Elbows Huah! What are they good for?
by Warhand on Dec 6, 2009 3:40 PM EST
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PrintElbows rarely KO an opponent (unless your Anderson Silve in "Cage Rage"). They have great potential to end a good fight due to a cut. Most promotions do not allow elbows on the ground nor standing. Do we really need them in the UFC? I would like to read some of your reasons for the allowance of elbows. Blood is cool and all but it sucks when a competitor with plenty of fight left in them gets cut and can't continue. Leave a comment or just take the poll below.
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Please tell me some fights that were stopped by elbows.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
What do you mean “stopped”?
Due to a cut from an elbow? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the same one everyone else thinks of. Florian/Karalexis.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Tito/Ken 2 & 3 were stopped by elbow strikes, but neither cuts nor the doctors were the deciding factors.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 6, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
quarry vs mcdonald lots of blood but a ref stoppage
by mr. gogoplata on Dec 6, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
How many times have people watched PRIDE, DREAM, or Sengoku, and said or posted “Damn, if only they allowed elbows!”
It adds to the GnP, makes it more exciting. Tito made his career on them from the guard.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 6, 2009 4:04 PM EST reply actions
Many times.
I have also thought that north/south knees to the head would be delicious as well.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
The problem with knees to the head (esp. N/S) are the high risk of spinal damage – that’s the same impact as spearing in American football, which is illegal to protect the tackler, not the tackled. I still favor knees, but they’re not ready for mainstream consumption yet.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 6, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
How many times have people watched PRIDE, DREAM, or Sengoku, and said or posted "Damn, if only they allowed elbows!"
Don’t forget Strikeforce, the Shields-Mayhem fight may have actually been somewhat less sleep-inducing with some ’bows.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
To be honest
I think Shields could’ve finished Mayhem if he could’ve used elbows. Watch any Shields fight where elbows are allowed, and you can see that they’re quite central to his game
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Dec 6, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
No doubt
I remember thinking that during their fight.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Someone just posted this tidbit in the Kizer video thread
The UFC and DREAM had the same amount of cut stoppages last year: Three.
by Tedd Welch on Dec 6, 2009 4:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
srsly?
Elbow are good. So rare is it that a fight is stopped by a cut, and when it is, it’s because the d00d throwing elbows is hurting the guy. It’s not like cutting someone with a sharp strike is considered some form of cheating in a combat sport.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Kimbo ate one last night in the third round, it looked painful.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 6, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
If elbows cause so many fights to end due to unnecessary cuts, please explain how Dream and the UFC have had the same amount of cut stoppages in this calendar year.
Thank you.
This was a good point when “Tedd Welch” referenced it an hour before you 5 or 6 posts up. Now you’re just showing that you are too lazy to read a few comments before repeating something someone else has said.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
didn't the UFC had farrrrrrr more cards this year?
If it’s true that they had the same amount of cuts this year, then DREAM does have a much bigger percentage of fights ending with cuts..
thank you.
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 6, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
That’s sort of the point.
If the elbows cause so many cuts that stop fights, an org that allows elbows would have a higher rate of fights stopped by cut. I just looked through fightfinder for the year and looked at TKO cut and tried to find coverage of NC’s and TKO injuries, I came up with 3 cut stoppages in each. I’m not sure if the one’s that said TKO cut were even due to elbows, which is sort of the point.
People arguing that they stop too many fights just don’t have the numbers to back it up. Fights are hardly ever stopped because of cuts, and when they are, it isn’t always because of an elbow.
DREAM has tons of kicks and stomps that cause them..
Mayhem vs Jacare for instance
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 6, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
But it shouldn’t have been.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Ill have a go at explaining it. BJ v Stevenson compared to Mayhem v Jacare. Dream is far more likely to stop a fight due to cut than the UFC from what Ive seen. Why?? I have no idea.
OK. Taking that into account. Why remove the elbows?
If it’s harder to get a cut stoppage in the US, why should we be worried about strikes that cause cuts?
I dunno. Its all personal opinion really. I dont personally see the value in them. Restricting elbows encourages a more tactical striking approach from top position instead of simply reigning down overpowering elbows. I enjoy the tactical battles when fighters can sit up in the guard and look to creatively sneak punches through the defense. I dont like cuts influencing fights. The stats dont lie and cuts havent ended that many fights but they do happen with relative frequency due to elbows. Its something I could clearly do without when the strike itself often simply a glancing blow.
I dislike elbows for the same reason I dislike headbutts. They can be delivered cheaply and cut easily.
But each to their own I guess.
Cultural bias against messy bodily fluids.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 7, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
I hate removing moves from a fighter’s arsenal because i dont like the idea that MMA doesnt closely resemble a 1 on 1 street fight without the clearly unsportsmanlike fouls (eyegouging, biting, etc.). What i love about MMA is that fighters havent developed to specialize within an arbitrary rule set (Ive been trying to properly describe what i mean for like 5 minutes and thats the best i can come up with).
When you remove elbows you start to take away some of the effectiveness of side control like has already happened to North-South with the removal of knees. Or maybe thats just me.
i dont like the idea that MMA doesnt closely resemble a 1 on 1 street fight without the clearly unsportsmanlike fouls (eyegouging, biting, etc.).
MMA isn’t streetfighting, its a sport. Thats a good thing, and its why the whole “without the clearly unsportsmanlike fouls” comes into play. Have you ever seen a streetfight?
What i love about MMA is that fighters havent developed to specialize within an arbitrary rule set
Yeah they have… and thats not always a bad thing. Thats what happens when athletes compete in sports. Its also the reason so many former wrestlers are able to pin their opponents for the majority of a fight and earn decision victories. They are gaming the unified rules.
You can go here to see the unified rules, and just how many rules and prohibitions there are in MMA, just in case you actually believe the last sentence I quoted.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Dec 7, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
I’m with you. I hate when a fighters only defense is to turtle up in front of their opponent so no knees or kicks can be used to finish. It’s frustrating to see so many opportunities to finish a fight dissappear because of it.
by HappyLittleTreez on Dec 8, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Armbars never KO an opponent. They have great potential to end a good fight due to a broken arm. Broken arms are cool and all but it sucks when a competitor with plenty of fight left in them gets a broken arm and can’t continue.
by George Lucas on Dec 7, 2009 5:28 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Ridiculous poll
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
This comment is really insightful and is a brilliant contribution to the discussion.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Sometimes elaboration is simply not necessary.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Dec 10, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Relax guys.
It’s just a poll. It is really nothing to get angry about. It will have no effect whatsoever on whether or not elbows are allowed in the UFC. For the record, I am a big fan of elbow strikes, standing and on the ground.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
The last UFC fight stopped due to elbow cut...
… was at UFC 61, in July 2006.
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