All This "Title Shot" Nonsense... With Poll
by Drewplata on Feb 22, 2009 10:58 AM EST
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PrintWith wins at UFC 95, Demian Maia and Nate Marquardt are standing on their soap boxes, asking for title shots. Why? I guess because they either really want the strap or they are deluded. Let's look at the reality.
The UFC middleweight division stacks up like this:
Champ: Spider Silva
#2: Thales Leites
#3: Dan Henderson (t)
#3: Michael Bisping (t)
#5: Nate Marquardt (t)
$5: Demian Maia (t)
This is not my opinion, it's the fact. Leites is fighting for the belt. The winner of Bisping/Henderson gets the next shot. Logic would dictate that Maia should fight Marquardt to determine the next #1 challenger. But logic would not have dictated that Leites would get a shot so, who really knows. So, what do you think?
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I think Yushin Okami is officially screwed. The more impressive Bisping, Marquardt and Maia look after each fight, the further Okami gets to a title shot. It’s increasingly obvious that they don’t want to see Silva lose to a non-marketable fighter like Okami, and they have no reason to have him fight.
Okami is 7-1 in the UFC, but his last three wins have been over the span 16 months, and he seems to have no heat in the division. He should be the next in line for a title shot, but I’m not so sure he’ll get it.
I don’t know how it will be decided, but I know Marquardt vs. Maia is the fight I want to see.
Okami will get released before the UFC gives him a title shot. It’s pretty apparent at this point that they don’t want/need him fighting for the belt – he’s prone to injury and has only finished 3 of his 8 UFC fights. They had a spot cleared for him at one point when there were no other viable contenders, but he broke his hand and these cats have been steady creepin’ since.
BUT, if they book Marquardt vs. Maia, and Bisping loses to Hendo at UFC 100, there’s no excuse not to throw Okami in there with Silva, especially if Silva comes out of the Leites fight unscathed. Okami would need a win in the meantime though, and an impressive one.
P.S. “deluded” not “diluted”
Hangover > spelling, thx
There's a WAMMA belt in my Cracker Jacks!
They really might be saving Okami at this point for a planned foray into Japan.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Exactly. There is already a story to hype for this fight, and that it has not happened yet makes me think they are saving it for the Japan push.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Good point, I hadn’t thought of that.
Kuwabara Kuwabara
by J. B. Maddox on Feb 22, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Marquardt vs. Maia is a bad move in my opinion, you don’t want to eliminate potential challengers for the belt. Use the losers of title fights to build up challengers, and with some less than deserving people coming off losses to Silva, they are perfect to build up challengers.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
No one would be eliminated...
The loser could fight the Bisping/Henderson loser, then one of the losers of the title shots to realign the rankings.
There's a WAMMA belt in my Cracker Jacks!
Well Fighter A lost to Fighter B, who Silva just tore the head off of, there is no way Fighter A has any chance whatsoever. We need real challengers for Silva, like Random non UFC Fighter C, who would be a gatekeeper at best in the UFc but because he is not in the UFC he is awesome and a real threat to Silva.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Man, I've always had problems with discrete probability!
There's a WAMMA belt in my Cracker Jacks!
I think Maia could sub every 185’r in the 1st round at this point. i have seen nothing that indicates otherwise thus far in his career.
I was actually impressed with his early standup against Sonnen so I believe he could weather a storm from Anderson early and get the fight to the ground.
I think besides Marquardt, he has the best chance of any 185’r to make the fight at least interesting.
Thing is, Silva hurts people when he connects cleanly, and I did not really see anything saying Maia could prevent clean shots yet.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Yeah,
Maia has a lot to prove in the standup before he’s got a realistic chance to take out Silva. Anderson is just so good at keeping range and demolishing people, and clinching with him isn’t a great idea either.
If Maia can figure out how to get Anderson to the cage, there’s a chance it goes to the ground, and Maia finishes.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Maia has a lot to prove in the standup before he’s got a realistic chance to take out Silva.
You mean just like Lutter, right? [/sarcasm]
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
Is Maia the Michael Jordan of BJJ? Didn’t think so =P
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
No. He’s the Oscar Robertson. And I’ll take that over Jordan.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Feb 23, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
All the fighters listed deserve shots or are at least in line for them.
While it would make some fun fights, there is no good reason for the UFC to have them fighting each other, especially in a division where depth is perceived to be lacking.
We already know Leites has the next shot, so…
In my world, Hendo beats Bisping and gets the shot, and sets Bisping back a bit.
Then if Anderson wins, Marquardt gets the next shot and then Maia after that. If Hendo wins, just flip-flop it.
In the mean time, let’s see Marquardt/Almeida 2 and Maia/Palhares.
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
I think Marquardt is gonna fight Leites next, there is already a big storyline to hype for that fight. If Leites loses to Silva, Marquardt will probably fight him then go on for his title shot. If Leites beats Silva, then Marquardt will be his first title defense.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
The problem with this thought process is....
By creating a long line of succession for title shots, fighters are forced to sit and wait. I don’t like the idea of Rampage fighting Jardine instead of fighting for the strap, but at least he’s keeping busy. And how many times have pundits, bloggers, etc. had to say that MMA is not boxing? One loss does not destroy a career. Like I basically said in another response, this logjam of tough competitors in the division creates the opportunity for a de facto round robin style tournament. For example, imagine this scenario: loser of Henderson/Bisping fights loser of Marquardt/Maia (“fighter A”). Winner of that fight fights the loser of Leites/Silva (“fighter B”). If “fighter A” wins, he would be the next logical #1 competitor and all the fighters involved would be busy, making money, and in potentially terrific fights for a period of several months. I would think most guys in their prime @ 185 would want to fight 3-5 times per year (fighting 5 times would be a stretch, unless there is a quick win) and, considering that the division has been Anderson and everyone else for a couple years now, it would behoove them to stay in the public eye as much as possible.
And, do you really think that 1) Almeida is a real threat to Maquardt or 2) that Palhares is ready for Maia?
There's a WAMMA belt in my Cracker Jacks!
No, as much as I like Almeida, I don’t think he would have more than a 1 in 5 shot against Marquardt right now, if that. But that doesn’t mean that it isn’t a marketable rematch and a loss that I’m sure Nate would like to avenge.
I think Palhares and Maia would be a very interesting fight.
You seem to think that I want a numerical list of title shots, with those fighters sitting and waiting. that couldn’t be more wrong. I want to see the guys fight 3 or 4 times per year at least. I’m simply saying, in what is considered by some, a thin division, you can’t really have your top 4 challengers fighting each other and knocking themselves out of contention.
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
They need to sign Jorge Santiago and Gegard Mousasi to really settle this.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
I know it is gauche to quote myself, but:
Random non UFC Fighter C, who would be a gatekeeper at best in the UFC but because he is not in the UFC he is awesome and a real threat to Silva
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Feb 22, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Have you even seen Mousasi or Santiago fight lately?
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
I know that Mousasi’s big wins are over badly-exposed Kang, no-ground Manhoef, and untested Jacare. Santiago’s big wins are Nakamura (shrug) and Misaki where Santiago was losing until the fifth round.
They are both good fighters, but any discussion of them being a challenge to Anderson Silva is badly premature.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 22, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
This is what I think of first when I see Jorge Santiago’s name.
by ilostmydog on Feb 22, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I tend to think of the Leben fight.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 22, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
Same.
It’s bad enough that Robbie Lawler is considered a top five fighter, Santiago being ranked as a top ten fighter is even worse. How anybody who has been KTFOd by Chris Leben, Alan Belcher and a featherweight is now top ten is beyond me. I think Mousasi might have been the real deal but sadly it sounds like he’s done as a middleweight.
I think a middleweight tournament is in order
Have the winner of Bisping vs Henderson fight the winner of a fight between Maia and Marquardt. The winner of the tournament gets the title shot. It sets us up for great meaningful middleweight fights for the rest of the year and a Silva title defense at the end of the year.
Eliminating title contenders is not a good move, constant title defenses is what you want.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Thus you build up meaningful contenders not eliminate them. You do not need “the best” contender once a year, but multiple ones who could be th best, beating the champion is how they become the best.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
I see your point but Silva has already beaten two of those contenders pretty dominantly why not build the meaningful fights to make the division look good not just the champion.
That is what I am advocating, multiple contenders at the time rather than eliminating them until there is just one contender. Contenders are what the division is built around.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Like I said I see your point but the champion can only fight one fight at a time and about 4 times a year plus or minus why not establish true contenders while at the same time building up the division. i mean who really wants to see Leites fight Silva the good matchups are not with the champ. This is just my opinion but I would rather see the matchups that I mentioned then to see Anderson Silva fight all of them.
Unless Silva fights at 205 while the tournament takes place.
by George Lucas on Feb 22, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
I would rather have the champion of a division defend his belt personally. Now if Silva moved up permanently, then hell yeah to a tournament.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
imo Okami deserves the first title shot but i think its gonna play out Maia vs. Marquart for a title shot after the winner of bisping vs. Hendo gets a title shot. I hoping for a hendo rematch. imo hendo could UD silva. btw Leites getting a title shot before any of the mentioned fighters is a travesty :)
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