Quote of the Day: Georges St Pierre Answers the Allegations
by Kid Nate on Feb 5, 2009 10:49 AM EST
in MMA News
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Listen, I never cheated in my life. Let me tell you something, I never said something bad to B.J. Penn. I never answered back to him with what he said. I’ve always been respectful. Even after the fight I went and told him, ‘Hey, keep your head up. You can be proud. You’re a tough guy. You stayed in the ring for a long time.’ But now that he says something like that it bothers me a lot. He already said I was taking steroids, that I was a quitter, that he was blaming me for seeing a sports psychologist and now he says that I cheat because I use Vaseline.
...
First of all what happened is Phil, he put Vaseline in my face, but then after he didn’t have the Vaseline,” said St. Pierre. “After he put Vaseline in my face, he didn’t put Vaseline in my back. That’s what people don’t understand. He put one hand on my chest and he made a circle behind my back. It helps my breathing.
...
When you come back in the corner, sometimes by punching and clinching, your shoulders are stiff. So it’s good to massage the shoulders to make the blood flow, you know what I mean? To make it more loose. If you look at muay Thai fights, in muay Thai they come back in the corner to get massage[d] to make the blood circulate. It’s the same thing in MMA. You get massage[d] to make the blood flow so you’re more fresh the next round.
Georges St. Pierre talking to Sherdog Radio Network’s “Beatdown” show on Wednesday. Transcript here.
NOTE: And to clarify my stance on this matter, I don't necessarily doubt GSP's word on this. I do think his corner messed up bad and should be investigated and punished (the Dana White position).
The purpose behind my writing on this issue is to cast a strong light on GSP and his corner so that they will be extra super careful in the future to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.
I'm not trying to run GSP out of the sport and I'm not accusing him of being a cheater. I have rooted for him his entire career and hope to root for him in his future fights.
But he should do as he is advising B.J. Penn -- take a hard look at the things he can control -- such as his corner's behavior and use of vaseline -- and make damn sure in the future that none of that is wiped on his body by a sloppy cornerman.
This incident arose from the actions of GSP and his corner, not from the NSAC, not from Keith Kizer, not from B.J. Penn, and certainly not from Kid Nate.
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I don’t see where BJ has said anything bad to GSP or about GSP. I think there is a big misunderstanding here.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
oh let's not be unfair to GSP
BJ talked an enormous amount of shit before the fight.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with overblown rhetoric"
Ok, selling the fight is one thing. I understand that. I am referring to after the fight. I just have not seen or heard BJ accuse GSP of cheating.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
And filing the report...
is well within his rights and the rights of his camp. If they feel that they were put in an unfair situation it is their right to file with the NSAC. To somehow imply that they should “let it go” is unfair to them and seems to be a strange punishment. “You feel that you were cheated? Tough shit you pussy!”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 5, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
I think the claims that Penn’s life was endangered are a pretty big stretch and a hell of a shot (if subtle) at GSP. But that’s neither here nor there. Just that, depending on interpretation, Penn (and his camp more than him directly) can definitely been to be making accusations.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Now this I can agree with you on
Before it seemed you had a slightly different opinion on it. Anyway, Thiago Alves was also on Sherdog Radio yesterday and he was like ‘I dont care if Georges greases that’s gonna help me slip out so I can knock him out’. lol That interview got me so hyped! I also agreed with his opinion that BJ didnt seem ready to fight that night. He might have trained well and prepared well but he just wasn’t there on that night.
On top of all the trash talk and hate, Georges still cares…
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 5, 2009 11:02 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
:)
Derek: So, what do we do now?
Brennan Huff: We could hug?
Derek: Yeah, you’d like that, you faggot!… I’m sorry, I’m new to this.
-Step Brothers
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 5, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Hopefully there will be a major controversy this Sat at the Ultimate fight night so we can move on to the next big “scandal” .
I have to admit that if the UFC has them coach TUF it would do way better than Season 3 with Tito and Shamrock.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
Oh god...
that would probably be the biggest season ever…you’re right.
Of course I worry that the TUF participants would have to be in charge of making Penn train and not vice versa. insert rimshot
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 5, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
ugh...how did I forget that you can't...
surround something in * without bolding
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 5, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Of course I worry that the TUF participants would have to be in charge of making Penn train and not vice versa. insert rimshot
LOL!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 5, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
i cant see GSP ever doing TUF. not to say he’s self centered, but TUF would really cut into his personal training time, and I don’t think he’d take anything from it. he’s as good as he is, because he doesnt waste his time.
he doesn't need to do TUF
And I don’t want to see BJ vs GSP 3. Its been decided. Just like we don’t need Chuck Liddell vs Randy Couture 4. and didn’t need Big Nog vs Heath Herring 3.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with overblown rhetoric"
Very true, but I was just thinking of an angle that the UFC may throw at us to make things all better and/or capitalize on this.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
I think they just want this to go away.
Believe it or not, so do I.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with overblown rhetoric"
You know, you could stop posting about it until something actually HAPPENS…
Not meant to be a shot at you, Nate. I’m just so fucking sick of it all that I would rather not talk about it until there’s something to talk ABOUT. Too much speculation and opinion mongering all around this issue.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
I don’t really see a reason for a 3rd fight, I don’t think anyone would even want to see it.
Vaseline or not, GSP kicked BJ’s ass. I don’t see any reason why another fight would be any different.
he did tuf on the come back season. he just wasn’t the focal piece.
by bdw on Feb 5, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Nate, seriously....
You’re making it seem as though Kru Phil took a jar of vaseline and slabbed it on GSP’s back. The vaseline that would’ve gotten onto GSP was minimal. He wiped the majority off on his face, then most of the residue off on his temples. Anything else that got onto GSP was beyond minimal. This was an accident. Not intentional. It’s going to be addressed and I don’t think much is going to come out of it at all. They were not intentionally trying to give GSP an unfair advantage, he’s good enough that he doesn’t need an advantage. This is being blown way out of proportion and by continuously posting I think you’re just further perpetuating a witch hunt that isn’t necessary.
I think that GSP the fighter shouldn’t be blamed, but GSP the licensed professional made a big mistake. You don’t take the person whose job is to put vasiline on your face, with his bare hands, and also put him in charge of rubbing your chest and back, with his bare hands. It doesn’t even make sense to give one person those two jobs and having him perform them within a 1 minute time frame. If fighter wants a cornerman to but vasiline on his face, fine. If a fighter wants a cornerman to massage his chest and back between rounds, fine. But, don’t be an idiot and have one person do both. This is like giving the checkbook to the person who does payroll.
As Hardcharger said...
Many fighters cornerman have done the same things. It’ not like you can have 5 people in the octagon with you between rounds. It’s like a NASCAR pit crew, your corner needs to all have different jobs and to do the job quickly and efficiently. You don’t want the cornerman who is talking to you to be doing a complex massage, because it would take his mind off of giving you advice. You need to have everyone moving quickly and efficiently, and obviously this could lead to mistakes.
The reason that this is an issue is that BJ wasn’t able to maintain a high guard. People need to rewatch the first round. When GSP was pushing for a takedown against the cage, BJ’s face was all over GSP’s back and shoulders. I honestly think that this was why GSP felt “greased” in that fight. There’s no way that the RESIDUE that Kru Phil rubbed in a tiny circle had any effect on the fight. It was not intentional. It would be stupid if it was because, 1. There are cameras everywhere, the risk of being caught isn’t worth the benefits that it would provide. 2. If he was going to grease GSP’s back, he wouldn’t have done it in one tiny spot, he would’ve slabbed it on.
BJ is being BJ and looking for excuses as to why he lost the fight. He can’t admit that he simply lost. Sure, he isn’t coming out and saying that this is about making this fight become a NC (because lets face it, that’s not going to happen), but he’s calling GSP a cheater in so many words and trying to take away from GSP’s win and trying to make himself look not as bad…. And so many people are feeding right into it. And this is coming from a BJ fan.
Precisely.
I’ll also add that immediately off the bat in Rd 1, BJ’s face was smearing the vaseline he got pre-fight all over GSP’s shoulder/back area; the same area people are claiming to have noticed abnormal slippage during BJ’s weak rubber and high guard attempts. So any complaints about vaseline having any effect are null and void, as it occured due to normal transfer right away in the fight.
Yes, GSP’s corner man made a careless mistake. I’m sure this event wil have him and every other corner being extra cautious in the future. And that’s the end of that.
Well written Nate.
Can we let this the be last thread on this subject until the NSAC makes a statement or ruling. Its getting pretty old and unfair to the rest of the MMA world to let this story overwhelm the attention that other events deserve.
"Lets go do a rematch with B.J. Penn," said St. Pierre. "We’re going to do it this summer. St. Pierre-Penn III — and this time we’ll wear a rash guard. I guarantee you the result will be the same or even worse for him." (read on sherdog)
Huh… GSP so pissed he wants a rematch.
Probably because...
BJ is painting him out to be a cheating criminal! In his formal complaint to the NSAC he claimed that GSP’s use of vaseline was potentially LIFE THREATENING. I’d be pissed too, and I’d definitely want to fight my accuser again.
Legal Language by the Lawyer
Has little to do with BJ. Using Grease is potentially life-threatening because it hinders a fighter’s defense.
By that logic, GSP’s corner has little to do with him.
LOL at miniscule grease being life threatening.
Penn talked tons of crap about trying to kill GSP, and fighting to the death (and he wasn’t joking, remember). He gets no leeway now.
Hoe gullible can you be towards pre fight hype? Why don’t you go fight BJ and show him whats up. You seem to have taken his words seriously enough.
Sorry, but BJ is responsible for his own words. If he’s going to use a lawyer to make a statement that his life was in danger, he’s also going to be responsible for his comments going into the fight.
“I was just kidding” isn’t going to cut it in the legal arena.
Thanks for using the “why don’t you fight BJ” line to clearly illustrate how uninformed your argument is.
warning
don’t tell people to go fight professional fighters.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with overblown rhetoric"
b.j. bad sportsman
when the investigation is complete, gsp should be cleared of greasing. after reviewing the fight several times, i personaly can’t see any wrong doing. when mma guys fight they grapple and thier faces rub all over each other, and thier gloves get grease on them and transfered all over the body(in small amounts)so reguardless they all have some of it on them.
i went in to this fight as a bj fan, but now after all the crap talking before and after the fight i clearly think bj can’t except a loss and is a bad sportsman…….go gsp and whoop that boys arse again…you won fair and square………i’m with weezite.
The only trash talking I hear after the fight is from GSP.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
loot
you must not be paying to much attention to whats going on or being said leading up to or after the fight.
leading up to a fight = Hype...
BJ got beat pretty handily and he’s one of my fave fighters… STILL that isn’t the point… The grease isn’t an excuse, however it is a violation, and was taken very seriously by not only the commission but the other ppl aware of what happened (fighters, dana, and BJ)…
Anyone blaming BJ for this mistakes of his corner are blatantly wrong… and STILL I have yet to see a quote from BJ explicitly blaming the grease on his loss… However I have seen quotes from Rudy, and JD saying that GSP was better that night, but that the application of vaseline makes it difficult for a fighter to defend themselves… For anyone to try to say it definitively did or did not is ridiculous to me. The whole point is that violations were broken, and noone should be in an uproar when someone mentions it, or files a grievance.
And to clarify my stance on this matter, I don’t necessarily doubt GSP’s word on this. I do think his corner messed up bad and should be investigated and punished (the Dana White position).
Thanks for clarifying your position on this.
PS: My favorite part was when you referred to yourself in the third person, Nate.
busted!
show me a quote if you’re going to make an accusation like that.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with overblown rhetoric"
Don’t you mean, “Show Kid Nate a quote”?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Brent doesn’t understand what the big deal is…
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 5, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
what i don’t understand is how people are saying BJ isn’t saying the “greasing” is the reason he lost….him saying “George was the better fighter, he won, but the greasing neutralized my high guard which was my whole plan in beating him.” I’’m pretty sure THAT is him saying the grease is why he lost…If he thinks George cheated, fine, but don’t give us this BS “He was the better fighter, but he cheated.”
vaseline - which equals bovine excretment
Lets get serious and think all of this through to a logical conclusion, which is the one thing that always seems to be missing. First there was no conspiracy, secondly it was UNINTENTIONAL, third it made no difference in the outcome of the fight, which is all that really matters if there was something to take action for. The trainer made a mistake in the heat of the moment, which he should simply be told about and reprimanded for at most, not loose his job as it did not affect ther outcome one bit. GSP, BJ and the commission know this. BJ got his ass kicked and is wining about it; thats all, much to his loss in the long run. BJ just hurt himself in the UFC and with his fans, retire and fade to memory if this is all you have to offer your fans.
LDO
First there was no conspiracy, secondly it was UNINTENTIONAL, third it made no difference in the outcome of the fight
I will send Kizer the results of your investigation.
That was meant as a reply to the person who rides the wind.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
GSP: “He put one hand on my chest and he made a circle behind my back. It helps my breathing.”
So in the future, if he’s going to be using bullshit, do-nothing, homeopathic witch-doctoring, can he at least have it done by somebody other than the guy in charge of smearing lubricant on him? Shit, I’ll be happy to be the guy drawing shapes on his back – I can even do polygons!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
It's embarassing that you keep posting articles about this
Keith Kizer was right there.
Keith Kizer was right there and was unable to stop GSP from entering rd 2 with grease on his upper body.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
No kidding, because grease got on GSP’s upper body directly from BJ’s face when BJ’s face rubbed it all over just seconds into Round 1.
Thanks for the revelation.
I’m not sure why you are staying in denial mode. Greg Jackson, Phil Nurse, Keith Kizer, and Dana White are all in agreement that what happened between Rds 1 and 2, and 2 and 3 was wrong.
If you are for legalizing the application of lubricants on the bodies of fighters because it can get there anyway, just say so. That is as valid a viewpoint as others.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not denying anything. I’ve said from the beginning that Nurse made a careless mistake. The result was a small amount of vaseline transfer from the hand he was using to put vaseline on GSP’s brow.
What’s also clear is that BJ’s recently vaselined face transfers vaseline directly to GSP’s shoulders and back at the beginning of Rd 1 when they clinch. If GSP was “extra slippery” (none of the gifs or ground action points to this), then we can refer to the initial cause of grease on GSP’s body (magical grease, BTW, that only helped GSP and didn’t help Penn escape from the bottom).
I’m not denying anything. I’ve said from the beginning that Nurse made a careless mistake. The result was a small amount of vaseline transfer from the hand he was using to put vaseline on GSP’s brow.
That is against the rules, right?
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Not against the written rules, obviously.
Now, were you going to address GSP fighting with grease on his body from Penn’s face, or were you just intent on meandering away from the point?
The grease from the fighters faces is an accepted part of the fight game. The application of lubricants directly to the body is against the rules. The rules state that excessive use is prohibited, the officials from NSAC interpret that and communicate to the fighters and corners that excessive equals any.
Again, if you feel that the use of Vaseline on the body should be legal, or should be interpreted to mean that you can apply it to the body that’s fine, but that is not what is at issue.
To address your bigger point, I think you are making the argument that it made no difference to the outcome of the fight. Whether or not it affected the outcome of the fight is irrelevant, ie. if someone used steroids and lost, it would not matter in assessing whether there was an infraction.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't this over already?
If I never hear the word grease again I’ll be a happy man.
but..
grease IS the word
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 5, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
OH COME ON!
It was gold!
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 5, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
You haven’t been paying attention. The value of gold is dropping.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 5, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Zing!
Nice…
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 5, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
...well played sir
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 5, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
You’re beginning to hit on the multiplicity of the situation. Yes, Nurse accidentally rubbed residual grease on GSP, which according to Kizer isn’t against the official rules, but is against unwritten rules that he claims are articulated to every fighter and cornerman before every fight.
My initial post stated that GSP entered Rd 2 with grease on his body, which of course is true, because grease was rubbed on his back and shoulders from BJ Penn’s face at the beginning of Rd 1.
I understand you trying to make the steroid comparison, but it doesn’t hold up to this case, because partial or non excessive use of steroids isn’t allowed, nor is it expected that steroid use will occur during the normal course of a fight.
Again, Vaseline applied to the face and the spreading of it during contact with the other fighter is an expected part of the game. GSP entered rd 2 with grease on his body because he was rubbed with it and the commission, who was able to witness it and realize that it was illegal, were unable to make any attempt at wiping it off.
GSP entered rd 2 with grease that was applied directly to his body by his corner.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
No, GSP entered Rd 2 with grease on his body from transfer from BJ Penn’s face. Him also having vaseline rubbed in by Nurse doesn’t change the fact that the grease was already there.
The NSAC is already in the octagon, right next to the fighters and the corner men, between every round. You act as if they weren’t there. They already are there. Their job is to watch the corners between every round and wipe off excess water and vaseline.
Interesting to note that Penn’s cut man is also seen touching Penn’s back, neck, and the back of his head with hands that also have vaseline on them.
Your argument is that it’s ok to apply Vaseline to the body because it gets smeared around from the face anyway. That’s interesting but really not important.
The commission had been warned to look out for this before the fight, yet even seeing it they were caught off guard and were unable to respond the first time it was witnessed.
“The first round, one of the inspectors that was on the outside of the cage came over to me and said it looked to him that when the cornerman, who I think in that case was Phil Nurse, put the Vaseline on Georges’ face then rubbed his shoulders — which you see the guys rubbing the other guy’s shoulders to help him out — he didn’t wipe off his hands between doing that. I said, ‘Well, I’m going to watch very closely after this round.’”
Kizer watched intently to see if the questionable actions would be repeated as the second round came to a close.
http://mmajunkie.com/news/13895/kizer-penn-yet-to-file-ufc-94-appeal-st-pierres-corner-could-face-action.mma
Georges St. Pierre’s corner apparently applied a small amount of Vaseline to the fighter’s back and shoulders during his dominant victory over BJ Penn.
Keith Kizer, the executive director of the Nevada Athletic Commission, said an inspector assigned to monitor St. Pierre’s corner noticed after the first round that one of the cornermen applied the substance to the fighter’s face and then rubbed his shoulders.
“Whether it was intentional or not, it was improper to do so,” Kizer said Monday.
http://www.lvrj.com/sports/38849287.html
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
“Your argument is that it’s ok to apply Vaseline to the body because it gets smeared around from the face anyway. That’s interesting but really not important.”
No, that’s not my argument. Never was.
GSP already had grease on his body due to transfer from Penn. Claims of being slippery are null and void.
“The commission had been warned to look out for this before the fight, yet even seeing it they were caught off guard and were unable to respond the first time it was witnessed.”
They were warned? They’ve stated that they were the ones who told Penn’s camp about it. Which is it?
Whether they were caught off guard or not is irrelevant. Grease was already there from Penn, and we’ve established that Nurse made a mistake.
You’re having a hard time following the discussion. Nurse made a mistake. Penn already greased GSP by the time the mistake was made. GSP entered Rd 2 with grease on him from Penn’s face. Penn’s cut man also used his vaseline hands in touching Penn’s back, shoulders, and back of head.
Nahabedian claims that Penn’s camp told the commission prior to the bout of the possibility of St. Pierre greasing.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/2/4/749402/bj-penn-s-lawyer-asks-neva
Serra reportedly gave BJ’s camp a heads up before the fight that GSP was slippery in his fight.
You keep repeating that greasing up the body is null and void because it gets spread from the face anyways, then you deny that that is your point. Which is it?
It doesn’t matter at all if there is Vaseline on the body from grappling, the rules are there to prevent the adding of lubricants to the body by the fighter or his corner.
Whether or not Nurse and Jackson made a mistake or not, or whether GSP intended to cheat or not has no bearing on whether Vaseline was applied to his body.
There are multiple quotes from Dana and Kizer repeating over and over that the actions were illegal, improper and unfair.
I am not going to repost them, you will just have to catch up on your own.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
“You keep repeating that greasing up the body is null and void because it gets spread from the face anyways, then you deny that that is your point. Which is it?”
My, my, you still can’t follow? I stated that GSP entered Rd 2 with grease on his body from Penn. It’s not that hard to follow. It’s not also mutually exclusive to say that, and that Nurse made a mistake in using not wiping off his hands before rubbing GSP’s back.
If you want to go round and round, Kizer also stated that what was done wasn’t against the written rules.
The outcome of this is likely to be limited to Nurse being reprimanded for making a mistake, because even the mistake had no effect on the outcome, as GSP already had grease transferred to him at that point, as always happens in fights.
What point are you trying to make by repeating that GSP was greasy from from grappling? That fact has zero relevance, the rules do not say that if you get greasy in the Octagon then it is ok to apply more to the body.
What point are you trying to make?
And to repeat, the outcome of the fight has no bearing on whether applying Vaseline to the body is illegal.
Repeating- The outcome of the fight has no bearing on whether the action was improper.
“Whether it was intentional or not, it was improper to do so,” Kizer said Monday.
…“Again, I don’t know if that was a trick they were trying to play on us or not, but regardless, it’s improper.”
"Obviously it’s illegal and definitely unfortunate to Penn and also unfortunate to St. Pierre."- Keith Kizer
Dana- "I think that using grease or Vaseline is completely illegal,…You can not rub grease on any part of the body besides the face. "
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
"What point are you trying to make by repeating that GSP was greasy from from grappling? "
That point would be the original point I made in my original post, before you attempted to derail the point with numerous attempts at diversion:
Of course GSP entered Rd 2 with grease on his body. He accumulated grease on his body from Rd 1 where Penn was rubbing his greasy face all over GSP’s back and shoulders. It’s absurd to think he wouldn’t enter Rd 2 with grease on him.
Best of luck keeping up with this simple point, and my statement that Nurse’s unintentional act was deemed improper by Kizer.
Again- the fact that GSP had grease on him from grappling has no bearing on the discussion, why keep bringing it up?
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
You have an astounding inability to follow a simple progression of discussion. It was stated that GSP entered Rd 2 with grease on his back. I stated that this obviously was true, since BJ’s face rubbed grease all over GSP’s back and shoulders. It’s really that simple.
Nurse’s mistake has nothing to do with that discussion, because it has no significance, even though it was a careless oversight.
It really gets no simpler than that, so quit trying to blend these facts into a separate argument you’re having with nobody.
You keep saying that GSP had Vaseline on his back from grappling? Who cares?
What does it have to do with anything? It is totally and completely irrelevant. Simply has nothing to do with the actions of the men in GSP’s corner.
It is a distraction, a distraction that you keep trying to bring into the mix.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
What Hardcharger is trying to say isn't that hard to understand.
All he’s saying is that the vaseline that got on GSP’s back from BJ’s face had more of an effect on the fight than the residue from vaseline-ing the face from Kru Phil… He’s not saying that it’s okay that Phil did it because GSP already had vaseline on his back from Penn’s face.
Well, at least we’re at the point now that people are able to admit that there was grease on St Pierre’s back. For days now people have been arguing that it had been wiped off by the commission or that GSP just had genetically slipperier sweat than regular humans.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
The fact that GSP may be slippier than others has in no way been refuted by anything that’s come to light regarding this situation.
GSP having grease on him from BJ’s face and from Nurse in no way preclude him from being naturally sweatier and slipperyer than other fighters.
It is a meaningless fact, it has nothing to do with what everyone saw happen in the corner.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
In any case, the fact that there is grease already on the body and whether or not applying more to the body effects the outcome of the fight has no relevance.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 5, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Let Dana know you want a rematch with no LUBE!
Lubricants in the sack, not in the octagon! GSP vs BJ Penn
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=51464576684
But… I don’t. It would be a useless exercise in futility and I"m not interested in seeing Penn get smashed again.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 5, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
I like this page a lot better Nate. It doesn’t feel like such a witch hunt/ lynch mob. Good job and good read.
I certainly hope that GSP’s corner is extra careful about where the vaseline goes. You don’t want something like this to taint your legacy.
As Jacob “Stitch” Duran said on Fight Network Radio this week – there will be a lot of small changes that people may not even notice. Like a fighters camp not touching him after he gets checked and wiped down before entering the ring and also no applying any Vas by the corners.
He also went to say that MMA is still being figured out and there are still a lot of hang ups from boxing being used, this just happens to be one of them.
Some of GSP’s past opponents now accuse GSP of being greased (well, only the times when GSP beat them, not vice versa for Hughes and Serra): Sherk, Hughes, Serra, BJ, Mayhem Miller.
That would make GSP the biggest cheater in the history of the sport. It would also show he’s pretty adept at cheating since UFC 52, because no one has said anything to the commission and he’s never been caught “red handed”… until the latest fight, where for some reason, instead of cheating the way he got away with 5 times previously, his corner has a brain fart and does the cheating out in the open, while being filmed in front of the commission.
An alternate argument: the fact that there in uniform consistency in GSP’s greasiness is indicative of the fact he’s just a greasy bastard. He doesn’t have any hair on his body, and he sweats profusely.
A compromise argument: he is a greasy bastard, but against BJ this timethe extra vaseline on his shoulders and back rubbed on by Phil Nurse did interfere with BJ’s guard. That is to say, it is entirely possible that GSP never used vaseline before, but was still slippery against Sherk, Hughes et al. AND that he was extra slippery in this fight against BJ because of the vaseline. Am I missing something?
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