Karo Parisyan Told Commission About Prescriptions After the Fight
MMAWeekly has more info on the Karo Parisyan situation. Apparently he disclosed his use of painkillers to NSAC inspectors AFTER the fight but failed to disclose on the pre-fight forms:
A distraught Parisyan told MMAWeekly.com, "I told (the commission) ‘listen, by the way, if pain pills come positive, I have prescription, I told you.' They said, ‘no problem, as long as you have a prescription for it, and it's like a pain pill, it's not a big deal.'
Kizer received a copy of the prescription the following week, but disputes Parisyan's recollection of the post-fight conversation.
"I mean, I wasn't back there, but that's nothing we'd say," said Kizer.
...
"It's up for the commission to decide," said Kizer. "I don't think so, but it's up for the commission to decide. You can't wait till after the fight, when they're about to urinate in the cup, and say ‘oh, by the way, I took a prohibited substance yesterday.' That's what it sounds like happened here, but we'll give him his chance to explain to the full commission."
Karo's explanations so far don't inspire much confidence in his chances with the commission:
"I did not even think about any of that stuff," he said. "I was just thinking about my fight, and my anxiety and how I'm going to walk in the cage. I had so many problems in my head. I didn't even think I should write - I was just doing it fast, fast, fast, just to get out there and weigh in and fight. I completely forgot about all this stuff.
"When he asked me after the fight, my mind was calm, my body was calm, and I was thinking about the urine test. They say I didn't say it before, and I know that's my mistake. They can't hold that against me. I didn't kill anybody. I even told the main guy. He said, ‘Karo, as long as you didn't take anabolic drugs, or cocaine, or any of that crazy stuff, you should be fine as long as you've got the prescription.'"
Parisyan also talked about his training plans for his possible match against Josh Koscheck at UFC 98:
"They better not do anything to screw that up," said Parisyan. "I'm gonna go beyond training for this fight. The deal is, I couldn't travel because of my anxiety. I would go crazy in hotel rooms and et cetera, so all kinds of reasons. But now, thank God, I'm fine. I can travel and I can train. And that's what I'm shooting for, I want to travel and train with St. Pierre and my original camp, with Greg Jackson, and I'll be in the best shape of my life. I guarantee that. I'm not (expletive) around no more. Everything that I was (expletive) around with, no more."
I've never made a secret of being a big Karo fan. I'm a sucker for the flashy judo throws and his epic bouts with Diego Sanchez, Nick Diaz and Georges St. Pierre, not to mention his demolition of Nick Thompson are the kinds of performances I will long remember. But it does seem that our boy has gotten himself into more than a bit of a fix.
Its also frustrating to see Karo's difficulty in grasping the situation he's in. His line "They better not do anything to screw that up" referring to the commission and his possible bout with Josh Koschek is telling -- Karo is still blaming other people for his problems and talking about how he's going to train really really hard NEXT time.
Hopefully Karo will get a fair hearing, get the time to heal his injuries and get his head together. I also hope the UFC will stand by him through any suspension that may be handed down.
Even though his last couple of fights have been disappointing, I'm not ready to give up on Karo. He's young. He's talented. He's skilled. He's a very game and fearless fighter.
I look forward to seeing him fight again after he's resolved his problems with the NSAC. Hopefully he'll make some headway with his bigger and more intractable opponent -- himself.
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72 comments
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Comments
Taking opiates before a fight is cheating. They “help” you with both pain and anxiety. I’m sorry to see that Karo has a problem with opiates. You can also get hgh, epogen and almost all steroids for certain medical illnesses. But it’s cheating if you take them before an mma fight.
You’ve got a long road ahead of you karo.
by pwdminotauro on Feb 10, 2009 10:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah
Karo screwed the pooch on this one. Taking painkillers before a fight is bad — unfair to your opponent. See Ken Shamrock vs Don Frye for an example. Frye got both legs seriously injured by leg locks and didn’t tap.
Its also a risk a fighter shouldn’t be allowed to take with his own health. If he needs to be taking pain pills, he shouldn’t be fighting.
And going into the Octagon with dulled senses, slowed reflexes, and an inability to accurately gauge your condition — not a good idea.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Feb 10, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
where the hell is Karo’s head this past year?
by Benicio on Feb 11, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The also give you energy.
If I were to fight someone, I would insist on taking pain pills beforehand. Karo is in serious denial. I know several people with substance problems and he sounds just like them.
by Patrick79x on Feb 11, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see how the NASC can come down on Nick Diaz becaue they said weed help him fight painlessly during a fight and can’t give Karo a similar punishment.
by Dexerion on Feb 10, 2009 11:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
marijuana lovers still hate that ruling though.
AWmusic - mp3 blog on independent music..
by achengy on Feb 10, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s because its the biggest crock of shit from every perspective including pharmacology. A) Urine tests only tell you that the fighter used, not that there were euphoric effects when the fighter competed and b) THC only reduces pain by partially eliminating various forms of swelling or muscular pressure. Thus, the NSAC only busted Diaz because they fancy themselves vice cops.
I’m all for making sure fighters aren’t high on marijuana when they fight, but the only test that determines that is a blood test. Until the commission decides to use them, their entire system is a joke.
by Luke Thomas on Feb 10, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
“b) THC only reduces pain by partially eliminating various forms of swelling or muscular pressure.”
Translation: it does not make one impervious to pain or better able to cope with the harsh effects from a MMA fight. Only matters like chronic ailments or interocular eye pressure.
by Luke Thomas on Feb 10, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
Should read: Chronic inflamed ailments like arthritis.
by Luke Thomas on Feb 10, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bottem line is that it is banned in the rule, if they piss and pop up positive for anything banned then I don’t think they need to apply logic to the action they need to take to the fighter. I.E. if they banned baby asprin and you piss positive for it then you are suspended unless there is resonable doubt about the test result. That is not to say they shouldn’t always be inspecting there own rules to make sure they are fair. If pot made diaz superman or not, he broke the rule and got himself a NC. Is that dumb, maybe, but tough shit.
And testing blood just to see if they were high durring the fight is not such a good idea. I am for testing blood, but testing to see if they were high and fighting is like saying you won’t suspend a guy for steroids because he didn’t use strength to win the fight. Or like arguing if HGH helps you hit a baseball. If you are licenced under the AC then you have to follow the AC rules or you get your status revoked.
by szucconi on Feb 10, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then you’re cool with the athletic commission being a proxy vice cop. I am not. I think it’s reasonable to ask why substances are on the list. When Diaz popped and Kizer was pressed for an answer he responded that he believed marijuana was something a performance enhancer, which no medical doctor in the land would ever corroborate. So what we have is that: it is what it is. I’m sorry, but that will never be a justification for me. The schedule placement of marijuana is a total joke, so what the athletic commission must do is acknowledge as much. If they are going to test for it just because, well, it’s against the law and that’s it, then they should say so. They should admit they are perfectly willing to damage fighters’ careers for positively no good reason, deterrence or otherwise. As of now, they are not employ vice cop policies, they are adding another laying by costing taxpayers money for a test that proves nothing.
If you’re cool with that, ok. But I’m not and I’m not because it’s bullshit. Someone needs to call the commission on this.
by Luke Thomas on Feb 10, 2009 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
“As of now, they are not employ vice cop policies”
Should read: as of now, they are not only employing vice cop policies
by Luke Thomas on Feb 10, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, the steroids argument you make doesn’t hold up. Steroid effects aren’t temporary and they bring serious health concerns. Marijuana – unless we are talking heavy use over a very, very prolonged period and even then they are but a fraction of what can happen to you under steroids in the short run – doesn’t have the same effects. In addition, after marijuana wears off, the person goes back to square one with their physical capacities. Not so with steroids. The two are not comparable in this regard.
by Luke Thomas on Feb 10, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I am not arguing the issue of Marijuana as a performance enhancer. I have not read the research. I am not educated enough to make the call. I am saying that if he is dirty by the rules then he is dirty. Change the rules, thats fine, but follow them aswell. You said your self that you wouldn’t think it would be safe for someone to fight high, well then how high is too high to fight? That is subjective. We have seen that issue crop up with Sherk, as in what level is positive for steroids. It sounds like you have more of an issue with the fed then you do with the AC. Question: If Marijuana was legal do you think the AC would ban it or test for it at all?
by szucconi on Feb 10, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Luke is arguing in defense of Diaz, he’s arguing for a rules change.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Feb 11, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is more of a case that it is in the rules because it is illegal and they can test for it in urine. They won’t change it because being illegal is enough to keep a rule change from happening. So I think it falls back to the fed. I also think that if they didn’t test for it then they wouldn’t add it to the banned list unless it was obvious that fighters were all high at fight time, which is possible.
by szucconi on Feb 11, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus, I've never smoked pot in my life
and I completely come down beside you on this one, Luke. The rules are absolutely ludicrous, and the athletic commissions need to either A) make their intent to be a symbolic arm of the DEA/FDA/whatever-blank-A in their ‘war on drugs,’ or B) get out of the business of testing/punishing for the presence of drugs which are not proven performance enhancers, since it has nothing to do with fighters/fighting.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Feb 11, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right on Luke!
Same thing with hgh. Only a blood test can confirm it’s usage. Like lesnar isnt on any??? I’m sure most of them are, hell, most baseball players are. Plus with the ufc bringing down so much pressure to win with exciting fashion you can somewhat understand.
by BOW on Feb 11, 2009 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How is this agreeing with Luke's point?
I love armchair quarterbacks..
by Blackout612 on Feb 11, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey blackout:
Bc he was talking about only using a piss test! Learn to read!!! and armchair qb? that doesnt even make sense! WOW!
by BOW on Feb 11, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still pissed about them ruling Diaz - Gomi a NC
what bullshit that was.
but the precedent is clear for the Karo-Kim fight.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Feb 10, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they didn't rule Barnett-Couture a NC
or any other steroid impacted fight.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Feb 10, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's fucked.
Barnett may have been stripped of the belt, but he still keeps the win on his record, and Randy keeps the loss, despite testing positive for steroids. Diaz takes a depressant and hallucinogen, and they bend him over. In what world is THC more dangerous than Steroids?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Feb 10, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What ever they are going to do when a guy tests dirty, they need to apply the rules the same across the board.
by szucconi on Feb 10, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They definitely do
I think they wanted to shift stances to a harsher penalty so in theory I like no contesting a victory if the fighter fails his pee test.
Marijuana is a bit of different issue though, Rogan a pot advocate says its a performance enhancer (for the concentration or something).
AWmusic - mp3 blog on independent music..
by achengy on Feb 10, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They didn’t over turn the Sherk win. I know it was because Franca got popped too, but they still need to over turn it.
by szucconi on Feb 11, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No way
Technically, Franca was more guilty. Sherk was essentially found to be half guilty.
by Blackout612 on Feb 11, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So Sherk should get an extra half win?
by szucconi on Feb 11, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2 More Wins
But for real, I’ve been in more than my share of debates over that whole thing… The CSAC was such a joke during that whole process, I just laughed at every subsequent failure in their operation.
by Blackout612 on Feb 11, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a different they, so you can’t really compare that
by Phildo on Feb 11, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Concentration?
I would agree to that. The only thing is you would have to smoke right before you came out to fight. I’m sure it was just in his system. I guess he could have eaten a brownie or something, but I really doubt that.
by BOW on Feb 11, 2009 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember correctly, the NSAC didn’t have the power to overturn fights for failed drug tests when Barnett vs Couture took place. It’s the same reason why the CSAC couldn’t overturn the result of Gracie vs Sakuraba in 2007. Has there been a high profile steroid failure for a winner in a fight in Nevada in the last few years?
by rabrown on Feb 11, 2009 4:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His line “They better not do anything to screw that up” referring to the commission and his possible bout with Josh Koschek is telling — Karo is still blaming other people for his problems and talking about how he’s going to train really really hard NEXT time.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Karo, YOU are the one that fucked up, not the NSAC. Just because you already had this fight set up and you need the money doesn’t mean that you are allowed to break the rules. Don’t try and drop your problems in someone else’s lap, if you had taken care of yourself before you never would have had this problem.
by ufc4 on Feb 10, 2009 11:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, but Karo gets no third chance
I also hope the UFC will stand by him through any suspension that may be handed down.
Gotta disagree on this one. I respect his heart and skill in the fights you mention, but the dude clearly doesn’t have his head on straight and Dana would be a fool not to get far away from him before Karo totally self-combusts.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on Feb 10, 2009 11:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why "third"?
What was his first strike? If you mean the panic attacks, that was a medical emergency and shouldn’t count against him.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Feb 10, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It just seems like it's always something with him
His emotions are constantly getting the better of him and interfering with his ability to perform at the top level. It’s like a baseball player who needs to be sent down to the minor leagues to get his head on straight. Too bad there’s no place for him in the WEC.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on Feb 10, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not going anywhere
I’m going to get out on this limb and say that without reservation…
by Blackout612 on Feb 10, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He may end up
being on the shelf for another year though.
AWmusic - mp3 blog on independent music..
by achengy on Feb 10, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Comment is in reference to the UFC sticking with him.
by Blackout612 on Feb 10, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would ? his heart!
He is a punk that needs to take fighting seriously. Plus is there anyone that even thought he won his last fight? Worse decision since Bonnar/Jarden!!!
by BOW on Feb 11, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
watch the name calling
We don’t allow fighter bashing here at BE.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Feb 11, 2009 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if he wants to take pain killers before a fight, there is always japan….
by dbcb on Feb 10, 2009 11:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have the solution
3 man royal rumble with Karo, Paulo Filho, and War Machine, winner gets a new 4 fight deal.
by ufc4 on Feb 10, 2009 11:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No Contest
Paulo talks to the ghost of War Machine’s dad while Karo picks Paulo’s pocket for his pill counter.
by Blackout612 on Feb 10, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s assuming War Machine posted bail in time to make it to the fight, gotta stay away from those gay clubs, they are always trouble.
by ufc4 on Feb 11, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Forgive me if I’m missing something here, but didn’t they do a pre-fight drug test? How did they not catch this before Karo stepped into the cage?
by smoogy on Feb 10, 2009 11:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If you are talking about the ones a few weeks before the fights, they just choose some fighters randomly I believe, they don’t test everyone.
by ufc4 on Feb 11, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I don’t think they did them for this show.
by Michael Rome on Feb 11, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.fightscoops.com/UFC/Nevada_State_Athletic_Commission_Tests_Zero_UFC_94_Fighters.shtml
You’re right Michael.
by ufc4 on Feb 11, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My mistake I guess, I thought they had mandatory pre-fight testing the week of the event in Nevada, like they do in California. That is how Kimo got busted before the WFA event in 2006:
“Kimo Leopoldo has been pulled from the co-main event of the WFA’s King of the Streets card due to his failure of a pre-fight drug test, and the WFA is currently attempting to secure a replacement.”
The fact that the NSAC adopted a policy of random out-of-competition testing and then failed to actually follow up on it in practice is a bit perplexing/disappointing. If pre-fight screening is also not taking place in Nevada, it makes me question how badly they really want to catch cheaters.
by smoogy on Feb 11, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It does suck that they stopped. They tested 10 people before 91, but no one before 92 or 94. I wonder if they’ll come out with a reason, although I wouldn’t be surprised if they cited the economy.
by Phildo on Feb 11, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The lack of any pre-fight drug screen is unacceptable, whether in a respected jurisdiction like Nevada, or when UFC is acting as its own de-facto regulator when they run shows in the UK and beyond. Fighters like Chris Leben and Karo Parisyan likely would not have been allowed to compete if there were proper testing procedure practices.
People like subo who consider all fights in unregulated countries like Japan suspect should be very concerned about these developments.
by smoogy on Feb 11, 2009 1:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am concerned, but to compare the NSAC or CSAC to the absolute nothingness that is Japanese MMA testing is a little much at this point. And the UFC deserves nothing but credit for publicizing a positive Leben test that they had no legal obligation to highlight.
by subo on Feb 11, 2009 1:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my suspicion is they hoped doing it a few times would be enough of a deterrent to not have to do it every time.
by Michael Rome on Feb 11, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dude how can u be such an avid karo fan?? the man talks sooo much and comes through with nothing these days. he was talking about how he was so amazing in his last fight…. that was pathetic and i scored most of the fight against him. he actually said that he wants to fight gsp. his insecurities are forthright to say the least and the man does not deserve the slightest bit of leeway. flush that tool dana hes old news
by beersnbroads on Feb 11, 2009 12:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Are you familiar with his bouts against Serra, Diaz, Sanchez, Thompson, Burkman, or GSP? Highly exciting fights, all of them.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Feb 11, 2009 1:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i consider that the old karo…. plus only half those fights really that great anyways. maybe i just really cant stand his attitude. actually im sure of that, but hes not that great of a fighter too
by beersnbroads on Feb 11, 2009 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that’s why people are fans of Karo – it’s only the last three fights and the last-minute pullout that look bad. It’s like saying Cro Cop was never likable because his UFC stint was awful, despite tearing through the OWGP.
Karo’s career is certainly waning, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t great back in the day.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Feb 11, 2009 1:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Suspension + no contest, anything else is favoritism given the precedents they’ve established with similar details.
If they slap him on the wrist, I guess their stance is that THC (marijuana) is a super drug that makes you strong, but steroids and prescription pain killers (don’t know what doctor would prescribe all 3, making this more of a street drug scenario) are perfectly legal and if you dont mind sitting out for 6 months ( most fighters do sit out 3+ between fights) then pop some roids, get some vicodin and run in there like a crazed maniac and eliminate your opponent.
The NSAC will be a joke if they let his win stand, and take away Diaz’s win, as much as a joke as they were when they let Barnett keep his win, Sylvia keep his win.. I wonder if it had to do more with who Diaz was fighting for(Pride), than what he did wrong?
Will be interesting to see if the NSAC continues to carry their pro-UFC bias in no contests.
by DirtyML on Feb 11, 2009 1:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The NSAC will be a joke if they let his win stand, and take away Diaz’s win, as much as a joke as they were when they let Barnett keep his win, Sylvia keep his win.. I wonder if it had to do more with who Diaz was fighting for(Pride), than what he did wrong?
Will be interesting to see if the NSAC continues to carry their pro-UFC bias in no contests.
Uhhh. . . what?
How is that pro-UFC? If they take away a win from one fighter, they take away a loss from another fighter. It evens out.
If anything, giving Diaz a NC was pro-Pride, because it took away a loss from Pride’s LW champion.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 11, 2009 5:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to give them a chance to conduct the process.
by Phildo on Feb 11, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Using those drugs definitely helps with panic attacks and extreme anxiety, Karo needs to face the fact that he may need to take some real anti anxiety or anti-depression medications to move forward with his life.
I listened to an interview where he apparently had prescriptions for his mental health but claimed that he refused to take them (sometimes hard to follow exactly what Karo is really saying), and that he was able to get over it on his own.
Many people see panic attacks and anxiety as a personal weakness and knowing the culture that Karo is from and the culture of MMA, it’s easy to see him trying to play it off and then finding the pain pills help him feel like he’s got it under control.
If he continues to deny that he needs help, he may be placing his career in serious jeopardy (again).
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 11, 2009 1:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I can’t believe that anyone is actually in favor of the bs that happened to Nick Diaz, the NSAC is about 1 more idiotic ruling away from being the same as their counterparts over at the CSAC. The idea that anyone would also try to throw out the cheating card is also laughable no wonder the vaseline nonsense took most apparantly people will believe anything they are told.
I’m going to be watching these hearing very closely because I want to make sure that Karo gets a fair and just hearing, i’ve been one harsh on Kizer because I believe he’s been wrong on several counts. Hopefully Karo will have his representation ready to fight this becasue if he had a prescription for these meds than I have no problem with things staying as they are.
by Raker on Feb 11, 2009 2:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That’s complete nonsense.
Would you be OK if someone had a prescription for steroids then and tested positive? What about a prescription for HGH?
The Athletic Commission is well within their rights to ban certain prescription drugs and not let you fight if you are on them. Otherwise everyone would just go out and get prescriptions for roids.
by Phildo on Feb 11, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if u need a pain killer to fight, you shouldn’t be fighting.
by dbcb on Feb 11, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re for using Vaseline on the body and opiate use by fighters?
It takes all kinds I guess.
by dualdiagnosis on Feb 11, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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