Werdum Wants Fedor and Arlovski, Bashes Lesnar and UFC
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 2:30 PM EST
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Fighters Only Magazine interviews Fabricio Werdum:
Fabricio Werdum says his dream schedule for the near future would be a rematch with Andrei Arlovski followed by a fight with Fedor Emelianenko.
...He added that Fedor "is the best in the world" and criticized the UFC for giving Brock Lesnar a title shot so early in his career.
"This thing of saying that Lesnar is the best in the world doesn’t exist, I’m against that," he snapped. "The guy has four fights and is already the world champion? Everybody knows that Fedor is the best.
"In heavyweights, I think the best are in Affliction. Apart from Minotauro, the rest in the UFC are weak. The UFC has what it wanted, two Americans to fight the "final". The marketing is the most important thing, they are good at it. Frank Mir also, this final among them is not real."
It looks like Werdum in Affliction is pretty much a guarantee. In the past few weeks, Affliction and Strikeforce are making huge statements, and that is that they believe that they can co-exist with the UFC. When Coker was asked if MMA was being oversaturated and whether multiple MMA organizations could co-exist, he stated that there is enough room for 3 big promotions. At this point, it looks like the UFC, Affliction, and Strikeforce will be going head to head from this point forward, although Strikeforce in a non-confrontational manner, which is a good idea.
The real winner this year will be the fans, who will get spoiled with the all the events these 3 companies will be putting for its fans. Not to be overshadowed is HDNet, who will provide its North American audience with non stop Japanese MMA and K-1 action throughout the year.
Oh, how great it is to be an MMA fan.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Doesn’t sound like bashing. Sounds like some truth mixed with some nationalism and sour grapes. Did he not watch Big Nog get handled?
The last thing we need is a Werdum/AA rematch. The first one was awful. He should be the one to fight Fedor. JB looked really bad in his fight getting nearly outstruck while he was mounted on Yvel.
Well...
I’d say Barnett looked better being in the mount getting hit a few times than Werdum did when he went to sleep
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 12, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
Its obvious UFC didn’t have big plans for Werdum considering how many times they passed him up for a title shot. However, he shouldn’t be taking shots at Brock and Frank because it’s not their fault.
Maybe Werdum to Affliction, but I don’t see him fighting Arlovski . . . he might get Fedor or Barnett right away if they continue to insist they don’t want to fight each other. He was be served well in Strikeforce where he could probably take over as champion.
The man speaks the truth though, and is obviously siding with Affliction.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
My ass hurt too
The last time I got fired. Big deal…
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
He got fired? He didn’t accept a paycut.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
I've gotta agree...
if you’re told “take a paycut or you’re gone” and you chose to not take a paycut…that is more or less getting fired
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 12, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
A very gray area. One could argue, that you would quit if your boss ever wanted you to take a 50% pay cut. Who wouldn’t?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 12, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
True, but not if you have other employers that are willing to hire you.
If you don’t have any options, than yeah, I guess working for peanuts is better than nothing.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 12, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
LOL, the truth?
He got his ass handed to him by a journeyman…
He says Mir is nothing but then says Nog is part of the “best”…
Mir just totally killed Nog…
The best heavyweights are in the UFC.
THE single best heavyweight is not in the UFC.
Barnett wouldnt last in the UFC… Sylvia couldnt do it in the UFC, arlovski couldnt do it in the UFC and Werdum couldn’t cut it in the UFC.
The only guy who hasnt tested UFC waters is Fedor.
LOL!
Your statements have UFC propoganda written all over them.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Is that like propaganda? He admitted the #1 guy isn’t in the UFC, and everything else he said is true.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
How can that be true when he wrote the best HWs are in the UFC?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Or the top ranked HWs for that matter.
He left that part out.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
who’s the top ranked heavyweights?
if you polled the casual MMA fan which numbers in the hundreds of thousands they would say Brock Lesnar… would that make it true? hell no.
Same way these little fanboys spending 10 bucks, putting up a blog and then posting their “rankings” doesn’t make it true.
The best heavyweights and the best heavyweight division is in the UFC PERIOD.
Affliction has Fedor… that’s it.
LOL. Are you on the UFC’s clock right now?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
That pitch fork is mighty pointy
Might want to keep your pants on…
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, how can guys like Andrei Arlovski and Josh Barnett compare to UFC titans like Neil Wain and Denis Stojnic?
I hope they pay you by the post, trying to pass off bullshit like this is not a simple task.
so buantello, rizzo, nelson, rothwell is what makes for the best HW’s?
Affliction has Fedor…
Arlovski had 2 title shots in the UFC and couldnt do it, his best win so far in his career being against sylvia which he then lost twice to… Couture, Nog and Mir beat sylvia… and Barnett can’t pick his nose without drugs.
But ill give affliction Fedor, Arlovski, Barnett and sylvia… (even though sylvia is a “free agent”)
UFC has: Couture, Nog, Mir, Brock, Cain, Carwin, Gonzaga, Kongo, Herring.
second tier: dos santos, hardonk, Pat Barry, etc…
Lets use some common sense when deciding who has the best HW division.
I’m not that interesting in a pissing match over the HWs, especially when you’re obviously schilling for the UFC side of things, but to entertain your flimsy argument:
Afflcition has the true champion of the world, the 2nd and 3rd ranked guys, and another top 10 fighter in Werdum, who stopped Gonzaga twice. Their second tier of Buentello, Rothwell, Nelson and Yvel compares just fine with the UFC’s.
UFC has more HWs. I will concede that. But Affliction has the true champ and 3-4 legitimate contenders. They win.
You can’t actually consider Josh Barnett the #2 heavyweight in the world. Or Arlovski, after losing to Fedor, beating Rothwell and JOB after losing twice to Sylvia, as #3.
You just can’t. I know you don’t like mmalogic, but you cannot believe these things.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
I will say this...
If it isn’t Barnett or Arlovski, who is it? I think it’s pretty murky..
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Its murky as hell. I think the HW division can’t be properly numerated right now. Its more like tiers:
- Fedor
#2-7 (no order)
Lesnar
Mir
Arlovski
Barnett
Couture
Nogueira
then beyond.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
I would personally include Overeem in that conversation. But that’s pretty accurate.
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
They don’t have Werdum.
I find the divisions somehow comparable, but the lack of depth and a good mid-level pool of talent really limits Affliction. If they do sign Werdum and maybe bring in an Antonio Silva or Overeem, I’ll concede.
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I’m shilling for the UFC… but you shill for anything against the UFC.
So werdum is now signed? or do you like just talking out of your ass.
The argument is moot.
Affliction wouldnt even guarantee a third show when asked – so you’re talking about a phantom division.
Yeah, if we’re going to jump to conclusions, add Overeem and Schilt to the UFC’s roster.
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
They’re committed to FEG. Adding Werdum to the conversation is a bit presumptuous, but unlike them, he is a free agent, and he has stated explicitly that he is likely to sign with Affliction (and Sengoku)
None of them count
For different reasons. Let’s keep grounded until word of Werdum’s signing emerges.
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
Didn’t Werdum announce he was going to Affliction this fall only to have them say he was asking for too much? For that matter, didn’t Tito Ortiz announce that Affliction was giving him a ‘record breaking contract’ only for us to find out that Affliction couldn’t afford it?
Didn’t it take Werdum over a month to realize he’d been cut from the UFC?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 10, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
You know I love you, but come the fuck on, Logic. You’re just aping Dana’s more lousy talking points.
by Luke Thomas on Feb 10, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
“Same way these little fanboys spending 10 bucks, putting up a blog and then posting their "rankings" doesn’t make it true.”
Actually, I’ll take a step back. Are you actually referring to nothing sites who just randomly rank fighters or is this a veiled swipe at new media? Because if its the latter, wait until you and the UFC get a load of the announcement BE is about to make :)
by Luke Thomas on Feb 10, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
My Interest = Piqued
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 10, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
lol, yeah mostly the nothing media… basically who ever had arlovski as #2 or has barnett as number #2 or even #3.
BE is the best site on MMA, there are many disagreements but mostly they are thoughtful ones and high level which is what makes it so engaging.
It’s due time BE gets some for the good work that’s done here… looking forward to the announcement.
Just make sure you get some tips from m-1 global and affliction if you’re thinking about putting on a press conference.
by mmalogic on Feb 10, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Virtually every MMA site with editor-controlled rankings has Fedor, Arlovski and Barnett at one, two and three.
Fedor, Barnett and Arlovski are 1, 2, & 3 in the metas this month, iirc.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
And Mir is #4.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
Twenty bucks says Lesnar isn’t even #5,
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 11, 2009 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
Because......
There’s a 10 fight minimum for being good at fighting. Well done..
by Charles Awad on Feb 11, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
You win.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I like the meta philosophy… I just dont agree with this at all.
arlovski’s best win was sylvia which he then lost twice to…
He has yet to beat anyone equal to or better than sylvia.
That win was 3 years ago making it the highlight of his career… and since he subsequently lost to him twice after its even questionable to count it.
It makes no sense that he is ranked number 2 today…
I don’t always agree with the results either. This is one of those times. I think the most “accurate” rankings are at Fight Matrix.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Yeh more on this please?
Somebody help me make this green??
By any objective definition, they have half of the top ten while Affliction has the other half – and a bunch of the UFC guys (Carwin, dos Santos, Velasquez) are super new and getting better day by day. The future of the Division resides in the UFC.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Future is not guaranteed, and present is all that it matters.
Not to mentiont that the UFC has the Lower half, and not the top.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
That’s if you shaft Lesnar for being green, job Nog for losing to Mir and give Mir no credit whatsoever for mowing over Nog and having a win over Timmay.
Which I’m sure you do.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Future is not guaranteed, and present is all that it matters.
It is thoughts like those that make the UFC the only profitable MMA organization right now…
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Feb 10, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
Rec’d with a bullet.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 10, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
LOL! You guys are hillarious.
What does that have to do with our argument? Are we discussing who will have the best HWs in the future? No. Do we base the best HW class based on potential or actual achievements?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
I rate them on who would more likely win in a fight.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
And that would be any fighter in the UFC over a fighter outside of the UFC, correct?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
Damn straight, Kendall Grove would maul Fedro.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Feb 10, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec’d for “Fedro.”
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 10, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
its Fedor, then the top UFC heavyweights (3 or 4 of them along with a few prospects that might fit here, but are unproven), then the HW that the UFC cut, then Barnet
But didn’t you hear WAMMA sez Barnett is numbah too?
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Barnett is the “consensus” #2 at the moment. I disagree with the consensus, but that’s what it is at the moment.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 10, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
The concensus is a lot more understandable when you look at it in terms of “Fedor is one, everybody else has huge questions, at least Barnett hasn’t lost for a while.”
Which is basically what it is. Barnett is at the top by virtue of not fighting anybody interesting. Kind of like how Lindland maintained a top ten ranking by beating nobodies until Vitor crushed him.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 11, 2009 4:46 AM EST up reply actions
yeah 250 lb wrestlers never last in the UFC.
buddy, you are aware Barnett is a former UFC champ?
i mean what are you talking about? Sylvia and Arlovski basically shared the UFC title for 2 years.
you love the UFC, we get it.
by Headkick on Feb 10, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
BARNETT IS NOT A FORMER CHAMP
He won that belt on roids. He never won a title fight in the UFC without testing positive for cheating right afterwards.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Come on mmalogic, you can do better than regurgitating the same old Dana White boilerplate about Fedor. Stuff like “Barnett wouldn’t last in the UFC” is just uninspired and laughable. Pick up your game a bit.
Does Dana say he’s the best heavyweight in the world? logic does.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
I meant more the laughable idea that he has to fight under a certain brand name to be legitimized. mmalogic is agressively pushing that exact DW talking point.
I just want him there to see what he does against Lesnar and all the up and coming young talent. If he retires at 33-34 (after beating Barnett, Overeem, maybe Kharitonov), it’ll be hard to say he’s not the best – but smoogy, won’t you always wonder if he could’ve come to the UFC and won the most prestigious belt in the sport?
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
At heavyweight, the most prestigious belt is whatever one Fedor is wearing. It was PRIDE, now it is WAMMA. Yeah, it sucks to think anything WAMMA does is legitimate, but their HW champ is the true champion of the world.
I would like to see Fedor fight the UFC’s top challenger, sure, but personally I think it should have to be in a ring. That is where Fedor has made his name.
Anyway, at least your motives are pure. You just want to see the guy fight the best the UFC can offer. I can’t say the same about mmalogic.
I just don’t think WAMMA giving Fedor a belt (while pretty much refusing to hand any more out in WW, MW or LHW because it would be so laughable to give those to a non UFC fighter) gives WAMMA prestige. More that Fedor is good enough that he pretty much generated a belt where none existed.
I like my MMA in a cage.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
the most prestigious belt is whatever one Fedor is wearing. It was PRIDE, now it is WAMMA. Yeah, it sucks to think anything WAMMA does is legitimate, but their HW champ is the true champion of the world.
Thats silly. If I make up a belt and give it to Fedor, is my belt the most prestigious in the world?
Fedor’s prestige belongs to Fedor. The WAMMA belt is just a trinket.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Simple test. Fedor, Lesnar, and Mir all decide to retire to an island and play Swiss Family Robinson with their families. WAMMA and UFC HW belts are empty. Which belt is most desired by fighters?
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure, if all that magically happens the UFC belt is currently the most prestigious. But that hasn’t happened, so as of right now it’s a promotional belt that doesn’t mean shit.
Ok. So nothing in the world has prestige unless it belongs to the one best person in the world.
Fucking stupid, but ok.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
You’re right, I’m being overly harsh here. The UFC HW belt has some measure of prestige, in that it’s the most important promotional belt out there. But everybody who knows anything about MMA knows Fedor is the undisputed HW champ, so until he gets beat, retires or takes the UFC title it’s not going to have the prestige their other titles have. Does that make more sense?
Of course, the UFC HW belt isn’t as prestigious as their other belts, with the exception of maybe the LW belt. It goes something like LHW>WW>MW>HW>LW.
But the WAMMA belt is still just a trinket, which shines in Fedor’s prestige. Its like saying Fedor’s ugly sweater has prestige, or Fedor’s mickey mouse ears. Fedor has the prestige there.
Also, read my comment below about how Fedor isn’t necessarily #1 until he loses or retires. There just needs to come along a fighter who surpasses Fedor’s credentials. Very difficult, but not impossible.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
The public believes The UFC heavyweight champion is the best HW… thats what makes it the most prestigious.
End of discussion.
You just noticing that? Thing is stupid or not they are also the target audience for the sport and the ones who keep it going.
by who me on Feb 10, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not just noticing that. I’m pointing it out to mmalogic because he doesn’t seem to have noticed it.
what you think you’re pointing out is meaningless…
It doesnt change anything I said and your argument is still wrong.
The hardcore fan base understand Fedor is the best heavyweight today… does that make his belt THE MOST prestigious?
NO
The general fan base in the Millions think the UFC champ is the best in the world…
Does that make the UFC belt THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS?
YES.
How does people being dumb change that fact?
LOL their is a difference between a UFC fan and MMA fan. MMA fans know that Fedor is the best, UFC fans don’t (although I have seen many Fedor shirts in UFC events).
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
The difference is that us internet obsessed hardcore MMA fans are such a small fraction of the target audience that we are all but irrelevant. Casual fans think “Edor” is that guy from those odd commercials during the last EliteXC show, his super special documentary on FSN didn’t even draw enough viewers to register a Nielson rating at all.
You can get all high and mighty about how smart you are for being some kind of “MMA fan” but in the big picture no one in the industry cares about any of our opinions.
by who me on Feb 10, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In North America. I don’t think you can say that in Japan.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
That’s obviously true, but it doesn’t make the perceived notion that Lesnar is better than Fedor, no matter how much you try to differentiate the difference between reality and what matters.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
No one is saying Lesnar is better than Fedor.
They are saying that the UFC belt is more prestigious than the WAMMA belt.
Fedor is better than Lesnar. The UFC belt is more prestigious than the WAMMA belt. I don’t see how any reasonable person could disagree with either of those statements.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
That's the point, I think
No one here is claiming to be reasonable.
by Charles Awad on Feb 11, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yep. When you get right down to it Kimbo makes $200k a fight and was in two of the most watched MMA matches ever in the US, Fedor cost ten times as much and isn’t even well known in his own country more/less here. MMA isn’t just a sport it’s a Professional Sport and the object of professional sports is to make money off of it, in that sense Kimbo Slice is a much more important figure than Fedor. Of course none of them have drawn the eyeballs that Bob Sapp has drawn in Japan. By comparison Werdum doesn’t draw in the US or in Japan (or in his home country for that matter), he is very good but that is only part of the formula for being a MMA star.
Without the general public buying into the sport it would all but cease to exist, their importance should never be underestimated. Hardcore MMA fans (and particularly hardcore internet MMA fans) are a very small part of the audience for the sport, what we think it pretty irrelevant in a lot of ways.
MMA is evolving faster in the UFC than anywhere else.
Its like a tech company based outside of silicon valley… its much easier to become obsolete.
Why even pollute the comments section with stupid talking points like that? That analogy makes no sense at all.
Fedor is the undisputed greatest heavyweight in the world. Maybe some day UFC will put the best guy they can find against him, but the onus is on them to mount a challenge to his title.
The idea you and Dana are pushing, that Fedor would have to come to the UFC and challenge their best to be validated, is utterly laughable. You’ve got it completely backwards. For the UFC HW title to be valid at all, they would have to have their “champion” challenge the real #1 guy, Fedor.
For the UFC HW title to be valid at all, they would have to have their "champion" challenge the real #1 guy, Fedor.
I disagree with that, but I agree with your overall premise. Sylvia, Arlovski, and Barnett are still top level fighters, inside or out of the UFC.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe “valid at all” is a bit strong. But the UFC HW title is a promotional belt, not a true world championship. Kind of like with Lawler and the EliteXC belt; Anderson Silva is the true world champion, but Robbie is indeed a top ranked, elite contender in the division.
I largely ignore the whole notion of “promotional belt.” Anderson Silva is indeed the true world champion, not because of the belt he wears, but because he’s the champion of the top division and his results are superior to all competitors for the title.
In the same fashion, if somebody like Velasquez in the UFC rises up to take the belt, he does not need to beat Fedor to be the true world champion. He simply needs to have a superior record against top competition over the recent stretch of time.
Obviously, Fedor will make that hard if he keeps fighting guys like Barnett, Arlovski, and Sylvia. But that isn’t guaranteed.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
when did I say Fedor had to come to the UFC to validate he is the best heavyweight in the world today?
Please learn to read.
Fedor right now has the best case for being the best heavyweight in the world.
Will he maintain the best case for being the top HW without coming to the UFC … I doubt it.
Fedor has the best case?
Correction, he IS the best in the world. Its not even an argument.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor is still a pretty much unknown in the US, hell he is pretty much unknown in Russia. Hard to convince people you are the best in the world when no one knows who you are. Junie Browning gets mugged for autographs on the street and the best fighter in the world is someone the vast majority of people who watch MMA even know who is.
That’s totally not how that goes.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 10, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
In both cases, you can return to verify.
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Nicely done, Blackout.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Feb 11, 2009 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
Solid.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
He’s obviously siding with Affliction. But he’s just being butthurt with his accusations about the UFC HW Division (its similar quality to Affliction’s, maybe a little better) and with his irritation about Mir and Lesnar (they just beat Nogueira and Couture, Werdum lost to Dos Santos).
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Affliction does have the best HWs and the best HW in the world, so, its not like hes lying.
They would only get that much deeper if they add Werdum.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
It has the single best HW in the world, no question. But the talent below there favors the UFC pretty heavily, right now. Couture/Lesnar/Mir/Gonzaga/Nogueira/Carwin/Velasquez/Dos Santos/Kongo/Hardonk >>> Barnett/Arlovski/Sylvia/Nelson/Rothwell/Rizzo/Buentello.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Lesnar and Nog are just about done.
Others are still rookies and very unproven.
Also, add Werdum to Affliction’s HW stable.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
correction Randy and Nog are just about done.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Meh. Seriously, super meh. I’ll take Velasquez/Carwin/Dos Santos/Kongo/Hardonk, as a group, 99 times out of a hundred over the likes of Nelson/Rothwell/Rizzo/Buentello.
Overall, the UFC’s group is vastly more talented. Affliction is top-heavy with guys whose careers have already peaked and are moving down.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
How is Dos Santos, Kongo, or Hardonk proven in any way?
Even Valesquez and Carwin for that matter?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Proven is unrelated to quality. It merely proves quality.
I can look at them and see the talent. You don’t. Time will prove me right.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Hardonk’s won three straight, Kongo is like 6-2 and dos Santos K’d your precious (unsigned) Werdum TFO. Velasquez or Carwin would absolutely maul all but the top three HW not in the UFC right now.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
So, he is no better than Soko or Houston hype at this point.
Not proven, and not by a long shot. He could lose his next fight and no one would speak of him again.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
I consider Dos Santos the biggest wild card out of that bunch, and even he has a much bigger win under his belt than Buentello, Rothwell, Nelson, or Rizzo over the past 5 or so years.
Arlovski, Barnett, and Fedor are the only fighters who have proven much of anything over the past few years.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
so you’re adding werdum to afflictions stable when he’s not even signed to make your case? This is kind of pathetic…
The whole point of the article is that it makes it very likely that he is going to Affliction. Last I heard from Atencio and Werdum, it is pretty much happening for their next event.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
I do agree with Werdum on some points
Overall, I feel, like Werdum, that the UFC Heavyweight Division is weak with the exception of a few fighters. His criticisms of Lesnar seem more like sour grapes, but he does have a point. I’ll get a lot of flack for this, but I honestly feel that beating Herring and Couture (which is a great win no doubt) on the downward slope of Randy’s career made Lesnar seem better than he really is. Also, having a title belt makes Lesnar seem better than he really is in the eyes of many fans. However, I will say that if Lesnar continues to win, then he will easily prove me wrong. Werdum was not smart to come into his fight with dos Santos out of shape. Werdum would do well in Affliction if he doesn’t make that mistake again.
Werdum has always done well, no matter where he is at, and is very young.
He has also improved greatly the past few years to become one of the best rounded HWs in MMA.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
I am very impressed with his head movement and defensive boxing.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
So am I.
The easiest thing to learn in MMA is hand-strikes (boxing, that is). Hands down, it’s the quickest to pick up, incorporate, and implement to a competitive level. Head movement and defense, involving footwork and general athletic composure, are far more important than the technical components of learning to throw a high-low-high combo, or timing a counter-hook. Those things are learned exclusively via repetition.
Verdum has some great potential. He’ll never be the best in the world, with guys like Brock, Carwin, and Cain around…they’re just too big, and the odds are that at least one of them brings their overall game up to a level that they will be able to continue dominating physically for years to come. But I’ve liked Verdum for a long time. That won’t change just because he’s out of the best promotion in the world.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Werdum is not a small guy at all, he is 6’4 245.
Cain Valasquez is 6’2 245.
Shane Carwin is 6’4 255.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think Carwin and Lesnar are just too big; Velasquez is just too talented.
FWIW, while Werdum came in at 255 or so his last fight, his optimal fighting weight looks to be around 240.
Carwin came into his last fight cutting to 265. He weighed 252 for his fight against Wellisch which baffled me and made me suspect steroids when he came back at 264 for Wain, but the UFC apparently either didn’t test him or he tested clean.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 11, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Ha, that is interesting.
Well, MLB is saying that the steroid testers tip off certain people of when they will do testing, etc, so I expect a HUGE reform in steroid and substance testing soon.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
after waht dos Santos did to Werdum… why in the world would he want the harder hitting Fedor. Decapitation R1
Werdum is bitter bitter bitter. Bitterness is not a good thing. Bitterness over Lesnar getting a title shot over him led to him fighting Dos Santos. Bitterness lead to him coming in fat. And bitterness lead to him getting KTFO.
Did the UFC want lesnar vs mir? probably… but isn’t like Lesnar eeked past Couture and Mir eeked past Nog… they both finished the fight and finished it decisively.
The thing is, Werdum was never in that 4 man tournament, so no matter what happened against Dos Santos, he was already felt slighted by the UFC (many fans claimed the same, just like Machida and Okami to some degree).
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
The order of slights goes Okami, Machida, and then some degree behind is Werdum. Okami beat the champ, machida finished a guy that drew the current champ, Werdum got KOed by some prospect. I think it is clear.
He was slighted before he even fought Santos, so, your logic is not right there.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
He was not exactly setting the world on fire before he went to the UFC and he lost his debut. Beat a guy who had just got trounced in a title fight, then fought vera because the UFC wanted vera to move down. He won two fights and now he is slighted for a title shot? Getting beat by Santos was icing on the cake on why he didn’t deserve a title shot.
He actually was. That is why the UFC signed him.
One of the best HW prospects.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
LOL!
So he is done now right?
Hang it up like how Anderson Silva didn’t pan out in PRIDE.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, a guy like Verdum would do much better in a ring,
compared to a cage. So it’s kind of a reverse of the A. Silva example.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Actually, Silva would do better in a Ring than in a Cage. The way to beat him is to smother him and pin him against the cage. Ring favors strikers a bit more.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Seems everyone knows how to beat Anderson Silva these days.
by Charles Awad on Feb 11, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There’s a pretty good chance you wrote that in the wrong tense.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How’s that working out for them lately?
:)
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 11, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty good. They still have a W versus Silva on their record, so, Im sure they’re okay.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Just like Okami and Machida?
He was told after the Gonzaga fight he would get a title shot as well.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
i think you are just making shit up now
who gets a title shot when on a 1 fight win streak not named lesnar???
Werdum beat Gonzaga and Vera at that point.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
no you are wrong
AA- Loss
Gonzaga- Win (ufc 80)
THEN
Vera- Win (ufc 85)
what you said was “he was told AFTER THE GONZAGA FIGHT he would get a title shot as well”
so, after the gonzaga fight is before the vera fight. Therefore, he was on a one fight winning streak.
And let’s not forget that RANDY PICKED BROCK FOR HIS COMEBACK FIGHT. He could’ve had Nog (or Werdum), but he chose the payday.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, I meant Vera fight.
That is still a 2 fight winning streak and doesn’t change the point I was making.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
So today is the day he finally figured out he wasn’t in the UFC anymore?
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
by BJJDenver on Feb 10, 2009 3:17 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
that is false. both of those fights were fine for the viewing public. Arlovski/Werdum was like dancing with the relativly unknown mixed martail artists.
You just don’t appreciate Arlovski’s strategy for the fight. It was the same as Bisping’s against Leben’s and KenFlo’s against Huerta . . . just keep the opponent on the outside and there is no way you could lose.
He was winning the round until he fucked up, I’ll give you that
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, it was. Arlovski/Werdum was terribly boring. Neither of the other two fights you mentioned were.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 10, 2009 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
He’s right, it really wasnt that terrible of a fight. The first round was very good. The second and third rounds were just more conservative. I think the viewpoint is swayed alot by Dana White saying how terrible Arlovski looked because Arlovski was becoming trouble in contract negotiations.
Also compared to Gonzaga vs. Cro Cop that night it looked a helluva lot worse than it is.
I managed not to enjoy it while watching it live without the aid of White’s commentary.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 10, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Arlovski/Werdum II would be a great fight, and both have shown considerable improvement since.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Ring would play a huge role as well.
You can’t circle forever in a ring, you would get cornered eventually.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Do you like your MMA more in a cage or a ring? I think the cage is much, much better.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Ring creates some exciting fights, and prevents fighters from circling and running.
Cage is better for ground and clinching fighters who like to pin their fighters (but not many people consider Coutures or Veras clinching and pinning style very exciting).
Both have pros and cons, but the RING is definitely better to watch LIVE when attending the event.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
The ring props up BJJ fighters, while limiting wrestlers and their ability to constantly grind their opponent into the mat.
The cage neutralizes BJJ fighters while allowing wrestlers to grind their opponents against the cage, both in the takedown and grounded positions.
The ring allows for fighters to lay on the ropes, and while this is defensive in the striking game, it creates opportunities for (nearly meaningless) takedowns due to the overexposed legs and hips. I say ‘nearly meaningless’ takedowns because all a fighter has to do is let enough of his body slip under the ropes, and then the fight gets restarted center-ring.
The cage allows for pretty brutal clinch-work, Muay Thai or otherwise, and also provides for some takedown defense. There are no restarted positions, unless a foul has occurred, like an illegal strike or stalling. So positional control is actually an attainable goal, with very real rewards coming as victorious rounds on the scorecards. This type of control is incredibly difficult to achieve in a ring, but not impossible. Generally the talent disparity has to be pretty high for the top fighter to maintain dominant position for a whole round at center-ring.
Ultimately, the cage becomes just as important and impactful as the floor. Angles are nearly impossible to create from the bottom, since generally speaking the top fighter will drive at least one shoulder into the angle of the cage and floor, effectively pinning the entire torso. There is no such positional control method in a ring. A ring creates an artificial limitation to the fight, and also introduces unnecessary breaks in the action.
Anyways, that’s how I see it.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Feb 11, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Actually if the body slips under the ropes than the ref moves the fighters back to the center of the ring or workable distance away from the ropes where the fighters re-engage in the same position. At least that is how Affliction has been running it.
Which is actually a point I attempted to make above.
Wrestlers, in open space, are at a disadvantage compared to working against the cage. BJJ practitioners experience the opposite effect, since they are better able to create angles and distance in the guard while away from any vertical surfaces.
For applied wrestling in MMA, the goal is to control position. For applied BJJ in MMA, the goal is to mitigate damage first, and attempt to finish the opponent second. Both of the goals for the BJJ practitioner are helped by open space, and hindered by being pressed up against the cage.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Much more well put than I could’ve. Wrestlers are inherently disadvantaged by ropes. Rec’d/
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 11, 2009 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
Lesnar would destroy Werdum.
And you got knocked out by a fucking rookie in the first round, so forgive me if I chalk up your ramblings about being passed over for a title shot to the residual effects of getting knocked out by a fucking rookie in the first round.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 3:44 PM EST reply actions
Actually
Werdum’s ground game is better than Mir’s and Werdum has never been stopped before the Santos fight, so yeah, I would have to disagree with you their. Werdum is A BAD matchup for Lesnar.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Werdum > Mir is major matter of personal opinion
And I think it’s non-applicable, because Mir is almost inarguably better at working legs, and that’s clearly what he needed to go for against Lesnar. Furthermore, Lesnar is likely miles away from where he was when he gave up his leg. Lesnar would mow over Werdum, in my eyes. And I like Werdum, but after seeing him exposed by Dos Santos, I have no doubt Lesnar would rag doll him.
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
How do you get exposed on a flash KO in one fight?
Was Arlovski exposed against Sylvia or Randy against Chuck?
People make one loss too big of a deal now a days.
Its the fighters overall consistency and performance that matters.
If Werdum hots KOed again in his next fight, then you can say that, but that hasn’t happened.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
It exposed his CHIN
LOLZ @ flash KO. That term is comedic. Randy and Arlovski were proven to have suspect chins after both of those bouts. I didn’t call Werdum dead to the world, but look at Herring’s face and subsequent rehabilitation and tell me a guy that can get popped like Werdum just did wants to bounced his face off those mitts. Get serious….
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
You mean all his previous fighters like Aleks and Overeem failed to expose his chin?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
He had a bad chin day
Is that what you’re asking me to write it off to? Nicely done..
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
All fighters have a bad chin if you get hit on the button.
Chuck was supposed to have a great chin, and so did Nog.
It happens eventually.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Difference being, Werdme was a top 10 guy and got KTFO by a scrub. The others mentioned did not get KTFO by a scrub but by top 5 guys.
But Werdum has fought top 10 guys before, which failed to expose his chin, which is how he ended up in the top 10 in the first place.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Werdum fought and lost to top 10 guys and happen to beat some flash top 10 guys. How does that make him top 10 or deserving of a title shot? it doesn’t.
More accomplished than any other HW the UFC had.
Thats how.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Too bad Randy said ‘I want Brock’, eh?
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Mir’s gotten his ass handed to him by a handful of scrubs and it still wasn’t time to kick dirt on him.
Mir’s leg was snapped in half…that gives you a little bit of leeway.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
He has better wins than arlovski…
Nog and Sylvia.
Arlovski’s best win EVER was sylvia which he then lost twice to… after those losses he has yet to come back and beat anyone equal or better.
Arlovski was knocked the fuck out by some douchebag they found off the street who talks to himself.
LOL.
He’s never really going to live down that loss.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, Arlovski’s hitlist at heavyweight is way better than Mir’s. But if you’re going to shit so agressively on Arlovski, why not give Mir equal treatment?
Mir got fucking clowned by an unranked LHW in Brandon Vera.
Mir got his ass handed to him brutally by unranked Ian Freeman.
Mir got the shit kicked out of him BY A 1-0 BJJ FIGHTER.
And Lesnar, of course, got tapped by a career loser in Frank Mir.
So, by your standards, Mir and Lesnar are complete garbage. The only relevant HW in the world is Fedor, because he has no losses.
by smoogy on Feb 10, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Two of Mir’s three career losses were suffered while coming back from an injury that could have potentially ended his career.
Lesnar’s one loss was to a finally healthy Mir in only his second professional fight.
Unless Arlovski had a motorcycle accident I’m not aware of or I just imagined 90% of his career experience prior to his losses, I’m not sure how the situations are comparable.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 10, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
I dont give mir equal treatment because I never said Mir was the #2 heavyweight… You’re saying Arlovski is the #2 HW in the world.
After mir gets into a career ending accident he has 2 losses…
After Arlovski gets tapped on the chin he goes to sleep and becomes a vegetable…
At the end of the day Arlovski’s best win was sylvia who he then lost to twice.
So that win over sylvia 3 years ago was the apex of his career… somehow he leaves the UFC and is now considered – by the retards – as the 2nd best heavyweight in the world.
Or it could be his recent performances against Fedor, Nelson, Rothwell, and Jake Obrien.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, one guy a universal symbol of the UFC HW division’s crapness (although JOB has now dropped to 205 because he couldn’t hack it as a HW) and two guys the UFC didn’t even deem worthy of signing to said crappy division.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
O’Brien’s fighting at LHW now.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 12, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
That has a lot to do with Rothwell and Nelson being grossly overrated.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 10, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Which, coincidentally
is the general problem people have with Arlovski’s ‘ranking’ status.
Weird…
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
And how would Werdum get Lesnar in a position to where he could use that BJJ? Because he’s DEF not taking hiw down on his own accord..
Maybe Brock’s plan would be to fight off his back like BJ against GSP, and then he could spend the whole fight avoiding takedowns.
Brock’s been working the rubber guard heavily in Minnesota.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
His Pentagram choke is a nightmare.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 10, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
His opponent’s head would pop off like a cork on a champagne bottle.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 10, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
On a note similar to that…I never want Dan Miller to guillotine me…
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Also… I never want to be Jake Rosholt
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
One of the scariest subs ever:
Dan Miller Guillotines Dave Phillips
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 10, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
I remember seeing that. I thought he was dead.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think there is anyone that can take lesnar down to the ground unless he wants to go down to the ground though. His wrestling, strength, and size dictates where the fight will take place most likely.
Once on the ground, Werdum the BJJ Blackbelt would sub him.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
well no shit sherlock. Next you are going to tell me getting punched by rampage hurts
why would lesnar ever go to the ground with werdum?
He controlled those during the Couture fight, right?
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Werdum is a MUCH bigger man than Randy.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
And Randy would wrestle Werdum to the ground like a bitch. Your point?
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
There might be one heavyweight in the world that can take Lesnar down if he doesn’t want to go there, and his name is Fedor.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Barnett and Werdum are pretty good candidates.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
No.
Neither Barnett nor Werdum have the offensive wrestling to get Brock to the ground with much consistency.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 10, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
That’s adorable.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 10, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
smacks forehead
Delusion isn’t a pretty color on you.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Barnett?
I know you saw the Yvel fight and the guy that showed up across the ring from him has no business fighting someone as strong as Brock Lesnar. Maybe Barnett three years ago (or Barnett with a good showing next time out).
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Conjecture
You think when he was mounting Yvel and couldn’t strike him with any force it was out of boredom? I don’t imagine he’ll be getting a sponsorship from 5 Hour Energy anytime soon…
by Charles Awad on Feb 10, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
He wouldn’t. Ever. He’d knock him down and finish, just like he did to Randy.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Or knock him down and get subbed, just like he did against Randy. You are crazy defensive whenever anybody criticizes Lesnar, man. Calm down. If you’re right about him I’m sure everyone will come around soon enough.
You mean like he did against Mir – and I dare say he’ll never fight again like he did in that fight. Now, he controls position. Now, he backs up if he’s in trouble. And now, his striking is vastly improved. Werdum would have no chance whatsoever against Lesnar.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
You never answered how Werdum gets Lesnar to the ground because Lesnar would never go for a take down and never ever be taken down by Werdum.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 10, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Lesnar’s isn’t exactly magic on his feet. He has some big clubs but his footwork is still crooked. I’d give him the edge over Werdum.
Takedowns aren’t all shooting and strength, a slick move in the clinch would get Lesnar off balance.
I guess Brock can stand outside and put on Tim Sylvia performance.
Takedowns aren’t all shooting and strength, a slick move in the clinch would get Lesnar off balance.
If anybody in the world could expose Lesnar that way, it would have been Couture.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, people can get him down. Its just very, very, very hard.
I would take Lesnar against Werdum, though its certainly possible that Werdum could get him down and sub him. We’re just talking probabilities here. Probability is that Werdum is going to have a fucking difficult time getting Lesnar down. Ain’t rocket science there.
by Michaelthebox on Feb 10, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, considering it took the best wrestler in all of MMA who outweighed him by at least fifteen pounds to do it. That is completely relevant comparison. I am not being, and never have been, sarcastic.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 10, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Guys lets get realistic here
What would be the mostl ike result of a Lesnar-Werdum fight?
I would have to say Lesnar by UD. Lesnar is not that likely to knock out Werdum – Werdum is pretty big himself. If he trains correctly the weight difference would only be 20lbs (40 at Max).
It’s unlikely Werdum would get Lesnar to ther ground but if he did I would say he has a great chance of finishing him by sub.
Until they fight we’ll never know though…
Meh..
This isn’t so wild. His opinions are reasonable and he’s absolutely not trashing Lesnar. Saying someone isn’t the best in the world isn’t trash talk unless you’re saying it about Fedor, GSP, Torres or Anderson..
I would discount Torres from that list
I think there’s a bunch of people who could beat Torres at 135, Urijah Faber and Kid Yamamoto included.
Torres is good – but lets not get ahead of ourselves and compare him to Anderson Silva….
Nonsense
Why don’t you just consider a handful of dudes from 205 to come down and possibly beat Anderson while you’re at it?
by Charles Awad on Feb 11, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yamamoto fights at 135 and Faber could.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yamamoto fights in Japan, would be fighting Faber domestically, and I’d easily pick Torres to beat him. Faber is not going to fight Torres anytime soon. My argument is a realistic one and it stands on its own, present day, without need for fantasy scenarios and the like. Machida, GSP (which, technically, works both ways) or Rampage could fight Anderson, too. That’s the point I’m making..
by Charles Awad on Feb 11, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
But that's not the point
Rampage couldn’t fight at 185. Maybe Machida could (and I like him alot and would rate him pound-for-pound).
I think both Yamamoto and Faber could beat Toerres at 135.
But obviously your a big Torres fan so….agree to disagree.
I'll just disagree
Yeah, I’m a huge Torres fan. Ha…
by Charles Awad on Feb 11, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
I would like to congratulate Werdum on becoming the most delusional fighter in MMA, and here I thought BJ was full of crap. Did he forget getting knocked the f*** out by Dos Santos or putting on a horrible performance against AA? while in the UFC. Did he also forget how Brock finished Randy and Mir basically destroyed and dominated Nog in their fights to determine a UFC undisputed HW champion?. I would expect these kind of idiotic comments from Tito but maybe Dos Santos did more damage with his KO than I thought.
Werdum and the other on here need to realise that the UFC has proven that they have the best HW’s in the world look at how the Pride counterparts have done once they step in the cage. From CC to Herring to Werdum to Nog it’s clear that the myth that Pride fighters were better was just that, the best fight in the UFC and the UFC title is the only HW title that matters.
Did you forget the beatings he gave Gonzaga and Vera?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Y’know, I never saw the Vera fight. Weren’t people bitching about the stoppage after it, though? Or am I just imagining that (real possibility)?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 10, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
They were complaining about the stoppage, saying it was early, but it still doesn’t take that fact that Werdum was on top and punishing Vera while he was just being turtled up.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 10, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
Got it.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 10, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Supremacy
You better cross your fingers Gonzaga beats Carwin – then gets a shot at whoever is the titleholder (Mir/Lesnar).
If he can get through those two fights without getting smashed then we will have to look back and give Werdum some credit.
Absolutely, and I would think that Gonzaga should be the favorite against the still green Carwin at this point.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
… too bad Carwin’s going to knock him out.
:)
by Kierkegaard on Feb 11, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope so because I like Carwin, but Gonzaga has looked better recently.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Except against Werdum, where he got destroyed.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
I said “recently.”
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Geez, whats the definition of Recently?
That was only a year ago.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
He has only fought McCully and Hendricks since.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Recently in this case = last two fights.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
“Recent” competition not very good then.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
True enough. Perhaps that’s why he has looked better.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
lol at this thread. It is amazing how much more talk there is surrounding Werdum now, than when he actually fights!
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
Look at the number of posts each person makes. Most of it is back and forth arguing between parties that will not be swayed from their position but still continue to try and convince each other.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
I disagree!
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 11, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
You’re a shill!
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Feb 11, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
His words are far more interesting than his actions.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Vera and Gonzaga would never like to read his words then.
:)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 11, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 11, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, I didn’t know Blackout612 was his publicist?
Can you confirm that Werdum is fighting on Affliction 3?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 12, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
No, because nobody can mwahahahahaha
Other than Werdum-Sylvia what fight would he be in at Affliction 3 that would be worth a damn? (and don’t say Rothwell, Rizzo or Nelson, those are significant steps down even for Fabricio)
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
There are tons of good fights.
Werdum vs Barnett, Fedor, Arlovski, Sylvia are all pretty great matchups.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Feb 12, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
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