UFC 94 Winners and Losers
by Luke Thomas on Feb 3, 2009 10:20 AM EST
in MMA News
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I enumerate the list over at Sherdog. One notable winner:
MMA journalism
One of the more welcome developments in MMA is coverage from mainstream traditional media outlets. While the coverage can leave much to be desired in terms of analysts’ erudition about the sport or even skills in writing and broadcasting, ESPN is actually getting matters right. Honing their craft and finding best practices as they go, they’ve finally found a format that no one else offers; namely, using professional and active fighters at the highest level for on-air extended analysis.
There are numerous capable analysts in MMA, but unlike other sports that get significant media treatment, MMA fighters have heretofore not adopted such a prominent role in offering insight from the inside. And between the experiences of Frank Mir and Kenny Florian, the ability to cover a wide swath of topics with expertise is there. There is very likely a ceiling on the number of fighters available to do this sort of work at the level Florian and Mir deftly do it, but that ESPN is finding some real value-added content is encouraging nevertheless.
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the big winner here is Dana white...
With BJ losing, he doesnt have the problem of handling 2 weight classes with a single champ.. Especially when BJ presumably still wants to go for another belt in another weight class (185). Its either that, or he retires as the champ holding 2 belts.. then what dana would get is 2 weight classes without a champ. The LW’s without a star, and the WW’s with its marketable star who just lost its glimmer..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
i did.
the divisions win.. But its dana thats partying on the inside.. Its gonna be his headaches if the 2 or even 3 divisions are compromised.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
what i dont like though is that Lyoto might not even get a title shot.. They’d rather put evans on hold for more than half a year to check out how the rampage situation plays itself than give lyoto a title shot right away.
So i guess he can potentially be kind of a ‘loser’ too even if he provided his best performance in the octagon..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
*plays out* ..sory.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
I still think Rampage plus another win is more deserving than Machida.
Machida really impressed me on Saturday, and adding that win to his resume is great, but I don’t think it’s puts him over Rampage resume wise. Yes, 14-0 is impressive, but not as impressive as a former champ coming off two top 10 wins.
BJ Apologists
What is with the hate on BJ? He wasn’t the one that was playing “fast and loose” with the rules.
I think the biggest “LOSERS” are the “Wilfully Blind GSP Defenders” – namely a few writers on this site.
Is it as big of a deal as some are trying to make it out to be? No.
But it’s certainly not something that needs to be swept under the rug with:
(i) I don’t think it affected the outcome of the fight very much, if at all;
(ii) the incompetent handling of the incident at the fight by the now ass-covering NSAC completely absolves all involved and washes their hands;
(iii) this is just sour grapes from BJ, his team and his fans. I’m sorry I didn’t see BJ skirting the rules.
Fact of the matter is, we criticize boxing for all of it’s shady occurrences (no this does not compare to loaded gloves), but mma is going to have it’s own issues and in order to preserve the integrity of the sport we need fans and writers to proactively attack the issues at hand rather than ignore them as insignificant and hope they go away.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
FWIW
I am a huge GSP fan – I laid money on him, made a sig bet on him and am a fellow Canadian – so this is far from some unbridled hatred towards one of my all-time fav fighters.
But this incident is something that tarnished a great achievement and apparently isn’t the first time he or his camp has faced an accusation – this time it was caught on camera. I think that as a sport we owe it to the sport to full investigate this issue in order to exonerate or punish those involved, because I don’t want to hear things like, “Oh they looked the other way because he’s their biggest star, etc.”, from people down the road that try to discredit the sport or its athletes.
The NSAC should be embarassed for their handling of the incident and for not taking charge and taking the extra time to thoroughly wipe down GSP and admonish his corner so that we wouldn’t even be having to debate the issue.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
“What is with the hate on BJ?”
There is positively zero “hate” on BJ in the article. I am a monster, monster BJ fan. But to presume there isn’t a cadre of his fans desperately clinging to the notion that GSP cheated is foolish. Look at this site’s traffic that it got from fans at bjpenn.com the day after the fight. I’m certain they don’t speak for all fans of Penn – they certainly don’t speak for me – but they exist.
In all honesty, I stayed away from really getting involved in the comments because I saw how ridiculous it was getting.
If that’s true that the spike in comments (and idiocy) is from the bjpenn.com fans, I apologize and concede your point. It just seemed like the intelligence of posters on this site had reached some Sherdog-ian levels on some of the things I read – and I wept for the future of the site. I guess after an event as big as that you’re going to get a real influx of non-regular posters who have no real interest in adding anything of value.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
so luke. Its there such a thing as bad traffic for you?
or as long as they follow the rules, is it just the more the merrier?
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
*is there*
i’ve got to learn to read before pressing the post button haha.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
To be honest, I’d like to say the more the merrier, but that’s just not true. I am thankful for every single person who visits BE, but ultimately, this isn’t the right site for everyone. Some people just have to spew hate and bile and cannot control themselves. There are places for them, they just need to realize that.
good answer haha. Cause thats really what i like about BE.. Sure there are the occasional pain in the ass angry and/or ignorant people, but still, overall this place has better people..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
It’s something we’ve come to expect now. After big events where a Brock Lesnar or Kimbo Slice are fighting (or in this case, Penn vs. GSP), we get a TON of new people to the site who realize over time this isn’t for them. It takes a while and is brutal while they are here, but they eventually leave.
or learn to behave.
The bigger bummer was that several of our long time community members were the worst offenders.
I hated banning or even just hiding comments by members with long track records of good contributions.
We’re doing our best to police the community, but ultimately we’re going to need everyone’s help to police it as well.
So bizarre
…how a divisive issue, even one that has little direct impact on someone can bring out the worst in some people.
I’ve seen well respected, long serving corporate lawyers do some absolutely bat-shit insane (tm – LT) things just because they thought their point was right and the other person was wrong, I mean in the end you’re only advocating for another person’s side and the idea that you need to throw out all civility and common sense can be a bit shocking – especially at the cost of making you look foolish. Obviously in this comparison there’s a bit more riding on the corporate lawyer’s issues, but I think the gist of it still stands.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
NEVER.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
p.s. You retard.
:)
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
So bizarre …how a divisive issue, even one that has little direct impact on someone can bring out the worst in some people.
I often find that pretty odd myself, Gaijin. Sports tend to make people crazy sometimes. Or do people make sports crazy? Hmm…
I guess it's just human nature...
…to get really emotionally invested in some issues. The one criticism that people make about “debating” is that it only serves to further entrench people into the views that they are defending or championing, as they are looking for more and more ways to point-counterpoint their “opponent”.
Lord knows, I’m not above getting pretty entrenched in arguments myself and later take a step back and wonder what the hell got into me, because it can be so ridiculous.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
I can’t see a good reason not to give Machida a shot at the title. It seems to me that a title fight between undefeated fighters is a rare and exciting thing.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Can you explain why you think he won't get a title shot?
Surely you are not implying in this article that it is because he doesn’t speak English well.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
No, of course not. My thought on him not getting a title shot is that I suspect the UFC wants to give him another opportunity to showcase him. Plus they may want to match him up with Rampage before Evans. But no, it’s got nothing to do with speaking or not speaking English. That has to do with how seriously he takes his career and image and that he’s probably taken some of the criticism about his style seriously.
He is obviously trying to improve his English as well as his image. He said he would KO Silva during the pre fight press conference and he delivered. Machida vs Page is interesting but I feel like Machida has earned the shot at the title at this point. I love a Page vs Evans fight but I love the undefeated title fight scenario more. It is not out of line to say Machida needs another big win before the title shot but I am personally ready for it now.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
so you really think he becomes champ by 2010?
i bet machida gets the strap before 2009 ends..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t care who wins the fight really. I just want to see an title fight between undefeated Machida and undefeated Evans. Personally I am leaning toward Machida winning this match. I would love to see what Jackson and Co. would cook up, strategy wise, to deal with Machida.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
i actually think evans is a bigger threat to lyoto than page is.. Both have power and good hands but Evans is quicker and possibly (or most likely) has the better coach and gameplan than rampage, who i think would get leg kicked to death again if matched up to lyoto.
but rampage vs evans, now thats a different story.. I think it’s, who hits the big shot first, wins..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
At this point
Rashad vs. Rampage (if he wins), is just far more marketable from a selling standpoint. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that Machida would be better served to have another “exciting” performance against another highly ranked fighter before they give him a title shot and all of the “responsibilities” that attach to it. Say the winner of Chuck vs. Shogun???
If he wins his next fight and Rampage wins, he’ll get the winner of Rashad vs. Rampage – and that fight will be white hot.
If Rampage wins, I think they’ll be all but forced to throw him into the mix against Rashad.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
so you think its more marketable cause both guys are african american?
or cause people may think machida vs evans could be boring?
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Joking?
I think it’s more marketable because Rampage and Rashad are very popular fighters, especially amongst the casual fan base. Rampage is a former champion, has had nothing but “exciting fights” in the octagon and is a very charismatic guy. Rashad is the champ, is starting to become a real finisher and has been coming into his own as a unique and marketable fighter.
Machida is just beginning to shake off the image of being a “boring fighter”, no matter how unfairly that tag has been affixed.
Rashad vs. Rampage is just going to be a fight that you can package and sell a whole lot easier at this point.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
im serious.. but dont think im racist or anything. im just asking. Cause i think that fight would be HUGE.. as you said, it would be 2 great guys fighting, but they would pull in a wider audience if they market it right.. It could be really big as rome(?) i think explained before.. Im a biiiiig machida fan, but i was all up for this fight after page beat wandy.. He was the champ, and he beat his bitter rival on the biggest card of the year with a highlight reel KO..
But the UFC decides they want him against jardine.. Logic would tell you that they would probably set up machida for a title shot if he wins so that they get their biggest division active.. But then machida has to wait for the result or the jardine fight? Now that to me is bullshit.. They shouldve gotten evans vs page at 96, then machida vs the winner by the end of the year.. Instead of freezing evans for more than half a year and possibly screwing machida his well deserved title shot..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
now i dont know if the ufc just thinks machida vs evans is boring, or that they just want page to get a title shot or what.. or maybe they do agree with rome’s article and they want to set that up first.. I dont know man, but all this does is freeze the title of its marquee division..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Aahhhh...
I see where you were going with that, I just wasn’t sure if you were making a sarcastic joke or not (internet is tough to decipher).
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
hahaha. sorry bout that.
i agree with what you said that the evans rampage fight is more marketable.. but the bottom line is, i really think they shouldve booked that instead of the jardine fight.. Then machida gets the winner. Hell, let jardine rematch houston for all i care..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 3, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
Really not sure on what they were thinking with Rampage-Jardine if they just want Rampage to fight Rashad…all it does is stall the HW picture. I see your point in that they should try to have Machida-Rashad since both guys could go on a far faster turnaround than Rampage-Rashad could.
I guess it goes back to them wanting to keep this marketable fight a reality b/c the outcome of Machida-Rashad is far more in question than Jardine-Rampage. That being said, they do fight for a reason.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
Evans vs Page is a good prospective title fight but their styles are not all that different. Evans is faster and a better wrestler. I think a fight with Machida against either Page or Evans would be more exciting than Page vs Evans. Keep in mind that I have never found Machida’s style boring.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
If you watch the fight between Machida and Silva again you will see that Machida initiated the first offensive sequence. He definitely used Silva’s aggression against him though. Machida seems to beat his opponents to the punch often. I was saying he has great counter strikes but are they really counter strikes if he gets there first. Its as if he senses his opponent about to strike and counters before the strike is made. I guess his opponents could stand there and wait for him the way he does but very few fighters are comfortable doing this. Thats one of the reasons I want to see Machida fight Evans. Evans may be fast enough to get in and out on Machida. Machida does not like to clinch. On the ground I have seen Machida sub a guy with a cross throat forearm choke. I think Evans could beat him in the clinch / dirty boxing game ala Couture. We won’t know until we see it though.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Machida’s clinch game is something I have been impressed with because he doesn’t go for doing damage there, he uses it as a way to throw his opponent off balance or to trip them to the floor.
I am a huge Machida fan and don’t really like Evans (he just rubs me wrong), however Rashad Evans + Greg Jackson is a scary, scary combination.
oh, c'mon now ...
Someone with a radio show on an ESPN radio affiliate is going on a Web site with a content partnership with ESPN and praising ESPN’s journalism. Other sites with corporate affliliations get skewered for far less.
No, I have a show on a CBS radio affiliate. And if you can find another show that features active, intelligent, articulate fighters offering pre-fight weigh-in and post-fight analysis, do tell. The Guy Mezger, Tito Ortiz, Kenny Rice and Bas Rutten combo on Inside MMA is fun, but not nearly on the same level.
So, let’s hear it: where else can I find coverage like that?
Haters wanna hate...
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 3, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously...
What happened to Bas Rutten?
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
UGH...
no thank you. I could do with never hearing another awful Mauro pun again in my life. I liked PRIDE Mauro early in his time there before he lost his mind and became Mr. Pun
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 3, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Luke, good write up.
I just have a small qualm about the BJ apologist issue. I mean, granted there are extreme fans on either side of this debate, but the fact of the matter is, GSP and his corner did something unethical/illegal during the fight (which you point out in the article). I am a huge fan of both fighters and respect what they both bring to the sport, but I don’t deem myself an apologist for BJ Penn. The majority of the comments I have read don’t lean that way either. No one is saying the Vaseline is the reason BJ lost (which you also point out in the article), most fans just want to see the issue researched and a better understanding of the rules going forward. Changes need to be made, that is clearly evident from everything I’ve been reading.
I am a huge fan of BJ (as well as Georges), and it is a clear reality that he would not of won that fight if GSP took a bath in Vaseline before the fight. He was dominated from start to finish. The NSAC needs to clearly define the rules and take the Vaseline out of the corner’s hands. Put it into an independent cut man’s hand and let him handle those duties. All of this can be avoided going forward.
Contributing writer for MMA-Analyst.com
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