Karo Parisyan's Painkiller Cocktail Described By Doctor as "Unusual"
by Luke Thomas on Feb 11, 2009 12:13 PM EST
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Fighters Only Magazine has an interesting tidbit:
Speaking to Fighters Only earlier, Dr. Chris Lam (pictured) explained that the three drugs - Hydrocodone, Oxymorphone, and Hydromorphone - are all opiates, which are “probably the most powerful pain killer which are routinely used in medicine, normally being reserved for severe pain such as cancer pain”.
“In the UK at least, it would be very unusual for a doctor to prescribe opiates of the sort found in his test for muscular injuries such as hamstring injuries,” he said, referring to Parisyan’s claim that he took the drugs because of hamstring pain.
“It is also unusual to be given a cocktail of opiates as was found in his urine sample.”
...
“One of the main concerns with prescribing opiates is that they potentially can be addictive and habit forming especially if prescribed inappropriately,” he said.
Dr Lam is a British physician who is used by both the British Board of Boxing Control and the UFC as a ringside doctor for events in the UK and Ireland, where he has tended to the likes of Mirko ‘CroCop’ Filopovic, Mark Coleman and Matt Hughes.
There are three issues to unpack here. First, while not out of the question that one person could be prescribed all three of those painkillers simultaneously (or be allowed to take all three simultaneously), how likely is it that Karo actually has all three prescribed to him by medical professionals who understand precisely what Karo was ingesting? One can only hope there's no doctor shopping going on here.
Second, are the injuries Karo has so severe that he needs one - much less three - prescribed painkillers to cope with the pain?
Third, even if Karo has been prescribed these drugs by licensed medical doctors who are aware of everything he was ingesting, what athletic commission would approve such a fighter to be competing in high-level professional MMA bouts given those conditions? Karo may claim he has prescriptions for all three drugs and perhaps he does, but that in no way absolves him of the fact that taking those drugs only masks serious underlying health issues the commission would be forced to look into.
I'm sure there is a diversity of opinion on this matter, but the more I learn about the situation and the more Karo tries to explain himself, the more concerned I become.
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Wow!
It is very reasonable to assume Karo was able to get these prescriptions from three different doctors. Also, misuse of opiate based pain killers can lead to several mental disorders including anxiety and panic attacks. The brain is basically a delicate chemical reaction and introducing large amounts of chemically altering drugs over time creates an imbalance that is difficult to correct. I only hope Karo can get some quality care over the coming years while he deals with what appears to be a serious issue.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Karo is the next
Paulo Filho. Except Karo was never that good in the first place either
Gimme 1 Round!
yeah...
but Kerr had a run as one of the most dominant heavyweights in the sport. I don’t think Karo quite had that level of good before the fall
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 11, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
no but he had a good run as a welterweight contender and pioneered judo throws as an effective tool in MMA.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
Effective as to
winning by decision? I respect your opinion Nate, but I have never seen anything dangerous about him as an MMA fighter. Judo throws are really cool to see done, but if they are not followed up on by a sub or GNP then they are only for accumulating points & nothing else.
This is totally and completely wrong. A) he has used his judo for submissions like the kimura he got from a sumi-gaeshi over Dave Strasser, for starters, and b) being thrown like Karo throws keeps people off balance and can be a really frustrating, disorientating experience. It’s a very effective tool
by Luke Thomas on Feb 11, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Thank you for this. The claim that Judo throws and techniques aren’t useful in MMA is grossly overstated. Rec’d.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 11, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
From dnevil001:
…if [Judo throws] are not followed up on by a sub or GNP then they are only for accumulating points & nothing else.
Earlier, he implies that throws are not effective. Luke’s post counters that position and claims that Judo throws are more than a point grab.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 11, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks. They are effective, and add kool points for style, but you do need to be well rounded to incorporate them nicely.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
It’s effective, and nobody should take anything away from Karo, but from a purely analytical point of view in looking at his finishing methods, Karo doesn’t have the submission game that he should have.
If he truly wanted to be dominant, he’d have trained his top control submissions much better because his judo throws give him position, and that’s what Judo should be used for, putting opponents off balance, and giving him position. Once he gets position, he doesn’t really do much with it. I think that’s his #1 problem with being a decision fighter.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Feb 11, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Sure. I’m not here to suggest that Karo’s throws are going the best way to end a fight. In truth, to finish high level opposition you have to put submissions, guard passing and throws together. Sometimes Karo does that, sometimes he doesn’t. I just think people should have a healthy respect for being thrown particularly over and over again in the middle of a fight where you’re trying to implement a gameplan.
As someone whose been tossed around by an experienced judoka, I can tell you it fucking hurts and is extremely frustrating. And that was just sparring.
Judo throws can definitely be effective, and with a little luck and some power, can really put the pain on an opponent.
I think one of the best examples I’ve seen other than in the MMA world was during the Fight Quest show on Discovery. There were a few instances in which the guys felt the hurt of a judo throw. Throws can literally knock people out, and I agree, Luke. They can be effective.
My only problem with throws in general is that they have a very low percentage of really hurting your opponent. Disrupting gameplans, trying to jockey for position and then being thrown repeatedly, it’s definitely an effective weapon though. Very disruptive, but I really wish Karo would gain a little bit more of a ground game, maybe even some more strength to put the power submissions on guys after he’s successfully disoriented guys with his throws.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Feb 11, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
The best example was used on Joe riggs
on the strikeforce card where he fucked his back up
Gimme 1 Round!
I was thinking the exact same incident. The only problem is that Joe Riggs is a perennial favorite for massively injuring himself. He’s just flat out injury prone.
There are some pretty sweet examples in the Olympics of guys getting completely tossed into a dazed state and unable to defend themselves.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Feb 12, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
Karo has the submission skills, he just hasn’t been conditioned well enough to risk implementing them.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
I can definitely agree with that, and it shows.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Feb 11, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
I am not discounting Judo as an effective weapon
in MMA, but Karo has not done anything in quite a while when he has faced top opponents. True, this may be a result of the issues that we are hearing about now, but judo without developing the other necessary aspects of MMA is not enough to win except by outpointing your opponent. I respect your opinion Luke & admit my judo knowledge is definitely not what yours is, so this is just my opinion.
There is no way...
a doctor would give a prescription for THREE different pain drugs. This is a serious problem, the AC checks these things for a reason. Look what happened to Paulo Filho. He went from a top 5 Middleweight to a shell of his former self and seemed to be talking to an imaginary person in the ring. Things like this needed to be taken care of immediately before we have a potential Chris Benoit esque catastrophe on our hands.
Perhaps he was dealing with the pain of life
If your brain is messed up, get high. That’s one way to deal with anxiety.
Can someone remind me?
Is UFC 94 a Vegas card where they did no out of fight/pre-fight drug testing for some reason? They just did it post fight?
If so I wonder if Karo would have or should have been fighting if they had?
I think him and Anna Nicole Smith share the same doctor, you know, the one that just got raided by the Feds last week.
by El Mexicutioner on Feb 11, 2009 12:55 PM EST reply actions
It sounds more like self-medicating than a physical ailment. He needs therapy, badly. Between panic attacks and this, he doesn’t sound quite right in the head. Get help, man!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 11, 2009 1:17 PM EST reply actions
I would also like to add, that it is a testament to his actual skill level that he could even force a split decision against a guy like Stun Gun. With his pill troubles it’s obvious to me that he isn’t training properly.
Imagine how good he could be living clean? Sickening the talet he has and is wasting.
yeah its a huge drag
He’s admitted that he had submissions set up in many fights but since he was in bad shape he couldn’t take the risk and had to hold on for the decision.
I hope he can get it together.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
He is making things even worse
by threatening the commission to not mess up his upcoming possible fight w/Koscheck. Someone really needs to talk to Karo to get him to shut up & realize the trouble he is in.
It’s a testament to his skill level that he forced a split decision against Stun Gun while hopped up on drugs? Really? I think you could also argue the other side — had he not had so many drugs in his system that he could feel nothing, maybe Stun Gun would have been able to get an advantage and won the decision. As it was, he should have gotten the decision.
It’s a shame that Karo is so messed up. But I refuse to overlook the drugs and act like it somehow shows that he’s even “greater” than we all thought because he showed up and compted while high on opiates.
Oxymorphone is no joke. I have no medical training, but I am pretty sure that its an inject able and not for the “casual” drug user. I wish Karo the best, but if he can take oxymorphone and function, it is not a good sign.
That's great, but how does it affect Lyoto Machida?
according to its wiki – its available via injection or suppository under the name Numorphan here in the states —
In some countries Hydromorphinol is sold under the same trade name – Numorphan and Numorphan Oral. But they aren’t the same drug
— and
Opana and Opana Extended release as tablets.
Its supposed to be 6-8 times as potent as morphine. WAR KARO MMA’s FIRST JUNKIE!!! Anxiety disorder my ass – You just don’t wanna be in the light when you could be curled up in a disheveled room, arm tied off with a syringe still hanging there while you have a good nod. I can’t wait to see him sitting on the corner of Haight and Ashbury by Golden Gate park
Gimme 1 Round!
Ironically
I’m watching a movie called “Candy”, where Heath Ledger plays a junkie, while typing this
Gimme 1 Round!
oxydodone = oxycontin (most powerful pill-form opioid agonist)
hydromorphone= dilaudid (most powerful pill-form of morphine)
Theres no way around it. Karo must be an addict to function with these in his system at once. Im sure his anxiety in his previous bout might have come from attempting to cut weight and refrain from using for the 3-5 days that it stays in your urine before the fight. Makes me cringe just thinking about having to go through that.
Dana better not baby him after suspending James Irvin, who at least had methadone in his system which is a sign that he’s trying to absolve his problem.
by beersnbroads on Feb 12, 2009 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
How long until the UFC cuts Karo?
Karo had some exciting fights, albeit a couple of years ago, but my guess is the UFC will want to part ways with him soon. If he applied himself, I have no doubt he could reach an elite status. But, he has been threatening for a while now to get in shape and train, and the results, well they aren’t there. I personally was hoping he would get in shape and drop to 155, but that requires focus and dedication… it’s just sad.
by I don't wear mma t-shirts on Feb 11, 2009 3:23 PM EST reply actions
Fight Coulb Be Ruled a NC
Karo Parisyan could have his split-decision win over Dong Hyun Kim changed to a no contest after failing a post-fight drug test, according to the Nevada State Athletic Commission.
NSAC executive Keith Kizer told Fighters Only that there are four grounds for a decision to be overturned, one of which is providing a positive sample.
"[When] there is a failed drug test, the commission at its discretion could overturn a victory or draw and make it a no contest. We have actually done that a few times, that is the most common of the four [grounds for overturning the decision]."
Parisyan will appear in front of the commission next Tuesday to explain why he had threee different opiate sin his system at the time of the UFC 94 fight.
News
11/02/09 – Parisyan fight could be ruled no contst, says NSAC chief
Karo Parisyan could have his split-decision win over Dong Hyun Kim changed to a no contest after failing a post-fight drug test, according to the Nevada State Athletic Commission.
NSAC executive Keith Kizer told Fighters Only that there are four grounds for a decision to be overturned, one of which is providing a positive sample.
"[When] there is a failed drug test, the commission at its discretion could overturn a victory or draw and make it a no contest. We have actually done that a few times, that is the most common of the four [grounds for overturning the decision]."
Parisyan will appear in front of the commission next Tuesday to explain why he had threee different opiate sin his system at the time of the UFC 94 fight.
He has claimed that the drugs were prescribed, but that he forgot to mention them on a pre-fight disclosure form because he was concentrating on his preparations for the bout.
However, Kizer says that even if the drugs do turn out to have been prescribed, it is unlikely to mitigate the length of ban that Parisyan is likely to be handed.
It was Parisyan’s first fight of 2009 and his first in nine months since losing to Thiago Alves in April 2008, his only fight that year.
Gary Alexander & John Joe O’Regan
http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/news/viewarticle.php?id=1856
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 11, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Question then...
Why was Sean Sherk and Antonio Silva’s fights not overturned since they tested positive for steroids and yet Diaz/Gomi was cause he got popped for ganja?
And neither was Tim Sylvia when he tested positive after the Gan McGee fight? That fight wasn’t overturned either.
Because Nick would have quit
had he been able to feel each punch he took to his broken eye orbital. Instead he was able to continue because he was so high on a Nor*Cal Indica buzz that he didn’t even know he was in a fight, much less was he able to feel his broken bone. Thats why he got a NC
Gimme 1 Round!
lol that would be nice
Kim would remain undefeated…
And the fight is officially OFF......
Talking to MMANews.com, Koscheck explained:
"I was suppose to fight him at UFC 98 on May 23rd but he tested positive for drugs or steroids or something like that, I’m not really sure, but that fight is now off. I will be fighting on the card but right now my focus is not on that fight. I’m focused on Paulo Thiago."
So who should he fight?
Jake Shields.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 12, 2009 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
Good one.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 12, 2009 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
Let’s limit it to people currently under contract by Zuffa. How about Rumble? That could be a real shootout.
Either Rumble or Davis. I think that Rumble could probably use another fight before that one for development’s sake and I don’t think that Davis has the defensive wrestling or jiu-jitsu off of his back to be much of a challenge, but there really isn’t anybody left coming off a win that Koscheck 1) hasn’t already fought, 2) is near his level, and 3) not part of his camp.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 12, 2009 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Fighting Condit at Fight Night 18 on April 1st. That would be a pretty short turn-around, even if he doesn’t get hurt at all.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 12, 2009 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
Oh OK didn’t realize he had his next fight setup already I know he just fought a few weeks ago. So like u said earlier, he really has a pretty short list of potential opponents. Like I said, I’d really like to see him fight Rumble but u might be right, UFC might not want him fighting a top 5 guy already, they may be looking to build him a bit more slowly and give him one or two more fights against lower ranked guys, guess we’ll have to see. Kos would be a pretty big step up in competition.
Is Hazelett scheduled to fight anyone soon?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2009 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
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