UFC 94 Wrap Up Thoughts: Georges St. Pierre Outclasses BJ Penn
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 10:48 AM EST
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When liveblogging fights it usually takes me a second viewing to be able to really come to terms with everything that happened on a show but tonight I am so amped up that I am just putting it all out there.
Georges St. Pierre put on one of the most dominating performances I've seen in my life. Sure, there have been other guys who have dominated their opponents in the past but this was a four round destruction of a top five pound for pound fighter in arguably the "biggest fight" in the history of the UFC.
I think it is apposite to stop here and address the opinions that this fight somehow loses significance because of the outcome. I've been saying in comment sections lately that it needs to be understood that historical significance can be achieved in two ways for a fight. 1) It is an obvious historic fight in its matchmaking. This is not a function of the outcome of a fight, it is a function of the factors involved in the fight prior to it taking place. 2) The aftermath creates a historic situation. This was the case with Griffin vs. Bonnar where it provided its own hype. It was the finish to a significant television show in the show but it provided its own significance via the action in the fight. This was a clearly historic fight from the moment it was announced.
But the amazing thing in the actual outcome of the fight was that St. Pierre dominated Penn in the stand-up despite all the talk of Penn having the best boxing in the sport, he got takedowns with frequency despite Penn's reputation as a very hard guy to put on his back, and he dominated on the ground even passing Penn's notoriously great guard with ease on several occasions. After the first few times where Penn threw his legs up to get a high guard and GSP was able to shrug them back down and do damage Penn looked worried and the first time that GSP passed to side control and started landing blows BJ looked downright chapfallen.
I sincerely believe that there is not a man on this earth who can beat the St. Pierre who showed up tonight in a welterweight fight. Thiago Alves is going to get thrashed if St. Pierre shows up motivated when the two clash.
Let's also not diminish BJ Penn's place in the world of fighting. He is a guy who won the 170 lb. championship from Matt Hughes during the height of Hughes' dominance so I refuse to accept the idea that he is unable to compete at an elite level at 170. Despite this fight's outcome there is no doubt in my mind that Penn is still the best lightweight in the world.
Lyoto Machida is a beast. There was nothing different in his approach to this fight from any other. This was not a case of him trying to finish a fight to impress the fans. He used the normal footwork and legerity to force Silva to chase him and eat carefully chosen shots. When Silva was able to close distance Machida used simple foot sweeps to put him down and not be forced outside of his comfort zone. He put the stout Thiago down on THREE occasions with the final being as decisive as it gets. This man is not boring, this man is as legitimate as it gets.
Jon Jones - The man simply proved me wrong. I thought that Bonnar would survive an early flurry and catch the younger Jones as he overextended and gassed out. He did gas but he had built up a very big lead and Bonnar kept clinching in the 3rd round when he clearly was catching the tired "Bones" with strikes. Why he chose to do that, I don't know. But I can't take anything away from Jones. For as young as he is, his skill level and potential is amazing.
On a final note, while I enjoyed the fights it did start to feel a little like the magical "UFC Returns to PPV" card where every single fight was going to a decision. It was a fun night of fights but the more casual fans I've heard feedback from found some of the fights (especially Karo/Stun Gun) to be pretty boring. Lucky for everyone the show closed very strong with the Jones/Machida/St. Pierre trifecta.
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The card overall..
wasn’t “great” but I was entertained as a fight fan. It didn’t quite live up to what I was expecting on the whole..but I don’t feel ripped off.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 2:54 AM EST up reply actions
Good Description.
Highlights for me were:
1st Round of the Jim Jones throws Bonnar around the ring fight! That was a fun to watch.
Lyoto Machida is THAT good. I love that people talked so much crap about how boring he is followed by him beating the shit out of Silva without suffering a scratch or even a simple bruise.
Machida vs Evans for a title fight between 2 undefeated fighters would be great! Give it to me Joe Silva!
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Agreed. It wasn’t a good card, and all the hype for GSP vs Penn, but we all saw the first one and there was not much difference in the second one.
Affliction 2 in the other hand had little hype but delivered BIG time.
I don't think there is any real reason..
to do the us vs. them thing here.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 3:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't think he's doing an us vs them
Just stating the fact that in his mind Afflcition was a better card than 93 and 94. I would say 92 was still better than A2 and 91 was (surprisingly) an awesome card.
If I were to rank (in terms of significance and excitement) it would be:
92
91
A2
94
93
Yes but certain people bring this kinda stuff up in every single post. Over and over and over again. It gets to the point where seeing who is posting you don’t have to read their post to know what is in it.
I agree...
I wish that every card could simply be judged on its own merit rather than having to immediately force it into a ranking with other recent shows. Rankings like this are so pointless in that they only serve to create arguments. No one is going to agree on every show’s worth compared to every other show. It’s just an opening for a war over “which promotion was better”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 3:35 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
Perhaps that’s due to the people who post.
I think any MMA is great. I don’t think it can really be realistically argued ‘which promotion is better’. The UFC is heads and shoulders above everyone else…
Just what I personally enjoyed watching…
Yes and no...
P4P is a part of fighting, the fight card vs. fight card leads to more of an us vs. them thing because it generally isn’t people arguing for one UFC show over another…it’s people arguing for UFC vs. Affliction or Dream…
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Here
91
A2
Blank
Blank
92
94
93
Both UFC 84 and 91 and A2 were GREAT cards on the level of the DREAM 3 and 5 cards
The others are on a level below not comparable to them
Gimme 1 Round!
92 > A2. Any poll will tell you this.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 1, 2009 3:40 AM EST up reply actions
Because more people
watch the UFC and casual fans that haven’t watched the Affliction show will vote
Gimme 1 Round!
This is how UFC won for best card of the year
When DREAM 3 and 5 were both better than ANYTHING the UFC put on this year. Though 84 and 91 were both at least in the same ballpark
Gimme 1 Round!
"Bones"
We thought that his nickname was Jon “Holmes” Jones. I take back my giggles when they said “He’s lost his spunk!”…
by the exit on Feb 1, 2009 2:54 AM EST reply actions
Also,
with all that shit talking, I am extremely disappointed that Penn couldn’t answer for round 5. However, I am certain it would have been an extension of round 4. I am happy that GSP gets the TKO, but I am sad that the LW champ couldn’t answer the bell.
by the exit on Feb 1, 2009 2:57 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not. Penn is the epitome of hubris; he really thought he could move up a weight class and hold two belts at the same time against a beast like GSP. It’s about time somebody beat the shit out of him just to let him know he isn’t god’s gift to fighting. Having to throw in the towel in the fourth in the biggest fight of his career is a no excuses loss that might just clear his head.
Penn fans better hope that this wakes him up and gets him to move to another camp and really taking it seriously, and not just saying he is.
Yeh I agree
Penn should probably go to train at AKA. That’s the only place that I can see will challenge him enough.
Brent Brookhouse...
is glad to have helped. ha
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 3:11 AM EST up reply actions
He Was Who We Thought He Was
To paraphrase, Dennis Greene and we crowned his ass. Stop apologizing for BJ. I’ve been a fan but be honest. He’s the same lazy, surround myself with yes men and train “island-style” by sitting around the gym talking crap and giving shakas to every one I pass as I speedwalk for a shaved ice so I can get up to 168. His gumby flexibility and razor sharp jabs never get better just stay the same because he stays the same. While GSP trains with the light heavyweight champion, BJ trains with Troy Mandaloniz who couldnt win a fight on ultimate fighter. Sherk would have beat him if he actually shot at him all fight instead of trying to hit him with his midget arms, BJ would have got winded and punched in the head eventually. The “new” BJ was winded in the Stevenson fight. If you didn’t notice, GSP was the quicker, better boxer tonight. Look at BJ’s fight metric numbers, he doesn’t submit on the ground because hes always going for omoplatas he can’t finish. Jon Fitch would beat BJ and even Kenny Florian will beat him (unless BJ starts training full-time at Xtreme Couture or a camp that actually pushes him and comes up with an actual strategy) because K-Flo uses his BJJ for something other than defense.
by bringbackbuddytrees on Feb 1, 2009 3:13 AM EST reply actions
I would love for Kenny Florian to beat BJ Penn
KenFlo is grinning right now – loving the fact that BJ is human. KenFlo called this fight for BJ!
I’m hopnig that Kenny can beat BJ but I honestly doubt it. I think I might be the biggest KenFlo fan out there…..go Kenny!!
Two things I just heard on Sherdog radio, there was some talk that BJ may of injured his shoulder in the first round and it was also mentioned that Penn’s camp is filing a complaint that GSP’s back was greased. Do we already have the BJ Penn excuse train up and running? I enjoy Penn’s fights but it seems like there always is some exuse when he loses and that does get old.
Where...
was his corner during the fight having the ref check out GSP? You have that shit checked IN fight…not afterward when it is impossible to verify and you just get to have a bullshit excuse handy.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 3:16 AM EST up reply actions
No clue, Josh Gross called into the after the bell show to talk about it and said they told him they were filing a complaint after the fight. GSP did apparently address the situation so I guess something did happen but it just seems like it’s more of the same from Penn’s camp.
On the MMA Live post-fight show GSP said the commission threw in a towel to wipe it off so I think it’s BJ’s corner looking for an excuse.
I don't think...
BJ’s ego could take the way he was being dominated so the only way to make it “make sense” was that he had to be greased up.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 3:28 AM EST up reply actions
damn, cant they lose gracefully?
im a big bj fan, but this is just wrong..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 1, 2009 3:30 AM EST up reply actions
BJ "The Excuse" Penn
Although I did note in the other forum that his stand up looked sub par from the beginning tonight. Still, if he had a shoulder issue it would have also showed on the ground . . . I didn’t see any indication. I saw a full range of movement and ability to push off of both shoulders.
I'm getting tired...
of seeing guys go so quickly to the excuses for every loss now. It’s always an injury in training or an injury in the fight or the other guy was cheating. It’s becoming increasingly rare for a guy to lose a big fight and just have it be a loss.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 3:33 AM EST up reply actions
welcome to boxing, fellas
The higher the stakes, the more excuses.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
Brent
The only time I believe it now is if a guy goes into surgery in the next week after the fight.
Gimme 1 Round!
Its actually legit
and I don’t question at all if they have the surgery scheduled before the fight and they still have the balls to fight anyways.
Gimme 1 Round!
Well the injury was just speculation from people who were there but the greasing down bit smacks of pure excuse making from his camp. It really takes away from him as a fighter.
While i dont think it changes the outcome, it should be noted that the asshole cornerman did actually put vasoline..
B.J. Penn’s camp has filed a formal complaint with the Nevada State Athletic Commission over Vaseline that was allegedly rubbed on Georges St. Pierre’s back between rounds one and two. UFC president Dana White said at the post-fight press conference that he was aware of the complaint, and said he personally witnessed members of the commission take the Vaseline away from GSP’s camp and rebuke them in the Octagon between rounds.
“I saw the commission jump up there and flipping out,” said Dana White. They said one of the guys was rubbing Vaseline on Georges’ back in between rounds. It was one and two, I think."
“The guys from the athletic commission went up there and started screaming at them. Knocked the Vaseline and kicked the Vaseline out of the Octagon.”
White added that “some Vaseline on a guy’s back didn’t change the outcome of that fight, but you don’t do it,” and said the blame should fall on the cornerman responsible and not GSP.
“If a guy was intentionally putting Vaseline on a guy’s back, he should never corner a mixed martial arts fight again.”
As for what becomes of the complaint now, White said it’s out of his hands.
“Who knows. That’s up to the commission.”
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 1, 2009 3:36 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm..
still…I agree that it didn’t change the outcome of the fight…but I have a feeling we’re in for a week or two of hearing that it did.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 3:37 AM EST up reply actions
bj should take his loss like a man.. but white is right.. you shouldnt do it.. and the cornerman should get the boot..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 1, 2009 3:38 AM EST up reply actions
Oh noes, it cost BJ teh fight.
But not really.
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 1, 2009 3:41 AM EST up reply actions
Margarito and now GSP?
Although I would hate to defend myself for greasy up my back for another man.
The injury could be legit...
but injuries are a part of the game. I can’t say ‘oh yeah, this diminishes the performance’ because GSP had every bit as much of a chance of getting hurt. It’s a combat sport..
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 3:36 AM EST up reply actions
A little grease between rounds on an already sweaty guy
and going out covered in Crisco like Akiyama did
are 2 very different things. It ain’t right but it didn’t change a damn thing
Gimme 1 Round!
Who wouldve known
the Machida fight was going to be teh best fight of the night?
As I called it, GSP by everything. He was just too dominant and for them to file a complaint is pointless. Owned fighter is owned.
Machida/Silva the best fight of the night? I thought that it was Bonnar/Jones. It had everything: mad greco tosses? Check. Double overhook suplexes? Check. Spinning back elbow off a single leg takedown attempt? Check.
I loved that fight.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
You're right
and Im buzzzzzzzed. That WAS a great fight. Machida and Jones FTW!
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 1, 2009 3:41 AM EST up reply actions
it was great for a little over a round
then he started to gas and it turned into another lean on the cage hugfest
Gimme 1 Round!
Jones v Cantwell for the under-24 LHW title
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 1, 2009 3:44 AM EST up reply actions
BJ
You belong at Lightweight, its should be an awesome fight between him and Florian but Im going with my boy Florian…
If Alves can land multiple murderous leg kicks...
I am excited for that fight – otherwise I have no idea who Anderson fights after dispatching Leites.
a LHW fight then winner of bisping/hendo.. then maybe GSP..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Feb 1, 2009 3:44 AM EST up reply actions
Great fights
I was beginning to feel discouraged by the fights until Jones/ Bonnar and even that one slowed to a bit of a grind. Overall I was stunned by the talent on display in Jones.
I haven’t been a fan of Machida for very long, having only seen his victory over Ortiz last year. He was a joy to watch then and I loved his performance against Silva. Same style as before but he managed to finish his tough opponent very quickly. Very happy to see that KO that came out of nowhere and furthermore did not look “flukey” like some KOs can appear to be.
GSP vs. Penn. Well… I was rooting for St. Pierre since the build up but man, I did not expect such a dominating performance. Just as surprised as everyone else… I thought it was going to be much closer than that.
What a surreal card
-8 decisions out of 10 fights, compared to 9 stoppages out of 11 fights at last week’s Affliction: Day of Reckoning. 5 split decisions for UFC 94 (new record) compared to 5 clean knockouts for Affliction. Not trying to start an argument, but for the people who conflate definitive wins and stoppages with excitement, something to chew on.
-Lyoto Machida not only saves the PPV with a knockout at about 5:04 of Round 1, he is the only fighter on the card to get a stoppage during a round (as opposed to a doctor or corner stoppage between rounds).
-ZERO submissions! Come on, that is the second time in three PPVs. I don’t want to open the whole can of worms about b-level kickboxing, but let us hope this is just an anomaly and not a sign of things to come.
Anyway, I enjoyed the card, Lyoto and Bones came up with some amazing highlight reel stuff, but the Dong robbery left a bad taste in my mouth. That was a draw at the absolute worst.
Im just glad GSP
won. This makes way for a lot of exciting match ups and fights. I really like BJ at Lightweight and Im torn between ALves/GSP/ Big fan of both. I guess I would like to see GSP win then fight Silva. Would be EPIC!
Agreed on Stun Gun
He was robbed of the decision even though the last round was a tired one for all involved. All Dong had to do was turn the dial up a half notch or so and put Karo away, points-wise, with more blows. Karo looked uninterested in the entire fight… didn’t deserve to win.
Absolutely agreed
But he really needs to sort out his conditioning. Go train in Montreal…
Are you really saying you agree that Karo won that fight?
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 1, 2009 4:11 AM EST up reply actions
He won two rounds to one, absolutely. It was a terrible fight and Dong’s first round was better than both of Karo’s combined but the 10 point must system doesn’t let you blow of 2/3’rds of a fight and still get the W.
I think he actually won the third
Except for the kick trip at the end. Neither guy really did anything though
Gimme 1 Round!
I disagree Brett
I think this fight proved Penn cannot fight with the elite at WW. 0-3 versus the last 2 guys who are/were the elite of the division.
Why isn’t being able to dominate one weight class enough anymore?
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 1, 2009 4:12 AM EST up reply actions
Because
Fedor could dominate everybody at 205 if they had the balls to fight him. That would be dominating 2 weight classes. Everybody has to hold that as the standard.
Gimme 1 Round!
Could Fedor even make 205?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Feb 1, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
It should be
But I am the one who would argue BJ hasn’t even dominated the LW class. I think every contender in the LW has had a tougher list of opponents than Penn. Sherk in my mind is only legit opponent and Sherk did a horrible job trying to compete in that fight.
I would agree with this
Sherk picked a hell of a fight to decide he wanted to be “entertaining” by boxing with BJ
Gimme 1 Round!
Also Agreed
But I don’t think Sherk would win in a rematch.
I think Sherk actually would win a rematch with Penn.
Penn just didn’t look good in the takedown defense against GSP, and Sherk isn’t that much smaller than BSP. His relentlessness and takedown ability are at the very least similar to GSP’s, and St. Pierre just wrote a book on how to take BJ down against the cage.
BJ’s going to have to evolve, or his life is going to get a lot harder from here on out. Still a ridiculously talented guy, but he’s no longer viewed as invincible in the guard, or as utterly impossible to take down.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Machida and Jones saved this card.
Diaz and Guida and Karo and Stun Gun both effectively nullified each others attacks and created positional wars that pissed off anyone that does not like tactical battles.
Jones as always displayed about 6 moves that I have never seen from an MMA fighter, most of them throws, I hope the upcoming Judo Chop has a Bones Jones special, because at 21 he is one of the top prospects in MMA.
Mmmm, I like tactical battles but besides the Diaz/Guida fight most of those battles were plain sloppy going into the 3rd round.
Yes I laughed at that too
I saw what he was going for before he moved into a postition where you could actually see his hands. I was like… Dude i haven’t seen that since I used it on a kid in the playground 15 years ago
Gimme 1 Round!
Am I the only one who is still shocked that Karo won that fight?
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
I had Kim winning. I had him winning 29-27. That first round was 10-8 for me.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
One thing though
BJ Penn’s chin is damn solid.
He’s on the Takanori Gomi level of iron-chin.
We always knew this but he definitely demonstrated it today. If it were GSP v GSP the one on the bottom would have been knocked out in round 2.
just as a fight can gain historical importance as it plays out, they can also lose historical importance as they play out. going in it was thought we had two evenly matched competitors, who some had 1a and 1b in the P4P rankings, at the top of their games battling it out. after another disappointing performance from BJ it really just looked like the #1 WW vs the #1 LW. BJ Penn is 1-4 in his last 5 fights outside of the LW division, so what happend last night was not an aberration. this fight does nothing to take away from BJ’s dominance of the LW division, though Florian is a tough competitor. Machida looked great, Silva looked like Noguiera from the Mir fight.
That's like saying...
that the Rumble in the Jungle wouldn’t have been important if it had been a boring 12 round decision. The fight was historically important for the sport regardless of how it played out (and yes…it did play out better than GSP/Penn…but the point remains.)
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 1, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
glad you brought up that fight. this is my entire point. the fight was only considered huge by those who believed in the huge possibilty of Pennn winning the fight. had the fight been billed as an underdog from a smaller weight class fighting a man who had already defeated him it wouldnt have the same luster. i contend BJ was never a serious threat to win the fight, and the odds back this up. Foreman was a 3-1 favorite over Ali, nobody thought Ali would be able to stand up to Foreman. Foreman has already destroyed Frazier and Norton, both of whom had defeated Ali. Yet the legend of this fight was Ali winning, had Foreman KOed Ali in round 1 this fight would not be what it is today.
They are who we thought they were
To paraphrase, Dennis Greene and we crowned his ass. Stop apologizing for BJ. I’ve been a fan but be honest. He’s the same lazy, surround myself with yes men and train “island-style” by sitting around the gym talking crap and giving shakas to every one I pass as I speedwalk for a shaved ice so I can get up to 168. His gumby flexibility and razor sharp jabs never get better just stay the same because he stays the same. While GSP rolls with the light heavyweight champion, BJ trains with Troy Mandaloniz who couldnt win a fight on ultimate fighter. Sherk would have beat him if he actually shot at him all fight instead of trying to hit him with his midget arms, BJ would have got winded and punched in the head eventually. The “new” BJ was winded in the Stevenson fight. If you didn’t notice, GSP was the quicker, better boxer tonight. Look at BJ’s fight metric numbers, he doesn’t submit on the ground because hes always going for omoplatas he can’t finish. Jon Fitch would beat BJ and even Kenny Florian will beat him (unless BJ starts training full-time at Xtreme Couture or a camp that actually pushes him and comes up with an actual strategy) because K-Flo uses his BJJ for something other than defense.
by bringbackbuddytrees on Feb 1, 2009 11:17 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Care for a Crow Sandwich, BJ?
BJ ought to think about:
Who’s the quitter now?
Who’s gone to the hospital now?
What happened to ‘fight to the death’?
After getting released from the hospital, BJ ought to go home, kick off his filthy little slippers, go to bed, take a few minutes, and go KCUF himself.
Aloha, brah!
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