The Ultimate Fighter Season 10 Finale Gets Panned by the Critics
by Kid Nate on Dec 6, 2009 2:20 PM EST
in MMA News
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When the ratings come in, I'm sure we'll learn that this was one of the most-watched MMA shows in American television history. Does anyone think this show was MMA putting its best foot forward?
I sure don't. I don't think Kimbo has much to be proud of in his win over Alexander. I think Hamill would be the first to tell you that he doesn't have much to be proud of in his win over Jones. I admit that I laughed when Roy Nelson came out to "Fat," but I don't think his inability to get himself into shape reflects very well on him, on the UFC or on MMA. And I think the sport should be trying to attract fans on its own merits, not by bringing in former NFL players like Jones, Matt Mitrione or, in the case of Strikeforce, Herschel Walker.
I have to disagree with Smith about Roy Nelson, he's clearly in excellent physical condition, he's just fat. He's always had strong cardio endurance and is quite physically powerful, to me that's "in shape". As we saw in this season of TUF, just because you have chiseled abs doesn't mean you're ready to go three five minute rounds.
I also disagree about the influx of NFL players, with the exception of Herschel Walker. I think that Schaub, Mitrione and Jones are legitimate prospects in a talent thin heavyweight division and they earned their place in the UFC by doing well on the show. Jones, due to his age and his terrible striking and lack of chin, seems to have very little future in MMA. But that's too bad because he shows a great deal of promise with his takedowns and jiu jitsu game. If he were 26 instead of 36 he might be able to fix his standup enough to compete.
It may be silly for NFL players to try to become pro boxers, but that is because boxing, like wrestling, jiu jitsu, kickboxing, judo or any of the other component sports of MMA is a highly specialized art. MMA on the other hand is the decathalon of combat sports, you don't have to be excellent at any one aspect if you can combine enough assets at a variety of components to fight effectively at a high level. As MMA becomes more popular and lucrative it will naturally begin to draw heavyweight fighters who competed at the NFL level. Just as it began to draw in amateur wrestlers early on because there is NO money in amateur wrestling.
Josh Gross also bags on Nelson:
He entered the reality show reeling from consecutive losses in 2008 (a KO against Andrei Arlovski followed by a three-round decision to Jeff Monson) with the chance to resurrect his career. And, as many projected, he made the most of it. Yet judging from the assembled talent of an improving UFC heavyweight class, it seems unlikely Nelson, a former International Fight League champion, will have much of an impact.
With his biggest rival, Ben Rothwell, getting run over in the UFC by Cain Velasquez in October, Nelson's potential against similar opposition seems stunted at best. Don't expect him to be coddled. He may get lucky if the UFC chooses to rematch him against Kevin "Kimbo Slice" Ferguson, whom Nelson defeated early in the Season 10 tournament, but sooner than later the newest TUF winner will fight out of his league.
I have to differ strongly. Compared to other TUF winners like Amir Sadollah, James Wilks, Mac Danzig or Kendall Grove who will clearly never be factors in their respective divisions, Nelson could be credibly matched up with all but the very top of the UFC heavyweight division, right now, today.
I might be the only Big Country fan in the country, but I'm sticking to my guns. The guy can fight and I don't care that he's tubby or a bit of a jerk who tries to be funny and isn't.
I do agree that the TUF 10 Finale was a bit of an ugly mess with the Kimbo/Houston Alexander fight being a stone dud and Jon Jones stupidly getting himself disqualified in a fight that should have been his coming out party as a contender at 205lbs. But for this fan, Roy Nelson's knock out win over Brendan Schaub went a long way toward redeeming the night.
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Gross fails to mention that Roy Nelson fucking BEAT Jeff Monson. He got completely bullshit robbed in that decision.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 6, 2009 2:24 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I love how writers do that. Months from now Gross will be writing about how Jon Jones couldn’t beat a wrestler like Matt Hamill.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 6, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
i agree with everything in this article. People are always talking about Roy like hes just some fat out of shape slob. Sure he may have a bit of a gut but hes still got good conditioning and is able to move around pretty well
by brazary on Dec 6, 2009 2:25 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
After watching some of the ripped TUF wannabes gas faster than Phil Baroni, I’d go easy with blaming Roy being out of shape. Sure, he could afford to lose quite a pile of pounds, but a) he makes weight, b) probably couldn’t make 205 anyway and c) he does bring the goods.
He’s not going to beat Lesnar, Mir, Carwin or Big Nog. Against just about anyone else in the UFC HW division… he’d be at the very least a live underdog. A very, very live dog indeed.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Dec 6, 2009 2:26 PM EST reply actions
After a whole season of sub par fights should we really be surpised that the Finals were a card filled with bad fights.
Add to the fact the awkward but warranted DQ of Jon Jones
and
The Kimbo vs. Houston (a match-up of two one dimensional fighters) fell flat as the keynote fight of the night
At best this card gets a C grade
Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ultmma
Did we forget ??
Nelson beat Mir in a grappling match already..
I think he could hold his own against Mir, personally.. Mir’s best weapon is his grappling, which Nelson is just as sufficient with, IMO.
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on Dec 6, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not to be confused with..
Nelson being able to hang with an elite striker or wrestler… Brock and Cain would smother him pretty easily.. Roy doesn’t seem to do to well being pinned on his back. He has a good ground game, but from his back is not his strong point. Brock is too fast and strong for him and would put him down within 10 seconds and pound him out..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
You can say that about most any match-up against Brock.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 6, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Even Joe Rogan knows
That fighters who look like bodybuilders are usually fastest to gas.
Having said that, although Nelson uses his weight as a strategic advantage with wet blanket top control i’m curious if he could survive a 5 round war with a better athlete.
Roy is hilarious and awesome.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
by Ubernoober on Dec 6, 2009 2:27 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
..
I have to differ strongly. Compared to other TUF winners like Amir Sadollah, James Wilks, Mac Danzig or Kendall Grove who will clearly never be factors in their respective divisions, Nelson could be credibly matched up with all but the very top of the UFC heavyweight division, right now, today.
completely agree… Nelson has proven durable (he took the Arlovski fight on 7 days notice), and has already fought competitively on the world stage for the past 2 years.
asthetics mean a lot
in a job where you punch a man in the face while holding his neck
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
I might be the only Big Country fan in the country
Not by a long shot. Roy was obviously coasting during the show. He got criticized by many for playing pattycake with Kimbo’s head, but, as he said he wasn’t going to break his hand on Kimbo’s skull in his first fight. He did what he had to to win.
If you’ve seen any of Roy’s fights before TUF you know he can fight.
http://www.joost.com/052iorp/t/Josh-Curran-vs-Roy-Nelson-from-bodogFight#id=052iorp
Roy’s weight is a great weapon. He has the endurance and knockout power to match.
He can (and has) out-grappled Mir, so I see him being fairly dominant.
"Negative, negative. I gotta stay lean and lightning and ready to fight." Capt. H.M. Murdock
i think of the whole "weight" issue
the same way i do brock, he has the mass and he knows how to use it, doesn’t matter if a tonne is a square, or a circle
its still a tonne
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Dec 6, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Roy is utilizes his
weight the same fashion that a sumo wrestler does. He has a solid muscle base and a killer skill set. Knocking him for his weight makes as much sense as ripping a guy for developing any other advantage like punching power or take down defense.
"The ball always seems to find Ed Reed...The man is a menace"
by UMBC Oriole fan on Dec 6, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don't get the hate on Nelson
He works extremely hard, took an opportunity that by all accounts sucks (enterting the TUF house), won the show in dominant fashion and is a legitimate fight against pretty much everyone in the heavyweight division. Gross saying his luck will run out and he will be set up against a guy like Cain is ludicrous, Cain has a specific skill that makes him a near impossible matchup for all but the bigger wrestlers like Brock and Carwin.
Nelson is a welcome addition to the heavyweight addition. He’s a self-made fighter who has deserved to be in the UFC for a while and is just now getting his opportunity. I’ll be rooting for him for sure.
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
Nelson would have, by far
the best ground game of any opponent Cain Velasquez has ever had.
Just saying.
I think he could beat him.
Gross and every at Sherdog
Have always had a hate on for Roy, I don’t get it. People just love to pick on fat people I guess. The dude is SICK on the ground and hits like a ton of bricks.
How is this not Rec’d through the roof?
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
Cuz this one is better?
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 6, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I'd rec this...
If he were wearing the “Sweater of Doom”. Too bad. You lose.
by timetosaygoodbye on Dec 6, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
I love Big Country and I would shorten that list a little of who he couldnt compete with in the UFC. I would love to see him and big nog go at it. I know he didnt show it much on the show but Roys bjj is among the best of any heavyweight. Cain couldnt knock him out and yes he could probably take him down with ease but Nelsons guard is not somewhere Cain would want to be. He already beat Mir in a grappling tourney so unless you think Mir can knock him out I dont see Mir being much of a threat. Really I only see Carwin and Lesnar being pretty impossible for Roy to beat based on size, strength and wrestling ability.
Roy Nelson
I think he got robbed in the AA fight, Nelson had AA on the ground (in his world) then the ref stood up the fight for NO REASON and Nelson got KO’ed. And on a side note, his loss against Rothwell was very questionable. So in conclusion, Roy is a very underated fighter and could probably hang with the best of them.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
I want to see Nelson vs Kongo, the ultimate disparity in looks possible.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
i think alistarvin marvin has had enough
dont you?
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Dec 6, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with Smith & Gross and disagree with Nate
I think Nelson is one of the more overrated TUF champions in history. I think landing the perfect punch against a 4-0 running back does anything to lower my belief. His wins over Kimbo and McSweeney were predictable and his Fight with Wren was a very controversial win(a 6-1 fighter that had not fought in a year) . Nelson was 13-4, had the most fights, the most wins and most experience. The result reflected that. But I think he will be lucky to crack the top 20, let alone the top ten.
everyone is entitled to their opinions. even wrong ones.
by b2tharad on Dec 6, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wren win controversial?
Watch it again, he picked him apart, Wren was just swinging wildly and carelessly.
You’re just jealous of his physique.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
by Ubernoober on Dec 6, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You do know that Roy Nelson has already been in the top 20 right? He may not be fighting Brock any time soon but he’s already proven himself to be a top 20 fighter. Roy was ranked a top 20 fighter before he was ever on TUF, hell he was a freaking ringer on the show, he was way beyond those guys and didn’t have to try too hard to win those fights.
by who me on Dec 6, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah his wins over
Kimbo and McSweeney were predictable. Everyone saw what he was doing as soon as he got the take down…and neither could stop him. I don’t see that as a knock on Nelson at all. I mean, what the hell was he suppose to do? Make his opponents look good for a round and then tear them apart methodically?
Hell, at least Roy won his fights and backed up his talk. Wes Sims looked like an amateur in his lone fight.
"The ball always seems to find Ed Reed...The man is a menace"
by UMBC Oriole fan on Dec 6, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
He's already a top 15 fighter in my eyes
Unlucky to not crack the top 10 imo.
There’s nothing special about winning a heavyweight season imo but he’s NOT one of the more overrated TUF champions. I’d say he did much more then Mac Danzig to win. I think Roy coasted a bit but he did beat more “athletic” guys. Besides that point, he was competitive versus AA and Monson.
Get over it, he’s a good if not great fighter.
AWmusic - mp3 blog.
http://twitter.com/awmusicblog
I’d say he did much more then Mac Danzig to win
I disagree. Danzig submitted every one of his opponents in the tournament, went into the final as a guy undersized for a lightweight against a big wrestler who cuts to 170, and beat him by outwrestling him.
Roy beating guys who only looked more athletic < Danzig finishing guys that were actually quite a bit bigger.
by JRN on Dec 6, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
The last time I saw Danzig fight, he was KTFO’d by Danny Marianino
"Mindwarp earthlings seek to change our path" - Nick Blinko
oh soits much better if the guy
“looks bigger”
than if he “looks more athletic”
oy, gimmie a break
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Dec 6, 2009 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
The people Mac fought actually were bigger than him. It was a 170 lb. season and Mac is a small lightweight.
A real difference is better than a perceived difference. Oy.
by JRN on Dec 6, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
doesn't change the fact though
that sayin the guys roy beat only “looked more athletic” schaub is a superb specimen and to push him aside like “oh he only looks athletic” is pretty unfair
also comparing a heavyweight season to a 170lb season in relation to how easy it is to win is retarded
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Dec 6, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Well since 2 of his losses where to Monson and Rothwell and could generously be called controversial (he was robbed against Monson) and another loss was after giving Arlovski all he could handle, not to mention beating Mir in a grappling match, I don’t think we have to worry if Roy can thrive against “better” talent.
by John Nash on Dec 6, 2009 3:20 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Not to go off on a segueway but man was he in a different class than the others. It was almost unfair how much more advanced he was. After the finale you realize how much he coasted through it.
by John Nash on Dec 6, 2009 5:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 6, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Roy Nelson was a ringer on TUF, everyone keyed on Kimbo but those other guys should of been peeved with being stuck in there with a top 20 fighter.
by who me on Dec 6, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It kills me that so many people’s opinion of the guy is based on him being fat. If everything was the same and he had the same exact record but he was built like Wes Shivers or Marcus Jones then people would be hanging on his nuts like he was the second coming. The way a guy looks has nothing to do with it, this is cage fighting not a fashion show. He might not wear the UFC belt but the guy has been a ADCC competitor and two of his decision losses were pretty controversial, he deserves a bit of respect at least.
by who me on Dec 6, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We’ve not seen Brock work off of his back (granted he’d even have 30 lbs on Roy in the cage). I’m just sayin.
Those knuckle sandwiches would probably be more than Roy could eat.
"Mindwarp earthlings seek to change our path" - Nick Blinko
This fat thing is getting ridiculous
There’s lots of football players that don’t have the traditional “athletic” body, who sprint for 10 seconds or so and then basically collapse, but we still consider them athletes due to the immense amount of power they generate and the skill in what they do. How is that any different from Roy? Is it because Roy’s sport has guys competing topless? No one ever mentions how in a series plagued with low cardio fighters, Roy never gassed; he was one of the most in shape guys in the house. “Inability to get in shape” is flat out absurd, and I’m really starting to feel bad for Roy.
On a side note, every time I see Roy’s name written out, I read it in my head as “Hoy.”
It doesn’t seem to bother Roy, heck he seems to feed of of it. Being fat is his gimmick, it’s just a shame people who should know better can’t get past that.
I thought the show was great, was it event of the year material? No, not even top 10, but it did what it was supposed to do, serve as a finale for the show, and be Kimbo’s first UFC fight. And honestly, even though the first round of the Kimbo/Houston fight was mind numbing…I was laughing/clapping/awestruck when Kimbo started tooling him in the second round, and in my opinion, that made up for the fight.
And Roy Nelson shut Brendan’s lights OFF…that was a beautiful KO to seal his TUF 10 Championship. MMA Journalists have started letting me down more and more as of late, thank god for sanity here on the BE.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 6, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Other than the 2.5 hours of commercials the TUF 10 finale was pretty entertaining.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
Rec’d. It wasn’t on live here anyway.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi
Oh yeah, but of course, thats typical. Towards the end it got real bad though. I was ready to see Roy whoop that ass, not look at his favorite food commercials. (Double cheeseburger for a dollar? Shoot, Roy is about to have to fight Super Heavy.)
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 6, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t remember any other finales or fight nights being this bad
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
I noticed that when it was an unaired fight they REALLY got heavy on the commercials, also, typically the shows are 2 hours, this one was 3 (I think), and I’m guessing they had to really stretch out the fights. But my issue is with people saying this show sucked because of the fights…the whole “the sky is falling!” trend with MMA journalism is really killing me.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 6, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Roy is like the random fat guy you see with a fine-ass honey on his arm, but instead of having money Roy has fight skillz (and now, money)
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
Nelson made $80K for the Arlovski fight, he probably had a little money before this.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
Is that Padma in your avatar (presumably posing with you)?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 6, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
i wish
/girlfriend slaps me in back of head
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
Is there still a fatwa out on that poor bastard?
"Mindwarp earthlings seek to change our path" - Nick Blinko
I think it’s no longer enforced. He’s become a public figure, speaking out against the theo-fascist regimes in the Middle East.
Though, when he was knighted (not fully, as he’s not a ciziten, but from a former colony), there were worries of assassination.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 6, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I thought the power to rescind the fatwa died with Khomeini back in the early 90’s. Either way, I wouldn’t want to be Rushdie or Theo Van Goh!
"Mindwarp earthlings seek to change our path" - Nick Blinko
Roy should really lose that spare tire, so he’ll be in shape.
by kid_eh on Dec 6, 2009 4:20 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
This was my lol moment of the night. Wouldn’t have been funny had they not done the EXACT same thing.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 6, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Let me introduce you to Byambajav Ulambayar (Pic #8)
International sumo champion. 6’1. 340lbs. Can slowly lift his leg waist high and freeze in that position. Can also perform a full split and then touch his nose to the ground. How many football players can do that? And he looks like “just a fat guy”.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 6, 2009 4:23 PM EST reply actions
Watched a Nat Geo doc on Asashōryū Akinori a while back.
His Agility was insane for someone of his size. He sprinted against one of the film crew and smoked him. Not like a scripted race to make it look like Asashōryū was fast, he is fast.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Sumo wrestlers aren’t given enough credit for their athleticism. In ancient & feudal times, they would hammer planks of wood part-way into the ground, wrap them in ropes, then punch & slap them until they broke to increase their power of pushing their opponents out the ring. Given their weight, they need to be in great shape.
I once watched an international sumo tourney – the Germans were horrifying. Imagine big, hairy German men in those belts…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 6, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sponsoring the tourney, I believe.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 6, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
They would dub him “The Burga King”, and he would have his pick of Japanese chicks.
by MickDawg on Dec 7, 2009 1:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Good stuff Nate. But just wanted to comment on one thing you mentioned:
“Nelson could be credibly matched up with all but the very top of the UFC heavyweight division, right now, today.”
This, to me, speaks more to the heavyweight division than to how exceptional Nelson is as a fighter.
I can’t agree with that. Nelson is, in my opinion, the biggest lock to win a TUF ever…the man has fought top 10 competition and not been a can for them to smash…he personally chose to be on TUF, rather than just walk into the UFC. The man is skilled, will he be champ? I don’t think so, but he’s certainly right there in the thick of things.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 6, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
This, to me, speaks more to the heavyweight division than to how exceptional Nelson is as a fighter.
That’s sad.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 6, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Scrolling down through the comments a lot of people seem perturbed that Nelson’s appearance is made out to be such an issue.
Well maybe you should take it up with Roy because no one makes more of an issue with his fat body than he does. Coming out to Fat by Weird Al, constantly rubbing his belly and the Burger King references I mean come on no one brings it up more than he does.
The finale wasn’t as bad as some make it out to be the Edgar fight wasn’t bad and the Nelson KO was great, but I think the Kimbo fight being pretty bad and the huge disappointment that Tito Ortiz will have his big head on TV for weeks as a coach for season 11 put a damper on the whole event.
Honestly I can’t imagine anyone wanting to listen to Tito on Spike week after week or wanting to see a 3rd Chuck/Tito fight.
I hope he gets a “fat pride” tattoo so we can talk about this some more.
10/24
by spectaa on Dec 6, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
If he wants to have fun being fat then so be it, that doesn’t mean that people should be acting like Roy Nelson being fat is bad for the sport or anything. This is cage fighting, his appearance is irrelevant and the fact that he likes to poke fun at himself doesn’t mean that it’s ok for others to be stupid and make a bigger deal about his belly than his actual fighting skill.
I think you're missing the point
It’s okay for him to be fat and in deceptive shape, but he has to be ashamed of it.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 6, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
So it’s Roy’s fault because he’s not hiding behind the Burger King crying while he eats those Whoppers? :D
I think if he were less vocal, nobody would even notice that he’s fat.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Really?
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi
This makes me want to gain 100 pounds just so I can do this.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 6, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Neither
It’s a small hippo.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
It's a pomaceous fruit, most likely a pear
"Mindwarp earthlings seek to change our path" - Nick Blinko
Making jokes about it is fine
But there’s people out there that bash him as a fighter, saying that he’s lazy and unprofessional, based solely on his looks. THAT is the problem.
The truth on Roy is simple. He’s nowhere near as good as a lot of people make him out to be, and nowhere near as bad as many others make him out to be.
That being said, Marcus Jones as a prospect? Come on now Nate. The dude is too old and has worse stand-up than I do…he’s going nowhere
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 6, 2009 5:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
That being said, Marcus Jones as a prospect? Come on now Nate. The dude is too old and has worse stand-up than I do…he’s going nowhere
Which is more sad than anything, because I really like the guy. That striking is just mind-boggling; “This guy is hitting me, I’ll lean forward, face down and drop my hands!”
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
In fairness, Nate did backtrack in the very next sentence:
Jones, due to his age and his terrible striking and lack of chin, seems to have very little future in MMA.
Perhaps he should stick to working on his BJJ and maybe compete in some grappling tourneys.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
And also
While you do have a decent chin Brent you don’t have the best technique and your power is very suspect, I’m not sure I’d say that your stand-up is definitively better than Big Baby’s at this point.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
You’ve sparred with him or something?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 6, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
How did I not see that?
I honest to god launched into an internal monologue and was so busy with deciding if it was fair to call Jones a prospect that I went into “I see words but don’t understand them” mode.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 6, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
lol
He’s an intriguing prospect because of his size and strength and the seeming ease with which he’s picking up jiu jitsu and judo techniques. Unfortunately his stand up is worse than awful and he’s too old to improve. Also you really can’t develop a chin.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
What’s the learning curve for mma striking if you’re primarily a wrestler or grappler? I know if you don’t pick up a pair of gloves by 11 it’s almost impossible to develop the skills needed to go anywhere in boxing. But it seems a lot wrestlers with no striking background pick up decent (by mma standards) boxing in a short amount of time.
by John Nash on Dec 6, 2009 10:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Unfortunately his stand up is worse than awful and he’s too old to improve. Also you really can’t develop a chin.
Reminds of that dude who beat Houston.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
Id be curious to see what he could do with a real camp working his stand up. I really dont think Rampage and Tiki were helping him a whole lot.
Im not sure if theres enough time to fix his awful stand-up, weak chin, and poor reaction to getting hit in the face before hes too old to fight but im still curious to see what he can turn into. Not sure if the UFC is the correct venue for this to be seen though.
We have MMA critcs now? Great.....
And I’m NOT a Josh Gross fan.
His holier then thou’ attitude about the sport rubs me the wrong way.
We get it Josh, you’ve covered the sport for a long time.
And your rankings suck
by SidHartman on Dec 6, 2009 5:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Concurring Opinion
I have to agree with you KN. I don’t see why these guys don’t give Nelson a little more credit. He’s fat – it isn’t like he’s talentless. There are quite a few sports who have had their respective “fat-man” (foreman – boxing; wells – baseball; don’t have enough room to list all the fatties playing pro football). I realize that nelson may be a different type of fat than say a nose tackle or an O lineman – but when you rag on him because you think he will do further damage to MMA’s image in the mind of some critics with an already-less than complimentary opinion about MMA – then you’re just as bad as those critics. It should be a proud day for fat people across the nation right now! Also, regarding Michael David Smith’s comments – how about talking about the technician “Frankie Edgar” – a guy that should probably be WECin it but instead he’s taking on physically stronger guys in the UFC – like Matt Veach? Are how about that Mr. Fat Man finally showed off some of his stand up skill for the casual fans of the UFC against one of the more talented stand up fighter on the show this year? O well – I would have bitched on M.David Smith’s site but I don’t want to create an AOL account
This is delusional
I have to disagree with Smith about Roy Nelson, he’s clearly in excellent physical condition, he’s just fat.
The man is clinically obese. Is he still an impressive athlete? Sure. But to say that he’s in excellent physical condition is prima facie absurd.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Clinically obese? You’ve seen his medical charts?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 6, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
According to the BMI so is Brock Lesnar. Unless you actually know Nelson’s body fat percentage perhaps you should back off there a bit.
But dude, Brock Lesnar has, like, really big muscles!!!!
by JRN on Dec 6, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
Imagine how huge he’ll be when he gets that 40% back.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Thats what she said.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 6, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
I say the doctor told me the same thing.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
Yep, heck there was a study done in 2005 using BMI and death rates and it turned out that overweight people actually have a lower risk of death than normal weight people and being underweight had a higher death risk than being obese. That’s what you get when you start with a flawed measurement system.
BMI is functionally useless.
Anyone who is arguing that Roy Nelson isn’t obese is deceiving themselves. He’s 264 at 6’ tall. This isn’t a matter of someone who has bulked up so much that he’s deceptively large because of his musculature — the man is simply fat. Why this board needs to continually try and rationalize or justify that is beyond me. Roy Nelson being fat and Roy Nelson being a very good fighter are not mutually exclusive.
You can even make the argument that him being overweight is advantageous in that it allows him to pin people more effectively. He’s a skilled BJJ practitioner and he’s got some heavy hands. He belongs in the UFC. I’m not arguing that. What you, Kid Nate and others seem unable to accept is that the man is not in excellent physical condition and every doctor worth his salt would tell Roy Nelson that it’s in his best overall interest to reduce his body fat because it’s unhealthy in the long run.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I think what you don’t get is that as far as fighting goes who gives a shit about the guys weight. It should be irrelevant to discussions of him as a fighter and it’s really getting old that it seems like him being fat is all people can see. Of course even if the guy is just plain obese in every single measure then what does that have to do with him fighting and why would anyone judge him on that? Why should anyone even care?
Is he carrying some extra weight, sure but good grief that doesn’t mean that the guy isn’t in excellent physical condition otherwise, hell he’s probably in better physical condition than 90% of the people who post here. The reason why BMI doesn’t work is that you can’t just pigeon hole people’s health like that. There is a hell of a lot more to this than just looking at someone and saying “that guy is obese”. Are you privy to Roy Nelson’s private medical information? Can you tell me what his cholesterol levels are? How about his body fat percentage? You know that as a professional fighter the guy goes through regular intense physicals and that doctors have picked him over before they even allowed him to get a fighter’s license. Yea every doctor out there is going to tell damn near everyone in the sport that weighs over 185lbs that they need to lose weight and they are going to tell most of the smaller guys that they need to put weight on but then that is what doctors do. That doesn’t tell us anything specific about Roy Nelson’s physical condition it just tells us what the stock reply of all doctors is.
Let's try this again since you're struggling to understand my posts.
I think what you don’t get is that as far as fighting goes who gives a shit about the guys weight.
My initial post was about KidNate saying that Roy was in excellent physical condition but that he’s just fat. It had nothing to do with him being fat as a fighter. In fact, I was explicit that I think Roy is a very good fighter.
The reason why BMI doesn’t work is that you can’t just pigeon hole people’s health like that.
I’m glad we agree that BMI is useless. It would move the conversation forward if you could stop setting this strawman up to knock down. BMI being a poor measure of obesity doesn’t make Roy not fat.
Are you privy to Roy Nelson’s private medical information?
You yourself said he’s carrying extra weight. And if you’re contending that he’s not carrying upwards of 40-50 extra pounds of fat, then there’s no where this conversation can go because we have drastically different opinions. I think you’re being irrational if you can’t admit that Roy has a significant amount of weight he can lose.
Yea every doctor out there is going to tell damn near everyone in the sport that weighs over 185lbs that they need to lose weight and they are going to tell most of the smaller guys that they need to put weight on but then that is what doctors do.
No, they wouldn’t. No one is going to tell elite, fit athletes that have built up muscle to try and lose that muscle. You’re being obtuse to try and justify Roy being fat.
I don’t understand why everyone here has to try and vindicate Roy from being overweight. He owns the fact that he’s fat but he’s got this legion of defenders that take slight at any comment that he may not be in peak physical condition. Does it make him any less of a fighter? That’s a (virtually) unfalsifiable claim either way so we’re left with meaningless conjecture.
Roy is fat. Roy is also a very good fighter. If KidNate wants to say that he’s in “excellent” physical condition and stick with that adjective — then I have a very different connotative interpretation of that word.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Dec 6, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wow, so the TUF finale sucked because the fat guy won?? yea, great opinion article lol
The Kimbo fight, even though the first round was boring, turned out cool
The Jones/Hammill fight was the only downer of the night and it was still pretty action packed, just ended on a weird, sucky for jones, though appropriate note
And the Roy fight was a good fight as well.
The idea that because the guy has a belly makes him some obese fat guy that has to be air lifted out of his room and is just a horrible image for the sport is f-ing stupid. He had better cardio and was in better shape than most of the guys that were all muscled/thinner. God forbid we have someone in the sport that actually doesn’t look like a meathead pumping roids all the time.
I like fighters for more than how they look, maybe there are a lot more fans that watch for the half naked men than I thought and if so, then I can understand their dislike for Roy; do your thing.
But really, if you want to hate Roy b/c he is a crappy fighter, then OK, I can at least understand that view even if I disagree. Maybe for his personality even, even though we aren’t hanging out with these guys, I can get someone rubbing you the wrong way. (Although coming out to Fat and being labeled a Kung Fu Fighter, dont’ know who doesn’t love that) But deciding he is crap b/c he has a belly?? Really? If that is the case, then you put too much stock in your own abs and need to re-examine things.
Can Roy be the UFC HW champ? I doubt it, but then again, a lot of TUF winnners don’t go on to be champs and if so, haven’t been very long. I could see Roy beating certain fighters that might sometime be a champ, but I don’t see him hanging onto the belt long. I don’t see him beating Lesnar. But he can definitely mix it up in the division and can do so a lot sooner than if someone greener had won. Which might be a good thing for the HW division right now in UFC.
Sorry for ranting. But talking about Roy’s physique is about the dumbest thing I usually see in comments, seeing it in a column was just that much more sad.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by JeremyShane on Dec 6, 2009 7:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
they got rid of that ring girl a while ago
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Dec 6, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
His name is Dzhambulat Khotokhov
He’s 4 years old, 3’11", 123 pounds.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
Dzhambulat endorses a Russian tire company, but how did he earn that medal?
"Mindwarp earthlings seek to change our path" - Nick Blinko
Pie eating competition
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
Kid Nate...
I abandoned MDS’ posts on Fanhouse a while back and defected to Bloody Elbow because he seemed to always be so overly subjective. Often giving what he “feels” or “thinks” instead of providing factual or historical observations.
Thank you for posting your artical. I agree with most of your observations. But in your opinion, do you really give MDS credit as a legtimate MMA correspondent/commentator/reporter? I have a hard time doing that.
Forward Ever, Backward Never...
I read MDS daily
and almost always enjoy his perspective.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Dec 6, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Is that Roy doing all the ad’s for this site on the title bar and side bar?
Looks just like his big belly.
Either way, Roy should check out this site, he can learn the secrets to getting ripped in just 4 weeks.
by jcbrewer on Dec 7, 2009 12:06 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
I enjoyed the show live like everyone else and I thought it was cool seeing Roy get his props thruout. I was a lil suprised he was introduced last during the intro of the broadcast. ( a sign of status reserved for the marqui fighter of the night) I think dana has recognized his skills. I can see smith’s point that it is kind of weird to see someone with no pro fights (mitrione) fighting another ex ball player with very limited stand up on the televised broadcast. There really was not over the top moments of excitement the whole night except the Kimbo slam and that was very fleeting.
Despite my lock pick of month pick blowing up in my face I think it’s good for the integrity of the sport that Jones get the DQ for violating rules in a meaningful way. Surprising to hear him say he was unaware of the rule.
Schaub wont underestimate anybody’s punching power after that fight. That’s not exactly the type of set up and punch that golden gloves champ shuold get caught on but I’m sure he’ll bounce back nicely.
Roy has awesome grappling but we saw how a powerfull striker with good TDD like AA get lay the wood on him. I dont think Roy can get a W over Cain, carwin, dos santos,duffee,or mir but i he might match up better against Nog and obviously Buentello.
Next wknd is going to blow the roof off. this wknd was just a shockwave heralding the massive tremors to come.
I'm a Roy Nelson fan....
You know, Roy Nelson really impressed me this season. I don’t care how boring some of his fights were. The fact of the matter is that Roy predicted what he was going to do, how he would do it, and to top it off, he went out on a limb by saying that he was going to win all his fights. He could come off a little cocky, but you know what, he did exactly what he said he was going to do. Then, he comes out and KO’s highly touted B. Schaub. Nelson showed great striking, and when he took Schaub to the ground, he kept him there for some time, controlled him, and even attempted a submission.
Not only is his BJJ world class, but he has good striking, and a solid chin! He uses his jab effectively, and he set’s up his power shots well. Just ask Schaub. He was beating Arlovski, with that same crucifix that he smothered Kimbo with, and the ref. stood them up, cause EliteXC wanted their fights to be standing. If the fight wouldn’t have been taken off the ground, Roy beats Arlovski with a TKO.
I actually think that Roy has a bright future in the UFC. Why? Because he’s a smart fighter! Rothwell just had a bad gameplan against Cain, and he paid the price. Roy would have fought differently. I say Roy could beat Mir, Kongo, and I’m probably going to get heat for this….but I believe that he could even beat Carwin! YES CARWIN! There are too many people jumping on the Carwin banwagon. He is not that great of a fighter people. Now Lesnar, Nog, Dos Santos would be real tough fights. Why? Lesnars speed and explosive wrestling power. Nog’s boxing and his BJJ, which I think is better than Roys and Mirs. Dos Santos power. And I’ll say this; Dos Santos would destroy Carwin! He has a bright future in the UFC!
Good Article
Just because Big Country is a little big doesn’t mean hes a good fighter and well rounded.
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