Satoshi Ishii Should Listen to Dana White
by Kid Nate on Feb 10, 2009 3:20 PM EST
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Apparently, Ishii has already signed with the UFC but is having second thoughts because of the amount of money he's being offered by other promotions. As reported by MMA Weekly, Dana White makes it clear that he has Ishii's best interests at heart:
"I don't believe in the Japanese philosophy, let's throw him in there and get him (expletive) murdered like Sakuraba," he spat. "You know, the whole guts and glory thing over in Japan. I believe in taking a kid, putting him in the right weight class, moving him up, and taking time.
"If he does it the right way with us, he'll be a superstar in Japan. It's a much better deal for him than going in and getting executed by guys who have been fighting for a long time...because they need to make a fight right now so they can survive. See, Dream-needs him. I don't. I want him."
...
As for Ishii's decision, White-in a perhaps uncharacteristic display of contractual tolerance-said he would be willing to release the Judoka if he wanted so.
"Well, yeah, I'm going to hold on to him, I've got a contract with him," White began. "But if he comes back and tells me I want to take this lottery ticket, I'll give it to him. He needs to decide what he wants to do with his life. Just because I have a contract with him, I'm not going to try to tell him what he should do with his life. I've sat down and I've talked to him for hours on what I think he should do with his career. Now it's up to him. You can't force anybody to be a mixed martial arts fighter, they have to want to do it.
I have been idly batting around the idea of writing some pieces outlining the differences in how MMA is seen in Japan and the U.S. One of the points I'd like to make is that fundamentally the Japanese don't see MMA as a sport in and of itself. They still see a MMA as a FIGHT in which practitioners of different disciplines test themselves rather than as a discipline in and of itself.
This is one struggle I hope Dana wins. Ishii has big potential in MMA but we'll never see it realized if he's thrown in at the deep end in DREAM.
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If he listens to Dana, he will be making 2 mill a fight in 3 years. If not, he may fade away in Japan.
Guess you only fight top competition if your a Man Beast named Brock Lesnar. i say throw him in there with a solid gatekeeper he does well then let him fight up to the top. if he gets crushed then he still has time to recover train harder and make a career of it.
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
Just because I have a contract with him, I’m not going to try to tell him what he should do with his life.
-Dana White…wait that can’t be right…-
lol, exactly what I was thinking.
The day Dana lets a signed fighter out of a contract to go immediately into another competition is the day Luke’s “burned out” post comes true & the Fertittas kick his butt into retirement! I love Dana, but I bet even he laughed while saying that.
there’s a huge difference between Ishii and anyone else in this situation.
Dana could use Ishii to move into Japan, and he could, but Ishii walking away before fighting is entirely different than Couture or anyone else doing it.
Most UFC fans have no clue who this guy is, him walking wouldn’t really do much.
I agree partially with your reasoning,
but ultimately there is little chance Dana would let him walk to Affliction after having him signed already.
He didn’t say he’d let him walk to Affliction. He said he’d let him walk to Japan. There’s such a thing as a conditional release.
Well Dana is responding
as if there is something to them. I do not see him even addressing this if it was pure conjecture.
Huh?
That’s misguided. You think Dana is addressing this situation with Affliction trying to undercut him in mind? He’s talking about Japan my man..
I seriously doubt Dana is concerned at all with Japan.
Right now his only competition is Affliction & Strikeforce & I do not remember seeing Ishii wearing a Dream t-shirt the other day.
Dude, I’m not exactly sure where you’re getting this from. Dana’s concern with Dream is unrelated to Dana’s willingness to let Ishii out of his contract. Hell, he says outright in the quote above that Dream needs him. In other words, Dream is offering huge money to potentially take Ishii away from the UFC.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
HA.
No way thats happening. And all the reports I hear is the big money offers are from Dream.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Seems ridiculous...
What’s Afflction going to do with Ishii anyways? It makes absolutely zero sense. Are they going to suddenly expand to Japan? That’s the only real reasoning to get him at this point in his career, and they are already stretched thin.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Feb 10, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
The thinking..
..is that they’re going to ride him like a surfboard into Japan and forge a partnership with FEG or some such shit.
I understand that idea, and I know they have some connections with FEG. Ishii would have to be unbelievably stupid. If the UFC expands to Japan and is successful with him as part of the promotion, his money making abilities are endless and it would finally make the UFC able to stay in Japan.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Feb 10, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
If Ishi wanted to leave while under contract AFTER Zuffa invested in promoting him then no way would he be let go…
At this point its a different story… nobody wants someone working for them who has buyers remorse.
Gone soft?
Clearly Dana was out partying with War Machine immediately prior to this interview.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
I have been idly batting around the idea of writing some pieces outlining the differences in how MMA is seen in Japan and the U.S. One of the points I’d like to make is that fundamentally the Japanese don’t see MMA as a sport in and of itself. They still see a MMA as a FIGHT in which practitioners of different disciplines test themselves rather than as a discipline in and of itself.
Go to details about how Japanese see MMA as a fight rather than a sport, if you don’t mind? Very Interesting, I like to read that piece.
by The Bronzeville Bully on Feb 10, 2009 3:32 PM EST reply actions
as soon as I have a little bit of time
I’m still chewing on the ideas.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
There is alot of emphasis in some of the matchups on art vs. art. They love to do the Gold Medalist Judo guys against MMA guys as a fight testing different skillsets.
One of the prime examples is Dong Sik Yoon. The guy is a judoka who had beaten a good lot of gold medalist judo practicioners in non-Olympic bouts. He was a guy who was basically a king in Judo for quite some time. Once the MMA powers got a hold of him, they made matchups that basically pushed Judo vs. Submission grapplers and Power punchers. They basically threw the guy to the wolves in his first fight in MMA against Kazushi Sakuraba.
Of course, there are probably some better examples.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Feb 10, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Pawel Nastula is another good example.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 10, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I am mildly curious to see Ishii in MMA,
but given other judo guys making the transition it does not make me overly optimistic about his chances unless he gets really deep into BJJ & striking.
My understanding is that he’s already like a purple or brown belt in jiu jitsu. Not to mention he’s 22 years old.
I think he’s champion material.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Oh really? I didn't know that.
Well that peaks my interest more then. Thanks for the info because I was about ready to dump him into Karo’s category.
Really, he has all the right qualities from what I’ve seen. Karo, for all his talent, has never shown a true drive or will to be the best and do what he needs to in order to get there. What did he ever accomplish in judo that required more than just incredible talent? He was always riding off his physical gifts, from what I’ve seen.
I don’t think MMA has ever had an elite, talented, highly proven judoka enter the sport early on in his career. The closest is Akiyama, and I hear that guy isn’t bad at all.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
He’s obviously a great judoka, and may have the BJJ, but where is his striking? Early reports say it’s rather ugly and ineffective, so I imagine that’s going to be something he works on quite a bit in the future.
Either way, I hope to see him fight in the UFC, and do think he has all the potential in the world.
We’ll see…
Yeah, his striking will take a lot of work. But the key point is that the guy obviously is extremely talented AND has the will to do what he has to in order to improve his game.
The fact that he’s going to work with ATT tells me all I need to know about where his drive is.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I have read he does not enjoy being punched in the face, at all.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
They were also saying that about Lesnar.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
I am sure that most people
do not truly enjoy getting punched in the face, although for some it seems to get them into the fight. I thought the whole point of fighting was to avoid punishment period? lol
I honestly don’t think it would be unfair to say that many mixed martial artists don’t mind and/or like getting punched in the face.
Not personally I mean,
just judo guys translating to MMA was what I meant. But after reading posts above Ishii is a purple belt in BJJ or something so at least he is attempting to be well rounded.
Wasn't Karo like
20 when he entered MMA? These guys are very similar in their talent sets. Both the highest judokas & young. The only thing we cannot compare is Ishii’s willingness to learn other aspects of MMA that he would need to compete, which Karo never would.
I understand what youre saying but the difference between competing in the judo trails for your country and winning a gold medal is a pretty large gap.
I think the gold medal alone proves this guy has amazing drive.
Both the highest judokas & young.
Woah, hold on there. Karo has undeniable talent, but the issue with him has always been his willingness to expand his game and do what it takes to win. The furthest Karo ever got is the Olympic trials. Ishii actually got a gold medal, which is an entirely different ball of wax.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
I was not implying accomplishments between the two being equal,
but his judo skill level has always been reverred as one of the best in the world. I mean all that we ever heard was how at 14 he was beating 25 year old judokas.
But thats largely a function of talent; Karo has always been insanely talented. But his ten-cent head is the issue. Its much like in baseball: pitchers who have arms to carry them to triple-A are a dime a dozen. But the guys who actually turn those arms into superstar careers are very rare. In a way, having that much talent works against a baseball player’s career, or in this way a fighter’s career. They don’t learn early on how to dedicate themselves to getting better.
However, any gold medalist in a sport has to both be very talented AND very dedicated to improving themselves. Karo doesn’t seem to qualify. Ishii does. And he’s young enough to still have the hunger, which older transitioners usually don’t have.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
I hear you,
and agree. Still a wait and see as far as his willingness to learn other disciplines enough to be a real threat in MMA.
BJ Penn is another good example. His natural talent have led him to believe he’s basically invincible if he improves his cardio. In that limiting belief he’s been badly surpassed by many other fighters in terms of sheer training and willingness to develop.
Ishii isn’t training with Yoshida, or even Okami. He’s heading over to ATT to train.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
You didn't just compare
An American Judoka who isn’t even an Olympian to a Japanese Judoka that is an Olympic gold medalist. Neil ohlenkamp himself told me that if an american would like to compete seriously he would have to train overseas to reach true contender status. He also said Japan the best place to train.
American judo is not held in high esteem internationally. In places like Japan and Korea people train in judo with the best in the world day in and day out for a living.
Karo has good judo, but he’s far from an international competitor. And def not Olympic Gold medalist caliber.
Not at all,
I just mean in terms of judo hype coming in for these guys. By all accounts Ishii seems like much more of an accomplished judoka than Karo. My point was simply that judo has not really translated to real MMA success for anyone who relies too much on it withou learning other important aspects of MMA like striking & BJJ. And I read that Ishii is a purple belt or something in BJJ so maybe he is taking it seriously.
point taken
As a judo guy, I think the more you see people cross training the more it will translate. I have been training with greco guys, and their grips and my sweeps have been paying off in dividends. judo is effective, no one has taken the time to cross train and adapt it properly… and you can count karo because he’s a slack ass!
Right,
I think that judo would be a very effective addition to an MMA fighters arsenal if it used with the other needed skillsets of a true MMA fighter. I just wonder about how much we are counting on pure potential until we determine if he can really pick the other parts. Thanks for the good judo info though. I did not about most of that, but it is very interesting and cool to hear about its application in MMA.
rewatch
karo and dong hyun kim and watch kims foot sweeps…
judo is like bjj in that everyone has their specialty… in bjj you have guys who catch armbars, guys who are good w triangles (ryan hall)…
in judo this would be your tokui waza. Your “best move”.
judo is all about throw set ups… like I’m no black belt, but I use alot of sweeps to either score my takedown or set up my favorite throw (harai goshi). So if you look, kim has some effective sweeps. imagine the possibilities, a quick jab straight combination, then a sweep while your opponent goes to counter. Like what hiromitsu miura did to Carlos Condit. Wit strong sweeps guys with dangerous hands and takedown abilities can be nuetralized… i can shoot you a video of my no gi training at my mma school next time I’m there so you can see what I’m going for.
Judo in MMA just isn’t that effective unless you can finish from where Judo brings you position-wise. Karo isn’t exactly a submission master, so he usually relies on Judo to give him position in top control to pound opponents.
The key to using Judo is the transition game. Dong Sik Yoon has a perfect transition to the armbar from hip throws, but he also has a submission game. Akiyama has some very aggressive throws, but he usually uses his power. Ishii will have to decide what type of fighter he’s going to be in that regard. Preferably, it’d be better to have both skills.
If Ishii can truly become a top controlling submission guy, he has a great chance at being a monster in the Heavyweight division. Using his judo to gain position should be relatively easier for him than most heavyweights, but it’s what he does after the transition that will be monitored by fans.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Feb 10, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
actually....
Hidehiko Yoshida was a gold medal judoka. :) And was 50/50 in MMA.
Well if he wouldn’t have injured Koga, they wouldn’t need to throw him to the wolves, now would they. ;-)
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 10, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
this is why Dana thinks Ishii should sign with the UFC
Yoshida never really got a full mma training….he just got thrown in at the deep end…
Dana doesn't sound like such teh bad boss there
Ishii, if you were unsure, you shouldn’t have signed the damn thing. Now, you should live up to your end of the agreement, be smart and eschew the Japanese MMA scene (which pretty much runs on the ground-up bones and elevated testosterone levels of its competitors)
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 3:38 PM EST reply actions
I wouldn’t be fooled by Dana here: this is the other end of the promoter spectrum, but its still promoter talk. He still needs to lure Ishii in, and he can’t do that with a stick the way he could with Fitch.
Although I agree with him. Ishii is best off in the UFC, long run. If he really has the talent and the will do win.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
It’s make sense but Dana just cut Christian Wellisch and Eddie Sanchez. What D league talent is Dana going to feed him?
Neil Grove please.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Feb 10, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Neil Wain.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 10, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Japanese MMA is a circus not only because of the promoters but also because their main revenue source is via “network” TV.
Everyone keeps harping that MMA needs to be on CBS or Fox, but what they don’t understand is that will only potentially lead to the sport becoming a circus.
There is so much pressure regarding ratings when you’re talking about network TV and that pressure often times leads to sacrificing the integrity of the sport.
To expand on the pressure point, ratings draws on TV are a lot different than PPV draws. Ratings draws on TV need to be somewhat interesting to a wide variety of people. Freak shows, in other words.
Freak shows don’t work on PPVs because the people who are willing to turn on a TV to watch Kimbo fight Sapp aren’t going to pay $40 or even $20 to see it.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
exactly… its the trying to be all things to all people syndrome.
Network TV forces you to attract MASS – shotgun approach whereas PPV is a rifle shot.
I don’t even know if Strikeforce has (or wants) a CBS deal. Nobody has mentioned anything about CBS shows, and the fact that they’re offering Gina and Kimbo Showtime slots makes me think there’s no deal. I honestly think that’s a good thing.
by Michael Rome on Feb 10, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
I honestly think that’s a good thing.
I said as much a few days ago. Network TV is fools gold, especially with those CBS idiots.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, that makes sense. Honestly, what is the need for a CBS show for them? If they build something good on Showtime, a deal that pays a lot better, I don’t see a reason to go to CBS before they have enough stars.
by Michael Rome on Feb 10, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Network ratings and PPV buy figures aren’t that different. That is why UFC has already pushed its competitive integrity with a farce of a “heavyweight tournament” where the two finalists weren’t even top contenders to begin with.
Gotta go with mmalogic on this one. Nog and Couture are universally respected and regarded as high level competition. And I know: Randy’s old, Nog was sick, etc. etc… But all the same, they didn’t lose split decisions to clearly inferior competition. Randy and Nog got THRASHED – Randy by a guy whose athletic ability alone is enough to make him a threat and which has been complimented by training very seriously, and Nog by a guy who is a legit heavyweight who looked faster, stronger, more focused and more motivated than ever before. Is it not possible that these guys just improved that much?
I don’t think there’s a real shot at the UFC’s “integrity” here. That sure does happen in a lot of instances, but this ain’t one of them.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Feb 10, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ishii didn't sign a fight contract
According to the latest reports. He agreed to a term of exclusive negotiations, and when they drew up a fight contract, he said “let me think about it”, which should be taken to mean he is going to go show it to DREAM and Sengoku. As far as I know, the only obligation he has to UFC is that he can’t sign with another promotion until the term of the exclusive negotiations ends. I’m not sure when that is… mmalogic might know.
The idea that UFC is the only good option for Ishii is kind of silly. They’re not going to pay him what he wants just to be a complimentary star on their American/UK shows. If they get Ishii, they’re doing it because they want to push into Japan on their terms, and that has disaster written all over it. UFC has no loyal audience there, their Jap “TV” deal is a complete joke because it airs on a pay service that nobody has, and they’re agressively stepping on the toes of the top promoter in Japan, who could probably make running in Japan very difficult for them, much like UFC undermined Affliction’s Vegas efforts.
I see Ishii continuing to train until his exclusive negotiation window ends. He will make statements that keep him in the Japanese press until then, and then probably take DREAM’s best offer.
Since when is Dana White doing interviews with MMA Weekly?
I thought they were on the shitlist with Sherdog.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Feb 10, 2009 6:21 PM EST reply actions
good catch
my bad, MMA Weekly is reporting Dana’s comments from the post UFC 94 press conference.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
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