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GSP: Innocent Until Proven Guilty ?

Star-divide

 

O.k., so there are now dozens of posts about the great vasenline scandal, with hundreds of comments.  What seems to be completely overlooked by almost everyone on both sides of the debate is the initial question of whether GSP and his corner actually violated any rule in the first place.  Everyone seems to be starting with the position that he did and then debating intent or debating who is to blame or debating whether it actually made any difference in the outcome.

Why is that?  Where is the discussion of the actual rule and whether it was violated in the first place?

It isn't that hard to use google and find the actual rule at issue.  The rule is part of the "General Requirements for Contests and Exhibitions" and is titled "Physical Appearance of Unarmed Combatants."  It's in the Nevada State Athletic Commissions Unified Rules.  It is, specifically, Rule NAC 467.598.  You can read it yourself right HERE.

It provides:

NAC 467.598  Physical appearance of unarmed combatants. (NRS 467.030)

     1.  Each unarmed combatant must be clean and present a tidy appearance.

     2.  The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. The referees or the Commission’s representative in charge shall cause any excessive grease or foreign substance to be removed.

     3.  The Commission’s representative shall determine whether head or facial hair presents any hazard to the safety of the unarmed combatant or his opponent or will interfere with the supervision and conduct of the contest or exhibition. If the head or facial hair of an unarmed combatant presents such a hazard or will interfere with the supervision and conduct of the contest or exhibition, the unarmed combatant may not compete in the contest or exhibition unless the circumstances creating the hazard or potential interference are corrected to the satisfaction of the Commission’s representative.

     4.  An unarmed combatant may not wear any jewelry or other piercing accessories while competing in the contest or exhibition.

     [Athletic Comm’n, § 18, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 11-2-88; 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001)

 

 

The plain language of the rule does *not* prohibit the presence of "any" grease at all on the body.  It prohibits "excessive use."  It also provides that the referee or the Commission's representatives are supposed to remove it.

So, in this case, what we have documented are several great gifs showing Nurse rubbing GSP's shoulders, back, and chest as part of a ritual that GSP always has done (and others in Jackson's camp seem to have done as well).  This was after nurse had rubbed the vaseline on GSP's face.


Was there an "excessive" amount of vaseline rubbed onto his body?  No idea.  But the fact that nobody seems to even be bothering with that initial part of the rule is troubling.  The rule does not provide that the presence of "any" grease at all is somehow automatically a violation.

Perhaps an investigation is appropriate.  That investigation needs to start with trying to figure out what is "excessive" and whether this (or any of his other fights) constituted excessive.  Perhaps changing the rule to prohibit any grease on the body is appropriate.  But that's not the rule we have now.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

4 recs  |  Comment 17 comments

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I happen to feel, simultaneously, that there should be an investigation and that the NSAC made sure, during the fight, that it was fair.

Weird. huh?

by subo on Feb 2, 2009 5:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not at all. I think that’s entirely possible. Just because they made sure it wasn’t actually “excessive” during the fight and not a problem in this fight doesn’t mean the practice should not be investigated further and the rules changed or clarified. As it is, that wording in the rule is some pretty piss-poor grammar anyway.

by Kierkegaard on Feb 2, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The rules should be clarified. It should be a yes or no to greasing. Whether it is “excessive” or not is way too subjective.

by pud333 on Feb 2, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The rules seem pretty ambiguous and VERY open to interpretation.
Either way reading those rules seem to suggest to me that GSPs corner were not in the wrong at all.
I mean, if it read “NO grease applied to shoulders or back” I would say they were in the wrong but the rule suggests that grease is perfectly fine as long as it’s not excessive.

by pr0cs on Feb 2, 2009 5:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

The rules are stated, right or wrong, so as to permit non-excessive amounts of grease to a fighter’s body. Any excess amounts are wiped off.

Nothing that happenned indicates in the least that these rules weren’t followed.

This is a non issue.

by Hardcharger on Feb 2, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh come on...

Don’t let facts and reality get in the way of a good old fashioned conspiracy.

by mythbuster on Feb 2, 2009 6:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Let’s see some gifs of BJ between rounds as well as all of the other fighters who have ever sat in their corner between rounds while their cornermen massaged their shoulders/chest/back to keep blood flowing after using some vaseline on their face. Then if any of those cornermen didn’t wipe their hands completely clean of any residual vaseline let’s assume that fighter is greasing and cheating as well.

by pharmboy on Feb 2, 2009 7:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

exactly

 im sure you can find moments, betweeen rnds, in alot of fights and see trainers using vasoline on a fighters face and then using those same hands to rub their legs, shoulders, back etc without wiping them off.. but the fact that bj’s camp made such a ruckus about it, wev’e only seen gsp’s, gifs and one of pat militech. it seems that the most adamant people complaining are looking for an excuse as to why bj was dominated so easily imo.

by bdw on Feb 2, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Stop Blaming BJ's Camp

http://mmajunkie.com/news/13895/kizer-penn-yet-to-file-ufc-94-appeal-st-pierres-corner-could-face-action.mma

The commission had officials near both corners… Bj complained after rd. 2 to officials… Coincidentally officials near GSP’s corner had seen the application after rd 1… and studied again, and saw a different person than Nurse applying vaseline to the face and body of GSP (i believe Jackson)… They then wiped GSP’s body after rd. 2, and again to make sure, after rd. 3… They were very pissed… and Dana, and Chuck, and others were aware well before any complaint was made. BJ said he felt GSP may be a little more slick than usual AFTER the commission saw the infraction… Kizer wasn’t aware that BJ complained until today, and had acted on his own accord…

Stop blaming other people for mistakes made by GSP’s team… BJ isn’t the only one bringing it up… he wasn’t the first… and he wasn’t the loudest… Your love for GSP is blinding your judgment.

by Loot on Feb 2, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe the rule should be changed so that the only person allowed to use vaseline is the cutman.

"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007

by lovingmma25 on Feb 3, 2009 10:57 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

This is exactly what needs to happen. It’s amazing that this is the first time that this has become such a large scale issue. I guess that leaves my comment open to, “it wasn’t until BJ Penn’s fans started looking for excuses.”

Contributing writer for MMA-Analyst.com

by Joe Schmitt on Feb 3, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually the NSAC jumped in during the fight which lead to this becoming the first time, big time issue.

by bignerd on Feb 3, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jumped in, addressed it, fixed it, told BJ’s camp about it, etc etc etc

by subo on Feb 3, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I read several articles stating that BJ told the official in his corner after the first round.

"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007

by lovingmma25 on Feb 4, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Let`s face it…there is video of every GSP fight and if they show any evidence that this is a true ritual then maybe there is some truth to what is being said. Sho me the footage!

I'll be back to add more in the next twenty-four...unless, by some mishap, someone K.O s FEDOR.

by prideUFCfan on Feb 4, 2009 5:18 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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