UFC 107 Preview: Don't Buy the Hype, Frank Mir Won't Look to Stand Against Cheick Kongo
by Michael Rome on Dec 9, 2009 1:06 PM EST
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Frank Mir is a master of many things, but he is particularly good at hyping fights. In fact, he may be the best. The work he did before his UFC 100 fight with Brock Lesnar was masterful. Fans that hated Lesnar loved it, and Lesnar's valiant defenders hated Mir with all their being. He's at it again, but this time with Cheick Kongo. By the time Countdown to UFC 107 was over, all I wanted was to see Cheick Kongo get his hands on Frank Mir.
Frank Mir told the press weeks ago that he intended to stand with Kongo and beat him at his own game. Mir has a lot of confidence in his striking, and I do think he'll exchange a little, but there is no way he is going to try to win a kickboxing match at UFC 107. He will take this to the ground at the first available opportunity. He'll do this because his livelihood depends on it.
If Frank Mir wins at UFC 107, the path to a rematch with Brock Lesnar begins. Carwin will get Lesnar's first fight back, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Mir fight the Nogueira/Velasquez winner for a title shot. Mir already started hyping a trilogy fight with Lesnar on the Countdown show, and it was one of those things where as soon as I saw him talking about it on television, I immediately realized what a monster number a third fight would do. But to get there, Mir needs legitimate wins. The path starts Saturday night.
I see Mir as the favorite, though I wouldn't be shocked to see Kongo win. Wolfslair has never put enough emphasis on proper wrestling and jiu-jitsu training; it is primarily a striking camp, and I don't buy into the idea that Kongo training on the ground out there is going to enable him to survive Frank Mir.
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Except for the last week, he’s been saying he’s going to take the fight to the ground.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
^ this
The title confused me here. I watched the Countdown show and Mir seemed pretty clear that he was going to take Kongo down and submit him.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
In response to his poor take downs
he talked about how Cain was able to take down Kongo when he was out on his feet. He is planning to make this a ground fight.
Yup
So I’m not sure where there is hype that Mir will keep it standing.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
He said it a couple months back, if I wasn’t on my phone I’d look for the exact quotes.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 9, 2009 1:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I remember in one of Mir’s recent interviews that he pretty much said that he will take the fight to the ground because Kongo has the best chance of winning the fight on the standup. If Kongo gets taken down, I can see him giving up his back trying to stand back up (which will be his downfall), but on the feet, I see Kongo using his reach to try and not get taken down.
I’m hoping he tries to kickbox Kongo and gets his fucking head kicked off. I’m sorry, but I just can’t find any reason to like Mir. He’s claiming he has better striking than Kongo, that Kongo loses “fight after fight” and comments about the quality of his English. And even if Mur does win, I hope Kongo lands at least one solid dick-kick.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Yeah, there is no indication he’ll do that. The few interviews he’s done in the last week were all focusing on his ground game, and he brought in BJJ guys to help him tune his jiu-jitsu for the fight. It’s a classic grappler vs. striker showdown for sure.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 9, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
As a man I shouldn't agree with this, but in the case I wholeheartedly support it.
I hope Kongo lands at least one solid dick-kick.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
To be fair, I think the interviewer on the Countdown show was asking about Kongo’s marketability, which is why Mir talked about his English along with the fact that he looks tough. I think the editing just made it look like Mir was dissing Kongo’s English for no reason.
by filipinomix2oo0 on Dec 9, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Mir’s the rare type of fighter that I like because most people don’t like him. I guess he’s sort of my Triple H of MMA (is Triple H still a heel?).
Really, I’m a fan because his second fight with Wes Sims got me into MMA. As someone said the other day, the Mir War Wagon is pretty vacant if anyone wants to help steer…
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
I can’t relate to the Mir Hate. Not sure if it’s related to Lesnar or what. I don’t love him, but I can respect him for some reasons.
Mir is a lot of things though, and stupid ain’t one of them. If he let’s this fight stand I’d be extremely surprised. He’d have to have the intelligence of a 5 year old to believe he’ll win standing with Kongo.
No Lesnar
Did you watch the Countdown show? What is the purpose of attacking Kongo’s English speaking ability? He’s impossible to like with his newfound cocksure personality.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
People hate Mir because he doesn’t worship Lesnar. Same with Carwin. Any other reason (see above) is obvious bullshit.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
Hahaha
Insulting a guy’s English speaking abilities is a clear afront to Lesnar. Good call.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
I’m not a fan of Mir, but I think he’s skilled.
That said, he’s becoming a master at hyping and selling a fight. And currently, that skill is in short supply, and is needed very much by the UFC.
Mir can set himself up for some big paydays if he can win on Sat.
by Hardcharger on Dec 9, 2009 12:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Is everyone on the internet a super high metabolism hard gainer? Gaining 25lbs in 5 months is not really all that unreasonable.
Yeah, If you’re a bodybuilder and you lift weights and sleep. When you have to roll, spar, do intense cardio, I imagine it can be hard to gain so much weight. Unless he just got fatter…
by dancingChicken on Dec 9, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
It isn’t impossible to do, especially for a full-time fighter.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 9, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe they have some secret weight training methods, but why GSP needs a year to gain 10 lbs and Mir 5 months to gain 25?
by dancingChicken on Dec 9, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Because GSP is in a division where he has to cut large amounts of weight and so if he’s gaining weight it all has to be lean mass
Mir is in a division where he basically just needs to gain mass and has about 30lbs before he’s peaking out his weight division. Big difference.
by Jason H. on Dec 9, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, he could gain 25 lbs (muscles + fat), but what I’m curious about is his conditioning. I assumed from the beginning that he gained weight and kept high level of conditioning. Gaining so much weight that fast and having good cardio doesn’t go toe to toe, that’s the reason why people who try to gain weight have to reduce cardio training. Principles of muscles growth are the same for every people.
by dancingChicken on Dec 9, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
He supposedly had it in his last two fight (if you can trust him). + Didn’t looked gassed after 5 minutes of brocksmash.
He said lately that he now understands the meaning of conditioning in MMA, so I assume that he isn’t so stupid to gain weight for Brock no matter what.
by dancingChicken on Dec 9, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
It's not relative
GSP isn’t trying to beef up, he’s just noticed that his body is growing and he probably has to take measures to ensure he doesn’t climb over a comfortable cutting-weight.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
In boxing what GSP is doing is reffered to as gaining “quality” muscle, and buiding muscle the “right way” in that it doesn’t negatively impact cardio endurance.
25 lbs in 5 months without pharmaceuticals is prolly mostly fat and waterweight. Although if he retains his cardio, speed, and power and adds fat and water… that isn’t a bad thing at all.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Dec 9, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Huge differences.
GSP has talked about how awful his diet has been at times, including tons of fast food. He clearly has a bitch of a metabolism, and that combined with his conditioning makes it hard to gain weight. Mir has shown up looking really sloppy, beyond soft, and carrying excess body fat. He’s now adding mass onto his newer, more solid physique. Totally different bodies.
Not to mention that one guy is 5’10"ish and the other is 6’4"ish. Kinda makes a difference.
by pdl on Dec 9, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
CLUELESS!
It’s impossible to gain that much weight in that amount of time. Yea if you have some growth & juice, sure. I’m assuming we are talking about gaining muscle, not fat because that’s easy. If you think otherwise than you haven’t lifted weights.
by SHOGUNROBBERY on Dec 9, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think I would advise Mir to switch away from endurance-based training.
by JRN on Dec 9, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly--
It looks like that’s what he’s done. A lot of MMA gyms will give you shit for weight training the way he was on the Countdown show last night.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Or like most people who are bulking up you gain both muscle AND fat, and because Mir has a cap in the HW division, and isn’t a bodybuilder who needs to be at a low bodyfat percentage to look great, he can get away with gaining both kinds of weight because the mass will help him either way.
It sure helps Roy
when he uses his smother attack!
by ryanwk628 on Dec 9, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
its not impossible to gain 25 lbs in 5 months
It is impossible to gain 25 lbs of muscle in 5 months without AAS though.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Dec 9, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe if youre 5’6, but Mir is 6’3. Thats a lot of frame to add muscle. You can easily gain 10 lbs in your legs alone if you havent been lifting legs hard. Start taking creatine and youll go up another 10.
Taking creatine doesn’t add muscle mass, it adds water weight. If you lift heavy and take creatine, and abandon the creatine but keep lifting your muscles will literally deflate.
And its not like Mir is both new to weightlifting and a teenager to be able to see those insane beginner gains either.
I said earlier that Mir doesn’t have to gain 25 lbs of muscle for it to help his game out. He’s in a weight class where if his other physical attributes (strength, power, endurance, etc) either stay the same or get better, the added weight, be it fa/water/muscle, will only help him.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Dec 9, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Taking creatine doesn’t add muscle mass, it adds water weight.
No, it doesn’t. Creatine provides a boost in amino acids to reconstitute depleted muscle tissue (strengthening the regenerative process) and increases protein/muscle synthesis.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
last time Mir gained weight it was a combo of Junk Food / Booze not roids so won’t worry he will pas the piss test. He just might be the out of shape Mir who fought and got crussed buy Marcio Cruz look horrible in a decision win against Dan Christison and got steam rolled buy Brandon Vera. If that Mir Shows up He has about a 90 to 120 second window before his gas tank runs out and Kongo destroys him.
Erm...
Wolfslair has never put enough emphasis on proper wrestling and jiu-jitsu training; it is primarily a striking camp, and I don’t buy into the idea that Kongo training on the ground out there is going to enable him to survive Frank Mir
Wolfslair has Mario Sukata as their head BJJ coach and both Zach Light and Tiki Ghosn routinely train their fighters in ground skills. Ricco Rodriguez also trains there.
Sure, Wolfslair co-owner Dave Jackson is better known for his muay thai coaching – sure, European fighters might be a bit disadvantaged coming in to MMA since there are no high school or college wrestling programmes over here, but once they enter a solid camp, they tend to catch up fast – UFC 105, anyone?
by VikingPhotography on Dec 9, 2009 12:40 PM EST reply actions
Considering Zach Light lost his last 4 fights by submission, and Tiki Ghosn was a mediocre fighter who wasn’t known for particularly good ground skills, this sounds like an explanation of the problem rather than convincing otherwise.
It sounds like basically most of the old Team Punishment camp, which has had a very hard time pushing their guys to the next level since multidimensional fighters have become the rule and not the exception.
That said, I feel like Mir’s submission game is dangerous when he’s fighting guys who have no submission defense (Tank Abbott, Brock in his 2nd MMA fight) but not so much when fighting skilled guys. Kongo will do better than most people expect.
There is no particularly compelling evidence that Wolfslair don’t emphasise “proper wrestling and jiu-jitsu training”. Bisping is the archetypal Wolfslair product and has extremely solid jiu-jitsu and some great positional awareness, his wrestling/takedown defence is also fairly impressive considering he never did a lick of it until he was well into his twenties and can remain competitive with the likes of Kang, Hammill and Rashad.
Paul Kelly also has decent wrestling and ground game for an ultimately mediocre Brit fighter.
Their fighters within the UK scene are known for having relatively good wrestling and ground games.
“but what about kongo!?!?!!”
Kongo only began training at the Wolfslair full time in 2008. He was clearly lacking against Herring but I’m not sure how much a camp is supposed to improve someone in such a short amount of time. The Cain fight doesn’t really tell us much about the camp either because he took the bout on 3 weeks notice and and injured his knee a week before the fight.
Erm
Mario Sucata was submitted by Justin McCully…I don’t think I’d brag about him being my BJJ coach ;)
unless mir does something really stupid, no way he should lose. Kongo has never beaten a top hw. Only way kongo wins is if he comes out super aggressive, like he did 3rd round against ass silva, but i doubt kongo will do that. Last i checked, there had been some good value on Mir at like -170..
by TLow on Dec 9, 2009 12:42 PM EST via mobile reply actions
No, he surely can’t come out super agressive, that’s the best way to end up being taken down at the begining of the round. He needs to be compact and precise, like shogun against machida. Leave no openings and take the guy apart with simple kickboxing. Kongo got the power and the speed to make it work.
10/24
maybe. I’m not sure kongo has that in his skillset. He doesn’t dance out of the way enough, and likes to stand in front of guys for whateveq reason. So if he.s standing in front of them, he’s got to be throwing enough to hurt
by TLow on Dec 9, 2009 2:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Mir said about Lesnar
that he was going to beat him in the stand up, and then if that didn’t work, he was going to beat him on the ground. Only problem is, he lost both of those battles. As for his skills as a person to hype is fights, I for one could care less. He doesn’t make me like him more or hate him more with what he says. Just because he shoot his mouth off before a fight doesn’t make me want to buy a PPV he’s on, the entire card, will make me buy the PPV he’s on, not just him. If I think the card sucks then I don’t buy, regardless of the main event.
So, WolfsLair doesn’t do good Jiu Jitsu training? WTF was up with Bisping’s greatly improved JJ against Denis Kang?
by Polyh3dron on Dec 9, 2009 1:42 PM EST via mobile reply actions
ugh.... Mir..
He just does everything in his power to make himself unlikeable.Promoting himself, while degrading his opponent. When has he not done this? Its a shame that he is so well spoken, because he could promote himself in the manor that Randy does. Humility would make Mir a world beater to most fans I think.. But he cant seem to muster enough of it out without projecting this rediculous cocky persona. Kongo has it right “he talk too much.. too much.. too much..” And i thought that Lesnar pounding him into oblivion would have sparked a new attitude. But as soon as he left the cage, he was back to his old ways..Its like Tito.. after a while, it just gets old..
With a full training camp, Kongo has a ligitimate chance at beating Mir, and I hope he comes out and just destroys frank.. maybe it will open his eyes
Humility would make Mir a world beater to most fans I think.. But he cant seem to muster enough of it out without projecting this rediculous cocky persona.
I disagree. People love Lesnar and he could be considered to have an extremely cocky persona, while Carwin is very humble and people hate on him. What Mir and Carwin have in common, tho, is that they have spoken ill of Lesnar.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
People love Lesnar and he could be considered to have an extremely cocky persona
Could be? I’ll be one of the first to say I like Lesnar, but no one on the planet can question how cocky Lesnar is. But I think the biggest difference is Lesnars experience in that department. Mir just doesn’t have it yet, nor has he truly had the opportunity to develop that skill. Maybe they should work together on it and we will see a complete 180 in Mir’s talking skills.
lol
I was trying to be polite. :)
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
I don’t know about people LOVING Lesnar. I think it’s more for the either LOVE HIM or LOVE TO HATE him. He plays the heel well, and those who can look past that simply like him. Best of both worlds, and Tito had that going for him during his stints on TUF.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 9, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
The fact that people still get caught up in the hype and interviews always amazes me. I thought we all knew better than to take anything a fighter says before a fight seriously but apparently people still haven’t figured it out.
by Raker on Dec 9, 2009 2:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Kayfabe
Fighting is the hurt business; it requires ego and self-belief that many average people (whom have never fought) may find offensive.
Some fighters may exaggerate their dislike of their opponents purely for the media/entertainment value but I don’t doubt for one second that there are grains of truth in what they say when they “talk up” their upcoming bouts.
Whilst it is true that to fight in any combat sport is a test of your physical abilities and mental fortitude, it is also absolutely about your ability to impose your will on another human; to dominate them phyiscally and mentally and to defeat them.
How can you be 100% respectful of someone that you intend to defeat in combat?
by VikingPhotography on Dec 9, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
How can you be 100% respectful of someone that you intend to defeat in combat?
When the guy in front of you isn’t talking shit, and the media aren’t on your ass all day, trying to make you say things, that’s actually possible. I don’t think there was any disrespect between guys like GSP and Fitch for exemple.
"You talk too much, too much, too much..."
GSP/Alves is another good example..
I’m not sure I’ve ever heard two fighters say so many nice things about each other who were about to throw down.
Striking
I know this article is about Mir, but why isn’t anyone pointing to the fact that Mir’s standup is horrible compared to Kongo’s? Mir straight legs when he punches, he kind of looks like young Forrest Gump with the knee braces when he punches. Kongo is an animal standing up. If Kongo can prevent the takedown, I say Mir goes to sleep.
Because Mir won’t stand with Kongo.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 9, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt Mir will stand with Kongo, but lets not forget that Mir KO Nog.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
Mir KO'd half a Nog
When I watched that fight live I thought Nog didn’t look like himself. Then when Nog fought Randy they said he had staph and that explained a lot. So all this “Mir has awesome stand-up” now is just nonsense.
Hadoken!!
So what you are saying is Lesnar is the common dnominator?
I buy that. But Carwin contradicts himself often and i think fans pick up on that. You only get one feeling from brock.. he wears his heart on his sleeve and doesnt care what anyone else thinks. Mir doesnt have respect for his opponents in my opinion, even if has respect for their skills.
Brock said he never respects his opponents, Mir, well he disrespect his opponents.
I wonder why he mentioned cheick’s bad english though. It came out really douchey, I took it badly seriously, I’m french too and I feel for Kongo everytime he has to speak english. English is just not for us, we suck at it, massively, period.
About the Carwin hate, lol, I read all of Mike Fagan’s “week in quote”, and it’s still a mystery to me.
"You talk too much, too much, too much..."
I thougt the 107 countdown was great because of Penn and Sanchez, two legitimately kooky guys who seem to rise to challenges. But the Frank Mir parts were just sad and cringe-inducing. Much as his stint doing WEC commentary seems to have given him the notion that he is an eloquent, intelligent speaker, his feud with Lesnar really made him believe he was a world class, WWE-level worker. But everything he says is so contrived and so cheesey, it just comes off as a desperate attempt to stay relevant to the UFC marks who can’t get enough of that kind of stuff.
I really hope he tries to kickbox with Kongo though. All he has is that left cross – right uppercut pattern that he spammed non-stop on Nogueira. If Chieck’s camp is worth a damn, I’m sure he’ll have a very specific counter prepared for Mir’s predictable fighting style
by smoogy2 on Dec 9, 2009 4:44 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
This illustrates how I feel about him pretty accurately. He’s got Tito-itis; attempting to communicate more intelligently than his mind will allow.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Mir is great.
He makes himself an easy target for the internet fans who do all they can to discredit him at every turn.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
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