Georges St Pierre is a beautiful fighter. His skills, his willingness to learn, his strategies are things of beauty. But this taints him in my eyes. And that makes me sad. I’ve had a rough couple of years and watching GSP blossom has been a real bright spot in my life. No more.

Clearly we need rules changes. The rules we have now were largely written for boxing, that needs to change. Vaseline should probably only be applied to the eyebrows and to cuts, only in regulated amounts and only by cutmen working for the athletic commission.

It strikes me that you’re conflating two issues here. Either GSP and co. are cheaters, and the rules are fine, or GSP is not a cheater, and we need to adjust the rules to better represent what the sport should be about. GSP can’t both be a cheater and the rules need to change to reflect that. I don’t see why you feel this taints his win and his skills and strategies. I don’t want Nurse and Jackson to grease him up anymore, but this is an issue with the rules and regulations of the sport, not the individuals.

i agee. take vaseline out of mma, that way no fighter will have an excuse after gsp kicks their ass.

Very well written article!

I wonder how much outrage there would be if it wasn’t GSP who was the one with Vaseline on his back. What if it was, say, Rashad Evans? What if it were Machida? B.J.? Brock Lesnar? The very fact that it was GSP — the humble, quiet French Canadian who slaves away in the gym — and not some brash, loud-mouthed fighter may have blinded a few people, I think.

Regardless of the fact that GSP was pounding B.J. into oblivion anyway, it’s such a shame that many people will look back and only remember the fact that GSP had Vaseline on his back.

The thing that is so upsetting to me is that everyone is saying these things months or years after George beat them…and badly…if it is cheating, they should have said something during the fight…it just seems ridiculous to me that they are all coming out now…say it when it happened or shut up…it makes them sound bitter…and I don’t think it’s fair to talk about GSP like he disgraced the sport…we don’t even know for sure if there was definitely grease on or not..it’s a he said he said thing. Greg Jackson never apologized for greasing…he said he didn’t think they did it at all and I think this whole thing has gotten WAY out of hand.

This controversy is going to stick around with the hardcore fans forever same as their last split decision and the two disagreeing sides will never see eye to eye on the issue, but this will fade away and the mainstream will soon forget about it.

Everyone talks about how huge GSP vs Alves will be but rarely does anyone bring up that Thiago Alves was overweight for the Hughes fight and didn’t tell Hughes so he had to cut all his weight and also was caught using diuretics help him cut weight a couple of years ago. To me the amount GSP had put on him (before being wiped twice) would’ve affected the match about the same as when a fighter with poor BJJ repeatedly grabs the fence, just enough times to not get penalized, to prevent a good BJJ guy from getting top control. Another example could be Penn grabbing Hughes’ shorts to get back control in their second fight. Could it affect the out come of the fight? Possibly. Is it right? No. Will the commission review it after the fight and change the outcome? No.

I think would be a good idea for cutmen to be in charge of vaseline and Phil Nurse will probably only get a slap on the wrist if there is a complaint made but I don’t see much else happening. If you lose respect for GSP and his abilities and don’t rank him in the elite of MMA I think you will be in the minority. I will still be his fan regardless and this will not stop me from watching MMA in the least.

I will be curious to see what Fitch has to say as he never had his guard passed in the UFC until GSP fought him.

No I think it is important that they all said he greased, yet are only NOW saying it…wrong is wrong and if they felt that way they should have acted like MEN and said something…I think this whole thing is insane

THen why didn’t anyone make a big deal about it then? If it’s so awful it was awful then too…so fans think it’s okay until it happens to BJ?

No he didn’t…they don’t know…they said it LOOKED like it…that’s the point

I’m not saying there was absolutely no grease…it’s the fact that they DON’T know if there was grease applied…hence why he was WIPED DOWN TWICE

I just think crucifying GSP is going overboard….

They need to re-define the rule.

1) Vaseline can only be applied by someone outside of the ring.

2) If a fighter requires a “touch up” between round he can go to the side of the ring and have the same person who did it before the fight do it again.

3) Anything but water is banned inside the octagon for a fighters rest period between rounds.

4) No tweaking of the nipples with vaseline as this limits the versatility of the triple decker pecker wrecker.

Nate, I love and respect your enthusiasm for the sport, but you way off base here. It seems to me that you are blatantly saying GSP and his corner cheated and you feel his performance is tainted because of the whole grease gate. Why are you not seeing it as an honest yet stupid mistake? When Big Foot Silva was suspended for steroids and presented proof of his innocence, you had previous posts “supporting his innocence” or the “CSAC is screwing him.” Now, I am not saying he is guilty or that the CSAC is need of a major overhaul, I am asking you if you are giving Big Foot the benefit of the doubt, why not GSP, why not see this as an honest mistake? With Big Foot, how do you know he innocent>? He could of probably been juicing and hope it would be out of his system, by the time of his fight. He presented his case to the CSAC, but his suspension. Sean Sherk has at least some credibility because he was reduced to six months. It was not the result he wanted, but he presented strong case where he was overturned (partially) and Big Foot was not.

And, if we are going to taint wins, let’s put an asterisk on Josh Barnett title win over Couture, or Sean Sherks’s win over Florian and his title defense against Franca (well bad example seeing how Franca tested positive too), Brock Lesnar win over Randy, seeing he probably blatantly grabbed cage (I believe it was an accident, but never know).

Zach, over at Fight Opinion should be the last to talk about tainted wins, why does he never discuss his boy Barnett,

It’s unfortunate that it happened, but there’s no reason why GSP should apologize – he came to fight and that’s all there was to it. GSP is 110% focused whenever he walks into the octagon – maybe he’s different from other fighters who are almost more like entertainers and feed off the aura of their own awesomeness, but you can feel the intensity that GSP has when he’s walking in the octagon.

He doesn’t even know wtf is going on when Nurse is working on him, he’s staring straight ahead and nodding and/or looking over to Jackson and listening.

I don’t disagree that vaseline would make his shoulders potentially harder to grip, but for cryin out loud, have you seen his f’in shoulders?? The man is built like a bodybuilder. His delts and especially his lateral delts are bursting out from the side. They’re physically round and curved significantly more than every other fighter out there. He’s not just ripped, he’s built. Physics alone will tell you that it would be significantly harder for BJ’s slick legs to grip onto GSP’s slick – let’s assume from sweat – shoulders. High guard is not invincible either fyi. And the whole greasing him on the back is wtf ridiculous as BJ doesn’t even touch the square of GSP’s back where you can see Nurse massaging his hands.

And for the record I fully agree vaseline should be removed or at least given only to cutmen for application to the face. And it’s unfortunate that this will taint the victory, but there should be no question that GSP was bulldozing through BJ’s defenses, not because of grease but because the guy is physically stronger and larger and you can see that BJ is exhausted and even in the 2nd last gif at the top, his leg isn’t slipping because somehow GSP’s shoulders are so slick, it’s slipping because – take a look at GSP’s right leg which is forcing itself forward – the guy is physically moving and pushing right through BJ’s guard.

Don’t tell me that’s not possible cause a) you can tell BJ’s leveraged grip isn’t that leveraged as GSP’s arms are slightly bent meaning he can clearly force himself vertically higher (and look at the gif and you will see that he does exactly that); and b) BJ’s arms aren’t even able to hold GSP’s head down before his legs slide – GSP thrusts his head up with his arms and his legs. We all watch a bunch of grown men rub and punch each other, but I’m quite certain most of us can understand the simple physics of a weak grip and a strong force pushing up+forward.

There’s nothing to apologize for from GSP. If anything most of the fighters he’s beaten and who are complaining share a fascinating common trait in that they all like to think of themselves as the top dog. Until GSP came along and handed them their ass. Mayhem, Serra, Hughes, BJ?? You guys are deluding yourselves if you think they have half the insane commitment/motivation that GSP has. The guy’s a workaholic, it shows, and like any occupation, when you think you’re the shit and a smarter, better, more hard-working guy comes along and takes your job, most people aren’t going to sit there and say “Oh clearly I wasn’t working hard enough and he’s better qualified for the job”.

It’s funny because I haven’t heard Fitch come out and talk shit about greasing and he was on the ground a ton during his fight. But surprisingly Fitch is just a farm-bred redneck with no ego and a tough as nails attitude. Meanwhile the egomaniacs are going apeshit. Go figure.

and lets all play nice and talk about some of the other good fights that happened on the card. LIke machidas ect. His most awesome performance ever. Lets slip off the vasaline, wait till the smoke clears and see what happens.

There has been so much trash talk its turning me off MMA. Bring some of the happy back ya buggars

i wonder what percentage of those of claim “GSP cheated” picked BJ Penn to win the fight?

The way that fight went down GSP could have covered himself in sandpaper and still quit BJ after the forth. It sucks that the vaseline is completely tarnishing his win in some people’s mind. I still don’t see this as being intentional, and therefore I don’t think GSP himself should be getting a bad name from all of this. If people feel he does deserve a bad name from this then you might as well include Rashad Evans, Jardine, Marqardt, and the many other great fighters under the Jackson Camp, and I don’t think that will happen. This was an accident plain and simple, GSP had a better gameplan, was better prepared physically and mentally and if for some strange reason if there was a re-match, which im sure BJ doesn’t want, then we will see the same results. GSP’s weight was the real problem for BJ, not a small amount of wiped away vaseline! I say now we focus on upcoming cards and start talking about Brock vs Mir, Penn vs KenFlo, GSP vs Alves, and possibiities of UFC 100 and who we would all like to see as the main event!

The tone of your last few posts motivated me to register to post this. I’ve known Luke for a while now. What I liked about whatever project he was on was he was the perfect mix of “fanboy” and objective journalist. I know BE is a blog, but your posts on this topic have been coming almost completely from the “fanboy” side of things. I come to BE to leave the cess pool that the UG or Sherdog becomes after controversies like this happen. And the tone of your last few posts on this topic has been perfectly aligned with the spirit of your average dumbass on the UG.

What I would like to know why you can’t take GSP’s word on this when he says he acknowledges it happened, he had no prior knowledge that it was to happen, and it won’t happen again. It was a mistake and oversight on Phil Nurse’s part. But your posts on this almost borderline attack GSP and his camp’s integrity. Your comment on the Matt Hughes blog was over the top when someone said how it was funny Matt was cherry picking his fights with Georges when commenting on him being “slippery”. Your response was that is seems he’s gotten better as adding greasing to his repertoire now. It just shows your lack of objectivity in the matter. And that’s fine, you can be a “fanboy” and post. It’s your right to do so. But just realize you can read this kind of dreck on the UG or Sherdog by your average internet dumbass poster.

I’m sorry, but this type of hyper-reactionary thinking is making it very difficult for me to continue going to MMA blogs like Bloody Elbow and Cage Potato. You admit (as do others) that it had no impact on the fight, yet you believe the fight was ruined?! That makes absolutely no sense. Yes, there need to be rule changes, but for you to go on some kind of crusade is ridiculous. Honestly, just take off the tinfoil hats, please. I need to get over my addiction for this site because I feel dirty just being here now. People can give up MMA if they want- I would rather give up Bloody Elbow.

Don’t do this to GSP victory man…we all saw it, IF it was a lot of vaseline, whole body and etc, ok, GSP is a cheater. But it WASN’T. Three little spots, non intentional and cleaned TWICE afterwards.

Vaseline should NOT be banned..it’s impossible to do it because it would be horrible to fighters, they would get cut very easily. One thing everybody should now is that, when you fight, you usualy get greased up during the fight…mainly on arms and chest. Try do do a training session once and you know what i mean, so it’s completely normal.

BJ camp tried to build up an excuse and the successfully done it. Backed up by a guy who never liked GSP (Hughes).

I am from Brazil, i train regularly and i love BJ and his acomplishments, but this time he went to far and, honestly Kid Nate, i think your went too far too.

Don’t take this Victory away from GSP. Blame Greg Jackson, Blame Phil Nurse but just don’t take this victory away from GSP.

PS: As i’m from Brasil, english is not my first language so i am sorry for any english mistakes.

why is it that all the fighters that gsp beat are now moaning he was “greasy”? this is pathetic I didnt here anything at the time, there are referee’s and officials who know what you can and cant do and this should have nothing to do with gsp, has it got anything to do with the fact he isnt american??? I know bisping doesnt get any credit from the us fans ( especially on this forum) even though he was very very close to beating rashad where he was undersized, he beat a “high on roids” leben and doesnt get any credit, lets face it, Anderson, GSP MACHIDA and soon to be bisping are the future not american wrestlers, it just all sounds of sour grapes, bj got smashed and the credit should go to gsp not to hear everyone trying to find a reason why there golden boy penn got out classed in every aspect.

You admit (as do others) that it had no impact on the fight, yet you believe the fight was ruined?!

Wow, my sentiments exactly! If people truly believed it didn’t have a significant impact on the fight, they wouldn’t be pushing this matter to the death (to the death George!). The truth is people believe BJ’s guard could have been neutralized because of the Vasoline, and that could be the reason he got his ass whooped so badly (coupled with his lack of training of course). Why are people so interested in this? Because they truly want to know who’s the better fighter between the two. Why aren’t they content with a re-match? Because they know that would take half a year to set up and they can’t wait that long. Clearly, if there was a re-match, and BJ got a similar beat-down, everyone would be silenced. SO, if you feel that strongly about what happened, petition for a re-match instead of trying to change the past. Also, since when does Vasoline make a fighter quit out of a match? And, even with the small amounts of Vasoline, I thoroughly enjoyed GSP beating the shit out of Baby J for all the trash talking he did. I wonder if he took his own advice when he got back to his hotel room. If a split decision was unsettling to Penn-man’s ego, I wonder what this beat-down did for him…Ok ok, you caugt me, I’m a GSP fan, and still am because you can tell from the way the man talks and trains that he’s no cheater…Ok flame on

“But one other thing really made me dislike Pat Militech: persistent rumors that he slathered himself in grease before, during and after fights.”

One of the best pieces I’ve ever read on BE. But I have to ask – why on Earth would Pat Militech slather himself in grease AFTER a fight?

Obviously this is a passionate issue for many. Obviously there is huge debate that can never accurately be settled as it is a matter of opinion combined with flimsy evidence and conjecture.

I believe the underlying root of the argument is just and fair (I’m not referring to the dubious argument that GSP is himself a premeditating cheater). We need to see a clarification of both the rules and procedures to ensure that this is not an issue going forward because honestly- this sucks! People are watching two of their favorite fighters both go down in flames because of this and it’s not fun. BJ fans get to deal with the accusations that he has a legacy of being a lazy, mouthy, whiner who can’t accept defeat. GSP fans get to deal with accusations that he is a cheater. Nobody wins in this case. It’s gone beyond the old “my fighter is better than yours haha” to a downward spiral that has grown into a monster with eight arms.

I’m bowing out of this one until it dies down and the facts come out. This is MMA- something that we enjoy. It’s entertainment. I have my belief that GSP is innocent but that may or may not be correct. Regardless, participating and reading about both sides ad nauseum is affecting my ability to enjoy the sport and the blogosphere. This controversy is not worthy of destroying that!

Everybody take a deep breath, let the people involved sort it out, and wait to see the results.

Finally someone writes exactly what I’ve been posting in the comments. GSP is tainted in my eyes also and every fight he’s ever had I have to believe he was cheating since he is, you know, a cheater…