Dan Henderson Signs With Strikeforce
by Luke Thomas on Dec 7, 2009 4:36 PM EST
in MMA News
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I'm not entirely sure how they can afford him, but they've signed him:
After months of speculation, Dan Henderson has finally agreed to sign with Strikeforce. FanHouse has learned that the 12-year veteran, who was last seen knocking out Michael Bisping at UFC 100 in July, recently came to terms with the San Jose-based organization on a multi-fight agreement.
At this time, it is unknown when and where Henderson will make his debut for Strikeforce.
...
Recently, Henderson had publicly talked about being frustrated with the fact that he didn't receive a middleweight title shot following his victory over Bisping and that he was hoping for a bump in salary.
"I'm just hoping to get out there and fight again and get paid what I would like the get paid. I'm not asking to be the top-paid guy at out there at all," he told FanHouse at the last Strikeforce event.
"It's a little step up from my last pay check, but a lot less than a lot of other guys are getting paid," Henderson added when asked what kind of salary he was seeking.
Henderson is not a hugely popular figure, but has amassed some level of conscious recognition with casual fans. That's good news for Strikeforce as is his ability to fight in two weight classes. Given how thin the 205lbs division is in Strikeforce, Henderson is a helpful addition there while being hugely contributory to their middleweight division.
Several big fights here in both weight classes. At light heavyweight a fight with Mousasi is excellent while at middleweight Nick Diaz or Cung Le make sense as well.
I also wonder if Henderson's purse is tied to any future CBS appearances. Without having spoken to Strikeforce representatives yet, I wonder if they were able to afford Henderson by getting their television partner to chip in on the paycheck by greasing the wheels with guaranteed appearances in the national spotlight. Details coming.
And without having sat in on the negotiations personally, I also can't help but ponder how the fickle behavior of Anderson Silva contributed to Henderson's frustration. Joe Silva is the matchmaker, but Anderson Silva was never very receptive to the notion of a Henderson rematch and made his lack of desire to fight Henderson well known. Strikeforce has surely promised Henderson consistent activity and desired matchmaking.
[UPDATE]: Loretta Hunt adds some details:
Henderson could debut for Strikeforce as early as April on a tentatively planned CBS event, Sherdog.com has learned, and might face the promotion’s middleweight champion, Jake Shields, right out of the gate. Henderson, who also fights at light heavyweight, is being eyed for matchups against Strikeforce light heavyweight champion Gegard Mousasi and the world’s No. 1 heavyweight, Fedor Emelianenko, said a source with knowledge of the deal.
“Dan has always been motivated by the challenge of competing above his natural weight class, and he would certainly be honored to square off with Fedor at some point," said Crecy....
“Dan likes to be a maverick, and I think part of the attraction to Strikeforce was to be a part of something that broadens the growth of the sport within the U.S. and globally,” said Crecy. “The fact that Strikeforce offers a network television platform in CBS as well as a premium cable partner in Showtime was particularly appealing to him. It delivers an incredible opportunity for Dan to perform live before an audience of millions of present and future MMA fans. Also, (Strikeforce CEO) Scott Coker treated Dan with a great deal of respect and integrity throughout the negotiations, and that certainly affected his decision. Dan is very excited to be a part of the Strikeforce family."
[UPDATE] #2 - Dana White responds:
"Nothing's going to help Strikeforce," Dana said. "They have too many fighters under contract and not enough events. They can't keep some of their obligations to fighters already. Either they're going to start breaching contracts or paying fighters not to fight. It'll take a lot more than one guy to help them. Their whole business model is f****d. They're coming after UFC? Yeah, OK.[UPDATE] #3 - Henderson's business partner and manager, Aaron Crecy responds via Strikeforce press release:
"I could care less," he continued. "Here's the reality: If I wanted Henderson, he'd be in the UFC. It's not like, 'F***, Strikeforce beat me out.' He's been a free agent for a long time. If I wanted him, I would have signed him by now."
"I’d like to thank Dana (White) and the UFC for the opportunities they provided me and I wish them ongoing success. I’ll continue to watch their events and I hope they’ll tune in to my fights in Strikeforce. After all, I’m a true fan of our fantastic sport and would love only to see MMA continue to grow,"HT: mma.fanhouse.com
... "I’m very happy to be a part of Strikeforce and their partnership with CBS and Showtime… Strikeforce and its growing roster of world class talent will offer me many exciting fights and has the ability to bring many new fans from all around the world to mixed martial arts. I am grateful to [Strikeforce CEO] Scott Coker for the opportunity to help make this happen and for treating me with the utmost respect throughout our negotiations."
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Bummer
But ultimately, it’s good this means that he’ll fight again sometime soon.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Pretty much my feelings
Though I’d like him on UFC cards, I don’t think Hendo will be around much longer. Shields, Diaz, Le, Mousasi, King Mo (not for a while?) and—if it ever happens—Fedor, are not bad options for his last 3-5 fights. I’m a Hendo fan, and wish him well wherever he goes… but I did wanna see him wreck the Marquardt 2.0 hype train :P
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
surprised the UFC let this happen. they’re obviously worried that if they give in to his salary demands, that it’s a slippery slope from there. but still… i’m surprised they couldn’t work it out.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
Arlovski had to ride the bench for a year
then they extended his post-contract first refusal period for as long as legally possible. Henderson got off light.
They want Strikeforce to spend on Henderson.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Andrei only waited from March 08 when he fought O’brien and July when he fought Rothwell.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
Did Dana force Hendo on Strikeforce to break their bank or as a warning to other UFC fighters?
I don’t quit buy that this is going to break Strikeforce’s pay structure. First, if that was what Dana was attempting he saved Strikeforce a lot of money by pulling out of negotiations. More likely, once Dan refused to sign at terms the UFC wanted they decided to make an example of him: pulling out of negotiations, thus alerting Strikeforce to the fact he had no leverage; banning his company from UFC events.
As for Strikeforce I don’t see how we can compare this to Affliction. Affliction had two core problems with their business model: 1) they paid way too much, 2) they were depending on ppv revenue, which isn’t good when you have trouble selling 100,000 ppv.
But Strikeforce is probably not even looking to make a dollar on their CBS shows (which is were I imagine they’ll use Dan, much as they are using Fedor). They are using their television broadcasts to introduce themselves to an audience (and CBS is using it to have a cheap way to draw young males).
Since no one knows what Dan is making we’ll have to hazard a guess. I’m thinking something in the neighborhood of 200,000 to show and 100,000 to win with a 200,000 bonus being thrown in by CBS (they seem to want to make this work) if he fights on their station. Strikeforce might have also sweetened the pot by guaranteeing him 2 CBS fight spots and some prime ad real estate for Cinch Gear.
So with Fedor and Dan on the card payroll might hit $2 mil for the next CBS card. Add in expenses for the broadcast, stadium, etc. We had this discussion awhile back and Michael Rome came up with the high-end figure of $4 mllion. So $6 million is what Strikeforce has to cover, max. They get $1 mil for them gate (actually $2 mil but half goes to m-1), and CBS is probably paying them at least $4 mil-6 mil so it they could be working at the break-even point. Which at this point is all they want.
Well CBS paid 500k for EliteXC shows, I don’t see how they would pay 4-6 mil for Strikeforce shows.
Also the gate for Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Rogers was about 1 mln, not 2. With M-1 taking half of it, it’s only 500k.
http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl
A couple of points:
1) CBS didn’t pay $500,000 per EliteXC show (they better have not since Elite’s last payroll was 1.3 mil) that is the rate that supposedly they receive from Showtime. Also, since they have to use Showtimes productions staff they are probably giving a lot of that money back.
2) Apparently Elite had a different deal, since what they were doing was a straight time buy. They had to cover a certain amount of time spots and then would keep what else they could get. http://mmapayout.com/2008/02/inside-exc-cbs-deal.html
The Strikeforce CBS deal seems different in that CBS is running the broadcast portion of the deal.
3) For a Saturday Night Fight CBS is generating at least $100,000 per buy for each 30 sec spot (especially when you consider who the targeted audience is) which would over $6 mil in generated revenue. Of course the station eats up a lot of it, but $3 mil + an extra mil for Fedor and Dan doesn’t seem unrealistic if CBS plans on using this to bring in new younger viewers. Although I bet their plan is to increase ad revenue with better ratings in the future while also lowering payroll. The bigger names would eventually go to ppv where the real money is made. (although how this will work when everyone is used to seeing your stars for free – I don’t know)
4) I took the $2 mil number since that is what the first Affliction’s gate was and I assumed a now better known Fedor along with Hendo would draw at least that much interest.
5) All this is why the UFC is staying out of network tv. The ratings they will be expected to get would mean they would have to put their bigger stars on, depriving them of ppvs where every show generates $15-25 mil in revenue compared to $5 or 6 mil on a network broadcast. This the UFC cannot afford since they are making $75 million a year in dividend payments.
6) Signing Hendo also tells us that Stikeforce will be back on CBS.
I hope to see him face Mousasi soon so we will know exactly how good Mousasi is. I’m not interested in seeing him face any MWs at Strikeforce.
You’re more interested in him facing one LHW than Shields, Lawler, Le, Diaz, Smith, Radach, Jacare etc…?
Win, murder, murder, murder, murder, win.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 7, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I really don’t see positives outweighing negatives of this signing for strikeforce, but screw it, onward to mediocrity Decision Dan!
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
mediocrity? really?
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni
I calls em as I sees em.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 7, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
you need some glasses
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 7, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
You need to watch every fight before the Bisping KO.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 7, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t say he sucked, did I? The Hendo love is oozing in here today. :)
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 7, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
“I really don’t see positives outweighing negatives of this signing for strikeforce, but screw it, onward to mediocrity Decision Dan!”
Positives for who?… the ufc? I see a ton of positives for fans and for SF.
Manhoef vs. Hendo would be sick.
Manhoef vs. Hendo would be Hendo laying on him for three rounds, and I would pray that Melvin could put him to sleep. And what I’m saying is this…
Pros: A fighter that had been on the ultimate fighter and most fans may recognize. Instant contender in MW and LHW divisions.
Cons: Huge price, not always exciting, not a huge name.
Really, if SF and Showtime have deep enough pockets, it’s not terrible, but the deal, from a business standpoint, looks more like the UFC letting Strikeforce pay for an overpriced fighter.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 7, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yet, from a business perspective, we know nothing about the deal. I think Coker is a smart enough business man to work this the right way.
We know it's for a hell of a lot of money
Dana wouldn’t make this play if it wasn’t and Dan wouldn’t sign for less out of spite.
It’s actually a whole lot of common sense. Do you REALLY think the UFC just let Dan, a former TUF coach walk out the door because…?
And c’mon man, Coker teamed up with M-1 for Fedor. He’s a smart business man, but he’s obviously taking some risky moves with big possible pay offs.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 7, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I REALLY do. Dana himself said he lowered his offer when negotiations stalled. Hendo may just want another championship to his name and might be looking down the line at all the possibilities in SF… oh yeah, but neither of us knows jack so its all speculation.
What’s a whole lot of money? If they put him on a card with Fedor, you don’t think they’ll recoup their investment?
Well, I do think Hendo will have taken a price cut because of the benefits of being in SF, but regardless, I’m thinking he’s still wanting over 100k to show, and I truly don’t think he’s worth the investment.
BUT
If they do set him up with Shields, he’s gonna KTFO him, and then Hendo will likely be far more marketable. I’m certain this is similar to what SF is hoping, that way theres some good upside to signing Hendo.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 7, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t forget that he’s a lot more known internationally than a lot of ufc guys and he has a ton of fans in Japan.
I think he fits perfectly with SF/Dream/M-1’s international flavor.
Putting him on a SF/Dream card in Japan is definately in their best interests at some point.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 7, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
I don't follow
How do you know that showtime paid for an “overpriced” fighter? Has anyone seen what he’s going to get? I think you’re basing that on DW’s statement that Hendo was being unreasonable. OK, I guess I see how you arrived at the "overpriced’ conclusions since DW has a reputation for being a straight shooter when it comes to discussing negotiations in public.
If Dan wanted more than he was getting paid, that is in my opinion over priced, unless it was another 25k to his base pay or something. lol at so many people thinking I’m a Dana White dingleberry.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 7, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
if u want shields in a coma
by cagefightonacid on Dec 7, 2009 3:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Personally, I think this is great. Mousasi, Cung Le, Jake Shields, Robbie Lawler…good for Strikeforce.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
Wouldn’t count on Cung and Shields is probably gone after his next fight.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
But that next fight might very well be against Hendo. Although I doubt they want to put Jake back on CBS in a 5 rounder again.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
Yeah
I think it’s a bad fight. Hendo is a big 185 and Shields is a smallish one. If they want to send him to the UFC with a loss, sure, great fight to book. Then again, he could shock the world and turtle fuck Dan for 25 minutes.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Oddly enough, I think it’s a better fight, though marginally. Mayhem is more accustomed to fighting larger 185er’s and has more competent striking than Shields. I’d still take Hendo almost 10/10.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
that would be a shock
I don’t see Shields doing anything to Hendo for 25 minutes
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
So we agree?
Blackout:
he could shock the world
Rober Downey Sr.:
that would be a shock
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 7, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh god blackout please don’t start referring to yourself in the third person, you sound like Frank Mir.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 4:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh shit
Or that guy from Heavy.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
I know right, lol
Trying to act like it sounds better
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
I doubt Cung Le would ever agree to fight Dan, but other match-ups sound awesome
http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl
I really expected Dan and the UFC to work this out, but there’s a couple good fights for Dan in Strikeforce. Mousasi first and foremost hopefully. But Le, Shields or Diaz would all be good. Dan’s Olympic credentials may ring a bell with casual viewers, and he’ll get more push from Strikeforce as one of their few elite fighters.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Dec 7, 2009 12:17 PM EST reply actions
Gegard has already said he needs to make a lot more money to fight Hendo. We’ll see how that goes.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Wussasi? He better not duck Dan. People are already talking about him like he’s the #3 or 4 LHW in the world. Personally I think this fight would be really close, and I’d probably pick Dan, though I’m a lot bigger fan of Gegard.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Dec 7, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Mousasi would fight Dan, just not for 40/40
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
Ouch. Yeah I actually thought Gegard was pulling more than that.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Dec 7, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. And I was just playin’, I didn’t realize Gegard was only making 40/40.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Dec 7, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Too late
I already told him what you said.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Nice addition for SF, but it all depends on how much they paid him. I personally felt the UFC should have paid Dan what he wanted, but he’s not a draw, so I guess the UFC probably felt it’s better for SF to absorb Dan’s salary. SF’s television partner must have had part in the deal, because otherwise I don’t know how they could afford Hendo.
I love me some Sexyama!
Did Dan spill his drink or did he get a “favor” from that ghost hand coming out of the right side of the pic?
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 1:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Depends who lands their loopy assed overhand right first.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
by Ubernoober on Dec 7, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Do me a favour, Luke
Plz change the pic anchoring the post to my own take below; my old D2X fudged up the colours with JPG shots (which I had to send to ESPN for speeds sake); the conversion from the RAW file looks a lot better.
by VikingPhotography on Dec 7, 2009 12:39 PM EST reply actions
This is DW’s secret master plan. Pay hendo under the table to go take out shields, mousasi and fedor.
by MikeD32 on Dec 7, 2009 12:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
But
He wants all three of those guys after their contracts are up.
The real secret plan is to have Showtime pay our of their nose for an old man.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Ducking a Bisping rematch IMO. The Kang fight set the alarm bells rining.
by An0nymous on Dec 7, 2009 12:50 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Your Opinion...
Is apparently worse that your spelling. Are you serious? Ducking Bisping? Hardy har har…
by teestroyer on Dec 7, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I take it detecting sarcasm is not a strength of yours?
by soxrule!35 on Dec 7, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It’s hard to call really. Most of the times it’s you’re average smart boy making a sarcastic comment, but once in a while…it’s a moron. You can’t let your guard down.
10/24
by spectaa on Dec 7, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Cyber-Sarcasm 101
If one wanted to state something on-line while conveying sarcasm, one should add a :) or a :) to the end. Adding an IMO suggests sincerity. In this case, the seemingly sincere statement was stupid. So, I called it as such. Of course, it didn’t help my cause that I typed a “that” rather than a “than” while poking fun at another person’s spelling/typing lapse. Luckily, I am good at detecting irony no less than sarcasm.
StrikeForce
Has basically unleashed the Black Plague on their MW Division. As you can see from the gif below, Hendo doesn’t play around.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Dec 7, 2009 12:54 PM EST reply actions 9 recs
Someone should change Bisping to Coker.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
That’s great. I love how Bisping comes walking out smiling like he’s happy to see him again. Doesn’t remember a thing about there last fight.
Hahaha
It is pretty great.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Guess Dan really did scramble his brains, then…
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Dec 7, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Hendo vs. Overeem!
I have mixed feelings about this. I like Strikeforce, because I think they can push the envelope in terms of getting free shows on TV. On the other hand, I was interested in a Silva rematch, no matter how long it could have taken.
Oh well. As I said, if Belfort beats Silva, then there’ll be a situation where the Strikeforce MW Champ (as he’ll become) will have a W over the UFC heavyweight champ. Then if only Nog becomes HW champ….
I agree it's not likely
figure there’s what, a 20% chance?
Though
That’s like 18% higher than most anyone else.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Henderson is going to fight for every belt SF has.
its gonna be a bitch to cut to lw though
The smart thing to do is have him fight Shields first.
Strikeforce needs to get that belt away from Shields; they can’t afford to ahve one of their titles tied up by someone that boring.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
And he’s most likely leaving, so yeah..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
i was thinkin...
Since he’s more of a natural WW, and Hendo has fought at LHW it won’t hurt Jake so much…
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
There’s some good fights for Dan in SF but I hope the part about him fighting Fedor was a joke.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 1:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I’m betting he only fights Fedor if he wins the MM and LHW belt. A champion vs. champion match. And shit, if he beats Shields, Jacare, and Mousasi I say he earned it.
Don't know if there's time for all that
Fedor has two fights left on his deal.
Also, are you off the bandwagon after yesterday?
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Two fights left and then he ain’t leaving. There sticking to co-promoting.
And what do you mean off the bandwagon? i’ve been a Saints fan since way back.
Don't sweat it
Lots of Saints fans confuse the two. :)
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 7, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hendo is a nice improvement to SF while the UFC’s MW div. is getting thinner.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
Its nice to see alot more talk of the possible good matchups that can be had from Hendo’s deal with Strikeforce versus the “OMG UFC IZ TEH GOAT AT MAKING OTTER PPL PAY 4 HAZ BINZ DANA WITE IS DA JENIUS” shit alot of people try to peddle.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
Well at least people seem to have the good sense to wait until they see what the terms of the deal are before jumping to outlandish conclusions. If you were to believe what D.W. was saying, then most likely they did pay way too much for him…but we all know Dana’s pretty good at getting “information” out there to the mma media and having them parrot it as fact.
I think SF is a much better place for Hendo because there are a lot more interesting match ups. I’m a Hendo fan and I’d rather see him run through the top guys in SF than fight Marquardt, Vitor, or Silva to be honest.
But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a stick - Proverbs 10:13
Kinda sucks he’s not in the UFC, but what can you do. He might go back one day. He should probably blitz every MW they have at Strikeforce. While it might be fun to see him fight Shields, Diaz, or Cung Le, I really don’t see them being all that competitive with him either. Mousassi at LHW is another story. And I guess I could see Strikeforce wanting to sacrifice Henderson at the altar of Fedor.
Dana,
Here’s the reality: If you could care less, then you must care that Strikeforce got Dan.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Dec 7, 2009 1:57 PM EST reply actions
With Henderson being a coach on TUF…. Dana cares.
by Nick Thomas on Dec 7, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Life is more complex than that my friend. Some wouldn’t mind taking a small salary deduction if they had more flexibility and better perks.
That “some” almost certainly doesn’t include a guy that said he wouldn’t take less salary. Dana said goodbye and he took what he could get. Of course he’s going to make the best of a bad situation. You want him to come out and say “I didn’t get what I wanted, Dana had his way”? Come on.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
He didn’t care enough to pay Dan what he thought he was worth.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 5:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He still cares enough about it to mouth off like a butthurt scorned lover in the press.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Dec 7, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Michael Bisping must be relieved now that his highlight reel KO loss will be erased from UFC history.
by Nick Thomas on Dec 7, 2009 2:12 PM EST reply actions 17 recs
lol
rec’d
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 7, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
What KO?
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Dec 7, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Dan wanted to be the big fish in a little pond instead of a little fish in a biiiiig pond.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Dec 7, 2009 2:12 PM EST reply actions
Oh yeah, the money had nothing to do with it.
by John Nash on Dec 7, 2009 2:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
But...
…Only one of them was street certified.
by The_Gaijin on Dec 7, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Quite frankly in terms of exposure, mainstream attention and marketing – SF should be the one crying.
Except Kimbo in Strikeforce = bad for the sport so they would be getting murdered left and right for it. See EliteXC. Only the UFC had the fanbase, hype machine, and credibility to make Kimbo fighting for them legit, and not some freak show. Though, even the UFC is getting some backlash now from the media.
He’s trying to trick people into creating some parallel dynamic that Kimbo and Hendo were somehow traded for one another. He honestly thinks we’re all that naive.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
You mean pandaboy? It really was light statement, all in fun, but people are out for blood today. I will take a step back…. =)
Nobody is out for blood
This has been a pretty thoughtful and even handed thread, but you’re in celebratory mode like Zuffa’s gonna eat it on this one. I don’t think this effects the balance of the MMA force nearly as much as you seem to.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 7, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Elite – Kimbo = main event HW and the fighter they booked the entire organization around.
UFC – Kimbo = a complimentary attraction to other legitimate fighters.
While the UFC is using him as a big part of the draw, there’s some other subtle and non-subtle differences going on there. He was 3rd from the top of the card on a free TUF Finale, not the over-run main eventer.
by The_Gaijin on Dec 7, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess we will see how they use him next. Where he is on the linup really doesn’t matter as long as he is televised. But did you notice the attendance? Kimbo was on the card and the attendance was not great. 2K max arena only filled 1K+. Maybe they would have sold more if Kimbo was the main event? Makes you wonder if you are a promoter, doesn’t it? =)
Which in hindsight was a mistake by Elite. Kimbo going to the UFC is a win-win for everyone.
1) For Strikeforce they are trying to legitimize themselves by offering quality fighters. Paying Kimbo $500,000 and having him as the main event would not move them any closer into acceptance as a true #2 and competitor.
2) For the UFC? They are already #1, so they use Kimbo and all his street certified fame fame and not have to be worried as being labeled a joke.
3) and Kimbo get’s more exposure in the UFC and gets labeled a legitimate fighter.
Everybody’s happy.
Exactly…UFC has already been legitimized in the eyes of sports/mma fans. They can have Kimbo and the storyline of him proving himself on the “ultimate proving ground” and pull in all the extra eyes that want to see him without coming off like some gimmicky promotion. If he wins – he’s proven he’s a legit fighter, if he loses – well UFC is where the big boys play and this “street fighter” couldn’t hang.
SF/EXC, etc. would have to pay him a lot more, use him in much higher profile fights and would lose legitimacy because he’s a main eventer than everyone knows is a very limited mma fighter. Using Kimbo in their case means they need him to win all of his fights.
And at 25k for that last fight, you can safely say they’ve recouped their investment. Can you say the same about Hendo and SF? Well? Can you?
Why are they mutually exclusive again?
It wasn’t a trade.
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Hendo is a legend and could help strikeforce however I just dont see it. He isnt the most markeable guy around and the UFC MW champ beat him. So imagine if Hendo becomes the MW Strikeforce champion all the UFC needs to do is remind their champion owned their champion.
And furthermore does anyone else see Jake Shields totally outworked very bad.
I'd bet that Clinch Gear/CBS exposure
Has an awful lot to do with this.
UFC banning Dan’s company probably didn’t help negotiations.
Fning lame that Dana blasts Dan Hendrson on the way out the door. What a shitty boss/ambassador Dana White really is.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Are you surprised by his actions? If so then that would be your fault. This is everyday typical Dana White.
by AintNoSunshine on Dec 7, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
He's bitter
And dare I say, rightfully so. They supposedly made him a very reasonable offer and Dan said he wanted to stay, so why not stay? Dana is never going to be diplomatic. He thinks it sucks even though he says otherwise.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Dare I say, he didn’t blast him, he’s just saying that he didn’t lose out. He closed the chapter on signing Dan long before SF signed him, so he had already bid good riddance to him. At this point, he probably assumed that either;
a: SF would probably pick him up, or
b: He’d come crawling back for less money.
Either way he was just affirming that he’s not now afraid that SF is suddenly going to make a run at the UFC just because they got Hendo. Of course you have to get used to his rhetoric to understand that. Until then it seems like Dana’s blasting everyone.
I know Dana like to say SF has no $$
but I think that the investors understand that in order to compete with the UFC, they need to invest in payroll up front. Not just getting a top guy, but several. Whats a few million up front on payroll if your aspirations are to be a billion dollar company like the UFC?
Strikeforce is a better run company
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
How?
With their newfound upper-tier spending, can you exhibit how they’re more profitable than the aforementioned? I’ve said all along that they shouldn’t go down this path, but it’s too late now.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Okay
1. They haven’t bought up several smaller orgs and burnt their startup capital like EXC
2. They aren’t overpaying fighters like Affliction did
3. They have contracts with Showtime and CBS and have every one of their events televised to the masses
4. Have been around making a profit for almost 5 years now (in MMA) after making money on kickboxing for much longer than that
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I never did get that, how do you spend that much on a website unless you’re amazon or YouTube?
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 5:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
1. You don’t remember who acquired EXC?
2. Not to the same degree, but some of these deals remain to be seen. They’re ramping up.
3. So did EXC and it’s mostly beneficial to CBS/Showtime. Bad example.
4. Not doing what they’re doing now.
I’m not declaring their death, but it’s waaaaay too early to say they’re doing it better than the others. Matt Forte had a good first year, too.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
1. For pennies on the dollar, iirc.
2. Not even in the same ballpark – $800k to Sylvia, +$500k to AA??
3. No argument there, although they have a more stable roster and aren’t depending on a 35year old internet street fighter to pull the company at all times.
4. Hard to say – they’re obviously paying more for guys like Fedor and other bigger names; but from all accounts they did an excellent gate in Chicago and they complement their big shows by doing what they used to do and running profitable, smaller shows.
I agree it’s far too early to tell either way, but it seems like they’re at least trying to learn from past errors.
Sponsorships and CBS
I think Strikeforce is using the Sponsorship opportunity of CBS to their fighters to get them to sign for smaller monies.
For a guy like Dan Henderson (who owns Clinch Gear) that is probably attractive.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Really?
Fighters see it as an added incentive to get big sponsorship bucks. They don’t go “Oh, well I’ll take less for my talents from the promoter”. At least, I’m heavily inclined to believe this.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Missed point
Sponsors are likely willing to pay a fighter more to get CBS exposure as opposed to PPV exposure.
More sponsorship money= less strikeforce salary compensation
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Missed point?
How ironic.
More sponsorship money= less strikeforce salary compensation
The exact point I seeked to argue.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 7, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hypothetical
UFC is offering fighter A a contract of 25 to show and 25 to win. Plus the fighter is able to get 15 in sponsorships for a UFC PPV.
Strikeforce can offer the same fighter 20 to show and 20 to win and will ultimately have the better compensation package if the CBS advertisting exposure allows the fighters sponser to pay 25 for the opportunity to be showcased on CBS.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I didn’t need a hypothetical, it’s implied. Fighters seek to maximize their income, not do favors for a promoter.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Agreed
My point is that Strikeforce doesn’t need to outbid the UFC.
CBS is more attractive to sponsors than PPV is.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Not necessarily true
Sponsors value paying consumers. Each set of eyes on a PPV is a set of eyes that has disposable income and is willing to spend it on fighting/fight lifestyle.
Point is, until I see some figures, it’s arguable where fighters are making more sponsorship dollars. You never see a fighter touting that they made more on CBS than they did on Spike/PPV.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 7, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree it’s far too early to tell either way, but it seems like they’re at least trying to learn from past errors.
I just think it’s a delicate balance and I don’t want to see them go off the deep end. Not declaring their demise, by any means, just anxious about some of the things they’re doing and what it could mean for the future.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Yeah, if they signed Henderson to a $300k deal I will be pretty concerned about the direction they’re going. I really don’t think I believe the figures D.W. was throwing out there…but you’d think if they were smart enough to stay away from Tito at his asking price, they’d also be clever enough to run a cost-benefit analysis on what Dan brings to the organization.
It’s possible they somehow thought he was worth a huge contract. It had to be pretty close, since that seems to be the sticking point. Don’t think his pride was damaged enough that he’d take significantly less than he was asking of Dana..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
but isnt that how the UFC got big? They signed all the Pride guys.
Strikeforce is never going to be competitive building stars from the ground up. They need some names for their stars to beat and lend their titles credibility.
No
The UFC got big by signing all of the Pride guys?
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
How did the Pride guys make the UFC credible?
The trolls on the internet still claim pride is superior, and they aren’t the one’s that are making the UFC money.
by Phildo on Dec 7, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it gave the UFC all but one of the #1s in each weight class. Thats why the champions clause is so important to them.
Acquiring pride turned the UFC from a promotion into a league.
by ryanwk628 on Dec 7, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
BJ Penn not PRIDE
GSP not PRIDE
A. Silva not PRIDE
Lyoto not PRIDE
Lesnar not PRIDE
The UFC acquired a tape library with the PRIDE purchase, just about every fighter they signed had moved on by then.
Guillotine.
Come on, some really great PRIDE fighters came over
Rampage
Big Nog
Shogun
Hendo
Cro Cop (didn’t pan out, but has been used as best they could)
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Dec 7, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Cro Cop voluntarily left Pride prior to the acquisition.
The UFC masterminded the move and stole Pride’s “top HW draw”, eventually forcing Pride to go under (if you believe the manga).
Hmm..
Affliction was credible. Soooo…
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Great point.
Youre right. Its impossible to compete with the UFC. Lets all bow down to their brand and hug Dana’s giant nuts because he is the only one with a successful business model for mma and hes not telling anyone his secrets. I cant argue with a post that uses as many periods as words. Nope nope nope.
Just awful
Don’t have a temper tantrum because you’re not making sense. Who the fuck is talking about Dana? We’re talking about the acquisition of PRIDE fighters, and if you’re totally incapable of making the point you’re driving at, just leave the conversation. If this Dana nut-hugging shit is your go-to, these comments are much more fruitful in pursuit of your Sherdog purple belt. Did you watch MFC and K-1 back to back live and join in on the Night Crew? Yeah, Dana’s balls are fucking delicious. Bush-league…
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 7, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And Im the one who threw a "temper tantrum"?
my point (see my other comments) was that the knock on SF is that they have one decent guy in each division and a bunch of no ones. Acquiring a top 5 guy gives their promotion credibility because their fights are now meaningful because they pit top guys against each other. This appeals to fans and will help their numbers. If anyone is to beat Dan, its huge for the entire division in SF because it bumps one of their guys way up in the rankings.
But I didnt expect to start a serious thread in response to: “Hmm.. Affliction was credible. Soooo…” Very insightful fan commentary. What SBN is all about right there.
I like how you decided to not even talk about Affliction in your response, or even Pride. Also, your way of personally insulting not only the person but the website is a really good display of “serious” responses. The sarcasm is a really good tool for your own “very insightful fan commentary.” Totally what SBN is all about, you go man!
Why would I respond to what is clearly a sarcastic comment with anything but a sarcastic comment? And I dont see how I was attacking the web site. My point in bringing up SBN was to note the irony of the more-hard-core-than-thou user who awarded me a “Sherdog purple belt.”
If youre going to respond to a comment, contribute something to the discussion, say something funny or at least use more words than grammatical symbols.
Sarcasm
The last refuge of modest and chaste-souled people when the privacy of their soul is coarsely and intrusively invaded.
by pdl on Dec 7, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
I can award Sherdog belts??
Then congratulations!
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Dan isnt needed in the Octagon to be quite honest. The MW division will be just fine with Vitor and Nate. Dan isnt going to see success vs Mousasi and Fedor like he would vs Nate or Vitor
I disagree. The UFC’s MW division is an unpolished turd that just got a little bit shittier. There has, for a long, long time, been a dearth of talent in the MW division in the UFC and in general in MMA. Some of the talent in 170 needs to migrate to MW, instead of the other way around (especially since the guys who drop to 170 aren’t really having much success).
I disagree with that unpolished statement. Regardless of who is polished or not nobody poses a true threat to Anderson at 185. But everyone under him pose interesting match ups for each other. If Hendo beats Shields at 185 who is there to challenge him. If he goes to fight Mousasi he just took out the Strikeforce 185 Champ. Wants to take the 205 champ ou to go to Hw. He is just winning and vacating titles.
by AintNoSunshine on Dec 7, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Dana White from:
“Strikeforce have no fighters, they have nobody for Fedor to fight,” White said. "They’re a small time show; they’re trying to act like they have something.
to:
“Nothing’s going to help Strikeforce,” Dana said. “Strikeforce have too many fighters under contract and not enough events.”
=\
by Nick Thomas on Dec 7, 2009 2:41 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Why can't Dana be diplomatic?
What is wrong with 2 strong MMA orgs?
More job opportunities for fighters. More room for growth,and to entice top level athletes to train. More content for the fans.
What’s the actual downside?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I think this is silly
In what other market does an organization cheer on a direct competitor? Dana’s personality can annoy you, but his stance is good business. You want him to dance around a campfire with Coker?
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Vince McMahon wasn't nice to WCW
and he crushed them, even with their billionaire owner, and bought them for pennies on the dollar. I know some MMA fans hate the comparison, but as a business model, there’s something to be learned.
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
Did you guys really not get that he meant they don’t have any fighters with a big name like Chuck or Brock?
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 5:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I read the first one as them not having anyone good and the second one as them having too many guys under contract.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi
CBS in April
So if Dan makes 250k and Fedor got what 300k right there is a 500k. How much can the rest of the card cost 500k to 750K I don’ t think that’s to much for Strikeforce.
M1
Is only involved in the Fedor fights. Since Strikeforce is running 20ish shows per year. I doubt if M1 is really that much of a financial burden.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
20ish?
Don’t run the number up by talking about Challenger cards. We’re talking about main-card talent.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Splitting them then its about
8 main card shows
10-14 challangers cards
Ufc does about 12 UFC’s and about 10-12 FN cards
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
In what year
Did the UFC do 10-12 FN cards?
Ahem...
Eight main card shows? The show on the 19th will be their fifth of the year. Way off mang..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
They have averaged 2 cards per month since the April expansion. Coker said he figured on doing 16-20 cards per year when he aquired EXC’s remains. So that is where I was speculating on their event output.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I don't care what he's figuring
Use quantifiable figures. Five this year is a verified statistic. Coker also wants to buy a 40 foot yacht made of chocolate, but I’m not going to tout it as a stat.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
LOL, it wasn’t even a complete year, so those numbers don’t mean much. Strikeforce was on the bench for 4 months or so.
What the fuck are you talking about?
It means everything, it’s what’s happening now. Maybe you’re not following the conversation. He offered up eight as a quantifiable number. They didn’t do eight, they did five. It’s science.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Exactly what I said above
Strikeforce has averaged 2 shows per month since the EXC expansion in April.
That would be 24 shows over the course of a year.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Not even the number in question
But okay, let’s just boost one end and drag down the other. Shrug…
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
He offered up eight as a quantifiable number. They didn’t do eight, they did five. It’s science.
While I understand your point, I don’t think he’s far off in offering the 8 as a number where they did five on a “pro-rated” basis.
Sigh..
This is getting weird.
aaronb:
Strikeforce is running 20ish shows per year
Blackout612:
Don’t run the number up by talking about Challenger cards. We’re talking about main-card talent
aaronb:
8 main card shows
I have no idea what all of you guys are going on about.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
If they ran 5 shows in 2009 - starting from April...
Then I don’t think it’s insane to posit they’d be running ~8 shows in a full calendar year.
They could run FIFTY
They have run five. Enough with the semantics and conjecture..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Dude...
I don’t get what you’re going on this rant about. They sat on the sidelines for FOUR months and basically did a reboot in April and started running “main event” shows.
Nice try in setting up some outlandish – “they could run a million” argument…no one is making that one nor should they.
Semantics and conjecture? On a calendar year, it’s extremely likely and they’d be doing 8 shows. If you don’t understand what people are getting at I don’t know how to help you – but getting all hyperbole on the situation isn’t constructive.
Actually
It’s an Anchorman joke, so whatever…
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
What is wrong with 2 strong MMA orgs?
Nothing…unless you’re Dana White and your job is too single handedly destroy all threatening MMA Promoters and make the UFC the NFL of the sport.
Are you one of those dude which doesn’t want MMA to have one day in the future one huge org with all the best fighters fighting against each others ? Or maybe you believe in the Boxing model.
One big org will never really work as a model
There will have to be some sort of Co-promotion for that to happen. Especially as the sport growns and more top level athletes try to make a living at the sport.
Saying that we only want the UFC to survive is like saying I will only support Don King represented boxers.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
ThHe best should fight the best man, one big organization never working? Have you ever heard of the NBA, NFL, hell or even FIFA?
The best athletes need to be in the same organization or else the athletes aren’t competing, the organizations are.
Sure enough, its great business for fans and fighters but the sport loses out if there isn’t a single organization. I am a UFC supporter, I love Strikeforce too. However, none of it compares to Fedor v Brosnar. And if you say the NFL-type model is a bad thing, I just don’t understand your point considering the success of football/basketball/etc.
Wouldn’t the comparable to FIFA be some overarching body/organization that both the UFC, Strikeforce and other organization of the world were members? (I’ll admit my futbol knowledge is a bit wanting) Something like….WAMMA but with credibility? lol
Except MMA isn't a team sport
Boxing is likely the inevitable model.
Bob Arum
Don King
Golden Boy
Goosen Tudor
Gary Shaw
All have guys under contract. Those guys have to agree to fight each other. The absolute power of one guy controlling the whole landscape of MMA just isn’t something that will last forever.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I'd argue pro wrestling is closer
Boxing promoters will actually work together when both can make money. As the Fedor negotiations showed, UFC won’t do that, ever.
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
The problem is about how much money can people make.
Dana will work with people if it will make him money. He worked with pride. Working with M1 would cost Dana money, because they would be giving Fedor more money that he was goin to bring in.
That is correct
I won’t disagree. I think Dana was right to walk away from M-1’s demands. But the point remains, there’s a history of boxing promoters working together. Not so much with UFC.
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
Because the boxing promoters can make each other money.
you can’t say Dana doesn’t have a history of working with people who will help make him money because he hasn’t turned down that opportunity yet.
And let’s not forget the last time Dana worked with another org. (Pride) they fucked him.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 5:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It will if the UFC maintains its own singular model. Dana won’t be there forever, but Dana doesn’t make fights per se. Joe Silva in his job as a matchmaker, under advisement of others, make the fights. The Zuffa management model is different than the one of boxing.
Plus in your case Strikeforce would develop the same model anyway since they have one guy there too making the fights
The model where the UFC does 50-75 million per card in revenue
But pays out 2-5 million in fighter purses cannot last. At some point guys will leave for greener pastures. (Mayweather/Paquiao)
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I think we are talking about different issues, I agree that the UFC and SF should scale pay upwards. SF also pays a comparable amount to its fighters. Therefore I still think the UFC should pay its fighters more, but that will come with growth in the sport.
Also, thanks to company competition Dan is forced to fight SF people instead of Anderson Silva, in a similar consequence to promoters in Boxing not making big fights ( Bob Arum or whoever). In essence, if the UFC were the only organization with better pay, it would be best for the sport (better than 2 orgs)
Opportunities
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
You need some competition in order to keep everything fair.
More high paying orgs will also provide more opportunities for fighters to make a good living.
If the sport is going to grow, guys are going to have to be able to support themselves on fight purses.
1 organization and indentured servitude isn’t the best model for MMA grownth.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Again, why does the NFL and other big organizations work? Are the NY Giants on indentured servitude??? The Red Sox players sure seem undernourished.
MMA is a growing sport and big organizations aren’t intrinsically associated with dictatorships due to monopolies. Different organizations could help with growth, but the end product of an NFL of sorts is the best possible outcome,and the UFC is the only org that can handle that.
Plus I am sure that the early NFL was hardly a well paying institution for athletes.
No
NFL,NBA,MLB have collectively bargained contracts between the leagues and the Player unions.
Plus the NFL/NBA/MLB is more like 30 seperate organizations competing for players/figherts.
The UFC would be like the Giants playing with themselves.
Not an apt comparison.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Good point, but that’s getting specific. What I mean is that while there aren’t any teams, big orgs can find ways to function. If you consider each fighter as a team in the NFL then it works better. If you don’t, there is still a need for an org that oversees all other orgs (an org bigger than the UFC and Strikeforce) which is still one big organization and one I would gladly accept.
Still; there is a need for a single organization and no proof that big organizations devolve into promoter-competition or that two separate orgs are better than one
Where are you getting this 50-75 mil per card figure? Because it’s not correct.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 5:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What would be a correct estimate then?
Live gate+PPV+Advertising=?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
No idea, really, but what I understand
is that of PPV revenue, about half goes to the distributor (Comcast/DirecTV) and the other half goes to the producer. $50 per PPV at 500k buys is $25mil, so $12.5mil for Zuffa. Live gates are harder for me to estimate, sometimes they’re done in 2k stadiums, other times more like 10k? And I have no clue what the average seats costs. But I would guess $500k-$1mil/show in gate? No clue, really. Anyone?
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
We had this discussion awhile ago
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/10/23/1097480/400000-buys-and-a-nearly-two
Depends on where it’s held but most gates are $2-4 million.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
Kool, thanks.
I was trying to work out the numbers without a frame of reference, but I see it outlined in some other threads after some searching.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I don’t think they’re comparable. People refer to MMA as UFC. Nobody says they’re going to order the Bob Arum on Saturday.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi
Except MMA isn’t a team sport
Tell Fitch, Swick, and Koscheck that.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
Why, he has never refused to fight someone.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
I have heard Swick and Koscheck both say if it was for a title they would have to deal with the situation then and there. I think Swick even said he would fight either of them if it was for the belt. Jones on the other hand won’t even be questioned about it. He said no way, no how, it’s not even a question, there is simply no possibility he would even consider fighting anyone from Greg Jackson’s camp, more specifically Rashad and Jardine because they are his brothers.
Sorry, he Jason Bourned me.
I don’t mind 2 or 3 promotions at all. I like variety and an alternative in MMA Shows. This is a sport that is not meant for 1 league. Not every fighter or fan is going to agree with Executives running that particular promotion..so they’re should be an alternative for the fighter …and for us as fans.
Hendo:
"I’d also like to thank Dana (White) and the UFC for the opportunities they provided me and I wish them ongoing success. I’ll continue to watch their events and I hope they’ll tune in to my fights in Strikeforce. After all, I’m a true fan of our fantastic sport and would love only to see MMA continue to grow,"
"I’m very happy to be a part of Strikeforce and their partnership with CBS and Showtime… Strikeforce and its growing roster of world class talent will offer me many exciting fights and has the ability to bring many new fans from all around the world to mixed martial arts. I am grateful to [Strikeforce CEO] Scott Coker for the opportunity to help make this happen and for treating me with the utmost respect throughout our negotiations."
http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/news/viewarticle.php?id=3566
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2009 2:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I’m not entirely sure how they can afford him, but they’ve signed him:
Same words were stated when they signed Fedor. I LOL everytime.
What are you LOL’ing? This is a legitimate statement. Other than through live gates and the tv deal they acquired by purchasing EliteXC, what other means of revenue does SF suddenly have to be paying top dollar for top figthers?
by filipinomix2oo0 on Dec 7, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There is more to an offer than paying top dollar.
Hendo:
And the fact that publicity-wise, CBS offers quite a bit more than a pay-per-view and Spike TV.
So Hendo signed with SF for the publicity, got it.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 5:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dan Henderson...
will once again return to the UFC in a couple of years as two division champion. Brilliant move on Dan’s part!!
Dana White blasted Fedor (and Strikeforce) because he did not get him into the UFC.
Dana White is angry at the series of unfortunate events that have happened lately so he is lashing out at things. (Fighters, Strikeforce)
And, now Dana White is going to blast Dan Henderson (and Strikeforce, again, even though they really have nothing to do with it) because Dan beleived he was treated unfairly and actually did something about it. Doesn’t Dana always say ridiculous things like, “If you don’t like it you can (f-word) leave” especially during TUF, well, Dan left and I wish him the best.
by jcbrewer on Dec 7, 2009 3:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hendo with Strikeforce...
Awesome news for me! I’d love to see Henderson beat the hell out of Shields and then have a title fight with Gegard. While a fight with Fedor would be cool, IMO the size difference would be too much and Dan would get slaughtered. I’d hate to see that.
I think this is a very good addition for Strikeforce. If they put Hendo on CBS along with a Fedor fight, with a solid undercard showcasing King Mo and Gegard fights then they can draw a really good number and increase their product awareness for future PPVs.
by Noah'sArk on Dec 7, 2009 3:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sherdog.com: Why did you pick Strikeforce over the UFC?
Henderson: The decision was based on a number of things. It wasn’t just a financial thing. It was the fact that I felt I wasn’t getting the fight that I wanted in the UFC. That was a big part of that — that I wasn’t and that it got yanked away from me. I think I stepped up for the UFC a number of times and had earned that right again for a title fight. And the fact that publicity-wise, CBS offers quite a bit more than a pay-per-view and Spike TV.
Meaning if/when
he fought and lost to Spider he wouldnt have any other fights in the UFC? I think his clothing line on CBS is the biggest reason.
by Riney on Dec 7, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Henderson: Well, at least I’ll be able to have Clinch Gear on in the cage when I fight for Strikeforce. The banning didn’t really affect anything though. When the UFC called and said that we could no longer sponsor (other fighters), that we were banned from the UFC, I wasn’t mad at all. It was more funny to me than anything that they would do that. Dana has stated to me that it was nothing personal and that there were no hard feelings at all. If there were no hard feelings, why would they ban a clothing line? We already had a deal; we were paying for the right to sponsor guys just like every other sponsor was. For them to come back and say just because Dan hasn’t re-signed a deal yet, we’re banned.
…
Especially for me at this point in my career, it was definitely Strikeforce. I don’t know what that says about the climate of the UFC. I think that they need to really respect the fighters a little bit more.
I have to give Hendo props here.
Take less money (I am guessing) to fight for Strikeforce, but he insures his long term revenues by sponsoring fighters who will be appearing on CBS.
I have always backed Danas business decisions, and this to me is a win for Hendo as a businessman. As a fighter he might have taken a small step backwards, but from a business aspect it was a huge leap in the correct direction.
i have said this before
he had the title match taken away twice and wanted to get paid to risk that shot to fight nate. Hendo made the right move for himself and his clothing ine. Clinch gear will grow from being on CBS and he wil get a bit of exposure as a main event on a network then he will probably leave and go back to the UFC
Sherdog.com: In September, you sat down with UFC owners Lorenzo Fertitta and Dana White in Las Vegas and confronted them about being passed over for the next middleweight title bout against Silva. How did they respond?
Henderson: The fight got pulled from me and was offered to Vitor (Belfort). I met with them after Vitor fought Rich Franklin. I told them that it does irritate me. I said, ‘Why does Vitor get to jump the line when there’s me and (Nate) Marquardt here who can both fight for a title shot and Vitor’s never fought for the UFC at 185? He jumps the line, especially since I beat him.’ They acted surprised that I’d even fought him. They weren’t up on those details at the time. It jogged their memory, but either way, to put someone in there that I dominated not that long ago…
Sherdog.com: Does that play into your comment earlier that they need to respect fighters more?
Henderson: Absolutely. Things like that aren’t necessary and for them to do that in the middle of negotiations doesn’t make me feel respected. It’s more of a strong-arm tactic and a lot of people turn the other way when that happens. To me, it was just funny. I didn’t take it personally, but it just seemed a little contradictory to the ‘no hard feelings’ thing.
Do you really believe this?
Every other fighter that has whined about Dana’s respect went right back when Uncle Dana opened up the piggy bank, but for Hendo it’s actually about respect?
Get real, SF paid him what he wanted, so he went. That’s it.
by Phildo on Dec 7, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Idk, Dan doesn’t come off as the type of guy who would just throw out all kinds of BS if it was just about money. That’s Tito Ortiz’s job.
Dana again acts like a spoiled angry child
What a shocker….
After all this time in the professional fight game, Dana chooses once again to respond like a jilted juvenile rather than a professional adult or president of a lg. sports organization.
What a promoter! And I mean that derogatorily.
This is Dana’s pathetic, threatened-child and spoiled-bully way… just like he does w/ Fedor, Kimbo, Arlovski, Sylvia, etc… and anyone who left the UFC basically.
If they come to your party, they’re cool and your best friend.
If they go to someone else’s party, then they were dicks who were never liked or invited anyway.
Mentally.. What are you, Dana,.. 5 years old?
Mentally.. What are you, Dana,.. 5 years old?I hope true mma fans, like and enjoy the sport of MMA, and not the cheesy scumbag promoter of just 1 mma organization.
Mentally.. What are you, Dana,.. 5 years old?I hope true mma fans, like and enjoy the sport of MMA, and not the cheesy scumbag promoter of just 1 mma organization.At this point, I’ve been sick of Dana’s silly bs for longer a period of time than I ever liked him. Its also the reason that I haven’t in 2 years and will never again waste $50 on UFC’s over-hyped cards.
Mentally.. What are you, Dana,.. 5 years old?I hope true mma fans, like and enjoy the sport of MMA, and not the cheesy scumbag promoter of just 1 mma organization.At this point, I’ve been sick of Dana’s silly bs for longer a period of time than I ever liked him. Its also the reason that I haven’t in 2 years and will never again waste $50 on UFC’s over-hyped cards.1 or 2 good fights, once in awhile – doesn’t make every ufc card worth ordering – it makes those spending 50bux on every card “Suckers of Dana’s Hype and Marketing”.
Mentally.. What are you, Dana,.. 5 years old?I hope true mma fans, like and enjoy the sport of MMA, and not the cheesy scumbag promoter of just 1 mma organization.At this point, I’ve been sick of Dana’s silly bs for longer a period of time than I ever liked him. Its also the reason that I haven’t in 2 years and will never again waste $50 on UFC’s over-hyped cards.1 or 2 good fights, once in awhile – doesn’t make every ufc card worth ordering – it makes those spending 50bux on every card “Suckers of Dana’s Hype and Marketing”.The fighters are the only thing keeping a difference between the UFC, RAW and WWE. Boxing is Boxing. But the promoters… McMahon, Arum, Don King, Gary Shaw and now Dana White… are all the same.
Mentally.. What are you, Dana,.. 5 years old?I hope true mma fans, like and enjoy the sport of MMA, and not the cheesy scumbag promoter of just 1 mma organization.At this point, I’ve been sick of Dana’s silly bs for longer a period of time than I ever liked him. Its also the reason that I haven’t in 2 years and will never again waste $50 on UFC’s over-hyped cards.1 or 2 good fights, once in awhile – doesn’t make every ufc card worth ordering – it makes those spending 50bux on every card “Suckers of Dana’s Hype and Marketing”.The fighters are the only thing keeping a difference between the UFC, RAW and WWE. Boxing is Boxing. But the promoters… McMahon, Arum, Don King, Gary Shaw and now Dana White… are all the same.
jiMMAy
So every promoter but Coker is satan?
I don’t know how people get so upset about the shit that Dana talks. he hasn’t changed in years, he isn’t going to change. If you can’t handle his methods, don’t listen to him.
I think you’re reaching with that comment.
People who criticize Dana can handle him, if they couldn’t they wouldn’t be watching UFC, it is just the simple fact that it isn’t right, and most of the time it is so contradictory it is laughable. It is one thing to make abrasive comments, but to not even be able to keep up with which abrasive comment you made is pretty ridiculous. Dana White just says whatever he wants to say anytime.
It has worked for him and he has been incredibly successful, most fans probably don’t know or even care about his behavior. But the fighters do, and the fighters who can will leave and go to another place. With that said, judging by the current problems UFC has been having lately, I don’t think he should be burning any bridges. Especially with said fighter is still relevant and Dana just re-signed two fighters who are not.
There are no bridges being burnt.
SF paid Dan more than the UFC would, so he left, it’s a very simple equation.
by Phildo on Dec 7, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It still comes down to money. Not “just up front money,” but all financial considerations.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi
Okay dude
These benefits and perks, what will they immediately be or what will they directly lead to?
?
Dan Henderson is not only a fighter, but the owner of Clinch Gear clothing.
Being on CBS and not having to pay “advertising fees” to the UFC is surely part of the equation.
The UFC banning Clinch Gear as a strong arm tactic probably didn’t help their resigning Hendo case.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
You just made my point for me.
Not having to pay advertising fees. Does that not directly translate to more money for Dan? It all comes down to money, which Sups seemed to be claiming is untrue.
It’s not more money that SF is paying Dan.
It is the cost benefit for Dan to
1. Free advertise on CBS
2. Not pay the UFC advertising fees
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Yes
But even if they are not playing him directly that money, he’s still saving it.
It still comes down to money.
My problem with Dana is he’s acting like a jerk. I know it may be an act, but as Mr. Vonnegut said "Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. "
All he has to say is it didn’t work out and good luck to Hendo. He’s got the number one organization, let his product speak speak for itself.
Good luck Danny Boy, I hope for your sake that you don’t end up getting KTFO and embarrased like Sylvia and Andrei did when they decided to jump ship. Because if you do, then you will be taking their place as the perfect example of what happens to fighters who don’t think about longterm careers and chases short term gain. Basically, you’re rolling the dice and hoping that you will be the exception to the rule and considering how he wanted no part of Nate The Great, if Moussassi is as good as people say he is you just made the dumbest mistake of your life.
Raker
I think Hendo will be fine. No one at MW poses a threat to him and losing to Gegard is nothing to be embarrassed about. I don’t think Gegard could knock out Dan anyways.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Right. Big mistake.
Hendo isn’t getting any older. Dana overlooked Hendo when he was a viable option and still very much relevant in the division, so obviously Dana is not just going to bring Hendo back in the equasion without another fight scenario invented and hyped, and, he is not getting a title shot he deserved. Dan Henderson was put on the backburner and, when eventually given a fight again, would have not been fighting anyone that would make any difference anyway. Finally, Dan Henderson would have probably just been rooted out of the UFC eventually judging by the events that were taking place. Hendo just took matters into his own hands.
I think Dan made the best decision possible. He will get paid more, he will be exposed to a different audience, and he is in a position where he just may become a champ again. Is there a risk? Of course, but sometimes you have to take a risk in order to gain a lot. Especially in business.
hope for your sake that you don’t end up getting KTFO and embarrased like Sylvia and Andrei did when they decided to jump ship. Because if you do, then you will be taking their place as the perfect example of what happens to fighters who don’t think about longterm careers and chases short term gain.
Hmmm… could Sylvia’s loss to Fedor and Arlovski’s loss to Rogers been some sort of karmic retribution for daring to leave the UFC?
by JRN on Dec 7, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
This is MMA anything can happen, Dan is basically banking on going 4-0 and going into free agency again and getting one more huge paycheck.
But if he gets ragdolled like Babalu did poof there goes any chance that the UFC would even look to bring him back.
We’ve seen how that has played out for other fighters like AA and Big Tim, the idea that Hendo is going down the same road truly makes me wonder if he’s taken too many hits to head.
This is going to blow up badly in his face and when it does he’ll have no one to blame but himself, i’ve seen this story before and I know how it ends Hendo will too.
Cool. I want Miller, Gegard, King Mo, and ??? I kinda want to say Fedor since it would be a HUGE fight, but I like Dan and would hate to see him get smoked by Fedor, especially since haters will try to taint a Fedor win by saying Hendo was way smaller.
Maybe the fourth could be Cung Le
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Somehow Dana White wins this. Hendo (while he is a great fighter) he only managed to go 2-3 in the UFC, only finished one of the fights and Im not convinced that he beat Rich Franklin. Hendo is going to go to Strikeforce and destroy Shields and give Gegard a run for his money (still think Gegard takes it). After that Dana will go on and on about how a fighter they didnt really need who lost in his 2 championship fights waltzed in and destroyed Strikeforces top talent.
Also, there is NO WAY Hendo deserved another shot at Silva over Okami (before the Sonnen loss) or Marquardt.
"He will lie between resentment and regret. He shed his grace. As certain as a snake sheds its skin. Laid waste to a wealth of talent--his curse being blessed with treasures that just were not gold enough"
Oh Crap. Type-o. Thanks.
"He will lie between resentment and regret. He shed his grace. As certain as a snake sheds its skin. Laid waste to a wealth of talent--his curse being blessed with treasures that just were not gold enough"
by ProfessorBLove on Dec 7, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
?
I don’t get one thing. Why Hendo is upset that Vitor getting a title shot, while it is him who fought Silva first.
http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl
Hendo put on a streak of wins and was promised a title shot if he beat Bisping. I understand the UFC wanting to put Vito against Silva but I also understand why Hendo is pissed he didn’t get his rematch with Silva
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Yeah but Dan decisioned Palhares and Franklin and KOed Bisping while Belfort KOed Martin, Lindland and Franklin.
I don’t get it why he is so upset about Vitor when he already had his chance.
http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl
Do I think he deserves another shot?
Yeah. Do I think it’s some travesty that they would give Vitor one? No, not at all. He wants what he wants, and I can’t blame him for that, but it’s not some cloak and dagger shit that some people are making it out to be.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
I don’t blame him, it’s his decision. I undersand his money demands, but I don’t quite get this Belfort titleshot mantra.
http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl
It's an out
He wanted the leprechaun gold and he’s making it look like he wanted the title gold. Oh well.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Dan Henderson
My prediction:
He’ll take the MW, LHW, and HW Strikeforce belts.
Well, probably not but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him compete in each division in Strikeforce
sigh
Dana going the pro-wrestling model rather than legit sports league/franchise yet again…
the problem with crap like this is that it will naturally put a ceiling on the UFC’s, and thus the sport’s, growth toward mainstream expansion. Dana is worried about regulation, but the UFC’s problem as far as exposure seems more that anytime a big event is coming on, DW is the one on ESPN, CNBC, major radio shows, etc. GSP is the best fighter they have as far as marketability (top 3 P4P and actually speaks English), but you never see him on the big american sports networks even when he fights. you see Dana talking about how the UFC is the greatest sport in the world or the UFC is growing or blah blah blah. and what happens if someone doesn’t sign with him? he buries the guy, so the guy goes elsewhere and doesn’t really lose anything as far as exposure.
yeah, the UFC is the biggest show and does put on the best shows, but for so long they’ve been banking on the brand and the names of a few company men who are now (1) too old (Liddell, Couture) or (2) becoming too far removed from the the thing that made them relevant (Griffin on TUF 1, Tito’s been out for over a year). now all they have is Lesnar because for all the talent that they have at LW, LHW, and in the MW and WW champs, nobody knows any of those guys because they don’t just naturally standout like a behemoth of Lesnar’s stature and persona.
so the UFC name will automatically do 300-400 buys on itself, but its going to stay like that for a while unless Dana starts marketing the fighters themselves more. but he won’t do that until he can learn to deal with situations like this. sure its a risk that he could lose guys or guys could want a bigger part of the revenue if he gives them more exposure, but the UFC’s growth is going to stagnate for a while unless he does.
the NFL and Soccer are what they are today not because of the Logo or the sport, respectively, but because people so personally and strongly identify with, say, the Green Bay Packers or Manchester United that they’ve also grown to love the sport itself almost as much, or at least be as invested in it.
people like the sport, love the team/player, and then grow to love the sport. Dana is banking on the opposite skipping part two of that.
by sBruce24 on Dec 7, 2009 5:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Dana was actually quite civil, I think you’re making something out of nothing here.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 7, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
lol
Dana White is a true carnie, he never breaks kayfabe. I find it funny that, no matter how cartoonish his responses are to his fighters defecting, they always get a prominent place in the discussion, like he is providing some kind of substantive insight. I’m surprised Chiapetta is the one who took Dana’s dictation though, that job is typically reserved for Kevin Iole or Steve Cofield.
UFC simply doesn’t have enough quality main event attractions to fill their PPV schedule as it is, and this is another step in the wrong direction. They really erred by deciding to bet so big on a Tito Ortiz return. Given UFC 106’s weak performance, it seems ludicrous to suggest that Henderson ISN’T worth as much as Ortiz when it comes to the PPV depth chart.
For Strikeforce, this can be considered another coup in the vein of Fedor’s signing; there were a large number of detractors saying they simply couldn’t get Hendo. Right now they have a double main event in December, a double main event in January, and lots of ammo for the eventual Spring 2010 CBS card. Their ability to provide premium-level fight cards at non-premium prices (or for free entirely) really helps set them apart at a time when a lot of fans are questioning if they are getting good value out of their UFC PPV dollar.
by smoogy2 on Dec 7, 2009 5:28 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Well said smoogy
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Now here’s one of those guys that bought into all that “UFC IS DOOOOMED” nonsense from a couple days back.
Oh nothing
Just reading your blatantly anti UFC and pro SF comment reminded me of all the ridiculous sky is falling talk from a while ago.
I never understand
The UFC vs Strikeforce people?
Why do we have to pick a side? Can’t we be glad that there is 2 thriving American promotions?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
EXACTLY
I just don’t want a fractured talent pool. Get ’em all in the UFC, get ’em all in SF, who cares. Hell, kill both orgs and get ’em in PRIDE!
But i am a realist and realize the only and best place for that to happen currently is in the UFC.
Wow, you’re a real piece of work. Sorry, I’m not a slave to the MMA blog cycle, so my views aren’t informed only by hot-button stories. It has been my opinion for a while that UFC is facing overexpansion issues with their PPV headliners, but I guess that application of reason is too “blatantly anti-UFC” for your dinosaur brain to absorb.
I don't want to get into a thing
So we’ll agree to disagree. I don’t see any big issues on the horizon for the UFC, you do. Fair enough.
*here's some fresh green for you, sir
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
Since Dan didn’t fight Nate who is he going to main event or even co-main with? he’s not worth much to Zuffa at this point… He’s worth more eating up the competitions finances.
How do you think CBS will feel when there demo gains are cut in at least half with a LIVE UFC counter program? Losing 2million viewers from your average viewership in that time slot for the demo gains is one thing to stomach… but once those demo gains are slashed you can kiss CBS goodbye .
And losing the CBS Deal AFTER you make expensive contract commitments then Showtime/Strikeforce are done.
Zuffa is not ignorant and knows exactly what it’s doing and knows exactly what’s going to happen. There’s already a space in the Tombstone Dana has.
PS. Welcome Back
More sound and fury from the UFC Alpha Shill. I’m shocked to see you running interference on this topic, really.
Let me know when your Bold Prediction Success Rate gets up over 5%.
by smoogy2 on Dec 7, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Coming from the guy who’s been hanging on the nuts of every failed promotion to date.
Ive stuck to one where your still a cheap hooker jumping from one to the other.
So in 5 years ill still be sticking to that one while you continue to run dozens and dozens of ball sacks through your mouth.
by mmalogic on Dec 7, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
you + mmalogic =
I’ll let you two decide whom is whom.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
Ha! I was thinking more along the lines of...
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Dec 7, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Dec 7, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
This is fun
You guys should ease up on the name calling, though. Hate to see you get broken up again..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
I read his comment and made an argument and instead of being able to dispute it he starts a bitch fight.
Then he thinks I cant hold his jock… lol.
The guy who’s been jumping from one ball sack to another for years. But I wont hold that against him… simply dispute what would happen if Zuffa counters the CBS show with a live show?
CBS is already losing 2 million viewers for that time slot. When the demo gains are slashed what do you think is gonna happen?
Now is it better to do this once strikeforce has more liabilities (fighter pay commitments) on the books or before?
If the CBS deal is gone they can still survive on showtime if costs were contained and that’s not happening now.
To capture a fucking horse they exposed their queen and ultimately their King.
Here’s a serious question:
If they run the next card in February what will the UFC do to counter it? Do they have fighters available? I would think they wouldn’t put a poor Spike show up against a Fedor-Overeem and Hendo-Mousasi card (if those guys are able to do it). Not only would it look bad if they got beat but if they used the more expensive fighters it would be money spent that they could be using to earn money from ppv.
Here’s another question, and it’s not meant to be snide because I’m actually curious? What cash reserves does the UFC have? From what I seen from mmapayout and other sources they have maybe $25 million in cash, and their credit rating is not great so would they take money out to finance a card that wouldn’t bring income in. With little cash reserves and $75 million (pre-tax I believe) having to be paid in dividends to the owners, doesn’t Zuffa have to keep a steady stream of cash coming in through ppv?
First, they’re a non-public company – so there’s pretty much no way in hell anyone who had that information would be at liberty to divulge it in a public (or non-public, for that matter) forum. Cuban wouldn’t even touch that topic with a 10-ft pole.
Second, if you actually believe he’s privy to this information, well…
First, all that information is public via the last S&P report on Zuffa. (the question about how much cash reserves is or available credit basically rhetorical – they have $25 mil available, they will have to go outside for the rest with a BB rating).
Second, I don’t believe he’s privy to any of it, but I am interested in reading why he seems so sure that Strikeforce is so ripe to be taken down…
If the live counter is on spike (highly probable) UFC could and will probably lose in total viewership (unless there’s enough time to get a solid main event, co-main and kimbo on the undercard)… but at this point that’s irrelevant.
THE ONLY purpose of the counter will be to slash the CBS demo gains completely burying this venture… And a live UFC counter will do just that.
Cash flow is not a problem (ZUffa has enormous revolving credit windows) and a card can be put together quite effectively.
The live counter will be money well spent and there’s enough revenue from sponsorships and TV deals where monetarily it’s a no lose situation.
But what would UFC be able to do if Strikeforce and CBS can get a show on in February? It will be pretty hard to scrounge through the cupboard to find any available fighters. Would they then cannibalize a ppv show just to counter them?
As for cash flow, isn’t most of this eaten up by dividend payments to the owners? If Zuffa is turning in $90 mil in after tax profit (a guess based on 30% EBITDA and $400 mil in revenue), but is making $75 mil in payments, that doesn’t leave a lot of money left over. Is it wise to burn through cash by borrowing money at a higher rate to counter a potential rival when their energy could spent bringing in cash from ppvs.
But the loan on the dividends isn’t coming due until 2015 correct? It’s not like they’re paying it all back this year…I think they’ve got some breathing room there.
Yes, on the loan. But the dividend payments are being made to the Fertillas and Dana who are using it pay off A) old loans or B) Station Casino debt C) or other? It just seems like a very large amount to be taken out when they are working on growing the company.
Oh I don’t think they’re using it to pay off Station Debt. I think it’s more like C). $75 mil is almost 2x what they sunk into the company to make it profitable. Maybe they’re just looking to themselves while the getting is good and rely on the expected grow and cash flows to make up for it.
You would think, but that’s a lot to be taking out when your credit rating keeps getting lowered. But this is also what the Fertillas did with Station Casinos – making $100 mil + a year, so taking cash it is common for them. Of course, now Station is $6.5 billion in debt so lets hope they aren’t doing the same thing !
Yeah, but frankly the whole Station thing is just a sign of the whole entire financial thinking in the world at the time. Credit was so cheap, it made sense to make these insanely leverage going-private transactions with the idea that you could re-finance down the road with little problems and you’d be making crazy money now that you held it privately.
Looking at schedules quickly, I don’t see Forrest Griffin or Rich Franklin doing anything around that time?
I thought Rich Franklin was planning on fighting in March?
And this also explains why Strikeforce will wait to make their announcement with only a month to six weeks left if they’re going to put it on in February – limit the UFC’s chances to find fighters on such short notice.
Oh I just meant that I don’t see him slated in any of the events, at least not with any potential opponent. Rich is one of their go to company men, so I could see them getting him to step in to fill the void.
As for SF, that’s a double-edged sword because they’re also hurting their chances of marketing their own card at the “advantage” of giving the UFC as little notice as possible.
That’s why I think a Feb card is their best hope, but it might not be possible (especially if Fedor is hurt and they can’t get anyone to fight him). They could put it on the week after the Superbowl. They would have the January 30th fight with Herschel and then ads on the Superbowl all building up to a Feb. 13 fight. And UFC couldn’t do much because no one’s healthy.
Fair game. They basically can’t do a card without using Fedor or they wasted the first show’s momentum. They’ll have to run Fedor, Dan and Gina to make sure they’ve got a monster show, but I could totally see them pull out Kimbo’s next fight to counter-program them in February. How’d that be for irony?
You’re barking up the wrong tree regarding cash flow… A show can be put on every week and there’s underwriters waiting in line to cover everything for less than 2% on capital with Monetization already in place to even make a small profit. That’s not the problem.
Even the timing is not a problem. Zuffa will know plus or minus 3 weeks what the date will be and Zuffa will know the exact date within 6 weeks.
There’s more than enough talent in Zuffa to main event and fill out a free card on spike And achieve the ratings metrics to do the job.
They didn’t do a live counter-program for the CBS debut, but they’ll do one now when they’re hurting to find guys to fill out PPV cards? They can’t even convince guys like Anderson Silva to fight on a ppv, so I think I’d have a hard time seeing them get him in there on TV, on short notice, without paying through the nose.
IF they really wanted to hurt them, they’ll roll out a Kimbo fight.
Latest UFC counter programing ...
failed pretty hard. All they have is recycled PPVs.
by Johnnynumber5 on Dec 8, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
I'm really happy to see you back.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Dec 7, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Btw
Not sarcasm.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Dec 7, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Dan has always been an outsider of sorts....
If Dan wasn’t a fighter, he’d be one of those guys on Sherdog who constantly praises Pride and complains about how the UFC fucks everything up.
It seems Dan thought he was more than he is worth, at least more than the UFC was willing to pay him. You know Strikeforce isn’t/can’t pay him much more than the UFC can offer. Also, he was butt hurt over not getting another title shot.
I don’t see this getting TOO nasty in the media, but I doubt Dana will want him back in the UFC after all this. Kinda rough to burn that bridge. Especially when he’s running a camp as well.
seriously?
Dana made up with Tito after their public spat that was way worse than this thing with Henderson. If Henderson holds a SF belt and looks impressive Dana will welcome him back with open arms.
by Johnnynumber5 on Dec 8, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
UFC really dropped the ball losing Henderson right off of a season of TUF and a big KO of Bisping. Not to mention on the card he KO’d him on was the biggest of the year, everyone that remotely likes mma has seen that fight and knows Henderson now.
I guess it really does come down to Dana not viewing Strikeforce as a threat. I guess he figures Dan will be back to him in a year or so after Strikeforce collapses. Eventually though, one of these competitors won’t fall apart and will start rising up against the UFC, so Dana should be careful about letting well advertised talent walk.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
We’ve heard that Henderson was asking for a lot of money. Is he now your highest-paid fighter?
No.
Is he your highest paid other than Fedor?
Fedor is the highest-paid athlete in Strikeforce. We have two other athletes who are getting paid as much as Dan, but I really can’t say any more than that.
When he beat Michael Bisping at UFC 100 he made a $100,000 base salary, a $150,000 win bonus and a $100,000 knockout of the night bonus. Can he make more than $350,000 a fight in Strikeforce?
Well, I can’t go into the details but there are a lot of things that are important to Dan. One is the compensation, but another was keeping his name and likeness rights, having access to intellectual property rights. But I’m almost getting too much into the deal, which I’m not supposed to because there are confidentiality agreements. The bottom line is that Dan wants to be treated fairly and with respect and we feel the same.
Dana White told my colleague Mike Chiappetta that signing Henderson will actually hurt Strikeforce because Henderson isn’t a big enough draw to justify the money he’s commanding. Is there any truth to that?
Well, I don’t want to get into the whole Dana White thing. All I can say is, how often does a guy like Dan Henderson become available? He’s a main event fighter. Every promotion would like to have Dan Henderson fight in a main event for them. Main event fighters are few and far between, and when you get a guy like Dan, who can contend for titles in two weight classes, it’s a good day for Strikeforce.
Let me read you something else Dana White said: “They have too many fighters under contract and not enough events. They can’t keep some of their obligations to fighters already. Either they’re going to start breaching contracts or paying fighters not to fight. It’ll take a lot more than one guy to help them. Their whole business model is f****d. They’re coming after UFC? Yeah, OK.” How do you respond to that?
Come on. I don’t even want to respond to that. It doesn’t deserve a response. I’m honored he’s so concerned.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 7, 2009 7:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
What a whole lot of nothing in that post. He answered one direct question and then ducked bobbed and weaved every other one.
Guillotine.
yeah, that's a whole lot of nothing.. but this is what i found interesting..
We have two other athletes who are getting paid as much as Dan, but I really can’t say any more than that.
any ideas who those two are?
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Frank Shamrock is pretty obvious, 375K.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 8, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t know they considered Vadim Finkelstein an athlete.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 8, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no.. He's not an athlete that's separate from Fedor..
how else would he suck him dry if he was?
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 8, 2009 2:51 AM EST up reply actions
So being a Dick= A Good Business Man?
I love all these people who ‘break it down’ for us by explaining Dana’s BS away as him being “a good business man”, and it ‘just being good business’.
Dana was a doorman. He’s a liar who knows how to bs people and fake a tough guy act. If that’s a good business man, then it obviously doesn’t take much to be one, does it? Anybody can act like a dick.
What does it benefit Dana to dirtmouth Hendo (and everyone for that matter) as they’re on their way out? The bridge it would burn and has burnt is with some of the fighters and why run the risk and even more just.. Why be a DICK?
Its not “good business” ..you Dana White Dildo’s
Standing your ground, being tough, not taking any shit, whatever… is not the same as throwing shit at everyone as they walk out your door. Especially when its toward fighters like Hendo who were very good to you and your company. This just shows Dana’s inexperience and low class.
Its no wonder he constantly allows total undeserving scumbags into TUF just for ratings.
Oh he’s good for the sport, its good for the sport.. yeah RIGHT
Scott Coker is good for the sport. He bad mouths no one, has been in it for a long time, has great relationships and you never hear one bad thing about him and look how Strikeforce has been growing.
Dana White is good for the Zuffa and himself but not the sport. He misrepresents himself as being for the sport when actually he’s for the money that spreading the sport will make him. Dana does things that set back the sport , for ratings= money. Thus selling out the sport.
There’s a difference. If you’re only ever about money, you will always be missing the point.
jiMMAy
Well
I guess Dana isn’t invited to your Christmas party.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Well didn’t you just stuff every “Dana White Dildo’s” stocking.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 7, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
Let me sum this up
Dana White trying to make the most money possible = asshole, liar, dick, etc.
Dan Henderson trying to make the most money possible = good for him
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
But Dana calls people names
So he calls Dana names.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
MMAWeekly: Did you ask for the rights to your image and likeness, or any special deal with the UFC? I’m wondering if your experience was anything like your old teammate, Randy Couture, who went back and forth with them over the same thing.
Henderson: I had given up certain rights. Obviously, I was in the video game, and I haven’t made a dime from it, the first contract I signed back with them. That was for non-exclusive for the video game, and a lot of press has touched on that subject with them. They definitely were interested in exclusive deals, especially for the video game, and for me, that should be a whole other deal. When I’m not getting paid for it, it doesn’t make me all that excited to do it.
SI.com: How much of your decision had to do with ancillary rights and likeness issues, and being able to control those things?
Henderson: Not a whole lot. I’ve given up a lot of those rights to the UFC in the past. The UFC is accustomed to getting everything they want as far as that goes. I’ll tell you, Strikeforce is so much easier to deal with on those types of issues that it’s kind of refreshing.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/josh_gross/12/07/dan.henderson.strikeforce/index.html#ixzz0Z49JaCQ7
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 7, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Like I said
Dan’s going to say whatever he can to seem more comfortable with the SF deal than he would have been in the UFC, when all along he said he wanted to stay in the UFC. If I tell all of my friends I’m buying a Jag and end up getting a Honda, you bet your ass I’m going to brag about the mileage I get..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 7, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
True, but it doesn’t mean it wasn’t somewhat of a factor. I’m more interested in the fact that the fighters aren’t getting paid a dime from the UFC game, which is what I remember Josh Gross reporting a while back.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 7, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
I’m more interested in the fact that thefighters aren’tDan wasn’t getting paid a dime from the UFC game
Fixed. He specifically mentions he had a separate deal from the standard exclusive one.
Guillotine.
Trust me, not the first time I have heard a fighter say that, FYI. Actually, when we were having the video game wars a while back, I posted that I had heard the same thing.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 7, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
P.S.
EA Sports has some new fighter announcements coming next week.
I wonder who they will announce. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 7, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe next year
They don’t have the bursting vein-technology in this engine.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
And I’ve heard some fighters say they’re getting 5 figure endorsements from their sponsors for being in the game.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
That counts as sponsorship money, not a royalty check for x number of games sold.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 8, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Very, very true
And I’ve heard that no fighters has profited from Zuffa (or if anyone has it’s an exclusive agreement).
However, a point you fail to make is that fighters sign a very specific contract to fight with Zuffa and that is included in the terms. It’s up to their agent to make them aware of those provisions and if they sign the contract, they accept those terms. There’s nothing coniving or underhanded about it— fighters make more money in the UFC without a likeness rights check from THQ and they knowingly decide to sign a contract of employment with those rights defined.
It’s insulting to the fighters when people like you come along and make them seem like circus elephants having their tusks filed down and smacked on the knees with singapore canes.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
I generally agree with you, but that didn’t seem to be the case with Fitch, Cain, and Koscheck last November where it seemed the UFC just strong-armed them into signing.
Yeah
On the other hand, I think the situation with AKA got blown out of proportion. Even Fitch said that he just wanted to think about it, didn’t disagree with the terms and it blew up from there. They all seem pretty happy with where they’re at.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Cesar Gracie fighters weren’t happy about it either. A good number of camps and fighters weren’t. ATT oddly seemed to be the first camp to be okay with it.
Don't start generalizing
“A good number of camps weren’t” is a lie, plainly stated. AKA’s barb was with their management wanting to methodically review the terms and Zuffa looking at it as them saying that somehow their camp thought they were better because almost every other camp signed immediately. Set down your pitchfork..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
On the other hand, I think the situation with AKA got blown out of proportion. Even Fitch said that he just wanted to think about it, didn’t disagree with the terms and it blew up from there. They all seem pretty happy with where they’re at.
As I remember Dana White either released Fitch or threatened to release him if he didn’t sign his likeness away for life. Fitch wanted to sign it away for his time with the UFC or for the game specifically but Dana shit a brick.
I remember that specifically because Fitch was on Inside MMA talking about it shortly after it/while it was happened/happening.
by Johnnynumber5 on Dec 8, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
He did release him temporarily
It was a pretty stupid situation and they definitely didn’t handle it properly, but everyone is comfortable with the terms now. He could have walked rather than re-sign to the same terms.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
yeah ...
it was pretty crazy to get to that point. That’s an issue that should’ve been handled internally and with a little more flexibility. I don’t think we know what happened … if Fitch signed the agreement or they came to some other terms.
Dana/THQ also offered Clay Guida $10,000 to cut his hair so he could be put into the game but Clay didn’t go for it. Something about the hair and collision detection.
I believe Dana also said he would blackball anyone from the UFC who signed on to be part of EA’s MMA. Then, he broke that promise for Couture.
While we are on the subject of the game: How about some DLC and a patch to fix some of the transition exploits in online play.
by Johnnynumber5 on Dec 8, 2009 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
While we are on the subject of the game: How about some DLC and a patch to fix some of the transition exploits in online play.
I don’t think they give a shit at this point, since they’re concentrating all of their efforts on UFC 2010. I hear they created a hair model, so Guida will be in the game! Fingers also crossed for southpaw, more organic physics and less random flash-KO’s..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Southpaw
is a must. I agree they are focusing all their efforts on ’10. Hey I was pretty impressed with the game for the most part but once everyone started using the same technique online (body clinch, slam, guard pass, mount, hold transition block and throw random hammer fists) it got old quick and took the fun out of it.
Their agenda should be hair, better character models, more grappling and fighting styles, more fighters, better deformation and the big one southpaw. Obviously it wasn’t an oversight and was probably a technical issue with collision detection but that was a big bummer and something I somehow missed at first.
by Johnnynumber5 on Dec 8, 2009 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
duh
improved ground game, transitions, submissions etc.
How about dynamic improvements to character statistics like NBA Live 10 uses?
It’d be cool if they adjusted Bj Penn’s cardio in the game now that it’s improved for real.
by Johnnynumber5 on Dec 8, 2009 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
I think improved physics are really important, too. I don’t like that when you stun a fighter you can’t really follow up properly. There are some small things I’m sure they’ll address and hopefully some surprises to help them in their impending war of consumer satisfaction with EA’s MMA.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
I'm an avid gamer
I’m in that coveted male demographic that games and loves MMA. I play a lot of EA’s original IP’s (Dead Space, Mirrors Edge, Battlefield etc) and their licensed sports games and though I like the roster of the MMA game I have the feeling it’s going to fail compared to Undisputed. A lot of people praise the new fight night but my opinion is it’s trash. I’d much prefer if EA (or anyone really) made a true next gen K-1 game. I think it’s Konami thats holds the license on the K-1 ip and they’ve only produced a DS game that was on released in Asia … whoop. I guess it’s such a niche product but as a consumer I’d take Badr Hari vs Remy Bonjaski over Fedor vs Couture.
I guess what I’m getting at the core of it is this: THQ has a tremendous base to work from with Undisputed where as EA is building from scratch. Much like the second iteration of Assassins Creed & Uncharted drastically improved the core concepts of their predecessors I feel Undisputed ‘10 will do the same thing. EA has already said the MMA game will be a bi-annual product alternating with Fight Night so I just don’t get the impression they are really trying to get MMA right. I’ll get it but I’m not convinced.
I agree with you that they need to have dynamic subtle animations that don’t make the game feel so stiff and rigid. In a way it felt like rock em sock em robots. It needs to be a constant flow of subtle dynamic animations though and not canned ones that can be exploited by the amount of frames (ala street fighter) it takes to execute a move.
Anyway … late … thanks for the baptism
by Johnnynumber5 on Dec 8, 2009 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
I'm a major gamer/MMA fan, too
Used to be a gaming writer years back. Agreed on all accounts. And Assassin’s Creed 2 is brilliant, save for the little glitches (the fucking flying machine and not being able to stop a pickpocket once he begins climbing anything). I have a copy of Uncharted 2, but sadly, haven’t had a second to play it.
Welcome to BE d00d..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Play it
It is incredible.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Dec 8, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Fitch: “This sport is definitely not about fighting anymore. It used to be about finding out who the best guy was, what the best style was. It’s not about that anymore. It’s about the top company making the most money.”
More from Fitch prior to signing the deal: “We tried to negotiate five- or 10-year deals with them, but it wasn’t good enough. It was all or nothing. [White] wanted our lifetime. He wanted our souls forever.” Fitch added that he “simply didn’t understand the need to sign a lifetime contract, particularly since it would not pay his family in the event of his death.”
Okay?
Thanks for the old ass quotes.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
DAAAAAAAAAANAAAAAAAAAA!!
Why do I suddenly feel so angry?
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Appreciate the quotes
As now I know my memory isn’t completely fucked.
I wonder what they ended up agreeing on. I’d bet Fitch got maybe some kind of a bump and signed the lifetime deal.
That is the one thing Couture fought for in his negotiations. However, a lot of guys aren’t in that situation and it’s especially true for up and comers.
Blackout also made a good point when he said these guys make the decision to sign the deal. However, Fitch was forced to sign that agreement or he would be released from the promotion. Thats kind of like having it both ways. I guess thats what it’s like to be judge, jury and executioner.
by Johnnynumber5 on Dec 8, 2009 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
And also
That’s the danger of non-guaranteed contracts, but only the most elite get signing bonuses (=guarantees) and Fitch isn’t among them. So the cut or sign thing is totally acceptable, as Fitch was welcome to move on elsewhere. Honestly, though, it was stupid of the UFC because Fitch is a great fighter. I just don’t think it makes him a victim.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
But at the time there was nowhere else to go that was even close to paying what the UFC was: Elite just folded, Affliction was trying to figure out how they were going to get out of the business and weren’t signing anyone, and Strikeforce hadn’t gotten a deal with CBS yet. Maybe Japan, but they weren’t going to give him what he earns here. Then on top of that they threaten everyone at AKA over it. That’s is definitely an imperfect market at work.
And when people say “well that’s how capitalism works: supply and demand” they always forget the second part of capitalism. Competition. That’s why I’m cheering for Strikeforce to succeed. Not because they’re better than the UFC, but because it’ll give the fighters an option so they don’t always get screwed by promoters.
can we chill out on the lifetime likeness rights drama?
Fedor had to give Affliction his likeness rights “in perpetuity” and AA and Sylvia, who were in the first UFC game, are now going to be in the EA Sports game too.
Has anyone ever said that doing this thing means you can’t be in any other video game ever? or does it mean that you can’t leave the UFC in 3 years and decide that you want them to pull you out of older versions of the game?
If I tell all of my friends I’m buying a Jag and end up getting a Honda, you bet your ass I’m going to brag about the mileage I get..
Couldn’t the same be said for Dana? I get the impression that Dana is playing it off like it’s not a big deal because Hendo wouldn’t cower to his demands. Making it seem like he didn’t want Dan anyway.
If SF is going to give similar money as the UFC was offering, get a title shot in your first fight and be a main event headliner and one of the top if not the top fighters in the promotion … why wouldn’t you do it? Especially if you were squeezed out of a promised title shot.
I just think that logic and line of thinking works both ways. Even when Dana has lost out on negotiations in the past (M-1) he basically said the same thing. They wanted this absurd and ridiculous deal that isn’t feasible. But, then SF gets both deals done. We don’t know if Dana is being cheap or if SF is being undisciplined but the fact is SF got two deals done that the UFC couldn’t. Thats all that counts.
Dan’s a good guy, he is in