8 months ago
Nick Thomas
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I cannt wait untill this whole grease bull crap is over shadowed by the next ufc scandal. I hope (besides GSP vs. Silva) tha the UFC never hold one of these “super fights” between belt holders again. It just devalues a champion, andin this case, did crap for the winner.
by Bandaka on Feb 26, 2009 11:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Compelling argument! LONG Read, but very interesting, I rec!
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on Feb 26, 2009 11:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is how a professional handles things.
John Danaher’s letter, especially, methodically and systematically destroys every single element of Penn’s claims/complaint with a staggering level of detail.
by Hardcharger on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Definitely.
A very compelling letter that crushes Penn’s accusations.
by pud333 on Feb 26, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not gsp’s letter, that’s greg&phil’s letter.
If gsp had to write a letter it would probable start like that:
“Dear Kid Nate…”
\(*.-)/
by spectaa on Feb 26, 2009 12:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow…John Danaher via pure ownage.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Feb 26, 2009 12:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He writes rebuttal letters like how GSP wins fights…grinding his opponent into the dirt.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Feb 26, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or PWNAGE, if you will. ;)
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 26, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Penn. Just had his last rationalizations crushed like so many impotent bugs.
You got bitchslapped by the better fighter. Better learn to deal.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 26, 2009 12:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Shorter Danaher
Yes he was greased, just not too much.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 26, 2009 3:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If by “shorter”, you mean incomplete and not an accurate representatin of John Danaher’s letter, then yes.
by Hardcharger on Feb 26, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This man is correct.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Feb 26, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He admits Vaseline was applied, his argument is that it wasn’t much and that it wasn’t on purpose. Dana and Kizer have both stated pretty clearly that any greasing agent applied to the body is excessive and in violation of the rules. On purpose or not VSP was greased.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 26, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, no he doesn’t admit vaseline was applied.
He basically says that if any vaseline remained on Nurse’s fingers and was transferred to the shoulders it was unintentional and it had no impact. He never says that it definitely was; he basically just starts with the notion that “if” it happened, here’s the impact.
Nice word choice to suggest it was “applied” to continue the ridiculous arguments that it was actually done on purpose and the characterization of GSP as “greased” to continue the ridiculous imagery that GSP was cheating and that’s why BJ Penn was dominated, though.
by Kierkegaard on Feb 26, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It does not matter if it was done on purpose or not.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 26, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
First, Kierkegaard has eviscerated your contention that Danaher “admitted” anything.
Second, it absolutely matters if it was intentional or not.
Continue on with the absolutely pathetic VSP quips. Your game is beyond tired.
by Hardcharger on Feb 26, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GSP, Phil Nurse and Greg Jackson have all admitted that what happened was wrong. The UFC has changed procedures to deal with this breakdown. Why are you acting like nothing happened?
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 26, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because effectively nothing has happened.
by Ubernoober on Feb 26, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is the admission-
“After the first round, which appears to be the principal round in question, while Georges was seated, Phil twice took Vaseline off the back of his left hand and applied it to Georges’ face in the customary manner. He the massaged Georges’ temples, neck and shoulders, prior to placing his right flat palm against Georges’ chest and massaged Georges’ back with his right hand…”
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 26, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is not an admission. That is a description of the events that occurred, to the best of their recollection, as stated in the letter.
You’re desperately trying to attach statemtents of guilt without them ever being present in the letter.
GSP’s camp addressed and annihilated each and every one of the claims/complaints from Camp Penn.
by Hardcharger on Feb 27, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not an admission to anything. Once again you seem to read what you want to read instead of what is actually written. Kind of like when you read the NSAC rules as actually saying that any vaseline anywhere besides the face is prohibited, when the rules don’t say any such thing. What’s missing from your quote there to make it the admission you want it to be is something about there actually still being vaseline on his fingers after massaging it into GSP’s face. Like if he said, "He then massaged Georges’ temples, neck and shoulders with some vaseline still on his fingers, prior to placing his right palm against Georges’ chest … "
I know you’re not changing your mind. You’re clearly of the opinion that BJ Penn was sorely wronged in this situation, despite the general consensus of most of the rest of the world that BJ is nothing more than a bad loser who doesn’t actually train properly and prepare for his fights. I won’t argue with you about it anymore, as neither of us is going to change the other’s opinions anyway. I’m just as stubborn about reading things as they are actually written, etc., and I can admit that I’m not going to be swayed no matter how many times you post the link to Kizer saying any vaseline is prohibited.
by Kierkegaard on Feb 27, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well he is an advocate for GSP so of course his wording is used carefully. If your contention is that no Vaseline was wiped on GSP’s body because it was all wiped off on his face and none was left when he moved to his body, then we will just have to agree to disagree on that point.
You may be interested in the video featuring Stitch showing his hands after applying Vaseline and being “clean”, then wiping his hands off with brown paper towels.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 27, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Being an advocate of GSP has no bearing on Danaher wording his letter “carefully”. Danaher is a highly intelligent, highly educated person who is also one of the best at his profession in the world. Professionalism like Danaher has manifests itself in all arenas, including official responses to sensationalistic claims like this. Danaher addressed every contention, and systematically destroyed every one.
by Hardcharger on Feb 28, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Intent is everything. There is a world of difference between GSP intending to cheat, and vasaline being applied to him by someone else.
by pud333 on Feb 26, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It makes no difference. it happened and it has to end, whether GSP planned it with evil intentions or not does not change anything. It has to be prevented for the future.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 26, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lad, don’t bother arguing on this subject with dualdiagnosis. it’s not worth your time, trust me.
by NinjaCodah on Feb 26, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Btw
+1 on using the username Kierkegaard. Always good to see proto-existentialists getting their due.
+10,000 on using logic and rational critique under that username. Awesome. You really need to start up a whole bunch of other usernames with differing opinions and blow all of our minds.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 26, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I haven’t read the whole thing, and after reading the first letter I feel I have no need too. That is by far one of the best written letters my eyes have ever seen. So concise in every point to shoot down BJ’s argument that GSP was ever greased. And BJ provided all the proof they need too boot. This is a classic, and should be required reading for everyone, well everyone thats been following this particular “grease gate”.
by proflex on Feb 26, 2009 3:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Please read Danaher’s letter…it is beautiful how he attacks every single point. Like watching GSP fight.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Feb 26, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“……the Letter constitutes nothing more than mr. Penn’s desperete attempt to protect his reputation and commersial value after being totally dominated by a superior athlete.”
QFT
by Scandinavian Lion on Feb 26, 2009 3:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I saw that line and an “OH NO THEY DI’N’T!” ran through my head.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 26, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom line,
BJ Penn is a sore loser.
He got whupped and lost me as a fan for his childish demeanor post fight. I had more respect for him after the fight but lost it when he opened his childish mouth.
by JAYGK95 on Feb 26, 2009 5:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Penn's Next Move
The best part of these letters, from a legal standpoint, is that they leave both the NSAC and Penn’s camp with little room to maneuver.
By stating that the NSAC deputy commissioners stationed ringside have never had a problem with GSP’s cornering practices in the past forces NSAC to conclude that this is an isolated incident OR that they have been consistently incompetent. More importantly, they are basically challenging Keizer and co. to claim that GSP didn’t not follow the spirit or letter of the rules in any way by highlighting that what was done by Nurse and co., regardless of intent, was within NSAC regulations. To say that what happened was morally wrong but legal would require NSAC to publicly condemn its own rules, something they are unlikely to do. No matter how much we want to see this as a moment for possible revision of the regulations we cannot forget that the NSAC is a bureaucracy like any other and more likely to reach a private consensus with promotions than open up a public inquiry into its regulations (which is exactly what happened in Quebec).
From the perspective of Penn’s camp, I can’t see another avenue opening in BJ’s pursuit of greasing allegations against GSP. As a result of what I think will be a muted official response from the Commission to the situation, his only possible legal argument is both that GSP greased “excessively” (which would make his conduct illegal by NSAC regulations) and that NSAC was negligent in upholding its own regulations and protecting fighters by neither enforcing its rules nor punishing the violation.
Long way of saying that the brilliance of these letters have pretty much closed the door — at least legally — on “grease-gate.”
My guess is BJ lays low for a while but stirs the pot at some point closer to GSP-Alves.
by trainyourmind on Feb 26, 2009 7:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It's so funny.
That for a so called Pro-GSP post you pretty much have 20 different people agreeing with each other than the 20 other people agreeing with each other in a so called Pro-BJ post. You do have 2-3 people crossing over and losing badly in arguing in the “others” territory.
I didn’t read everything just the first letter and then skimmed the second and glanced over the other 2. In the first 2 I didn’t hear any thing I didn’t expect to hear except the offered future remedies. I really like the alcohol one. It’s a sad thing the sport has come to the point I think this is necessary, but wiping down fighters with a wet towel then a dry towel and then a soaked alcohol towel along with the having a promotion/commission provided cutman only allowed to handle lubricants is a great way to handle it.
I’d much rather have the fighters wear commission laundered and approved rashguards and lubricants only for cuts in professional fights (amateur is a different story).
by natyong on Feb 26, 2009 7:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The last letter is beautiful in its inevitability.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Feb 26, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if this letter has not been read by the BJ side of the greasing scandal, it has provided the GSP side with a lot of ammunition. BJ would be better off if he just cut his losses.
The greasing scandal has gone a lot like GSP Vs BJ 2. BJ has come out half assed only to get pulverized by a meticulous approach from GSP.
by Ubernoober on Feb 26, 2009 10:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
“The greasing scandal has gone a lot like GSP Vs BJ 2. BJ has come out half assed only to get pulverized by a meticulous approach from GSP.”
The parallels are uncanny, wouldn’t you say? ;)
by Hardcharger on Feb 27, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This was a good read!!!
I cant wait for the verdict or the closure of this stupid bullcrap. Its so obvious to everyone involved what happened, why can BJ just understand that he is not as great as he thinks he is. He is not evolvong with the sport and his natural abiility is starting to be overshadowed by actual athletic ability. BJ has lost at least one fan and that fan is me. WAR GSP KICKING YOUR ASS!!!!!!!
by HEELHOOK on Feb 27, 2009 11:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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