UFC 107 Preview: Kenny Florian and Clay Guida Remake Themselves
by Kid Nate on Dec 8, 2009 4:10 PM EST
in MMA News
45 comments
Dave Meltzer reports that Clay Guida is training with Greg Jackson's famous camp in an effort to reach that elusive next level:
Guida left his usual training headquarters in the Chicago suburb of Schaumburg, Ill., for Albuquerque, N.M. and the vaunted Greg Jackson camp two months ago.
He's lived in an RV on an Indian reservation outside of town, and flew in some of his coaches and former training partners. He also worked with a whole new set of partners, particularly praising Jon Jones, another newcomer to the Jackson camp who he trained with extensively since they were fighting a week apart.
But Kenny Florian isn't sitting still:
Florian has done a good deal of his training for (Guida) at the Tri-Star Gym in Montreal, under Georges St. Pierre's main trainer Firas Zahabi, who will be in his corner Saturday. After the fight, Florian finalized his split with long-time trainer Mark DellaGrotte.
In particular, Florian has been working with the Montreal Wrestling Club, with the type of world-class wrestlers that took St. Pierre in a few years from a guy who had never wrestled in his life, to someone who is talked of as the best MMA-style wrestler in the game.
Florian said to expect major improvements in his wrestling game.
The real question is whether or not Florian can achieve the near impossible and finish Clay Guida. Guida has great wrestling and seemingly a bottomless gas tank, but he's got very little physical potential to develop a strong striking game with his short limbs and we've seen no hint of a submission game from him.
Florian is almost the polar opposite, a strong Muay Thai and jiu jitsu stylist, it will be easier for him to improve his wrestling than for Guida to improve his striking. But I would argue that it's easier for Guida to develop a good submission game than for Florian to become a really strong wrestler. Of the three aspects of MMA -- striking, submissions and takedowns -- mastering wrestling or judo seems to be the most difficult and take the longest.
And in a sporting MMA context, wrestling skills often trump the other two. Unless Florian can score a knock out or submit Guida, he'll likely lose a decision.
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I see this fight turning out a lot like Kenny-Joe Daddy. Guida has very limited striking (a recent example of this is the way he was beat up by Nate Diaz everytime they exchanged standing) and his only chance is to grind out a boring victory. I think there will be a scramble and Kenny will end up on top and he will do what he does and finish fights.
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
I don’t think the real question is whether Florian can finish him…
The real question is whether or not I’m going to have to hear about how Guida improved his striking… yet it’s still obviously horrible when it comes fight time and looks EXACTLY the same as it did in the past. Guida’s stand-up is horrific, and he always tells fans that it has improved substantially. It never does.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
This
how can you possibly call someones striking anything but horrible when Diegostands in front of you, backs you into a corner and tee’s off on you (without blocking) when you’re not even dazed…I’m pretty sure at one point Diego landed 3 straight clean uppercuts in a row, that’s ridiculous
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by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 8, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
It just upsets me how bad the guy is at striking… over and over and over.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 8, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, your life must be pretty damned awesome if that upsets you.
It’s not something I ever noticed tbh. He’s always just sort of dragging someone to the ground or holding onto them or slugging it out on the ground that I didn’t think that striking was a part of his gameplan. In the diego fight it looked like he was too busy eating shots.
It upsets me because I love the fact that Clay Guida can outpace EVERYONE… but he has nothing else. The Nate Diaz was the epitome of that. He couldn’t do a thing but hug Diaz to the floor.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 8, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
and diaz's striking isn't even good
I might add
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by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 8, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
what diaz fight isn’t awkward?
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by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 8, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
the kind that ends in a flex and double fingers
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Dec 8, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
strangely
i feel the same way… a style that aggravates, awesome.
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by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 8, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
I think people know what they're getting with Guida at this point.
I don’t even see what Jackson is going to be able to do to improve Guida. The man can’t strike, and I think it’s a bit too late for him to develop a sub game. This should be Florian’s night.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Dec 8, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder amazing submitting Guida really is
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like him, but his wrestling is outstanding. Still, I think of his fight with Huerta, and I think of Kenny’s fight with Stevenson… an RNC doesn’t seem THAT implausible, does it?
Guida was whipping Roger up until Roger knocked him silly and sunk in the choke.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
Right, and Florian has better striking and submissions than Huerta.
by JRN on Dec 8, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think he has more power then Huerta when it comes to striking.
Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit.
True....
Anderson isnt the hardest hitter and look at what he has done.
Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit.
I’d actually say that what Anderson has done is evidence that he IS a very hard hitter. Or maybe he’s just very accurate.
Anyway, my point is that even if Florian can’t drill Guida with a single knee like Huerta did, he should still be able to hit him far more consistently.
by JRN on Dec 9, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Guida has shown small hints of a submission game
He grabbed a heel hook against Tyson Griffin, and his fight record indicates that he finished guys with leg locks in his pre-UFC days.
Also, in his UFC debut he choked out Justin James, an opponent who was supposed to have the much better submission skills.
Is he going to employ such skills against Kenny? Clearly not, but I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s never shown any submission skills.
Against much better competition, it’s out the window at this point unless he improves.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 8, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
I like both these guys. I’m glad to hear that Kenny’s getting stronger though. He was always so quick and such good footwork that it didn’t seem to matter, but I was sure after all his talk that he was going to come out against BJ as bigger and stronger and he didn’t, he was the same pencil neck he was before. Will be interesting to see if he really is working the strength side.
Who is the stronger fighter here?
I don’t really see Florian shrugging off Guida against the fence. I think he should use that solid MT to keep distance on Clay and then he’ll probably be able to catch a wreckless/relentless Guida on a shot or in the clinch with something destructive.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
I've always thought that was a big weakness for Florian.
He relies on his MT now, but isn’t physically imposing at LW and doesn’t have the physicality to control someone in the clinch. Sherk, Griffin, Diego, and Maynard are all way too strong for him to handle like that, and it really limits him to being a distance/point-striker on the feet. That worked against a forward moving brawler style like Huerta, but against somebody with the pace and takedowns of Guida… win or lose, I don’t expect Kenny to have a fun night.
by pdl on Dec 8, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t believe Jackson is going to be focusing on Guida’s striking. I think what they’re going to do with him is basically what they did with Stevenson, focus on his strong suits which is his wrestling and teach him how to develop a better top game with submissions. Guida’s wrestling is the best in the LW division and he is sure to end up on top of anyone in the division not named Penn. His submission defense is really good as well, though it could use some work too.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Also, something I forgot to mention, Guida doesn’t so much need to develop a strong striking game so much as he needs to learn to set up his take downs with it.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Guida’s wrestling is the best in the LW division. No.
His pace plus his wrestling is his best weapon, but there are guys that could outwrestle him.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 8, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Leland, it’s an arguable point, but I haven’t seen a fight of Guida’s in the UFC where he has been outwrestled by anyone, despite his size disadvantage. Lots of people said he would get outwrestled by Sanchez because he was too small and because Diego had good wrestling, yet that didn’t happen.
I’d love to see him against Sherk and Maynard to really see how my opinion holds up.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Its arguable who has the best wrestling in the division, but you have to say that Guida’s is elite. I agree with you. There isn’t a single lightweight that has definitively better wrestling than Guida.
It isn’t arguable. Guida is a good wrestler, but he’s far from the best. His pace is what truly helps him. Sherk and Maynard would outwrestle him, and both guys have good cardio. The difference is Guida’s tenacious pace.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 9, 2009 7:55 AM EST up reply actions
he’s on his period
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Dec 8, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if it's not
the type of striking that might be important here. Circle and jab is probably not going to serve Guida all that well. I think Kenny will want to do damage in the clinch via elbows (hellbows?) and knees. I would recommend Guida should practice trying to stymie that attack with a defensive clinch and unleash a shot whenever they break apart, a la BJ Penn. This would help compensate for his lack of reach, plus if he decides to drop down for a single leg it’ll be there.
I can’t wait to see this fight, if Guida looks impressive and Diego can somehow pull off an upset things look great for Clay to finally get that well deserved title shot. To me Clay just needs to do what he’s always done push the pace, take Kenny down and work him over as long as he doesn’t get sloppy Florian will have very little to offer him as the fight goes on.
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