Affliction Statement: Next show in Cali - UFC talks....
by warsilva on Feb 2, 2009 4:02 PM EST
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DreamFighters.com: Have you had any further conversations with the UFC or Dana White that may lead to a Fedor versus Lesnar bout?
Michael Cohen: I have not spoken to either the Fertittas or Dana in quite a while. In the past 2 weeks (since the Day Of Reckoning event) Mr. Trump has been bombarded by e-mails asking for him to broker this deal with the UFC. While I am not certain this will happen, it certainly is intriguing and would be a great bout for all the fans.
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Another chance for the UFC to prevent an awesome fight. Just once at UFC 100 they could co-promote to make Fedor vs Brock and Anderson vs Vitor and Machida vs Mousasi. But it would never happen
Gimme 1 Round!
Do you ever suggest that another organization should donate to the UFC in a way that would benefit the UFC?
by Michaelthebox on Feb 2, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or maybe Affliction should find a way to get their guys to fight on a UFC card without co-promotion of any kind. It would make about as much sense.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 2, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How does the UFC benefit from those fights? The casual fan (the one who makes or breaks the success of a UFC event) has no idea who those guys are. I think Brock vs Mir would sell better than Brock vs Fedor. The UFC will not co promote because the other side gains WAAAAYYY more than they do.
Fedor vs Brock or Fedor vs Randy would out sell Mir vs Brock.
Fedor’s name and story has been out in the public. Causal fans have yet to warm up to Affliction’s promotion.
Fedor vs Brock or Fedor vs Randy would out sell Mir vs Brock.
Uh, no.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 2, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor vs Brock or Fedor vs Randy would out sell Mir vs Brock.
and
Causal fans have yet to warm up to Affliction’s promotion.
are mutually exclusive.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
If only numbers were that simple, variables are always at play.
Take a straw poll or ask a few experts. Fedor would out sell Frank Mir in those match ups.
Lesnar vs. the first guy to beat him or Lesnar vs. some guy many fans have never even heard of? I suspect the former would do more buys.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
You guys fail to WANT to count in the promotion when evaluating a fighters draw.
Brock Lesnar before UFC = Ziltch, wasn’t even offered in PPV, was barely news worthy
Fedor w/o UFC = Fills an arena and 100k PPV buys, New York Times, LA Times articles
You put Fedor under UFC marketing machine and he is the same draw as Brock. You put that match together and Frank Mir cannot get a free ticket for the event because ticket demands would be so crazy.
Again, you are all kidding yourselves if think Frank Mir is better draw than Fedor.
In his debut fight in the UFC you think that he would be a draw? I think that the could be a draw sure, if given enough time. He has a very calm/quite sort of personality and has a physique not typically associated with great talent or athletic ability. Additionally, UFC fans have seen world-beaters from Japan come here and get tooled (Cro Cop, Kang, Shogun, etc.). So at first look (personality and physique) he’s not going to come off like a real threat, and to the slightly more educated (though still very causal) fan, he’ll be another guy to get brought in who probably won’t live up to the hype. Given that these are the people that make you a draw, I don’t think that Fedor would draw well initially.
Mir/Lesnar is a highly anticipated rematch between the two top heavyweights in the UFC, both of whom are coming of dominant victories against respected veterans. I think it’s self evident which would be better draw.
In time, with impressive showings inside the UFC, Fedor could definitely become a UFC draw. If Machida can get fans, Fedor, in time, certainly can. Also, take note of the fact that Lyoto is learning how to speak English. Fedor would probably want to do that as well.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
The UFC could market him as the greatest fighter ever to not step into a UFC cage
And they would for once be telling the truth. The man to demolish Nog 3 times 29 W – 1 defeat with 26 straight wins. The man to brutalize Tim Sylvia in only 36 seconds and knock AA cold in mid air in the first round… Then show the Mark Coleman picture with his horrified little girls “A man who has battered his way through opponents and shocking blows” Show Fujita blasting him and then him lighting up Fujita moments later and of course the Randleplex Considered by many to be the #1 PfP fighter in the planet along with Anderson Silva and GSP…
FEDOR EEEEE-MELLL-IANNNN-EEEENNNN-KOOOOOOOOOOO
Gimme 1 Round!
The UFC could market him as the greatest fighter ever to not step into a UFC cage
And they would for once be telling the truth.
They did this with Shogun and to a lesser extent Cro Cop and both of those turned out…well.
He could be a huge draw, but he would first have to become one in the octagon.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 2, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Brock Lesnar before UFC in USA= Amateur wrestling champion turned pro wrestler turned NFL try out that had got more ESPN coverage than the whole sport of MMA at that point. The Dynamite USA show was horrible but Lesnar headlined that as his first ever MMA fight. Brock Lesnar had mainstream attention before he started MMA and he is just getting stronger as a draw in the sport.
Fedor in the USA= The Pride 32 didn’t do all that well, the Bodog PPV was a complete disaster and even though both Affliction cards were backed by big names still didn’t draw much at all on PPV. Oh and apparently the Fedor special on FSN didn’t even draw enough viewers to register a Nielsen rating at all.
Lets face it Frank Mir sold more US PPVs in his last fight than Fedor has sold in his entire career and the “revenge” angle between Mir and Lesnar is going to be huge with casual fans who still don’t even know who Fedor is.
Fedor is probably more comparable to the other top P4P fighter Anderson Silva who even with his incredibly exciting style and the UFC giving him a near constant huge push still doesn’t sell a lot of PPVs. Fedor is the greatest MMA fighter in the world but he has no personality to speak of, looks like a plumber and doesn’t speak English. Even with the full power of the UFC promotion machine behind him there is a good chance that the casual UFC fans won’t care.
by who me on Feb 3, 2009 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I dunno if the causal fan really needs to be told to much about him or need a match to build him up. Pretty much campaign could sold in two simple sentences.
Meet Fedor, he can legitimately knock Brock’s head off. Do you want to watch?
Kinda like the initial Brock campaign.
Meet Brock, he is a big SOB who can flatten heavyweights. Do you want to watch?
P4P curse only applies to Anderson Silva, mostly due to his lack of opponents. I’m sure GSP and Penn made some money this weekend.
Right…that was not the initial Brock campaign. The initial campaign was he is a WWE wrestler, can he fight here?
GSP and Penn are very marketable and sellable people. Fedor could only make money in the UFC against gigantic names like Randy and Brock. You bring Fedor in to fight Lesnar and it is a dream fight only to the 100k that buy Affliction. You can sell guys all day long, but none of the pride guys ever did big numbers upon coming in due to hype.
Fedor could be a decent draw potentially, but his inability to speak english well and really hype a fight will always hurt. He was never a gigantic draw in Japan and wouldn’t be one here.
by Michael Rome on Feb 3, 2009 3:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I dunno if the causal fan really needs to be told to much about him or need a match to build him up.
and
P4P curse only applies to Anderson Silva, mostly due to his lack of opponents.
Your first comment would indicate that casual fans, presumably because they know relatively little about MMA, require only a media push to make a fighter seemingly compelling and good (in the sense of quality) enough for him to draw well. However, your second claim is that Anderson, who has been given a big media push (several times now) doesn’t draw casual fans because they are knowledgeable enough that they know his competition is lackluster. Even if both your claims are true, they are inconsistent with each other.
Additionally your premises are false. It requires more than a big media push to make a star: Anderson Silva’s campaign was huge and focused on his flashy knockouts, P4P status, and fun personality, essentially equivalent to “Meet Anderson, he’s fun to watch and he’ll knock a dude’s head off cuz he’s that f@#$ing good! Do you want to watch?” Yet still he remains a meager draw at best. Furthermore, his lack of drawing ability is not due to a lack of top competition: the vast majority of casual fans don’t follow the sport enough to know that some of his recent fights have been against sub-par competition. Even then, more explicit mismatches can be draws too, many times eclipsing competitive matchups. I cite all of Japanese MMA and Tito/Chuck II. The only people who care about Anderson not fighting the cream of the crop are hardcore fans, i.e. not the people who make somebody a draw.
Honestly, I think an unfortunately large factor in Anderson’s lack of drawing power is the fact that he doesn’t speak English. It’s the only thing I can think of, because otherwise I have no idea what it could be. He’s exciting, always finishes, has a great personality, and one of the most skilled competitors in the game. The only thing different about him is that he can’t speak English.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 3, 2009 3:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rich Franklin and Dan Henderson were not weak opponents at all and they didn’t draw big either. Skill and talent win championships but it is star power that sells PPVs. Not being able to speak English is going to have a real affect on that but Fedor doesn’t even have the personality that Anderson Silva has and that has always affected his ability to draw. Knowlegeable MMA fans are just a small part of the audience, to draw you have to appeal to the casual fans who don’t keep up with the sport beyond the monthy UFC ppv and that takes charisma.
Brock Lesnar is a famous personality from before he even mentioned MMA, heck his attempt to break into the NFL got more mainstream coverage than the entire sport of MMA had got at that point. Brock could do big numbers fighting Justin McCully and him vs Mir is going to draw even bigger because Mir has a victory over him. You also have to look at the fact that Frank Mir cost $90k for a fight and Fedor cost 2 million, even if Fedor would sell a bit better(and I don’t think he would) he wouldn’t sell 1.9 million dollars worth of better.
The distinction is that Brock Lesnar was a huge draw among wrestling fans who had to be drawn in to buy a PPV. That means that the word had to be spread to draw in wrestling fans, something that K-1 could not do for shit, and the UFC could.
Fedor is catnip to hardcore fans. When you say that Affliction hasn’t done a good job drawing fans, you completely fail to understand why. Affliction does a terrific job drawing people who know who Fedor is, because the hardcore fans who know who Fedor is wander around message boards, pay attention to non-UFC organizations, and talk to one another about the events coming up.
If Fedor goes to the UFC, guess who buys his PPVs? The exact same 100k hardcore fans, plus the UFC standard casuals and whoever else draws on the card. Fedor’s popularity among the hardcore fans is completely unrelated to his popularity among the casual fans, which means PPV draw rates for Brock at K-1 and Fedor at Affliction have no relation to their actual drawing power.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 3, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting, that Trump would be bombarded with emails to cross promote. That does not make sense to me.
I wonder if they estimate fan base by PPV purchases and where they are coming from.
Does Donald Trump have a public e-mail address or did Jerry Millen just get ahold of it?
The UFC isn’t going to cross-promote with Affliction because they have nothing to gain from it. Yea it would be a fight the fans would like to see but any one off fight for the UFC is basically worthless for building their brand. It would help Affliction and give them media attention and fan credibility (even if Fedor lost) but wouldn’t really offer anything at all for the UFC. It doesn’t matter if it’s Fedor involved it’s the fact that co-promotion is basically the UFC paying to advertise and help a direct competitor grow.
The UFC would never in a million years risk letting their bread winner get mauled by an outside org’s champion. So, unless there is talk of Fedor getting signed by the UFC, I don’t think there’s much here.
It woudn’t matter if they were guaranteed a Fedor loss the UFC isn’ going to do anything to help Affliction MMA get exposure. It would be similar to McDonalds running an ad campaign about how good Burger King is. Whether Fedor wins or loses wouldn’t change the fact that Affliction would get a huge boost out of the UFC even recognizing them as worthy of co-promotion.
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