Middleweight gets interesting (poll)
by klown on Feb 22, 2009 2:21 AM EST
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Tonight's MW match-ups helped clear up the title picture in the UFC's least vaunted division. The inclusion of W.Silva and Sonnen, the rise of Maia and Marquardt, the patient Okami, the imminent return of Cote, the potential of Palhares, the possibility of GSP entering the mix... It all makes for some tantalizing possible match-ups.
Here's a ranking of the UFC MWs based, as purely as possible, on wins over other ranked opponents:
1. Anderson Silva
2. Dan Henderson
3. Rich Franklin
4. Yushin Okami
5. Demian Maia
6. Chael Sonnen
7. Thales Leites
8. Nate Marquardt
9. Wilson Gouveia
10. Patrick Cote
11. Jason MacDonald
12. Martin Kampmann
13. Michael Bisping
14. Jason Day
15. Alan Belcher
16. Denis Kang
17. Nate Quarry
18. Chris Leben
19. Kendall Grove
20. Rousimar Palhares
(Update: I reconsidered my stance on Kang, and removed Starnes because he is no longer in the UFC)
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Why the hell is Marquardt behind Henderson, Franklin, and Sonnen? He’s fourth, at worst, in the UFC. He’s basically next in line for a shot if Okami cannot step up (again!). Maia and Marquardt is the match that needs to be made but won’t.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
Marquardt lost to Leites 3 fights ago
So he can, at most, be ranked right below Leites.
Maia vs Marquardt would be an awesome fight.
Which is why I said fourth at worst. It’d go Silva, Leites, Maia, and Marquardt or flip-flop Maia and Marquardt.
Maia will probably get Belcher or Palhares next while Marquardt gets Okami or something. I doubt Dana wants Marquardt to beat Maia and then have Silva beat Marquardt because then that kills two contenders with one stone rather than setting them on separate paths to the title.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
But Maia would win, of course. Maia has the (limited) edge standing. I doubt Palhares can impose his will on the ground either.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Feb 22, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
even better why the hell is kalib starnes even on the list. Kampman is ahead of bisping and he’s no longer in the division. Also thales is number 7 behind sonnen who just lost and leites has a title shot. tonights match ups made the title picture even more foggy because how can you decide between marquadt and maia. Also, we know that the winner of hendo and bisping gets a title shot so that has been clear from the get go. Why no Denis Kang on the list i get he just lost but still.
Kampman has a win over Leites (#7) and his only loss in the UFC MW division is to Marquardt, so he deserves his high rank. And I figure fighters should be ranked in all divisions in which they compete. I just stop counting fights that are over 3 years old.
Sonnen just lost to the top up-and-comer in the division. He fell victim to a sick move I’ve never seen before He is still a Top 10 fighter with a win over (an admittedly out of sorts) Filho. If Sonnen’s current rank is inflated, another loss or two will push him down the list soon.
As for Bisping, his greatest victories at MW are over Day and Leben. He has the potential to contend, but has yet to prove it. I don’t think he deserves to compete with a fighter of Henderson’s caliber just yet. If he wins, however, it will silence his critics and establish him as a legitimate contender.
The only fighter on this list that Kang has fought is Belcher, and we all know how that ended. I like Kang, but the sad truth is his record has been dismal recently.
Starnes is not in the UFC anymore
Kampmann is at 170
Cote is a joke and his return will mean next to nothing. He’s not a threat in the division
Not including Kang is strange seeing you included Jason Day, Grove and others.
i wont vote because i think that the winner of bisping/hendo is the one that really deserves the title shot.. Maia should face off with marquard and the winner of that fight gets the next title shot..
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If Bisping beats Henderson, he’s earned a title shot. But I’m not ready to see a rematch of Silva-Henderson even if Henderson beats Bisping.
Maia vs Marquardt would be awesome. But my big question to you is, what about Okami? His only UFC defeat is a decision loss to Franklin.
that was i was thinking too. If bisping wins, then he should get the shot. If not, then the division is a mess.. Hendo just lost his shot, marquard lost to leites, and leites isnt even deserving of the title shot.. Its supposed to be okami in 97 to begin with.. I was really pissed off when they announced leites vs silva.. well its done and we cant do anything about that, so i think okami should be matched up with maia.
if bisping wins, title shot, if not, let the winner of maia/okami decide things. (much like the machida situation)
Let marquard rematch leites (if leites loses) or fight the loser of hendo/bisping.. Then things could look clearer depending on how those few fights play out..
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by Anton Tabuena on Feb 22, 2009 4:24 AM EST up reply actions
Maia/Marquardt kills at least one of the two guys as a contender, and they both are quality contenders. The UFC really wants to keep the flow of quality contenders coming so there are less Cotes and Leiteses coming who people don’t really think deserve the shot yet.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
How about Marquadt v Okami or Maia v Okami? No one seems to be talking about those matchups. I don’t want Maia and Marquadt to fight yet because I want both of them to have a crack (or another) at Anderson Silva. Its already been stated that the winner of Henderson-Bisping gets a title shot but hopefully that only applies if Bisping wins. Anderson defends against Leites in April so having Bisping/Henderson winner be the next challenger doesn’t make much sense since that isnt until July. If thats Silva’s next opponent then it couldn’t happen until October at the earliest, which means a 6 month layoff for the spider and that is a terrible idea. So I say they give Maia a title shot at UFC 100 or 101 in July/August and let the Bisping/Hendo winner get the winner of that fight in November/December. In the meantime also schedule a Okami v Marquadt fight for top contender after the Bisping/Hendo winner (or top contender if Hendo wins).
by IWillPartyHard on Feb 26, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
And I think if Leites had actually beaten Marquardt rather than getting the gift decision due to penalties then people would think he was a much more deserving contender.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
yup.. and no one would consider marquard a contender.. therefore, maia would get the next shot. hahaha.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 23, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Almeida?
Almeida could probably be in the top 15…
Palhares is definitely low, while Henderson clearly beat him, he’s much more dangerous then half the people on the list.
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Since Almeida returned to the sport in 2008, he holds one win over Yundt and one loss to Cote. I don’t feel Almeida deserves be ranked based on those 2 fights. I’d like to see him fight someone ranked in the 10-20 range, which would give him a spot in the rankings (if we he were to win) followed by a Top 10 fighter.
Palhares has a ton of potential but like Almeida, his greatest victory is the unranked journeyman Horn. I’d put him on a similar program – take on a fighter ranked 10-20, and if he wins, take it from there.
Then who the hell has Chael Sonnen beaten? he has lost 3 times to said unranked journeyman Horn. Other than Filho, who would have lost to ANYONE that night, who has he beaten?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
There’s no question Sonnen’s ranking is artificially inflated by his freak win over Filho, but I believe rankings should be objective, i.e. they should reflect actual wins, not our subjective opinions of who had an off night or who WOULD have won IF only…
It’s the same point you raise about Leites – subjectively, his win over Marquadt was not satisfactory, but he won and that’s a fact.
Again, the ranks will self-correct in due time, if Sonnen is matched against similarly ranked fighters and loses, and as new up-and-comers seize spots among the Top 10.
but I believe rankings should be objective, i.e. they should reflect actual wins, not our subjective opinions of who had an off night or who WOULD have won IF only…
They should be objective, but that doesn’t mean they should only reflect who has won fights over higher-ranked fighters.
Most quality rankings systems, and the UFC itself, tend to rank based on overall quality of wins, rather than overranking by a single fluke win, such as Sonnen over Filho.
I’m quite certain were you to ask, Joe Silva would put Marquardt and Leites over Sonnen in their internal rankings.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 22, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
i am sick of mw. i want to see anderson move to 205. i dont care if it leaves the belt in limbo, hell, if you want award an interim champ at mw. it seems that we are wasting an absolutly awesome fighter in anderson here
he could be fighting the the best division in mma or we could see him fighting guys he has already destroyed or guys that have no shot(bisping, maia, leites)
i am a huge maia fan but i think we all know how that fight would end. maybe lietes will prove me wrong, but i see two wasted fights for a pound for pound king in cote and leites. silva is nearing retirement and i want to see him fight the monsters at 205 and watch earn the p4p title, or not.
Fun with match-ups
The gatekeepers to the Top 20 are Day, Belcher, Quarry, Leben and Grove.
Palhares and Almeida need a spot in the Top 20, so throw them a gatekeeper each, but make it a gatekeeper coming off a win, so that if he beats Palhares or Almeida, he has the opportunity to shed the gatekeeper label and gather momentum towards being a legit contender. I would match Palhares vs Belcher and Almeida vs Grove.
The winners of those two fights would earn a shot at the gatekeepers to the Top 10: fighters like Gouveia, Cote and Macdonald.
Kang was supposed to use Belcher as a quick stepping stone but he was stopped, which calls his legitimacy into question. He should take on another gatekeeper, one coming off a loss: Day, Quarry or Leben. The loser of that fight would be in danger of being cut.
I don’t like the Henderson-Bisping match-up because I don’t feel Bisping has worked his way up the ladder. But I felt the same about Rua-Griffin and Liddell-Evans, and look at those guys now. So if Bisping wins, he becomes the undisputed #1 contender. If he loses, we’ve learned nothing. I don’t think beating Palhares and Bisping should entitle Henderson to a title shot. (Franklin counts.) I’d give him one more fight against a top-of-the-chain contender first, someone of the caliber of Okami, Maia and Marquardt.
Another unpleasant match-up is A.Silva vs Leites. As the poll above shows, nobody believes this one makes sense, but it’s a reality, and more deserving contenders like Okami and Maia must wait. So why not have Okami vs Maia? It’s a great stylistic match-up. I think if anyone can take apart Okami, it’s Maia. A Maia win would make him the undisputed #1 contender, and the UFC and many fans would heave sighs of relief at the derailment of “Decision Okami”.
That leaves Marquardt, who has already fought for the belt and lost. I am reluctant to approve of rematches and sequels, especially when the outcome of the first fight was not in question, as in Silva’s crushing of Henderson and Marquardt. I think those 2 need to take a backseat to Okami and Maia. I would match Marquardt against Sonnen or Cote to tread water while the pinnacle of the division sorts itself out.
The wild card is the catchweight fight of Franklin vs W.Silva. If Franklin wins, the fight is meaningless, and its relevance to the MW division is questionable, since Franklin is likely to continue competing at 205. But If Silva wins, a new contender has entered the division with a bang, and he finds himself not more than one win or two from a title shot. If he beats Franklin, I’d give him someone at the level of Marquardt, Gouveia, Cote, followed by a title shot or a #1 contender fight.
Exciting possibilities abound…
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