The Real Fight of the Decade: Forrest Griffin vs Stephan Bonnar Fight That Saved the UFC
by Kid Nate on Dec 22, 2009 6:50 PM EST
in MMA News
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There was a good bit of controversy in the comments of Leland's post earlier today about the fighters of the decade because neither of the two sources he cited -- Jonathan Snowden nor Zach Arnold -- listed Forrest Griffin on their list. Well Ray Hui of Fanhouse addresses that oversight and names Griffin vs Bonnar the Fight of the Decade:
The light heavyweight fight between Forrest Griffin and Stephan Bonnar during The Ultimate Fighter Finale televised live on Spike TV on April 9, 2005 displayed the grit and the mental toughness universally necessary in all sports to become a champion.
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Besides entertainment factor, the fight will always be remembered for a reason of greater importance; the 15 minutes of action essentially saved MMA.
"It's the most significant fight in UFC history," UFC president Dana White would repeatedly call the match.
Stephan Bonnar, Forrest GriffinEntering the night's event, the UFC did not have a deal with Spike TV to return for a second season. The show was essentially an experiment and the finale itself was the first-ever live MMA card on television. But immediately following the conclusion of the fight, Spike TV and the UFC quickly renewed for at least two additional seasons.
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"You want to talk Royce Gracie and Ken Shamrock, at this point, [Bonnar and Griffin] definitely need to be up there in that Hall of Fame, " Ben Saunders said.
I actually agree with both Snowden and Hui. I probably wouldn't include either Griffin nor Bonnar on the top 10 fighters of the decade list, but I would say this was the fight of the decade.
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I understand that it's been recognized
as one of the most important events in the UFC and perhaps MMA history, but sometimes it’s tough to wrap my mind around that. I never really paid attention to tv ratings and I was already watching MMA before that night, so to me it was just another fight. At the time I looked at it purely as deciding the winner of a tv show competition, so I really didn’t put any importance into it as affecting the title picture or the division pecking order either. When Sergio won The Contender (yes, I watched that too) I didn’t think “Man, this is gonna launch boxing back into the mainstream again!” I guess what I’m trying to say is from the perspective of someone who was already an MMA fan, the day after TUF Season 1 finale was the same as the day before it.
really now?
You didn’t notice how much more popular the sport became after that fight set a precedent for the Ultimate Fighter to be a viable means of programing as well as a way of breaking new talent?
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
It might make me sound dumb
but really, no I didn’t notice the impact immediately after that fight. I didn’t know if or when they would do another season. I didn’t look at the competitors as championship caliber talent. Maybe I should get out of my shack more often :) I know I’m in the wrong now, but I didn’t perceive that fight as a game changer until long after it happened. As a sideways comparison, I’m sure the people that saw the Oakland/Jets Heidi Bowl football game (or at least what was aired of it) had no idea how important that game would be on how American broadcasters would handle sporting events from then on.
i don't think its just the immediate impact tho...
a lot of why the fight is important is hind sight. Btw, just so we’re clear I wasn’t trying to be an ass… and I appreciate the response.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
"I was already watching MMA before that night"
Yeah, and I’ve been watching since Inoki-Ali.
by N. Rodriguez on Dec 22, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve watched MMA since I first came across UFC3 and have been hooked ever since. But it wasn’t hard to recognize the signifigance of that fight. I had a core group of people that I would talk mma with through the years; but I noticed a great deal of people that don’t normally talk mma talking about that fight.
I do see your point, in that to me, it was just a good mma brawl… But, like dana had said about it before, I was getting phone calls asking me if I was watching this fight and the next day plenty of people had taken note of mma. People that, although aren’t hardcore into it, still watch the spike shows, sometimes catch a PPV now, etc.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
I wouldn’t put Griffin or Bonnar on my top ten, but as the fight together… it’s a fight of the decade for sure.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 22, 2009 4:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
the 15 minutes of action essentially saved MMA.
In North America perhaps.
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni
Well to be fair the sport is very close to being on life support in Japan right now and Norht America is by far the most lucrative market the sport has ever seen (yes Pride had huge ratings in Japan but they never were able to tap the PPV market which is where all the money in the sport comes from).
Best vs. most important
the fight is a sloppy mess that has become overrated over time so its far from the best over the last ten years
but
the fight was huge shot in the arm for the UFC and the sport of MMA in that accelerated the momentum Zuffa had already been building.
So, it is the most important because it kept the UFC on T.V where Zuffa was able to brand MMA as a legitimate sport in the eyes of general public. .
UFC probably did save the Spike network. I think thats more accurate than saying it saved MMA
15 minutes can’t kill or save a entire sport.
Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ultmma
http://www.ultmma.com
You mean Spike saved the UFC, Spike wasn’t going anywhere (heck at the time they had WWE programming) but Zuffa definately was and where would MMA in North America be without the UFC exploding in popularity like it did after that fight?
You mean Spike saved the UFC
They saved each other. Spike was floundering after their format change and the UFC was on the verge of death. The UFC and Spike are like a shark and a remora, living in perfect symbiosis.
by Steve4192 on Dec 22, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In North America perhaps.
The only MMA company that was making any money in Japan prior to TUF was DSE, and they lost their TV deal just a year later and began their slow death march which culminated in 2007. Meanwhile FEG’s first Hero’s show didn’t happen until the spring of 2005 and they were on the cusp of giving up on MMA before deciding to give it one last shot by scavenging the carcass of Pride.
WIthout the UFC proving that there was money to be made in the global MMA market, Don Quijote (Sengoku) and FEG might not have been there to pick up the pieces when Pride went under. The success of the UFC most certainly played a part in their decision to try and resurrect MMA in Japan.
Perhaps the most important fight, but I wouldn’t say the best. It was largely sloppy kickboxing, arguably setting the precedent for fighters trying to get the FOTN bonus – avoid the ground, wing your punches, and bleed a lot.
I’d give best fight to either Fedor/CC or Big Nog/Barnett I, with the most entertaining fight being Guida/Huerta.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 22, 2009 4:47 PM EST reply actions
My fight of the decade
is Hughes vs Trigg. Comeback after the nutshot was incredible.
I think I might rephrase it a bit. I’d call it the fight that brought MMA/UFC into the mainstream spotlight. Which in it self is great because it means more dollars being pumped into the industry but at the same time it was basically a kickboxing match from what I remember. There wasn’t a whole lot of ground game displayed was there? Did this fight help to further the “boo-birds” when the ground becomes a more advanced jiu-jitsu match?
That was the first "WAR" i witnessed...
I had seen some good KO’s and highlights but had never really known about MMA as a sport… that finale was intense for me, cuz I was completely oblivious… Its one of those moments that translates to more than an MMA fan… you could visibly see that they were both spent physically, but it meant a lot for their livelihood to win and gain the contract… The crowd was goin nuts, and then they both got contracts so it ended with an extreme high for the casual viewer.
It was pretty awesome at the time.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Shame Bonnar actually won the fight.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
I had always thought the same thing, never saw anyone actually say that though. Bonnar really flopped though, good thing he’s a good speaker, he’ll always have a gig with the UFC.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Dec 22, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not fight of the decade but definitely in the top 10. I know it’s criticized quite a bit for being sloppy but knowing how much each guy was spent from taking a beating that really doesn’t bother me that much.
They were both laying everything on the line because at the time people really only thought the winner of the season was going to be in the UFC and now it’s rare that more than a guy or two from the show doesn’t get at least 1 fight in the UFC.
totally off subject..
But ive been looking for a sweater, shirt, shorts, anything that has “team black house” written on it. Im trying to find it for a Xmas present for someone close to me. Do they exist and do they sell them? If anybody knows of where i could buy a shirt or something that would be amazing. Also, anyone who knows about brazil, im also looking for “Team Brasa” or “Brazil Dojo” gear. Thanks guys
You’d probably be better off putting this into a fanpost.
by ufc4 on Dec 22, 2009 5:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think that Anderson Silva has some cool shirts floating around, black and yellow.
That’s the closest you’ll come to finding a “Team Black House” shirt.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
My favorite shirt. I flew out to Columbus from LA for the fight:
http://secure.sherdog.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=516
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
Thanks guys
And Day Man i think that will work. But he was wanting some “official” (meaning from Brazil) brazilian BJJ stuff. These guys managers suck at clothing marketing. Think about how big Jacare and Silva are in Brazil. Everybody would wear Team Brasa or Team BlackHouse shirts like soccer jerseys. Tons of money to be made.
Im really not sure this fight was as good as the legend surrounding it thinks it is. Heres my personal story with it:
The first time i watched MMA was through the first ultimate fighter. I watched the show occassionally but never with any particular interest. The day of the finale, i was bored and watched the entire series in marathon form. I watched the finale, saw this fight, and was entertained. Thats it.
After that day i went on leving a relatively MMA free existence for years until i started watching some free ultimate fight night when i was bored and i got hooked. I honestly dont even remember what card it was. Maybe im unusual but i really dont believe that this fight alone brought in that many more fans than the season as a whole did.
Greatest fight in history in any fight sport
There are few fights where afterward you have the overwhelming sense that everyone had a huge win. Not just the fighters in the fight, but all fighters, the fans, the promoters, the broadcaster, and the sport. For 15 minutes Griffin and Bonnar were not limited to being men, but instead were gods going at it like only immortals can
No, they were involved in a sloppy brawl which, to this day, is what most casual fans want to see. Yes, it saved MMA here in the U.S. but it also likely perpetuated the kind of “stand and bang” mentality that Dana White actively promotes everytime he says, “this one definitely isn’t going to a decision” or “no one is going for a takedown/submission in this fight”. Ironically, Bonnar/Griffin went to a decision.
I would say it is better that we stop romanticizing this fight in such a way and find more technically sound fights to place upon a pedestal.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Dec 22, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
It wasn’t a technical showpiece, but it was a war. It might not have helped to educate anyone to the intricacies of ground game, but it got people interested – and if they kept coming back for more, there were always more and more opportunities to educate them.
A wonderful chess match on the ground will look only so exciting to an untrained eye – and it stands a lot smaller chance to get the owner of that eye to come back than an action-packed pier six brawl.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Dec 22, 2009 5:49 PM EST reply actions
I feel as if you’d have to have been an MMA fan before and after this fight to understand the significance of it.
Personally I became a fan only about a year and a half ago. I had heard all the legend surrounding the Griffin/Bonnar tilt so I watched it and found myself pretty unimpressed by the whole thing.
Totally agreed, Nate. Griffin should be on any list of the most important figures of the past decade.
Heavy.com -- Lead Staff Writer
Meant to say that I agree about Griffin/Bonnar being on top ten fights lists, but I do believe that Griffin should be on any top ten list of the most important fighters in the sport for the decade.
Heavy.com -- Lead Staff Writer
Houston Chronicle's Brawl Sports
how about Bonnar though? Individually, i dont see their importance to the sport.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Griffin, much more so than Bonnar, has been a figure that draws people to the sport. It started with the Ultimate Fighter, but Griffin’s popularity has never waned. He’s one of those fighters with a connection to the mainstream.
Heavy.com -- Lead Staff Writer
Houston Chronicle's Brawl Sports
Absolutely. It wasn’t the best fight, it wasn’t even the most epic, and it wasn’t the most technical, but it was so pivotal as an event, was so entertaining at that pivotal time, and it put the juggernaut and MMA’s alter-ego namesake, the UFC, on the map.
If you were going to talk about just all around epic great matches though, I’d have to say Joyce vs Sakuraba.
Agreed
Although, it’s kind of hard to realize the impact it had overall, but the sport really did blow up after that, in North America at least. It killed me that it was number 1 on UFC’s top 100 fights, but if you want to talk about significance for the sport, it’s huge, and very deserving of fight of the decade.
Now, the debate is on for which fight really gets “Fight of the Decade” awards for simply being a great fight, because Griffin/Bonnar was a technical hurricane of disaster. It’s REALLY hard to get a general concensus on the situation, because in MMA, people’s memory is increasingly short term…I’d LOVE to see a huge post with gifs/videos of some of the best fights over the past 10 years.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
If this is the "Fight of the Decade"
then can we, as a collective MMA fandom, at least make another category for the best fight of the decade based actually on the technical merits of the fight itself?
Or maybe call this sort of thing “Most influential fight of the decade” and leave the qualification of “best” for the one that people actually agree is the, you know, best?
i dont feel the need to make another category. The contribution of this fight to the sport outweights any awesome technicalities other fights have. This is the Fight of the Decade.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Nonsense
Influence is not automatic greatness or merit. For example, Jones/Hamill was not a great fight, but it will be influential for being the first time instant replay was used in pro MMA. That alone, however, does not make it a great fight, nor will most people consider a lopsided beatdown a great fight. My criterion is “What fight is the best representative of MMA?” Bonnar/Griffin isn’t.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 22, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
Influence is not automatic greatness or merit.
But this time it is. In addition, the fight itself was great.
The Jones/Hamill fight is a big stretch in proving your point. The fight wont influence anything rather than simply being the first to use the instant replay.
"What fight is the best representative of MMA?"
If you are talking about technicalities, it definitely wasnt. But that was an epic back and forth fight which just so happened under MMA rules. It was the fight of the decade because it was gigantic in entertainment and its contribution to the sport is unparalleled.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
It wasn't the best fight of the decade in my opinion
because there were other fights that were better. They might not have been more influential, or more important, or make a bigger contribution to the sport—but there were better fights, and if we aren’t picking the best fight due to the actual events contained within the fight itself, then why bother calling it “Fight of the Decade?”
You might as well call the legal process to get MMA certified in Nevada the “Fight of the Decade” due to it’s unparalleled import with regards to the future of the sport (A Sherdog writer listed that process as the “Story” of the decade, for what that’s worth).
Let me just add that I don’t think it was all that bad of a fight, nor do I argue with its impact.
I object for similar reasons as when a headline fighter wins a KO/submission bonus despite the presence of better candidates from the night’s results.
I understand your position
Im just a strong advocate of the Law of Identity.
It is the Fight of the Decade for these reasons:
1. UFC might have already ceased operations w/o that fight. In the process it also saved MMA promotions in entirety. It did prove that MMA is a business that can be profitable. W/o that fight, the MMA scene would probably be a bunch on local promotions and Vale Tudo event-likes in Brazil.
2. It was an awesome fight. This is the first reason anyways why people loved that fight. It was a war, it was unpretty in technical sense but then again fighting was never meant to be beautiful anyways. It was a MMA fight, it was held under MMA regulations and rules. Bonnar and Griffin just opted to focus on kicking the shit out of each other w/c is part of MMA.
3. Cause Dana and the majority of the mma community (hardcore and casual) recognizes it as such.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
“Qualification” 1 has superfluous bearing on the question of what makes a great fight—not to mention that it is a entirely arguable contention.
As to the second, I agree that it was a good fight, but not even the biggest supporters of it as a great fight would claim that haven’t been many fights over the last 10 years that were better in many ways.
And #3 is rather self-defeating and speaks only indirectly to the actual merits of the fight.
Honestly though, all that said, if people really want this to be “Fight of the Decade,” then so be it.
Which only brings me back to my original contention that, if this is the conclusion to be reached, can we at least have a second round of contemplation over what was the “Most excellent example of the finer qualities of the sport generally referred to as Mixed Martial Arts to have occurred during the last 10 years.”
I guess it’s become cool to scoff at Griffin/Bonnar and write it off as sloppy kickboxing.
Before that fight, I was watching UFC/Pride PPVs alone at home and god forbid I try to find a bar showing it.
After that fight, I ALWAYS watch the PPVs with a handful of people, every other bar is showing the fights, Liddell has been on the cover of ESPN Magazine, Fedor has fought live on fuckin’ CBS, etc.
To downplay the significance of this fight is to truly not understand where the sport has been, where the sport was at that point, and where the sport can go as a result.
by Applejack McNeil on Dec 22, 2009 6:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
"Most Influential" does not mean "Best Overall"
I completely understand the impact it had on MMA. It brought it to a much larger audience than ever, and it only continues to grow. However, a “fight of the decade” should be much, much more – if you had to show someone only one fight to represent MMA,would it be Griffin/Bonnar? Would you even say it’s the best UFC fight? There is no denying the impact, but that doesn’t mean greatness.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 22, 2009 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
No, it doesn’t, you’re right.
It is the most IMPORTANT fight in the past 10 years and to me, that makes it the fight of the decade.
My overall favorite fight is actually Saku/Royce I just because of the memories and emotions attached to it.
by Applejack McNeil on Dec 22, 2009 10:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
By the standard of importance, I totally agree. The UFC went from anemic to full-blooded overnight with that.
I forgot about Royce/Saku – it even qualifies for the “Fight of the Decade”. Definitely should be top-ten.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 22, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
just my opinion if you dont like o well
I dont know but I started watching mma shortly after this fight and this fight had nothing to do with it as a latino I was brought up watching boxing then one day I was watching boxing one day and thought wow theres something missing,channel surfing I caught the ufc and said here it is this is what Im missing been hooked ever since heard about this fight watched and thought are you serious this is the fight that everyones talking about alot of people say it saved mma maybe it did but in my opinion this has got to not da best fight ever but the most overrated fight ever sorry but its just my opinion dont kill me for it and to see as the #fight ever in the ufc dats a joke sorry
This may sound dumb/may have been repeated plenty earlier...
But this fight meant a lot to me, mostly because it was the first fight that got me really into MMA. Yeah there was hardly any ground game or any real defense for that matter, but it kept my ADHD attention span to stay and it made me an instant fan after the final horn sounded. I may be a TUF noob, but I’m just glad that I found the sport that I love that night
"The greatest enemy will hide in the last place you would ever look." - Revolver
by flyingkneetoface on Dec 23, 2009 2:14 AM EST reply actions
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