Frank Mir Denies Steroids Played a Role in His Growth
by Kid Nate on Dec 28, 2009 7:59 PM EST
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Steve Cofield talks to Mir:
"I'm not gonna steer that route. The UFC drug tests the hell out of us. I get randomly drug tested all the time because I'm with the UFC. I'm sure there's a way around everything but that's a lot of stress."
Mir said it would be too much to deal with before a fight. He told Cagewriter that he was incredibly lean with low body fat at UFC 100. After the fight, he immediately ballooned up to 265 pounds. He worked with elite former Strongman contestant Mark Philippi to add the bulk and strength the right way. Mir is hoping to be walking around at 280 pounds by his next fight.
Full Mir interview is in the extended entry.
Brent Brookhouse had some commentary on the steroid issue at SBNation.com:
It would be pure ignorance to think that baseball players, football players, boxers, swimmers, bicyclists, soccer players...etc all use steroids while mixed martial artists are pure. There is, undoubtedly, a large group of fighters who are using and as was the case with MLB many of the names would probably shock the fanbase. However, we can not resort to pointing fingers at every fighter who achieves a high level of success or goes through physical changes as being "on something." That is not vigilance, it is irresponsible and won't do anything to help the sport.
We, as MMA fans, can make an effort to clean up our sport by contacting and pushing athletic commissions and individual promotions to make testing more stringent. This could be achieved by random testing of licensed fighters both in and out of competition, scheduled testing of fighters up to one month before a fight, and the holy grail...blood testing.
However, push for something as serious as blood testing would likely be met with a push by fighters to form a union which is something that a promotion like the UFC is already working behind the scenes to prevent from ever happening. Because of this want to avoid fighter unionization the UFC would likely never get on board with pushing for much more than some form of watered down random testing. And while it is up to state athletic commissions to make the rules as they control the licenses it is very clear that much of the time these AC's are making moves based on what promotions and promoters desire.
For now we'll have to settle for small moves like California using a form of random testing which was what led to Josh Barnett being popped for a positive. Barnett's positive test was the first domino to fall in the eventual collapse of Affliction MMA. It was a moment that was handled incorrectly by the MMA media as Josh being an isolated case rather than proving the impact that even small changes to testing procedures can have on a sport.
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I’m gonna be honest, when Brent writes stuff exclusively for SBN it kinda feels like he’s cheating on us.
by ufc4 on Dec 28, 2009 7:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Awww....
buck up little camper!
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2009 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
/bites Santa in the neck
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Dec 28, 2009 9:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Was that supposed to be a violent bite
or a sexy bite?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
pretty violent
On the Its Always Sunny christmas special Charlie bites out a chunk of Santa’s neck
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Dec 28, 2009 9:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dang.
I really need to start watching that show. I’m missing so much…
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
the almost sunny christmas special was amazing. that single scene is the reason it couldn’t be on tv.
by Austin Martin on Dec 28, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
it's hit or miss
the show has a few stinkers here or there but the great episodes (usually involving lots of drinking) are the funniest things on tv. try checking out my two favorite episodes, “Mack Bangs Dennis’s Mom” from season 1 and “The Gang Gives Frank an Intervention” from this season
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Dec 29, 2009 1:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
what about his physique makes it obvious.
by Austin Martin on Dec 28, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Might just be me but i didnt see that big a difference. He was bigger but not by much. He was in serious shape when he fought Brock at 100. He just added a little weight.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
Frank's always been a big guy...
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
give the guy a break he had hurt the fuck out of his knee. we’d all be thick if we got that hurt.
by Austin Martin on Dec 28, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah it’s obvious this is the post accident recovery era Mir. It’s easy to make fun of him then considering the direction he is going now.
Lost all respect for him when he started the "I want to end his career" nonsense.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Mir honestly looked like a guy who hit the weights and ate a sensible diet. It was not a dramatic change of his body. Imagine what Roy Nelson would look like with the proper diet and training.
Hmm. The UFC drug tests all the time, but they didn’t test Karo before 106, even though he had a history of past drug use.
Strange too, that the only fighters who seem to get nailed – Barnett, Diaz, Sherk, Antonio Silva – are all those that had fights coming up in California, the only state that seems to run any sort of true random testing.
Yeah, my statement was wrong. Although with Diaz it was the same as random: a previous understanding was changed. And, of course, Diaz didn’t test for anything.
But isn’t it strange that Nevada, the state with the most mma events, seems to catch fewer violators?
by John Nash on Dec 28, 2009 8:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nevada caught Barnett twice… so it’s doing something right. It also caught Diaz.
The reason you dont hear as much is because most of the events are UFC and Zuffa educates its fighters about not using steroids and checking their supplements so they are not tainted.
When did Nevada catch Barnett twice? You mean when he got popped after the fight w/Randy and prior to that when it wasn’t an official policy?
If so, then we are not really referencing the modern era. Nevada tests right before the fight and right after. The only way they are going to catch anyone is if the fighter really messes up his/her cycle.
California got Barnett on what was effectively a random drug test because it was weeks before the fight for a re-license. They would have got Diaz the same way but he knew he wouldn’t pass so he did not take the test.
I am not really sure what Mir is talking about, unless he has had a lot of fights in California that are slipping my mind.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Dec 28, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
Random Drug Testing was started in Nevada. Randy and Brock was randomly tested for their fight and it started even before then.
CSAC tested Josh when he got his license – that’s not random. They do that when you renew your license… now they might not do it with every applicant but thats WHEN they do it… so the timing is not random.
The NSAC started out of competition drug testing… That’s what Frank Mir is talking about.
The CSAC is nowhere even close in their testing procedures yet.
At the end this is all a useless exercise. Even if you add Random blood tests to the random urine tests you can now cycle out with less than 24 hour notice with some of the newer shit coming out. And some are as little as 3 hours.
At the end of the day pre-fight and post fight makes the biggest difference as you arent walking into the cage pumped up with pcp, pain killers, roid raging etc…
You can get past the tests and the net result is a more optimized training camp… it’s like using an oxygen tent. Its an edge but it’s a limited edge. come fight time all your factored levels need to be in the normal range.
At least we’re assured that a fighter cant punch through a car windshield without feeling it or be hit with baseball bats and keep going and that’s the biggest factor in drug testing… especially in a contact sport. This is the difference between a drug tested fight and a non drug tested fight.
Pre and post fight tests is the only thing that matters everything else is a useless and ultimately a pointless exercise.
A PED is taking an aspirin how the fuck are you going to monitor this in a training camp for each fighter? you cant. You monitor the fighter when he is fighting… the same way a fighter cant walk into the cage with brass knuckles a fighter should be penalized if he walked into the cage with higher than normal range levels… which is how things are now.
That’s it. Everything else is a fairy tail. The biggest factor in a fight is pre and post fight testing. The rest is mumbo jumbo.
The important thing is that there’s a limit and a ceiling for cheaters as they have to be very careful and they can do only so much….So there’s a risk to that limited advantage.
You seem to either be focusing only on certain types of drugs or don’t understand the reasons for using most steroids or other PEDs, since your comments mostly focus on painkillers.
By oxygen tent, I’m guessing you mean the use of hypobaric chambers by cyclists to increase their red blood cell count. This has the same general effect as banned substances (such as EPO), so I wouldn’t be so dismissive of the “limited edge” it provides.
Steroids aren’t an issue because of fighters “roid raging” in the cage, and the competitive advantage does not come from immediately taking them before stepping into a cage.
by mma_critic on Dec 29, 2009 3:28 AM EST up reply actions
No but cycling out limits the competitive advantage. That’s what Im saying.
The most impact any type of substance during a fight are drugs like pcp and pain killers. Some drugs are like bringing in brass nkuckles into the cage and others are training camp enhancers where you can train harder and recover faster.
Im using an oxygen tent as an example. Creatine is also a performance enhancer but its not banned.
The bottom line is I dont want a synthetically supped up nervous system in the cage and we don’t have that in the current system so im happy.
Assuming we are comparible skill level – Go take all the steroids you want for 3 months and lift and train all you want. I just need a bunch of pills before a fight and Ill bury you.
As far as ped’s to enhance a training camp (recovery, etc..) those who want to cheat will always cheat.
You can do random blood and random urine tests all you want… the chemists will always be ahead of the curve.
Right now Random (Kizer just ordered one for pacman and money may) is 48 hours. Chemists can get you through clean as a whistle in 24 hours and soon it will be 4 hours.
This is not something you can stop. All this random nonsense is doing is making the limited ceiling and the limited competitive edge only available to those that can afford it… creating an even less equal playing field.
Sticking with and improving the pre-fight and post fight test is all that matters.
Barnett’s test wasn’t random at all, all fighers have to test before they get a license in any state. Barnett getting caught was just pure stupidity, it would be like going to your drivers license test drunk. Who knows what Nick Diaz is thinking but his problem also wasn’t that it was a surprise test, he knew they would test him. Nick thought that his medical marijuana card would mean that they wouldn’t test for that during the license test but he found out differently so he skipped the test. That isn’t random that’s just how the system works (well anymore random than any of the other thoughts that float through Nick Diaz’s head). Neither of those incidents were random at all they were just guys who’s license came up for renewal and they weren’t clean at the time.
As I linked to below NSAC randomly test throught the year and has been doing so for the last two years. CSAC doesn’t do random test at all, they do test every fighter before every event (which most state athletic commissions can’t afford to do) but it is NSAC that is leading the way with random testing in the “off season” for fighters.
In the last two years how many violators has Nevada caught? How many has it caught with out of competition testing? Same with Zuffa? Besides Chris Leben in the UK and any of its oversees shows has it ever caught a user in a US event or with a random test? And does Strikeforce even have an inhouse testing policy?
Seriously, do you or anyone else have any answers to those questions, because I have not heard of anyone being tested in Nevada outside of immediately before or after an event, which would give a violator plenty of time to finish his cycle. And if I’m wrong I would like to be corrected of my erroneous information.
Strikeforce doesnt have an inhouse testing policy… Zuffa does.
I already told you the 3 guys you mentioned – 2 of them were caught in nevada first.
You sound upset that more guys arent juicing and being caught…
Believe me if more guys were juicing there wouldn’t be as many injuries and fighters wouldn’t be dropping out. It would be like K-1 where everyone is fighting every month…. multiple times a night.
At the end of the day you can cycle in and out of an aspirin in less than a day… that’s not gonna help you in a drug tested fight when you have to cycle out of it because your tested before and after the fight.
Same thing with other PED’s if you want to take the risk and make sure you only do enough where your tested levels remain in normal range during fight night then it all boils down to helping you train better but at a potential cost. It’s like an oxygen tent with risks of damaging your career.
What we dont want are guys walking in with proverbial brass knuckles (because they are roid raging or on speed) and guys taking more damage than normal because they are pumped up on pain killers. Everything else you are crying about is useless and pointless.
From Jan 2008:
NSAC Executive Director Keith Kizer Discusses Year-Round Drug Testing — An MMAjunkie.com Interview
http://mmajunkie.com/news/3640/nsac-executive-director-keith-kizer-discusses-year-round-drug-testing-an-mmajunkiecom-interview.mma
NEVADA UPS THE ANTE ON DRUG TESTING
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=5555&zoneid=13
Selection of licensees for testing will be made in one of three ways:So yes Nevada has been doing random drug testing throughout the year for the last two years now and several fighters have been tested at random in the “off season” since then.
1. Fighters may be randomly chosen for testing.
2. If there is some indication that a fighter is taking a non-approved substance, they may be tested.
3. If a fighter has previously tested positive for using a non-approved substance, they may be tested.
That’s the NSAC press release, but they have been asked several times what fighters on a card have been tested as part of the out of competition testing program and the answer always seems to be no one.
by John Nash on Dec 29, 2009 7:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
They don’t have to tell us who they test, heck CSAC used to not release pre and post card test results at all(even failures). Of course we do know major names that did the extra test, it was reported Tito Ortiz, B.J. Penn, and Sean Sherk have all gone through out of competition testing. Jackson and Griffin also tested out of competition before their fight as has Randy Couture, Brock Lesnar, Amir Sadollah, Nick Catone, Aaron Riley, and Jorge Gurgel. I guess I could easily google around and find other people who have taken it but then I’m not the one denying they do it. Yes they all could do a better job with this but then in this economy most states are about to go bankrupt and can’t afford to do a bunch of extra testing.
Here is what we have, one athletic commission that definatly does “out of competition” testing (just ask Manny Pacquiao) and one athletic commission that doesn’t, why are you so hell bent on being against the one that actually does? Look at it this way, Nick Diaz has never tested positive in CSAC even though he is very vocal about what he does, sure he has skipped a few test but then CSAC never even punishes him for blatantly lying to them and not showing up for test so why should he care? Of the other big names caught in California Sherk and Silva both fought the crap out of it and shortly after than CSAC admitted problems in their system and reworked the whole thing. Good grief CSAC has shown time and time again that they are a complete disaster, they have even had problems with simple paperwork.
I have no problem with either, or better yet, I have a problem with both. I am merely trying to point out to those that believe that just because fighters are drug tested doesn’t mean that those same fighters aren’t using.
As for out of competition testing: Ivan Trembow (yeah, I know, ivan Trembow) asks the NSAC after every UFC card which fighters on that card were tested using the out of competition program. The answer is almost universally none. The program is something of a paper tiger. In fact, when Sherk fought in May I don’t believe he was tested at all.
The only reason I keep going back to the CSAC is not because they are better – they are not- but that the fighters that are caught by them almost always seem to be done so because they are caught off guard by a change in policy. Proving my point, that more fighters are using – and getting away with it – more than most would care to admit.
They aren’t caught by a changing policy in CSAC they just get caught. The only person who has changing policy issues is Nick Diaz and you really have to wonder where he comes up with his stuff from (not to mention CSAC has never actually caught him doing anything even though he flaunts it all the time).
As far as guys getting away with it, well sure there are guys that do, they stars have more money than the athletic commissions and can afford to get the people and substances that keep them from getting caught, of course that always be the case in sports. The one big thing you just can’t get around is that state athletic commissions are state funded agencies and the vast majority of the state governments in the US are in very bad shape (I work in state government currently, it’s very very bad). It wouldn’t surprise me if CSAC ended up moving away from testing everyone on a card to just doing a random sampling as other athletic commissions do just based on the cost associated with it, we damn sure aren’t going to see any blood test anytime soon. I think the fact that in 2008 NSAC was testing all sorts of guys out of competition and in 2009 they are just getting bugged by Trembow may also have to do with the budget too, I’m sure it cost to have someone fly out to where a guy trains just to watch them piss in a cup and fly back with it.
I thought Sherk was up for a re-license in Cali but he got injured and so he never re-applied i.e. had to be tested. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Dec 28, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know if Sherk ever re-applied but I do believe that something like that happened at one time. To get a fighers license in a state you are going to have to be tested and get medical work done. That isn’t random that is part of the licensing proceedure by state athletic commissions.
CSAC doesn’t do random drug testing they just do standard licensing testing and standard pre-post fight testing, the only difference in California is that they test every fighter at an event, most other states only test for title bouts and a random sample from the event because most athletic commissions don’t have the money available that CSAC does. Currently the only state with random testing that I know of is Nevada and they have been doing that for years now.
It should also be noted that as far as Athletic Commissions go CSAC is pretty piss poor. They have had to revamp their commission and testing methods a couple of times in the last couple of years now, they were a real mess. It’s probably for that reason that some fighters have decided to just stay away from fighting in California.
I don’t think Mir was on the roids for this upcoming fight.
He’s a naturally big guy, and while he talked a big game going into the Kongo fight to sell it, but he was a lot better than him with regards to mma skills, so he could have spent a lot of time since his last fight just doing weight training without worrying about this fight.
I think its kind of funny he acknowledges that there is a way for him to circumvent the rules but he views it as too stressful and a nuisance. He says it like he’s not offended by the accusations at all. "What’s that steroids? Yeah, I thought about it but in the end it would have just been too much of a pain in the ass.
by Neil Manich on Dec 28, 2009 9:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
And I think he makes a good point.
It’s like when you realized that you forgot to renew your tags and you’re driving around looking in your rear view mirror all the time. Or when you’re showing up to work drunk and worried that your boss will catch you pouring Jameson’s in your coffee. Or when you’ve told Kid Nate that you’ll be his man forever but you can’t stop seeing Luke on the side.
And that’s no way to go into a fight.
Oh crap. I’ve said too much.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
You’ll never stop PED use. Call me crazy but I generally think athletes should be able to do what they want and if that includes steroids then so be it. It’s their body after all.
Or Japanese?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
aw cmon, think of all the exciting matchups that would be possible in a specially 'juiced' division!
Jose Aldo on angel dust vs. Brockle Snar on horse tranqs…
no way that would be bad for the sport!
by some schmuck in texas on Dec 28, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with you...
Seriously. Juice all these fuckers and let’s see some cool shit. If a real doctor regulates it, it isn’t that scary. It gets shady when people buy illegal steroids from Mexico and dose themselves.
Let’s legalize so it’s a level playing field, and watch 300 pounders who run a 4.2 get crazy.
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Dec 28, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The whole purpose of taking juice is to gain advantage. If everybody would be taking PED’s how would you gain advantage? Taking more juice? Taking better juice? Spitting in other fighter’s juice? What about addictions? If you would lose a fight, would you blame it on cheap juice (Samedov vs. GG)?
by dancingChicken on Dec 29, 2009 5:29 AM EST up reply actions
Some day fans will know that to be a top athlete you need some juice, hard work will always play a role, but you got to understand the times we live in, get with the time people.
There’s always cheating when there’s competition…
Every month at least one bug or black hat device is found at apple.
Is the miscreant elimenated with extreme prejudice?
Keep firing Assholes!
Editor of www.downsyndromematuremidgetsheltlandponyporn.com/
Extreme. Prejudice.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Dec 29, 2009 1:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Frank said that he never used to do much weight training, so for him to put on muscle and weight rapidly when he first takes it seriously is not surprising. He is also working with proven professionals at this. I’m not always Franks biggest fan, but he isn’t a stupid guy. I’m sure he is taking supplements that go right to the limit of what is legal, but I doubt he is doing anything illegal at this point. Unless he pisses hot for something illegal, he is clean in my book. I’m just not sure how it will affect his cardio.
I agree, I believe him when he says he is clean, what I question is if all the weight he has put on is actually gonna give him the advantage that he thinks it’s going to. A guy who relies on subs as much as he does usually want to be quicker and more agile than their opponents, putting on 40 pounds isn’t going to help that.
So you'd call his submission game against Kongo slow?
Ponderous? Lackadaisical? :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
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