Where Do You Rank BJ Penn Amongst the Best Ever?

Latter part of top 5, maybe 5

I don’t think i can consider BJ the best ever. But he is definetly top 5. Also I don’t know how much people hate BJ too consider all what he did inside the cage and ring and vote for him to be in the top 20.

BJ is easily the best lightweight fighter in the history of MMA, and one of the most interesting characters in the sport.

Definitely not. There seems to be a serious case of historical ignorance going on here.

I think best of all time right now has to be between Fedor, Sakuraba and Royce. Nog is close as well.

BJ – not there yet. If he eventually beats GSP or conquers the light weight division for 10 defences or something then maybe he’ll be in the top 3.

He’s at the bottom of the Top 5. There’s no argument for him to be higher than Fedor, GSP, or Anderson.

Why does everyone have Wanderlei above Chuck?

I’d say he ranks in the top 5-10 simply because I can’t think of a better lightweight fighter. I feel the love for BJ on this board although I’m always a bit baffled by BJ fans. BJ fans in general seem to view Penn’s career much like overly religious athletes view “god” — god gets all of the praise when things go well, but his failure to bring about a good result is excused away, or simply not addressed, when things go badly. To many, Penn is the most talented fighter in the world, but that talent is evident only in his victories. In his defeats he simply didn’t train hard enough or he was giving away too much weight., or he was too green, etc. In the eyes of the true believers (who would preposterously suggest with a straight face that BJ should be potentially considered the GOAT), it’s as if those losses never occurred, their existence having been banished to the deepest recesses of their minds.

To be fair to Penn, I can see explaining away the Machida loss. Machida was a lot bigger than Penn, but that’s not the whole story. He’s not just bigger he’s also probably a fair amount better on his feet than Penn (Freddy Roach’s assessment of his boxing be damned). Penn was also out- struck, wrestled and grappled by GSP. Regardless of the size differential, BJ was getting dominated in all phases of the game in the second fight (and the first fight as well, with the exception of an eye poke / scratch and clipping GSP’s nose in the first round). He also lost to Matt Hughes whose career is coming under much more careful scrutiny these days; in his peak years he just wasn’t quite the world beater we remember him to be but rather a decent wrestler with a good gas tank and decent BJJ but who faced limited top level competition when he was on top. And everyone has off nights but how do you explain the draw against Caol Uno? And can anyone honestly say that BJ Penn would be a betting favorite against any of the top 4 welterweights?

All of the above is just to say that BJ is not and will likely never be the best. His record is far too spotty to warrant such talk. Nevertheless he has the best top game in the business, his boxing is good but his striking for MMA is hardly multifaceted, his chin is exceptional and his takedown defense in the first couple rounds is outstanding. His victories against Sherk and Florian were impressive. Let’s see what he does against Diego. I can’t predict how he’ll do but I can predict that win or lose talk of BJ Penn’s being the GOAT at LW or any weight will persist among the true believers.

Lastly, why do people conflate “well-rounded” w/ “all-time great”? I don’t give a tinker’s damn if Anderson Silva never takes anyone down. He destroys them on the feet, and hasn’t been beaten on the ground since his DQ. Silva is definitely obviously w/o a shadow of a doubt the greatest MW thus far. Similarly, who cares if BJ throws kicks, or is technical at all? So far, at LW he has been very dominant standing up.

Somewhere between 5 – 10 for me……currently. He simply hasnt won enough fights and has lost too many to go right into the top 5. By the time his career is said and done, maybe he will be higher but not at the moment imo.

Where’s the love for all the old schoolers like Frank Shamrock who held title in 4 major fighting organizations, or Bas Rutten, the most dominant fighter of Pancrase? Or Kazushi Sakarabu who was unstoppable in the early PRIDE years and still continues to win today? Matt Hughes anyone? Top 5 fighter on anyone’s list.

Just because past fighters aren’t relevant today doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have their hard-fought (pun intended) place in history.

That being said BJ is a top 10 of all time with the potential to be top 5 with a couple more title defences.