Despite DQ Loss to Matt Hamill, the Hyping of Jon Jones Continues
by Kid Nate on Dec 7, 2009 11:14 AM EST
in MMA News
60 comments
While the result didn’t go his way, the night was still a major step forward in Jones’ career. Jones, 22, had only been fighting for four months when he was signed by the UFC during the summer of 2008. Hamill (9-2) was the test to see if he could hang with the top-level fighters.
Hamill, one of the company’s most popular fighters for overcoming the handicap of being deaf, had only been truly handled once in his career, a loss against Rich Franklin.
Jones answered questions about his potential with flying colors. In his first fight since beginning training at the Greg Jackson camp in Albuquerque, N.M., two months ago, he lived up to his pre-match prediction that he had a surprise for Hamill when it came to his wrestling ability.
Perhaps never in the history of mixed martial arts has a fighter so thoroughly dominated a fight in which a loss found a way on to his record. But then again, we've seen over and over that when Jon Jones gets in the cage, amazing things happen.
Let's just put this out on the table and see if you bite: one day, we are likely to look back on his disqualification loss to Matt Hamill as a blip on an otherwise spectacular career, much in the same way we view Fedor Emelianenko's fluky loss to Tsuyoshi Kohsaka due to a cut.
Did I just mention Jones in the same breath as Fedor? Yes, I guess I did. Before you think I've gone unhinged, I do realize the 22-year-old phenom has a long way to go to truly join that conversation, but he has such an intriguing set of gifts that it's easy to project him as a future great.
Never fear Jones fans, the kid's onward and upward march will continue. The skills he showed Saturday were nothing less than thrilling and as this 22 year old matures and grows, the sky is the limit.
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I really hope they dont hold up Jones ascent up the ladder because this was technically a loss. Matt Hamill was a stiff test and he passed it with flying colors. Theres no reason to hold him back because of a fluke ending.
I’m sure the UFC considers this a win for Jones, and will match his next fight up as if it were an official W on his record.
Who would be a good next step for Jones is the question.
Vera?
Soszysnski?
Vera
Book it, throw it on the main card of the GSP-Hardy fight.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 11:29 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I’m all for that. Plenty of time for both guys to be ready. Neither were hurt in their last fight. That would make a pretty good #3 fight on the GSP-Hardy card.
Jones needs to be brought along steadily. I’d give him 2 years of consecutively tougher opposition (assuming he wins) before I thought about having him fight Machida or Shogun.
Agreed and up til now that’s been exactly how they’ve handled him. Can’t wait til UFC: The Ultimate 2012- Jones vs. Mousasi for the LHW title.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 11:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Vera is the popular opinion, tho I wouldn’t rule out a rematch with Hamill when he recovers.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
I think the UFC cares about the opinions of the fans and I doubt many people care to see that rematch, of course that doesn’t mean it won’t happen but Vera makes a lot more sense with both guys being in the 10-20 range and coming off “losses”.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 11:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
See below, but I wonder how different that would have went if Hamill wouldn't have seperated his shoulder.
I still Jones wins, but I don’t think it would have looked like that.
Maybe, but you can’t really look at it like that considering Jones caused the seperation.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 7, 2009 1:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He "bodied" Hamill on Saturday
Top Contender by the end of 2010.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
A L on the record, but a W to everyone else. He also seems to have a really good attitude about it, which is great to see. I liked his comment about finally having a loss, so now the pressure is off.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
I didn’t hear him but it looked like Jackson was telling him to be a man and accept the situation graciously. I saw it but quite didn’t hear it. Had he made a Lesnar of himself right then and there, that would have made him instantly a UFC villain and I would have hated it. I don’t root for stupid-ass immature a-holes à la Baby Penn. I want to root for Jones because he’s the future. He’ll be a great champion.
The title is tied up anyways
No LHW title fight until May. Jones would need a few more wins, regardless of if he had gotten the W here or not. Everyone knows this was a Jon Jones win. It’s far less fluky than the Fedor loss, or the Anderson Silva DQ loss. I’m sure the UFC will continue to match him up against stiffer competition. The real question is who is next? I think a fight with Forrest Griffin makes sense. Griffin isn’t really on the road to a title shot anytime soon, and he is a step up from Hamill.
Shit, at least Fedor’s fluke loss was cause by some sort of damage inflicted.
Jones lost because he fucked up a guy too brutally.
by SidHartman on Dec 7, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This shouldn’t slow Jones ascent at all. I like the Vera matchup, as I’d like to see Jones deal with Vera’s reach and striking. Either way, It has to be someone on the level of Vera, Jardine, maybe even Forrest, for it to be a step up from Hamill. Jon took no damage, so hopefully he’ll be back at 109 or 110. Love his attitude about the DQ as well. He’s getting close to being my favorite fighter, and at 22 years old, he’s just getting started.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Dec 7, 2009 11:37 AM EST reply actions
It won’t be Jardine. Jones thinks of him as a brother.
Too bad, that would be a good fight for Jones.
Damn, you’re right. I forgot about the Greg Jackson Mafia ties :)
by Kwisatz Haderach on Dec 8, 2009 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
I’d like to see him face Cane. Eventually a match between Jones and Mousasi would be nice. I know, that’s not possible, but just try and tell me you don’t want to see that.
way too soon
for a mousasi match up. A striker who can counter punch is exactly the opposite of what Jon Jones wants to see right now. He gets away with hit because he naturally has a long reach and is so fast/creative. After some more time at jackson’s, he will clean up the holes in his stand up.
He’s not already unstoppable? Man! I was sure so. I really need to learn more about all that mma stuff. Whatever holes he’s got, it’s not showing much to those amateurish eyes of mine.
Can you explain what is wrong with his stand up? He’s got bad foot work? His hands are too low or too slow perhaps? He’s got bad head movement? Is he too rigid, too tensed? Would you say he’s too predictable? Bad leg kicks? Come down from your pedestale of supposed superiority and reveal to us the depth of your knowledge captain o my captain. Shine your light.
Lol, Since you asked so nicely…
His head movement could be improved. He avoids shot by moving backwards, not by slipping punches. If he could start making smaller movements to avoid being hit he could really open up guys for counters. Standing on the outside and pot-shotting opponents while mixing in the occasional crazy attack might work against the Hamills and Bonnars of the world, but it won’t fly against elite kickboxers like Shogun, Machida, or Silva.
I didn’t mean to come across as someone with a superiority complex, but I’m not a huge fan of being patronized.
Yeah I’d love to see it, even though Jones may not be quite ready for it yet. I think Cane is a good choice as well, though I’d like to see Jones vs. Vera even more.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Dec 8, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
it shows as a loss on his record, he doesnt get his win bonus… but in the eyes of every fan, we were impressed.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
You can't convince me
that Dana didn’t slip him the W bonus anyways. That was a thoroughly dominating victory, and while Jones does need to be punished publicly for breaking the rules, I think the L on his record accomplishes that just fine. The first always hurts the most.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Jones vs. Lil Nog
I know Lil Nog is coming off of a win while Jones is coming of a DQ loss, but why wait to test him? This would be an awesome fight and could save UFC 109 from being crappy.
Vera would also be a good test for him. Would be nice to see Vera used as fodder for an up-and-comer for once instead of the UFC working on building him up.
Nogueira already turned down Vera
because Vera was coming off a loss. He’d likely do the same with Jones.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
If Lil Nog turned down Jones because he is coming off of a loss, it would be more than obvious that Lil Nog was avoiding him. But, I suppose Vera is a more logical next step for Jones anyway. I would hope to see a spectacular highlight reel finish in that one. Then Jones can be thrown into deeper waters, ie. Shogun, Lil Nog, TSilva, or whoever becomes available in the next few months. Would be potentially awesome to see Jones fighting ASilva.
By the way, Jones won’t fight Rashad or Jardine because they all train together in NM.
he also turned down vera
because they train together at times.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
Im starting to rethink how impressed I was with Jones in this fight.
Right off the bat, I want to say I think he is tremendous, however…
The stand up was fairly even with Jones’s best coming by way of that throw. Until Hamill specifically states this, I believe that the throw is what injured his shoulder, which is the important issue to me. Jones’ GnP was incredible, however it needs to be recognized that this display was alot of energy with less damage inflicted until the illegal elbows on a guy with a SEPARATED SHOULDER. I have to wonder how much better Hamill’s defense would have been without that injury, whether or not he would have gotten out of that situation.
Additionally, while Jones’ creativity in his striking is very impressive and entertaining, I do think it needs to be reigned in. In this instance illegal elbows got him DQ’d. He should have at least lost a point in the Bonnar fight, however got away with it. If the trend continues it may become an issue. I’m sure training with Jackson will help.
I forgot about the illegal blow in the Bonnar fight.
Jones hit him with that spinning back elbow right in the back of the head and knocked him down. Surely that affected Bonnar for the rest of the fight.
Not so sure I agree with you here. Hamil’s stand-up was fairly ineffective compared to Jones’. He was smart and kept the jab up and the kicks were nearly all landing with snap and power. Jones, from memory, was clearly dominant standing. That throw MAY have been what caused the injury, but not necessarily. And a lot of those elbows were landing, it was clear to me that at least half of them were landing, and the half that were partially blocked were causing damage because of the sheer power (those wind-ups were nasty looking). While the illegals caused damage (we’re both just posturing and don’t really know for sure) the other elbows were causing significant damage.
I don't think either of their stand up was dominating.
I just mean to point out that the part of the fight that Jones clearly and brutally dominated was on a fighter with an injury, and that injury was more than likely keeping that fighter from defending himself to his full ability.
an injury he caused with the throw...
And watching the fight again, Jones landed a LOT OF GNP…. i didn’t think he landed as many strikes til watching sober… And the striking wasn’t tremendous, but Jones landed a good body kick, and kept range with a decent jab.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
That would have been a warning in any other fight, not a point deduction. Points are deducted from repeat offenders. I think that the warning wasn’t even issued here because it was so obvious that it was unintentional. Where the Hamil’s elbows were intentional, while ignorant of the rules.
Maz went straight to a point deduction in this case before the fight was ended...
without warning.
The point deduction is becoming more and more common without warning.
Well, he did it after the second elbow, not the first; and as I stated, this was an obvious example of an illegal elbow (albeit in ignorance). The other one was clearly going for the side of the head before Bonnar sort of ducked it. I could’ve understood the warning, but not the point deduction.
It’s like the difference between speeding because you didn’t see the sign, and speeding because your brakes went out going downhill.
by Dooda on Dec 7, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He should not have lost a point in the Bonnar fight. Is there any precedent for a standing fighter hitting another standing (albeit slightly ducking) fighter in the back of the head and having a point taken away with no warning first?
The only similar precendent that I can think of is...
knees to the head of downed opponents. The recent ones have been where fighter A is intending to deliver the knee to a non-downed opponent, however fighter B becomes downed prior to the impact. The important similarity is that fighter A’s intention (a legal blow) does not override the result (an illegal blow), which is the same thing that happened in the Jones-Bonnar fight.
Jones may have intended to deliver a spinning elbow to the side of Bonnar’s head, but he ended up landing a devastating blow to the back of Bonnar’s head that probably affected the rest of the fight. While not intentionally, there needs to be a penalty to both keep the offending fighter from unduly benefiting from their transgression as well as inspiring them to fix their technique.
Case in point, Jones tried the same elbow in this fight.
lemme go ahead and give you this
be sure to wash ur hands :P
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
Except...
Fedor is the one that got cut and Bones is the one who did the cutting :)
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
Jones v A. Silva
I know this is crazy talk, but do you guys think it would be good for Jones’ career to fight a Silva? I agree with earlier statements that it is too early for him to fight a Machida, etc. However, I don’t really see a Jones v. Vera fight as interesting. While it might be interesting to see a muy thai guy like Vera, I think it would be interesting to see an in your face sizzler like Jones go after a counterstriker sizzler like Anderson. It would be like true cock fighting but man would that be an exciting fight.
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