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Around SBN: Bracketology 2012: Duke Finally Steps Up To The No. 1 Line

Upset of the Year: Paulo Thiago Knocks Out Josh Koscheck

Photo via UFC.com

Ray Hui of Fanhouse has made a list, but let's stick to his #5 choice:

5. Paulo Thiago vs. Josh Koscheck, UFC 95
Paulo Thiago appeared to be someone brought in to keep Josh Koscheck active and the assumption was that Thiago would be another one-and-done in the UFC. Sure, he was perfect in 10 fights coming into his UFC debut, but his fights were against unheard-of local fighters in Brazil. However, with a nasty right uppercut that dropped Koscheck, Thiago propelled himself from an unknown to a title contender -- for better or for worse: Thiago has yet to receive an easy assignment.

I chose this upset to focus on rather than the others on the list because it's the one with the longest lasting impact. The UFC is still trying to repair the damage Thiago wreaked on the division when he knocked Koscheck off the contention track.

Here's what Michael Rome wrote at the time:

At UFC 74, Josh Koscheck lost a tough decision to Georges St. Pierre. St. Pierre was the clear winner, but Koscheck put in the most competitive performance against GSP during St. Pierre's recent streak. According to Dave Meltzer, he was just two wins away from getting a rematch. His shocking loss created a situation in which there are no clear contenders for St. Pierre's title after Thiago Alves.

...

If GSP beats Alves, the welterweight division will rapidly start to resemble the middleweight division, a division with a champion seen as so dominant that his fights are greeted with growing disinterest.

And here we are. Gearing up for Dan Hardy's epic challenge to GSP's throne and wishing there was a "real contender" in the UFC's welterweight division.

In the full entry, we'll see what Brent Brookhouse had to say about how Koscheck messed up.

Star-divide

16a8ppe_medium_mediumFrom Brent Brookhouse's How Not to Punch feature on the fight:

Today's Rule:  You never, ever, ever bend at the waist and look at the ground while throwing a punch.  Especially a "push jab" with little snap behind it.

Look at the action here.  Josh starts by lunging when he throws the jab, his feet leave the ground as he starts to throw the punch.  There is no reason to "jump in" with this punch for starters.  It isn't like a superman punch, you're not gaining any momentum on the jab by hopping forward as you throw it.  A jab is a snap punch, the power on it comes from pumping it and snapping it back.

Next, as he hops he bends at the waist.  I suppose there is an argument to be made that he was "changing angles" but to me it is all part of his getting cocky in not only his new found KO power but in the fact that Thiago hadn't yet been able to really strike with him. Looking at his body positioning I can only guess that he was going to try to wing a big overhand right behind the bunny hop.

Lastly, watch Josh's eyes as he throws the jab.  Where are they?  Is he locked in on his target in Paulo's head?  Is he locked in on Paulo's chest and shoulders to follow any potential counterpunch movement?  No, he is looking downward somewhere between Thiago's legs and the ground.  Josh gave himself no chance to see a punch coming in return and in the end it came down to bad jab vs. solid uppercut.  Guess which one wins that clash damn near every time?

While Thiago's striking was anything but technically sound for the fight up to that point in the fight he was able to sit down on one uppercut that Josh was leaping in to the power of and not looking as it hit him in the jaw.  The reason the old saying "the shot that hurts the most is the one you don't see coming" is true is because you're usually not in a position to defend it although you usually aren't also hopping like a bunny directly into the other guy's power at the same time.

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I love that knockout.

by grein on Dec 29, 2009 10:06 AM EST reply actions  

talk about timing…lol

by NCSAR on Dec 29, 2009 10:08 AM EST reply actions  

What's done is done

but it was an early stoppage. The ref should have allowed Thiago land two more definite punches. Koschek was able to sit up after the knockdown and wasnt totally out.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Dec 29, 2009 10:17 AM EST reply actions  

I agree

I think it was clearly a bad stoppage. He was preparing to use his legs to defend himself and gain guard. He is clearly dazed when he hits the ground, but appears to come to pretty quickly.

by KyleAskine on Dec 29, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL...

at it being an early stoppage & Kos using his legs as he prepares to defend himself. He had no idea where he was or what he was doing.

by William Wilson on Dec 29, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I gotta admit it’s funny when people try and pretend to know what’s impossible to know unless you were the actual person. After he fell back he clearly is about to get up but then looks like he’s rolling back to get him into guard. He’s holding his head up and he looks like he’s getting ready to defend. And even if he didn’t know where he was, if he can defend himself that’s all he needs to know in that moment.

by Dooda on Dec 29, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait...

you admit it is funny when people try to pretend to know what the fighter is doing unless they are the actual person…and then you proceed to tell us that Koscheck was doing.

Kos’ arms went completely limp and he slumped to the ground. He can say he was not out and still willing to go, but his body tells a completely different story.

by William Wilson on Dec 29, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

You didn’t pretend to know what Kos was doing, you claimed to know what he was thinking. Totally different. What he was doing is pretty clear to see on the screen. What I proceeded to tell was exactly what was happening in the gif. Kos’s arms went completely limp for a moment, obviously because he ws dazed, but they snapped back to get ready to get up as he propped his body and his head up. Can you not see that?

by Dooda on Dec 29, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

i think more then anything, Thiago sold the KO …. and from the ref’s perspective, i can see why he stopped it.

"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com

by ekc on Dec 29, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

the refs perspective being behind thiago looking at his back…

by brooksto on Dec 29, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I second this… The ref decided this fight and not the fighters. You let a shot or 2 go to confirm before you stop the fight.

Dan Henderson Practically Climbed the cage and did a randy savage elbow drop on Mike Bisping after he was knocked out. Once your out cold those shots are nothing more than love taps.

by mmalogic on Dec 29, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

http://buuurn.com/

Keep firing Assholes!

Editor of www.downsyndromematuremidgetsheltlandponyporn.com/

by Ubernoober on Dec 29, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to mention Josh was winning every minute of that fight up to that point.

by mmalogic on Dec 29, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

again with this? Josh’s eyes were looking like the answer of a magic 8 ball… all over the place. I know most of you guys don’t like Josh, but you don’t have to wish him brain damage in the process…

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by Orcus on Dec 29, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

just basing on the gif , he clearly wasnt completely out. you can even make the argument that he was ready to defend himself . I like Koscheck by the way.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Dec 29, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I know you do, that was a joke. you have to see other angles on the stoppage though, it was a good call. Even with this gif you can see that Kos was looking up towards the ceiling for a good two seconds, his left leg went limp also. He wasn’t completely out, but you don’t have to be completely out to make that call, this is a sport after all. there was no need for him to get repeated blows to the head.

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by Orcus on Dec 29, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

he could have used one or two more… Worst case we could have seen Koscheck get punched one or two more times. Sounds like a win-win to me.

by mmalogic on Dec 29, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

but not a win-win to Josh :P

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by Orcus on Dec 29, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Worst case scenario, he could have had serious brain damage or died. I agree with the ref’s call.

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on Dec 29, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m generally against unwarranted extra shots but in this case it was “necessary” because Koscheck wasnt completely out imo. Brain damage / death is a weak justification for a bad stoppage.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Dec 29, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

are you saying you’re against stopping a fight unless one of the fighter’s unconscious? How can brain damage and death be a weak justification for a stoppage? Death may be a bit rarer to happen, but they are both possibilities and the reason they don’t happen is because of all the provisions taken such as this one.

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by Orcus on Dec 29, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

How can brain damage and death be a weak justification for a bad stoppage?

because it wasnt meant to be stopped.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Dec 29, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

well, it’s bad in your eyes, but not on the eyes of the referee, not on the eyes of the UFC, and not on the eyes of the majority of the community, only in the eyes of Kos and the minority of the MMA community :P

You still haven’t answered my question though, are you saying you are against stopping a fight unless one of the fighter’s unconscious?

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by Orcus on Dec 29, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

no i’m not. i agree w/ the Maia stoppage. Koscheck , in my eyes, still had the awareness to defend himself.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Dec 29, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Maia wasn’t completly out either. The difference is that Kos fell on his back.

by dancingChicken on Dec 29, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

So if a fighter gets KO’d and lands on his face he’s not completely out, but if they fall to their back they must be out? Not sure I understand what you’re getting at.

by CSKit on Dec 29, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Where did I say that either Maia or Kos were completely out?
All I am saying is that was a good decision to stop the fight.

by dancingChicken on Dec 29, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d prefer to err on the side of caution. MMA is still a very young sport. The last thing we need is something really bad to happen during a UFC event. It would give the haters all the amunition they need to bury MMA. To me a bad stoppage is the shitty one during the Valasquez/Rothwell fight.

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on Dec 29, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Meh.

It definitely threw a wrench in the UFCs short-term plans, but the more I see of Thiago the more it looks like they got another bonafide contender out of that fight. In the long run, I think they will gladly trade some short-term shuffling for getting another guy who can match up against the elite of the division.

by Steve4192 on Dec 29, 2009 10:23 AM EST reply actions  

I dont know… the more I look at him the more he looks like a poor mans John Fitch. Very Durable and just good fighter but not great at anything. And unfortunately John Fitch himself (the original) isnt looking too good either.

by mmalogic on Dec 29, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Jon Fitch is one of the top two or three welterweights in the sport. Being the poor man’s Jon Fitch is not a bad thing.

Plus, Thiago has one thing Fitch does not, concussive power in his fists. The biggest hole in Fitch’s game is if he can’t submit his opponent, he can’t finish a fight. Thiago can submit guys AND he can knock ’em stupid.

by Steve4192 on Dec 29, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

uh...

Save this fight with Kos, Thiago has never knocked anyone out, or even won by TKO aside from some dude’s knee injury. Thiago caught a flash KO here in part because Kos did everything wrong, as Brookhouse explained.

I’ll also add that Fitch’s and Thiago’s inability to finish fights is hurting them drastically in terms of marketability. Same with Jake Shields – we might respect their ability as fighters, but fans don’t want to watch them. They fight “unexciting, even boring fights” and as such promoters do not want them in main events on their cards, because less people will buy tickets/pay for ppv or premium TV to watch them. This was clearly expressed with Shields, as fans changed the channel as his fight with Miller went on.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Dec 29, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you watch the Volkman fight?

He had him rocked badly and doing the fish dance on a number of occasions. He definitely has some power in his hands, regardless of how many KOs you can find on his fight finder entry.

by Steve4192 on Dec 29, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

You just like Waleed Ismael and saying “booolsheeet”.

by mmalogic on Dec 29, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

There is a lot of truth to that

by Steve4192 on Dec 29, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Lots of Ismail’s quotes today on BE…

by dancingChicken on Dec 29, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. Especially when the upper echelon is mostly populated by AKA guys.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Dec 29, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

.I think AKA is on its way out… just like Militech became obsolete so is AKA.. Rough House in England is becoming a force though

Fitch will most likely lose to Alves or BJ Penn.

Koscheck will get his second shot at GSP and that will be the end of that.

And Swick was just beaten up by Hardy.

New blood is coming up and the AKA guys are becoming geezers in MMA years.

Pretty soon guys will be calling out fitch, Kos and Swick to get the easy W just like these weasels were doing with Hughes.

Actually it happened already. Paul Daley was calling out Kos and Swick after he knocked out Kampman. They didnt like it very much. How Ironic.

by mmalogic on Dec 29, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

What about Cain?

"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn

by Tim Burke on Dec 29, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

He’s the diamond in the rough. I dont think he’ll ever be champ or hold the belt long if he ever gets it… but he’ll be a fan and mexican favorite for a very long time.

Mexicans love a guy who gets beat up and keeps fighting.

If you look at cain he’s the only guy AKA managed not to fuck up. Every other guy – they took their great wrestling and turned them into shitty kick boxers. Koscheck should have been the brock lesnar or at least the cain valasquez or more aptly the matt hughes 2.0.

But he’s none of that.

WEAR AND TEAR™ Koscheck was taylor made for this but they fucked him up. Wear the guy down with your wrestling and then bash his face in. Simple but profound.

They tried to do the same with cain but a nice right hand from kongo woke him the fuck up and gave a nice healthy dose of reality… Koscheck hasnt gotten the hint yet.

by mmalogic on Dec 29, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Ironic that Kos hasn’t gotten the hint yet, considering the subject matter of this post.

I wholeheartedly argree with your assessment of Kos, but they didn’t really turn Fitch into a shitty kick boxer. Or Josh Thomson. I agree that the gym might have seen their best days already (especially with the differences they’ve had with Dana), but I don’t think they’ll go the way of MTS.

"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn

by Tim Burke on Dec 29, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed, and MFS. I really need to preview my posts more often.

"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn

by Tim Burke on Dec 29, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I wish I could say I was surprised.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Dec 29, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

This should also be a contender for “Ugliest Punch of the Year”.

by ufc4 on Dec 29, 2009 10:23 AM EST reply actions  

Not being a grammar nazi or nuthin, but…Koscheck is spelled wrong in the title.

"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn

by Tim Burke on Dec 29, 2009 10:37 AM EST reply actions  

Not being a grammar nazi or nuthin

=-)

'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko

by Well Read Idiot on Dec 29, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

No, no you are not.

by CSKit on Dec 29, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I was trying to be helpful, not an a-hole!

"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn

by Tim Burke on Dec 29, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Tim Sylvia vs. Ray Mercer

is a much bigger upset than Josh Koschek vs. Paulo Thiago…

by CSKit on Dec 29, 2009 10:52 AM EST reply actions  

Perhaps that’s why it’s #1 on the list while this fight is #5?

by ufc4 on Dec 29, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I chose this upset to focus on rather than the others on the list because it’s the one with the longest lasting impact. The UFC is still trying to repair the damage Thiago wreaked on the division when he knocked Koscheck off the contention track.

There are words beyond the title

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com

by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 29, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Are there?

I didn’t see the #5 and didn’t read the article at the link you supplied.

by CSKit on Dec 29, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow
“And here we are. Gearing up for Dan Hardy’s epic challenge to GSP’s throne and wishing there was a “real contender” in the UFC’s welterweight division."

Before this post, I had no feelings about Paulo Thiago either way.

Now I hate him.

Thanks, Bloody Elbow!

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.

by jemaleddin on Dec 29, 2009 12:34 PM EST reply actions  

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