I wanted to point out is that the blogger also mentions, which I have seen on other fight sites— is that, is this going to be the new thing, where you lose a fight and just make a comment about your opponent being greased and let the blogoshpere run with it.
Only really works when the opponent actually does it and is seen by millions.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 6, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
So that explains Hughes, Serra, Miller and then, apparently, Thiago Alves saying on Sherdog Radio that – ‘I don’t care if GSP is greased I’m going to push him away and knock him out.’
It seems to be working without a single person seeing all the other claims. And of course the projection by Alves.
The other claims are only now receiving credence because it actually happened in this fight. Actually, the other claims and this one are being attacked even more although the evidence for it this time is pretty hard to dispute.
Whether thiago cares if GSP greases is kind of beside the point, wouldn’t you agree?
Unless you are just advocating that greasing up should be legal because it makes no difference.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 6, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
In one post you are making claim that ‘millions’ saw what happened.
Now you are trying to defend those claims that no one saw.
You, as usual, are going in circles.
>>>> Whether thiago cares if GSP greases is kind of beside the point, wouldn’t you agree?
Not at all — or I wouldn’t have brought it up.
Another poster making my point.
More widespread than you’d think?
Greasing has become the new steroids: where everyone was on steroids before, everyone is now greasing. That seems to be the case anyways. And who knows … perhaps this is just all part of that mass hysteria that went on over the weekend, or perhaps this has exposed an area of mixed martial arts that needs to be addressed now. Here’s Steve Cofield trying to sort out fact from innuendo:
Mac Danzig told us today during an interview to preview Ultimate Fight Night 17, that he’s heard that greasing is more widespread than you’d think saying that guys will do it hours before a fight, letting the Vaseline seep into the skin and sweating it out when the fight starts. Even more intriguing was a recent conversation with an MMA fighter who said there are certain baths (mineral oil) that a fighter can take. Once the fight starts and the fighters begin to perspire, it’s almost as if he’s sweating baby oil. The same fighter said that GSP isn’t the only Jackson’s Submission Fighting team member who’s been labeled a "greaser". An opposing camp made those claims saying, "we do it, so we’d know if they were doing it."Regardless of what you think about X or Y fighter greasing, I think we’re all in agreeance now that something needs to be done, not just to stop greasing but stop greasing allegations. Because I tell you what: this is only going to get worse if something isn’t done. If commissions are willing to go as far as collecting piss from people to stop steroid use, is it really that far fetched to ask that fighters be swabbed before heading to the cage or something?
Regarding a rematch:
I have stated several times, that I like both fighters, but BJ is my man.
That said, I really don’t need a rematch right now. Maybe a couple years down the road, but not right away. I much prefer to see GSP working over the WWs, and BJ doing the same to the LWs.
Now, if they do have a rematch this year, I hope that BJ trains even harder, prepares better and maybe even goes elsewhere for his camp. In the very least, I hope he comes more ready to fight, than he did last weekend.
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
BJ Penn is a master fight hyper. I would not be surpised in the least if Dana has been in BJ’s ear about trying to hype a rematch here given the fact that the PPV numbers are going to be huge and another fighter would only increase or equal those numbers.
This is about the money. Why wouldn’t the 2 want to fight again when they can each make another 3-4 million off of it?
GSP will surely go along for the ride here and ass to the hype.
The vaseline had nothing to do with this fight. Zero. BJ got spanked. He needs to let it go. I was a monster Penn fan before this fight, and after this nonsense, he’s lost a lot of luster in my eyes.
the truth about all this nonsense...
1. The truth is… the hype and promos for these fights are better than the fights themselves… BJ Penn has one 1 out of 7 rounds vs GSP, and a person could argue he won that round due to an illegal eye poke that blurred GSP’s vision and caused him to catch a few jabs square in the nose. This isn’t hagler-hearns here… it’s been very one-sided each time… GSP is clearly a better fighter… I love seeing both fight, but the beating BJ takes gets worse each time. I’d like to see BJ dominate LW… I’d love to see kenflo lose badly…
2. The truth is… the outrage over this vaseline is sad. Sad because it was done… it should be a rule that only officials put on vaseline for fighters. I don’t think it was that bad, plus it was toweled off by an official, but the glorified MMA media made a huge stink out of this that fueled fires of this talk for a rematch. What a shitty outcome… thanks Greg Jackson for giving cry babies something to cry about… dumbass.
3. The truth is… money rules everything. Because this fight had huge gate and PPV success, you know it’s going to happen… Dana White is no dummy… he’s a promoter, he’s promoted the hell out of this past fight… he will promote the hell out of the 3rd fight… it will happen… not as early as summer 09… but it will happen down the road… bet on that, it’s a safe bet… about as safe as betting on GSP to win again… easy money.
4. The truth is… GSP vs Alves, BJ vs Florian and possibly GSP vs Silva… are much better fights to be had… and can generate much bigger revenues… so after some market research, maybe UFC will determine to put a nail in the coffin of BJ vs GSP 3
5. The truth is… BJ is still a legend in the sport and one of the best to ever enter that cage. GSP is a better fighter who will continue to beat BJ, grease or no grease… but BJ is still one of the very best this sport has to offer. I hope he moves on to other challenges in LW… I want to remain a BJ Penn fan… I don’t want to see him lose to GSP again as much as I am an ever bigger GSP fan. BJ Penn is risking his career by asking for a rematch… his pride is too big for him to see it… and I suspect he’s surrounded by guys afraid to say anything different… if he loses again and loses badly… he’ll be Rich Franklined… nobody will really care when he fights… because he’ll have solidified his reputation as being a mediocre fighter, even though in reality he’s far from such a thing. Losing badly to GSP one more time may label him as that for the remainder of his career… and in turn, will damage the entire LW division of guys who can’t beat a mediocre champion.
6. The truth is… all of this kinda sucks. I really love both fighters… loved watching both fights, now I just have a sour taste in my mouth from greg jackson’s stupid mistake, to BJ’s excuses and sour grapes… fine or ban jackson, fine GSP… then move on… lesson learned… implement new guidelines and rules for application of grease between rounds and prior to the fights… and let’s move the fk on already… A great fight between 2 incredible warriors… turned into this… ya, it really kinda sucks all around.
You must have a lot of time on your hands.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 6, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
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