UFC 108: A Disastrous Card That Still Matters
by Michael Rome on Dec 29, 2009 11:19 AM EST
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UFC 108 is just a few days away, and the anticipation is nonexistent. If anything, people are almost dreading this show given what it represents: the culmination of a series of injuries leading to disappointing cards and lackluster PPV events. It's hard to blame the UFC for what happened to this card, but you also can't blame fans for refusing to reward cards like this with $50. You can be sure that if this show does a surprisingly high number, it will only encourage the UFC to present weak shows more often in the future.
This is truly the show that will test the North American base number. My suspicion is that the base is somewhere around 300,000 buys, which is still a healthy number, but hitting that base over and over again will push it lower. The only hope for a decent number is Rashad's popularity coming off the reality show, but I'm hard pressed to see this doing better than 325,000, and I wouldn't be surprised if it dipped as low as 260,000 buys.
While everyone knows the buyrate will be bad, the show is still very important because of the main event. A lot rides on Rashad Evans winning in impressive fashion. If he knocks out Silva and calls out Jackson, the Rampage-Rashad fight in May will be gigantic. If Thiago Silva pulls the upset, I don't think the Rampage-Rashad fight goes up in smoke, but the heat behind it will diminish significantly. It will be interesting to see if Jackson makes an appearance at this show.
I think that the lesson the UFC should take from this card is the need to increase flexibility. By the time the card was an unmitigated disaster, it was simply too late to take it off PPV or cancel the show altogether. Such is the price of insisting on scheduling dates well in advance of actually planning cards. In the future, perhaps it would make sense to include provisions in their deals with InDemand and Spike that would allow cards decimated by injuries to be moved to Spike TV to avoid long term damage to the UFC PPV brand.
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I’m gonna call it right now- this will be one of the most exciting cards of the year. A maximum of 3 fights will go to a decision.
This is what I think. This tainted card will turn out to be one of the best in recent memory.
I love me some Sexyama!
You guys keep jinxing it… the reason cards like these always turn out great is because everyone expects them to suck so stop fucking with the formula.
by mmalogic on Dec 29, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
are you superstitious Logic?
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
I know you're joking, but I kinda agree.
Nobody cared much about UFC 95, but it’s one of my favorite UFC cards of the year. Some great KOs, sick Demian Maia sub, and Diego vs. Stevenson was a good war.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
You can be sure that if this show does a surprisingly high number, it will only encourage the UFC to present weak shows more often in the future.
I don’t buy it.
People said the same thing would happen if UFC 78 did a big number, and it clocked in at 400K+ at a time when that considered a really big number. The UFC is not going to intentionally schedule shitty cards if this show does well.
by Steve4192 on Dec 29, 2009 11:16 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
Exactly what I was thinking. I hear that same stance every time the UFC puts on a “lackluster” card and I’ve yet to see them give us intentionally poor cards, sans those poor UK folks.
by Chris Barton on Dec 29, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I agree. It would be shortsighted to do so, and the UFC is nothing if not obsessive about the future.
by Michaelthebox on Dec 29, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
I know I'm in the minority
But I don’t think this is a weak card at all. I’m all in favor for free cards but other than being short on a ME this card is very good IMO from top to bottom. Is it less exciting than what was expected because of the injuries, etc? Yes but I agree with UFC 4 that this will be a very exciting card.
I read and was told that UFC 106 was going to suck ass because there was no ME and I though 106 was a fantastic card to watch for the most part.
People keep mistaking what Rome is saying on this one. It’s not that the fights aren’t compelling. It’s that there is nothing to sell this card to a casual fan…and the casual fans control the buys much more than guys like you and I who enjoy what dos Santos/Yvel means..etc
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 29, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
But even if “only” 260,000 people buy it, if it’s a great card then that’s not a bad thing, those 260,000 people are gonna want to buy the next card and will be telling all their friends about how exciting the last UFC they bought was. Hitting that base number isn’t going to keep pushing it lower if it’s a good show.
Disastrous Card???
I thought that was a bit over the top. While Evans vs. Silva may be the main event, Rome does not mention anything about the other fights. Sorry, you really can not guage anticipation unless you’re avidly checking many MMA forums, blogs or doing online and offline polls.
From a business standpoint, and I’m by and far not a business expert . . . I don’t see why the UFC would decide to transform a PPV into a free-Spike program. That just doesn’t make sense. Oh our champion is injured, so we’re going to give you a mediocre fight card. There have been many non-championship, crowd pleasing fights on UFC undercards.
Happy Holidays and A Happy New Year
by VeeisAnimated on Dec 29, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
If it is compelling to the more "hardcore" fan base
Then why doesn’t Rome write why these matchups are compelling (outside the ME) and give his readers a reason to buy? I know its not his job to sell for the UFC but if the matchups for mma fans really are compelling, write about that. Don’t give more fuel to the “this card sucks” because then the casuals think that even “insiders” think this card sucks.
That isn't our job...
Rome’s piece is about the card’s ability to sell to the masses and what it could mean down the road. Maybe he’s wrong, maybe he’s right. But the one thing that is not anyone’s job is to promote
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 29, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Its not promoting
Its informing. He wrote an article like he had only seen a few mma fights himself and didn’t realize how good the card is. We’ve seen articles on BE that talk about intriguing matchups etc, why to watch, etc. That wasn’t promoting, it was informing.
He actually seems to be advocating not buying the card because if people buy then the UFC will put on other weak cards. And in the big picture, that is my point. It isn’t a weak card. If his job isn’t to promote, then don’t be bias to the other side of that and tear it down.
Oh man...
you’re really really missing the point
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by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 29, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think I am
I think Rome missed his point. His title is “A Disasterous Card that Still Matters”. yet he doesn’t focus on why it matters at all. And jumped from touching on it matters from a buy perspective to why the ME matters. That isn’t why the card matters, but just the ME. And he doesn’t talk about both sides of what the buys will do. His contention is that if it does 300+ buys that its a bad thing and will drive future base buys down. He comments on why fans won’t pay out $50 for a card like this as though he is uneducated, casual fan (I don’t think Rome is an uneducated fan) when the card isn’t bad at all. I just think it was a quick written and poorly formulated piece
by swells2048 on Dec 29, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Uhhhh
He says the card matters because the main event matters. You may disagree, but its not Rome’s job to agree with you.
by Michaelthebox on Dec 29, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say he had to agree with me
He wrote an article that I am giving my opinion about.
I think it is an exciting card as well, with several very meaningful fights. And the UFC is putting the prelims on SPIKE, which is a nice lead-in.
This card doing well won’t convince the UFC of anything. They never intended for the card to be relatively weak. Injuries are beyond control, and the UFC is not holding back any champions from fighting and headlining PPVs. In fact, the UFC has done a great job at finding replacements for injured fighters, and shuffling around guys to keep great fights on a PPV when guys like Gonzaga, Swick, Alves, etc get hurt.
I’m also agreeing with mmalogic below, in that this card will benefit from timing. UFC 106 did poorly for several reasons. But it’s my opinion that now with college football season being over (no great bowl games night of Jan 2, regular season over) and there being a lack of other meaningful events on TV, UFC 108 will do just fine. This is why you don’t cancel a PPV held anywhere from Dec 27-Jan 3, because there’s nothing else for casual fans to watch at that time.
by Hardcharger on Dec 29, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
perhaps it would make sense to include provisions in their deals with InDemand and Spike that would allow cards decimated by injuries to be moved to Spike TV to avoid long term damage to the UFC PPV brand.
great idea, but probably easier said than done…
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Movie Premieres, the demos they target and a host of other factors all influence the buys so planning ahead is a must on ppv shows… and at a certain point canceling will do more harm than putting on a card like UFC 108.
This card will do better than UFC 106. event planning is key to understand what’s going to happen.
Here’s a little exercise: What’s there to do this saturday night? If this saturday night is not a night to just bum around and get together with friends I dont know what is.
Everyone has already seen avatar… Its too cold to go outside, everything is a rerun on TV…
What’s new and live and exciting we could do on saturday night? Gee I dont know… call some friends over and either jerk each other off or watch the UFC?
The simple laws of gravity and a vaccum on saturday night will produce the buys.
It wont be “uber twist my nipples” stellar but it wont be dismal as some are prematurely predicting either.
It will be a pleasant number :)
And alot of people who say they’re probably not going to order… when Saturday Night rolls around and they have to make a decision between a date with their right hand and a night of fights they’ll decide to do BOTH.
It wont be "uber twist my nipples" stellar
Who says it has to be stellar in order to engage in nipple twisting?
Hell, I’m twisting my nipples right now.
All this Wallid talk just got you all hot and bothered, no?
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Dec 29, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm
I think Rashad gets KTFO but he’ll still have more than enough pop to market his match with Rampage, in fact, Rashad’ll only be that much more desperate for a win, etc..
Thiago Silva by KO
Probably 2nd round. The only time Rashad has ever faced a striker as good (better) than Thiago he got knocked out cold. And with all the hoopla with injuries, rampage and TUF 10, no way he shows the necessary improvement to bang with Thiago. or even get him t the ground
just 'cause you pour syrup on shit, don't make it pancakes
when did Thiago become an elite striker? again he was getting beat by mendes and irvin…please quit it with this hype.
by Matthew Roth on Dec 29, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
It's not a bad card at all
But compared to what it was supposed to be, yeah it doesn’t look as good. But if it does 350k-400k it will be pretty good and Rashad on TUF and how much popular he became after this season will probably be the deciding factor in terms of buys
FREE Zuffa product in January. Around 70% of their fights are free next month.
JAN 2 UFC 108: 1 hour prelims FREE + 2 hours of PPV (optional).
10 WEC 46 (stacked): 2 1/2 hours of FREE fights.
11 TUF 20: FREE ON SPIKE. 2-3 hours.
I think people need to put things in perspective.
by snakecharmer1340 on Dec 29, 2009 3:48 PM EST reply actions
Cantwell Pulls out of UFC 108...
MMAWeeklycom
BREAKING: Steve Cantwell out of #UFC108 bout with Vladimir Matyushenko. Searching for new opponent. @ufc @danawhite
http://twitter.com/MMAWeeklycom
MMAWeekly will probably have story up soon.
Luis Cane?
Rodney Wallace would be interesting but I think they would want the biggest name available.
Maybe Forrest.
Not Cane. He got KO’ed pretty bad against Lil Nog about a month ago.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 29, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Woah, they ain’t gettin no Forrest on 4 days notice against a prelim fighter.
by Michaelthebox on Dec 29, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Are we forgetting Evans wrestling?
and is Thiago really an elite striker? I think Shad is the faster man and can decide where the fight will end up. That is IF he decides. I don’t see him abandoning his strength like in the Machida fight.
I’d have to be a fool to think this card is a disaster or lacks potentially great fights. At the least this is an above average lineup. Considering the UFC jinx I think even the casual fan will have a good time with this card. I really didn’t enjoy the one sided beat downs that the current champs have doled out recently so a card full of potential back and forth battles is highly acceptable.
Are we forgetting Evans wrestling?
Rashad is the only one likely to forget Rashad’s wrestling.
by woomikee on Dec 29, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
So...
did Rashad take all you guys lunch money as a kid? I don’t even like Sugar…but cmon.
Thiago has subbed one guy by heel hook. I think Evans will be just fine on the ground against Silva. I can’t believe your making me defend “Sugar” Rashad. Damn you!
Please explain to me the Thiago Silva hype…I know his record and opponents. Rampage ain’t walking into that cage.
I’m not making you defend anything, it’s stupid to make comments about rashad not using his wrestling lately because he hasn’t been in a fight where he should have.
he used takedowns against ortiz and bisping, and then he clowned chuck and forrest on the feet, people act like he’s given up on his wrestling when he hasn’t been in a situation to use it lately.
I think Evans should always use his base skillset. Kos recently had success against Anthony Johnson because he used his wrestling, setting up the sub. I think all wrestling based fighters shouldn’t stray from their strength just based on their infatuation with striking. I feel like Evans would have been better off testing Machida’s takedown defense than trying to best a natural counterstriker in his prime.
Wrestling is not the act of taking people down, Chuck used his wrestling his whole career to keep fights standing.
I don’t know why you’d call it an infatuation with standing. Why take a fight to the ground if you don’t have to?
If you can beat someone on the feet you shouldn’t have to take someone down just because you have a wrestling backgorund.
Why are you pretending like the Machida fight never happened? Machida has shown that he can be taken down, did Rashad even attempt to do that?
He can be taken down
by an unorthodox striker mixing punches and trips together. We haven’t seen how he fares against a freestyle wrestler like Rashad. Also, a lot of people are overlooking Thiago’s brutal top control game. Not sure if he can impose it on Rashaaaawwwwd, but it is a dangerous tool in his arsenal.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Last sentence of my previous post....
and I thought the gif was pretty clear of the result of Evans not even trying to take down Machida. I heard this Greg Jackson fellow is quite skilled, might have some input but I could be wrong.
Why would he take down a BJJ black belt?
Just because you can take someone down doesn’t mean that you should. Maybe he should have taken Machida down, but even if he should, that’s 1 fight where he should have used his wrestling and didn’t, let’s not act like the guy has given up on his wrestling because there is no evidence that he has.
Rashad talks about using his wrestling in the countdown show.
by snakecharmer1340 on Dec 29, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
I talked about fucking Christina Aguilera a few months back, still hasn’t happened.
by ufc4 on Dec 29, 2009 9:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There is so much wrong with this article it’s hard to know where to start really, this idea that the UFC is somehow trying to cheat people out of their money is laughable and wrong in everyway possible.
This card was decimated by injuries and yet Joe Silva and company came through putting together some damn good fights even after tons of fighters got hurt. This card will deliver and be action packed anyone missing out on it because they’ve been spoiled or are looking for big names only will be making a mistake.
Whatever the buyrate this card will also make money for the UFC and name the next contender in line for the LHW championship. I know it’s a reccession but honestly no one is forcing you to buy anything, the UFC doesn’t owe you a damn thing so this idea that people shouldn’t support this show to teach them a lesson is dumb.
Finally please stop the fantasy business booking, this idea that people who don’t run billion dollar business can tell people who do how to run things is insane. You can’t do a better job of scheduling and planning things than Dana and company no matter how smart you are. This card went to hell and will still make a profit ask the dead mma org owners how easy it is to do that then come back to me before even attempting to try and do what the UFC does.
by Raker on Dec 30, 2009 12:36 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Let me see what this card has going for it:
- Star power? Rashad Evans and some brazillian guy, so negative on that.
- A title on the line? Unfortunately injuries took that off the table awhile ago.
- A #1 contenders match? Maybe, I can’t really see them giving Lyoto Silva or Rashad so soon after embarrassing both of them. Plus, I think it is a given that Rashad gets Rampage next. So no on that one.
- How about a good grudge match? Well, Thiago and Rashad have had a few words but it is no Marcus Davis-Dan Hardy let alone Rashad-Rampage.
So UFC has none of the ingredients that most casual or semi-serious fans would find compelling, yet everyone is so quick to step over each other to label this a great card as if this proves how serious their mma-credentials are. Come on guys, lets be serious: to most fans this card stinks. Maybe not to us, god knows I want to see JDS -Yvel and Hazelett-Daley, but to most viewers this card has nothing to compel them to watch. We will, because we are the obsessive nuts that live for this and lets not forget it.
Voice of reason.
Thank you for being it.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
- Rashad not a headliner? Really?
1. Coach on the most watched TUF ever.
2. Former LHW champion.
3. 18-1-1 record.
4. TUF 2 winner.
- Title: Two title matches fell off this card. Shit happens. Deal with it.
- #1 contendor:
LHW: Rashad vs Silva will have consequences in the LHW division.
HW: JDS is moving up to a title shot. His fight will def. have consequences in the HW division.
- Grudge match: Evans vs. Silva/ JDS vs. Yvel are going to be really violent fights.
Fine you don’t like the card. You’ll for sure watch the free prelims and take the time to find it online. If you didn’t like the fights, you wouldn’t even take the time to find it online.
UFC 108 will still probably still do 300 – 350k PPV buys.
by snakecharmer1340 on Dec 30, 2009 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
First off, I didn’t mean to imply that Rashad was not a headliner, but rather he was the only star on the card.
And secondly, I don’t even know where to begin because I don’t think you even really read what I wrote.
by John Nash on Dec 30, 2009 3:43 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You know what… my bad dude. I read the first half of your post and sounded like a bash so I stopped reading. haha. my bad. I was at Sherdog before I came over here and those dudes are all hate. I might been a little to point some stuff out to people.
You’re right. MMA junkies like us will still watch this card.
by snakecharmer1340 on Dec 30, 2009 3:56 AM EST reply actions
No need to apologize
I knew instantly you had focused on my poorly worded comments about Rashad so I am partly to blame. Anyways, I am always happy to welcome another congenial former Sherdoger to BE.
by John Nash on Dec 30, 2009 4:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
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