Bloody Elbow February MMA Meta-Rankings: Light Heavyweight
| Fighter | % | Promotion | Last Rank |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1. Rashad Evans | 100 | UFC | 1 |
| 2. Quinton Jackson | 93 | UFC | 2 |
| 3. Lyoto Machida | 91 | UFC | 4 |
| 4. Forrest Griffin | 90 |
UFC | 3 |
| 5. Chuck Liddell | 76 |
UFC | 5 |
| 6. Wanderlei Silva | 72 |
UFC | 6 |
| 7. Keith Jardine | 66 |
UFC | 7 |
| 8. Mauricio Rua | 59 | UFC | 9 |
| 9. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira | 54 |
Affliction/WVR | 11 |
| 10. Thiago Silva | 50 |
UFC | 8 |
| 11. Renato Sobral | 45 |
Affliction/Strikeforce |
14 |
| 12. Dan Henderson | 41 |
UFC | 15 |
| 13. Luis Arthur Cane | 39 |
UFC | 10 |
| 14. Rich Franklin | 31 |
UFC | 13 |
| 15. Tito Ortiz | 27 |
Unsigned |
16 |
| 16. Vladimir Matyushenko | 21 | Affliction | 12 |
| 17. Matt Hamill | 17 | UFC |
19 |
| 18. Steve Cantwell | 17 |
UFC | 21 |
| 19. Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou | 16 |
Affliction | 17 |
| 20. Brandon Vera | 15 | UFC | 18 |
| 21. Jared Hamman | 14 |
Strikeforce | 24 |
| 22. Rafael Cavalcante | 14 |
Strikeforce | 23 |
| 23. Muhammed Lawal | 13 | WVR | 28 |
| 24. Mark Coleman | 13 |
UFC |
NR |
| 24. Wilson Gouveia | 13 |
UFC | 27 |
Commentary by Kid Nate: After his impressive KO win over #10 Thiago Silva, #3 Lyoto Machida has risen back to #3, passing former champ Forrest Griffin who slides down to #4. Machida will still have to wait for a title shot because #2 Quinton "Rampage" Jackson is in front of him.
Complicating things further, Rampage has to fight #7 Keith Jardine first because Rashad Evans wasn't able to be ready in time for UFC 96 in March and Dana White needed a headliner more than he needed a clear Light Heavyweight title picture.
Meanwhile #8 Mauricio "Shogun" Rua rises one position after his very unimpressive win over #24 Mark Coleman at UFC 93. He'll face #5 Chuck Liddell at UFC 97. Both fighters will be in an utter must-win situation. The winner will go from the frying pan to the fire as they're likely to have to face Lyoto Machida before getting a title shot.
#6 Wanderlei Silva is expected to drop down to middleweight after racking up a 2-4 record since 2006. Going into that run his stock was unbelievably high -- I remember after he won in the first round of the final PRIDE Open Class Grand Prix that people were talking about Wandy as the #1 P4P fighter in the world. Boy how things have changed. He still has fans and will be expected to contend at 185lbs.
#12 Dan Henderson will also be going back to middleweight after his UFC 93 win over #14 Rich Franklin. Those two fighters suffer a great deal from being ranked as middleweights by about half the sources we compile.
#9 Antonio Rogerio Nogueira is the highest ranked 205lber outside the UFC after his KO win over #16 Vladimir Matyushenko at the second Affliction show. It seems like #11 Renato "Babalu" Sobral would be the most logical next opponent for him but I doubt they'll fight each other. Babalu would seem to be in the catbird seat at the Strikeforce Light Heavyweight champion and is rumored to be facing EliteXC refugee #22 Rafael "Feijao" Cavalcante at the first Strikeforce show.
NOTE: The Meta-Rankings are not the subjective opinion of the BloodyElbow team, but rather a compilation of the rankings of over twenty leading MMA web sites. It is our opinion that these are the most informative MMA rankings anywhere.
Based on the premise that opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink. instead of putting up our own subjective fighter rankings, we compile and average the rankings of every source we could find online.
The goal is to show how the MMA community rates the fighters, not to bore you with our opinions.
Be sure and look at the percentage of possible points, they're a much more telling number than the ranking.
A total of 44 fighters were ranked in the top 25 by one source or another, for reasons of sanity I only track the top 25 most highly rated fighters.
25 points are awarded for a first place ranking, 16 for a 10th place ranking, 1 for a 25th place ranking. A formula is used to "normalize" the data so all fighters are awarded points from those lists that do not include a full 25 fighters. Fuller explanation below.
Rankings were compiled from the following 17 sites: 411 Mania, Cage Potato, Fight Matrix, Fight Magazine, Five Ounces of Pain, Inside MMA, MMA 4 Real, MMA ELO, MMA Fighting, MMA on Tap, MMA Playground, MMA Rocks, MMA Weekly, Sherdog, TAGG Radio, Total MMA & WAMMA.
The normalization scheme as explained by JCS of FightMatrix is here:
The "normalization number" (new name) would be:
120
divided by
(Total Fighters Found in Any List minus 10)Every fighter found somewhere else, but on a Top 10 list would be assigned this number.
The "normalization" number would not apply to a fighter not found on a Top 25 list. They would simply get 0.
So the process would be:
Do all of the Top 25 lists first, #1 = 25, #2 = 24…. #24 = 2, #25 = 1
Do all of the Top 10 lists, same scoring structure.. stops at #10 = 16Figure out that normalization variable.
Fill in the normalization variable to all fighters not found in the Top 10 lists, but found elsewhere.
Do your totals and rank.
0 recs |
47 comments
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Comments
Hmmm.....
Mark Coleman is #24 and Jon Jones is unranked. I realize the guy is young but come on, he can probably beat half the guys ranked 16-25 right now.
by ufc4 on Feb 12, 2009 9:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cantwell, Hamman and Cavalcante also have little business being ranked in the top 25.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 12, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why not Cantwell? 1-0 in the UFC, former WEC champion and only 22?
by subo on Feb 12, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When it comes to depth, the WEC at 205 was godawful.
by Tonley on Feb 12, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s armbarred Razak Al-Hassan and gone one and one with Brian Stann. Oh, he also defeated Tim McKenzie and Justin McElfresh. He’ll need another fight against better competition to enter the top-25.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 12, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right...
God, I’d hate it if he turned into another Sok.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 13, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What a stacked division. With Wanderlei out (and either Chuck or Shogun fixin’ for a fall), this could be the year that Luis Cane really climbs the ladder.
by subo on Feb 12, 2009 10:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Coleman has one fight at 205 in his career, and he’s 0-1. And he’s 24? What gives?
by Beer Monster on Feb 12, 2009 10:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
And he lost to a guy who looked like shit.
by ufc4 on Feb 12, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its a sad function of promotion I’m afraid. One thing I’ve noticed about poring over all these rankings sites is that by the time they get down to #25 some rankers are just plain out of ideas and rank anyone they remember hearing about.
Being in the co-featured fight at a recent UFC is going to get you in the top 25 no matter how poor your performance. We know that now.
Remember — the Meta-Rankings just reflect what the MMA community is saying — sadly the MMA community just isn’t always that smart or thoughtful.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Feb 12, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, considering that, and the fact that so few sites actually rank 25 fighters, maybe it would be more useful to just show the top 20 in the meta-rankings.
by ufc4 on Feb 12, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m willing to bet that it doesn’t have much to do with promotion since he’s only ranked by two computer rankings.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 12, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The funny thing is how Eric Schafer gets no love when his last two wins are over the exact same people Thiago Silva beat. In general, most sites seem to have no grasp on who is who after the top 10-12
by smoogy on Feb 12, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thiago SIlva’s only loss is to Lyoto Machida. Schafer has lost in the last three years to both Michael Bisping and Stephan Bonnar.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 12, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
say it ain’t so Nate
That's great, but how does it affect Lyoto Machida?
by beery_pbr on Feb 12, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking out of my ass
see Richard’s clarification above.
It’s a function of some sites being too clever by half and developing elaborate algorithms.
FightMatrix is usually great, but this is a failing of their system.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Feb 12, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec’d for brutal honesty (and living up to half of your sig line :-)
by subo on Feb 12, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
While I love me some Wandy...
I have a lot of problems with seeing him at #6 at this point. I know the losses have all been to top shelf guys but he is 2-4 in his last 6 fights at 205. At some point losses being to top opposition has to stop mattering compared to the fact that he is batting .333 in his weight class since August of ’05.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 12, 2009 10:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the guy is a legend but he definitely isn’t worthy of that high a ranking anymore. Maybe at his new weight class he can work his way to that spot but in the stacked 205 division he is definitely not worthy of being ranked #6.
by ufc4 on Feb 12, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wandy has three things going for him
1) His status as an All Time Great of the sport. The man’s already had a Hall of Fame career.
2) His popularity with fans.
3) His KO of Keith Jardine. That will get you somewhere — remember when Houston Alexander was being ranked by people off that win even after doing nothing else ever?
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Feb 12, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3) His KO of Keith Jardine. That will get you somewhere — remember when Houston Alexander was being ranked by people off that win even after doing nothing else ever?
I think I KO’d Keith Jardine once and I’m still baffled as to how Chuck Liddell didn’t. That may hold some sway in some people’s minds, but not to anyone that actually should be putting together such a list.
by ufc4 on Feb 12, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A devastating KO win over a top ten fighter matters.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 12, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but it shouldn’t matter enough to keep a guy in the top 6 who has only one other win in his last 6 fights.
by ufc4 on Feb 12, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who other than Henderson has an argument for being ranked ahead of him?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 12, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rankings...
in my eyes are more fluid than to consider someone’s status in the history of the sport when making rankings that reflect the landscape of the sport right at that moment. Shogun, Lil’ Nog, Babalu, Cane…hell…I could even put Thiago Silva ahead of him at this point. It’s hard to put Jardine ahead of him considering that he was viciously KO’ed by Wandy recently but at the same time comparing recent history favors Jardine more than Silva.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 12, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a list of who is the best fighters RIGHT NOW, not who has accomplished the most in their career, correct? In that case, I’ll take Noguiera, Babalu, Cane, Franklin, Thiago, King Mo (yeah that’s right), and Jon Jones.
by ufc4 on Feb 12, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this is a list of who is CONSIDERED the best fighters
by the MMA community online. And accomplishment is generally regarded as the standard, not ability.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Feb 12, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So why isn’t Chuck Liddell still ranked first, or Matt Hughes first in the welterweight division? Because it’s about what said fighter has accomplished lately, and Siva is 2-4 in his last 6, any other fighters in the top 25 (let alone top 10) with that kind of record?
by ufc4 on Feb 12, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He lost to a top 3 heavyweight, a top 3 middleweight and a top 3 light heavyweight against Cro Cop, Henderson and Rampage.
He also went 3 rounds with Liddell who was in the top 5 at the time, then bulldozed a top 10 fighter who had just beaten Liddell.
No one ranked above or below him has even come close to having that kind of strength of schedule, in anyweight class. Nog, Babalu, Thiago and Lawal have been winning, sure, but only against mediocre competition.
- is just about right for Silva.
by George Lucas on Feb 13, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh. I typed # 6 but for some reason it came up as 1.
by George Lucas on Feb 13, 2009 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The system is stupid when it comes to numbers at the start of a line. It thinks you’re making a list and “fixes” it for you.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2009 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Recent accomplishment would be more accurate since most (if not all) of the rankings sites only consider the last three years of fights.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Feb 13, 2009 7:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sick and tired of hearing about rankings
Most TOP light heavys have lost and Wanderlei Silva should be totally out of the picture…3 vicious kos in 2 to 3 years…1 win to show for it. Give me a break, I like Silva but he and other fighters on that list are NOT TOP 10 fighters. I guess who ever get promoted best is a top fighter…haha chucks on that list. What a joke
by Hellrazer on Feb 12, 2009 10:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How do people even have coleman ranked??!!!
He had 1 fight at light heavy and lost……….
by Hellrazer on Feb 12, 2009 10:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ask JCS.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 12, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FightMatrix does that
so as to allow fighters like Belfort and Franklin to have a reasonably accurate position when they change divisions. Its not properly accounting for Coleman’s age and the span between his fights.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Feb 12, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We account for the span between fights..
But not his age. It would be unfair to do things based on age.. its just something we can’t account for fairly.
by JCS_FM on Feb 13, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I really thought this division was deeper. After Tito I’m only looking at 2 guys were I nod my head and say he is an impressive fighter . . . I’m not referring to you Sokoudjou!
I can see Vera and Matyushenko hanging around the top 25 but both need to do something impressive in their next fight.
Wandy #6 . . . can’t we give these other guys some love. Seriously, Wandy is a loss away from being in Pulver territory.
by bignerd on Feb 13, 2009 12:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think this division is sort of separating out the way that many of the others have: there are a clear-cut top four or five, another level that could be potential challengers but no one is sure yet and they’d get killed by the elite, a level of gatekeepers, and some bottom tier guys on the way in or out. It’s much more stratified than in years past. That said, I’m expecting big moves out of Cane and possibly Hammil this year; I also think Thiago Silva can move up if he reacts well to his loss and strengthens his game.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 13, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
klown's objective* LHW ranking
1. Evans
2. Griffin
3. Jackson
4. Henderson
5. Liddell
6. W.Silva
7. Jardine
8. Rua
9. Machida
10. Ortiz
11. Cane
12. Sobral
13. Sokoudjou
14. Nogueira
15. T.Silva
- Ranks 1 thru 4: Each fighter has recently defeated the one below him.
- Jackson has defeated both Henderson and Liddell, but he knocked out Liddell in minutes, whereas Henderson went 5 hard-fought rounds with Rampage, so Henderson gets the higher rank
- Ranks 5 thru 7 are linear again
- Rua has defeated Jackson (#3) and lost to Griffin (#2) which arguably gives him the #3 rank. But his record of 1-1 with Coleman and his uninspiring performances make it hard to classify him in the same league as the Top 7 (At rare times, you have to make a subjective call, hence the asterisk in the subject line)
- Machida is incredible, and probably a future LHW champion. But to put him in with the Top 8, considering he has never faced a single one of them, is based on speculation, not actual accomplishment. In contrast, each Top 8 fighter has faced at least two others in that group. These guys have proven they can hang with each other and they are the undisputed elite. I believe Machida is not entitled to a title shot until he defeats one of those 8 fighters. The logical choice: Machida vs Griffin
- No fighter has more matches against Top 9 fighters than Ortiz. He has gone the distance with 4 of them, including a win over #2 Griffin and a draw with #1 Evans
by klown on Feb 13, 2009 12:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No ranking is objective
Unless you start from the beginning of time, and follow a set procedure of movement.
by JCS_FM on Feb 13, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2 notes:
- Further justification for Henderson’s ranking above Liddell: While both hold wins over W.Silva, it look Liddell a 3-round war, whereas Henderson flattened Silva
- Ranks 5 thru 7 are actually circular, with Jardine holding a win over Liddell. The way to resolve loops is to privilege 1) number of wins over the same opponent, 2) more recent wins over older wins 3) more decisive wins over closer wins. Jardine’s close win over Liddell has been surpassed by Liddell’s defeat of W.Silva and Silva’s annihilation of Jardine
by klown on Feb 13, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This division is finally sorting itself out…
by dbcb on Feb 13, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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