Relevance Is Relative: The Pointless Strikeforce vs. WEC Debate
by Michael Rome on Dec 21, 2009 4:00 PM EST
in News
199 comments
After putting on a home run show, a lot of the debate over Strikeforce has centered on the promotion's relevance. Sure, Melendez and Thomson had an exciting scrap, but was it a relevant fight? The answer is obviously yes. Here you have two of the top 20 fighters in the world at a given weight class going to war for 25 minutes and sending thousands of people into a frenzy. The winner will probably find himself back in the top 10. Would Gilbert Melendez beat B.J. Penn? Definitely not. Would he beat Diego Sanchez? I'd probably pick Diego, but it would be close. Either way, it doesn't matter.
I was thinking about this relevance argument as I watched the Pittsburgh Steelers earn a dramatic victory over the Green Bay Packers Sunday afternoon. It was one of the most exciting games I've seen recently, and it frankly didn't matter that neither one of them has much of a chance to win the superbowl. A great game is a great game. A great fight is a great fight. If you can only enjoy a lightweight fight when BJ Penn is involved, you're really missing out on a lot and should probably re-evaluate what it is you like so much about MMA, because most fights do not have the best fighters in the world involved.
Strikeforce is a growing promotion with limited (but growing) financial backing. It's frankly a miracle that they have the best heavyweight of all time, two top-ten light heavyweights, all of the top female fighters, and a number of good middleweights given the behemoth they have to compete with. The UFC has a lock on the elite talent; the best fighters are locked into championship clauses, and probably will be in the UFC for life. Is Strikeforce simply irrelevant because they can't get these fighters? Is the UFC heavyweight division irrelevant because they don't have Fedor? The obvious answer to both of these questions is "no."
In Spring, Strikeforce will be back on CBS with Fedor on top, Dan Henderson against Jake Shields, and perhaps Gilbert Melendez defending his title against Shinya Aoki. Around the same time, Brian Bowles will put his title on the line against Dominick Cruz. Is one more "relevant" than the other? The two aren't really comparable in any meaningful way, but one will be seen by millions while the other will get a couple hundred thousand viewers on a station nobody watches. At that point, does it really matter that Brian Bowles has a higher ranking in his division than Gilbert Melendez has in his? Of course not.
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This is precisely what I was trying to point out to mmalogic when he went on his tirade against Nate a couple of days ago. Thank you for posting about this.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
by Beer Monster on Dec 21, 2009 4:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i remember logic saying that ufc prelims are more important that any sf fight. good stuff.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Dec 21, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He is always good for a laugh.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
*unaired prelims* are more important
than any SF fight. get it straight. lol
by bobthewriter on Dec 21, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff, Rome.
The more quality MMA there is consume, the happier I am. Don’t care where it comes from, I just want to watch it.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Dec 21, 2009 4:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, Michael Rome!!!
Reading and responding to these posters that use the “relevancy” card was infuriating. I see it like this, Jon Fitch (who I am a fan of) is a top three Welterweight. However, that doesn’t mean that his fights will be more exciting, and quite frankly, more relevant win or lose (where did a win over Mike Pierce really get Fitch?). I don’t understand the logic that a fight will not be entertaining or will be meaningless because it doesn’t have top ten fighters fighting each other.
by chrisbboy82 on Dec 21, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor / Werdum , Shields / Henderson , Melendez / Aoki
now that is a an irrevelant card. Why the hell are they showing this on CBS?
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Dec 21, 2009 4:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
They paid tons of money for Fedor, who doesn’t draw on PPV. Instead, hype him and let the ads come rolling in.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Dec 21, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All the fights you just listed would be able to headline a UFC ppv...
especially with the shit they are trying to come out with these last few ppv’s. You think Ortiz/Griffin is better than any of the ones you just listed?
by HappyLittleTreez on Dec 21, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hilarious
The exact point Rome is trying to make is being completely dissolved by a bunch of constituents. War Scott Coker!
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am thinking everyone is missing the sarcasm.
by nottheface on Dec 21, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i thought my picture was enough.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Dec 21, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was gonna nerdrage until I saw your AV.
by CSKit on Dec 21, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is..
people are stupid enough to say and believe something like that.
by HappyLittleTreez on Dec 21, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only Picard can remedy this...
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 21, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I was with you
right up until what I perceived as a dig at the very end.
one will be seen by millions while the other will get a couple hundred thousand viewers on a station nobody watches.
Ouch. I guess Brittany Spears sold millions while the Pixies waited almost two decades to go gold, so maybe your point is still valid. I’ll go with it, and maybe someday more people will tune in to that station nobody watches.
by rzor on Dec 21, 2009 4:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It was a flip of the usual script...
it was Rome using the same thing that the usual UFC over Strikeforce argument is based around. I don’t think it was legitimately a dig so much as a “look…certain things don’t matter in the context of quality of fights”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 21, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed
tune in to that station nobody with Direct TV watches.
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni
by midwestbred on Dec 21, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that itself shows the problem with mma
I dont have a problem with Fedor or Hendo and if they get better ratings good he is the #1 hw in the world but to me it shows a sad state of affairs when people would rather watch Kimbo fight Thompson or Butterbean vs. Tank Abbott than watch Brown/Aldo or Bowles/Cruz.
The fact that more people are interested in those fights than watching the #1 fighter in the weight class fight shows people are more interested in “fun fights” than relevant one’s.
by bigdmmafan on Dec 21, 2009 4:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
thats true with most things in life… look at transformers 2
by pandaboy99 on Dec 21, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair
holy shit dude, they were gonna have Tank fight Butterbean! HOW EFFING AWESOME IS THAT?!
It’s like peanut butter and chocolate. I love watching WEC more than any other promotion (although they mishandle some talent pretty bad) but I also love the show Destroyed in Seconds on Discovery. If you can take my MMA and give it a crunchy spectacle center, you better believe I’ll watch it.
Related: Come on Dana, you promised us Penn vs. Kimbo! Make it happen!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Dec 21, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So in other words, saying something like “SF is clearly in another league than the WEC” is pointless, right?
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
^ Exactly
This entire shitstorm was touched off by Kid Nate’s need to get a dig in on Zuffa. Without that snarky little comment, that thread would have never derailed like it did.
Perhaps Nate should listen to Rome’s sage advice.
by Steve4192 on Dec 21, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps
or perhaps Kid Nate should ban you for getting on his nerves.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Dec 22, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
I can’t believe you are resorting to making threats over something so trivial.
If you want to be that petty, go right ahead. I’ll miss Bloody Elbow, but I can live without it. I’d rather not have to worry about walking on egg shells any time I disagree with you.
by Steve4192 on Dec 22, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the best fighters are locked into championship clauses,
When I read this a strange thought popped into my head; since Strikeforce has a championship clause couldn’t they orchestrate a dispute with one of their champions to get it knocked down it court, setting the precident, and paving the way for UFC champs to jump ship. It could end up being a double-edged sword, especially if its Strikeforce champs that jump, but I would love to see it.
by nottheface on Dec 21, 2009 4:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That would be a dumb move.
Guillotine.
by iiowyn on Dec 21, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, Strikeforce, who is having trouble getting it’s heavyweight champion to actually fight and defend his belt, should go and make it so that promotions have even less leverage to try and get the fighters they promote and build up to actually fight for them. What a wonderful idea.
They would be shooting themselves in the foot, especially when the UFC has a massive capital advantage over them.
Guillotine.
by iiowyn on Dec 21, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who exactly do you think wants to jump ship from UFC?
Maybe Silva? But Lesnar, GSP, Penn, Machida are all getting takin care of nicely.
Machida and GSP are already fighting the best in their weight class.
Lesnar is making to much too want to jump. Penn maybe if he really wanted Aoki but all this talk about how he doesnt want Maynard he wants a superfight. Does anyone really think a Penn/Aoki draws a lot better than Penn/Maynard.
by bigdmmafan on Dec 21, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone really think a Penn/Aoki draws a lot better than Penn/Maynard.
i do. IMO, Aoki presents a more intriguing match up than Maynard even though they’ll both more likely loss to Penn. Aoki is ranked #2 LW as well..
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Dec 21, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s all true but does nothing to support your argument. Nobody outside of the most hardcore MMA fans know who Aoki is, at least some of the casual fans know Maynard.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Penn vs Aoki will be bigger than Penn vs Maynard if done in the UFC.
Penn vs Aoki in CBS i think will still be bigger than Penn vs Maynard in the UFC.
1. Penn will be a draw both in UFC and SF. Can you imagine the headlines if Penn moves to SF.
2. Im assuming its going to be in CBS, though they arent your paying MMA fans but still CBS means more viewers.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Dec 21, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who is Aoki??? (CBS crowd)
The problem is, they don’t showcase any of these fighters at all, so nobody knows who they are.
by MMAWrestling on Dec 21, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Penn vs Aoki in CBS i think will still be bigger than Penn vs Maynard in the UFC.
Your definition of bigger is misguided— Penn/Aoki on PPV would make far more money than any broadcast on CBS.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Penn/Aoki on PPV would make far more money than any broadcast on CBS.
I agree with that.I have one question though, would everything always be bigger on PPV? What if Aoki vs Penn under the UFC brand happened on ABC, would PPV still be a better option?
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Dec 21, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Their success on PPV is the cornerstone of their success. They make a shit-ton of money on PPV sales and SF would love to take a piece of that pie. Could they make money on network in addition to PPV? Absolutely, that’s a no-brainer. Will there be more eyes on an NBC broadcast of a UFC event than on a PPV? Certainly— it’s free to watch. But the UFC is able to make upwards of 500k households pay 45 dollars to watch a fight monthly and sometimes as much as a million. That’s a lot of green, and ultimately, what matters most to a business.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Copy. Much appreciated.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Dec 21, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
520,000 ppv buys (what the UFC has averaged the last year) would generate around $13 million for the UFC (at 50% of ppv, although I suspect they are closer to 60%). Even if the UFC drew 10-15 million in it’s core demographics, a 30 sec spot would be lucky to sell for $140,000. That means they would make $8-10 mil in ad revenue over a 2 hour block. Which means the network would be willing to give them $5 mil or so or the event. If they drew 15-20 million in the core 18-34 demo, they might get $8 from a network. Still doesn’t compare.
by nottheface on Dec 21, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
$8? No wonder they haven’t signed that deal.
by ufc4 on Dec 22, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The argument I saw, in Nate’s post where he said SF was on a different level, wasn’t weather or not Melendez/Thompson was relevant, it was which card had fights that were MOST relevant, which would have been the WEC (fight on the card between two top TEN BW’s) while SF"s most relevant fight on the card was the #13 LW v. the #24 LW (obviously 24 due to injury) so really two top TWENTY LW’s. Relevance in the world of mma, WEC gets the nod on those cards (which are the two we were all discussing)…
you should have used Browns-Lions game from a few weeks ago or Browns-Chiefs from yesterday to prove your point about great games are great games, because Packers will be in the playoffs, 1 in 12 chance of winning it all, I don’t think they will even win on wildcard weekend but the Steelers won the SB from the #6 seed so no one really knows. Also the Steelers are defending champs, and even though on life support, still have a chance at the playoffs as well, so bad comparison imo.
plus what starts debates (against me) is when I say I don’t care about promotions, I look at mma from an overall landscape, and I want to see the fights that matter most (to compare to NFL, Saints-Cowboys as opposed to Browns-Chiefs, no matter which ends more exciting as one matters more than the other). So I say that, and say I would rather see two top ten BW’s fight than two top 20 LW’s and I get back “you hate SF, you love zuffa”…
no, in a perfect world mma cards would get put together, as just mma cards, and there would be our 8 (or 9 if you count 115 and/or SHW) weight classes with ONE (and only one) champion per weight class and it would be the MMA World Title. That’s what I want, won’t happen and if it did it would be bad anyways because it would become like boxing which no one wants. But if it were like I just said I wanted, which of the cards on Saturday night would have held the most relevance in mma (to rankings, towards getting a legit MMA World Title shot or getting closer to one), well WEC would have had the most important card.
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 4:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That last bit is what us “Zuffa lovers” want, the best talent all fighting each other. The only realistic way of that happening is to have them fighting under one umbrella.
Guillotine.
by iiowyn on Dec 21, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m aware, which is back when I wanted UFC and PRIDE to have unification bouts, then when PRIDE was bought I wanted all the top talent in the UFC (and mostly still do) but if you say that’s how you want it then you are a “UFC shill” or “Zuffa lover”, etc…It could be called Strikeforce, DREAM, UFC whatever for all i care (though for historical purposes UFC bet fits) but I want all the top guys under one umbrella or for it to just be mma worldwide with one champ, etc…which the UFC mostly gives us (and WEC if you count BW and FW), except of course for HW…
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that people do, but its just not very realistic. Co-promotion between super fights is much more realistic (unless you are talking about the UFC).
Think of it this way, MMA is a global sport (not based in the USA). There will always be great fighters outside of an elite promotion, and there will always be too many good fighters for all of them to fight under one umbrella.
I know people like to talk about NFL, NBA, and MLB, but those sports were American sports which were then globalized to the outside world. MMA is much more like Soccer, where great talent resides everywhere, and there are too many awesome soccer players to play all under one umbrella.
That is my take on it, anyways.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Co-promotion is a pipe dream. Boxing is completely co-promotion, and how damn long did it take to have Pacman and Floyd fight? Sorry, not fight, plan to fight, if they can decide where to have it….
Co-promotion is a sign of weakness, why the hell would you share profits with another company if you could do it on your own?
Guillotine.
by iiowyn on Dec 21, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Everything is a pipe-dream, really. That’s why we enjoy the big fights when they happen. When big money is on the table, boxing will make the fights, which is what is happening now. Consumers demand what product they want from the distributors, plain and simple.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t care if a MMA event comes from someone’s backyard – if it has matches like Thompson-Melendez or comebacks like Smoth-Le… I’ll watch it.
by lhasafi on Dec 21, 2009 4:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Scitt Smoth?
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Someone needs to do a combination of Scott Smith’s picture and Sloth from Goonies.
Guillotine.
by iiowyn on Dec 21, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Scitt Smoth ...
He always gets robbed of his Shitle Tots.
by asa on Dec 21, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like good fights
I don’t care if they’ll probably never win a title, I like watching Frankie Edgar, I like watching Matt Brown, I like watching Kurt Pelligrino. All this talk of “relevancy” drives me crazy, I don’t care if they’d lose to the best in the world, it’s still fun to watch.
by Shaun32887 on Dec 21, 2009 4:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If it drives you crazy then don’t read about it? EVERYONE here loves great fights, has fun watching fights, even if its two 0-3 guys fighting on a local mma card (one of best fights i ever saw), we all have our favorites who will never be best in the sport.
That isn’t the point of these discussions, of course watching fights is fun, or no one would do it. We’re talking about which fights “matter” more or most, because some of us actually like sports more than them just being something to watch, people actually care about the sports they watch, or no one would spend hours on BE reading about and discussion mma. And most people who care about mma want to see the best fight the best and/or care about fights that have meaning more than fights that don’t have meaning or have less meaning.
I watched every game of the UFL this season, loved it, but I care about the NFL more, and I don’t pretend the UFL champions are some sort of world champions, I watched it for what it was, low level professional football than was fun to watch. When my favorite team lost did it ruin my day, nope, when my Seahawks have a season like they are having in the NFL am I always pissed off, yes I am, because I care and it matters. Difference between casual sports fans and “true” sports fans, true sports fans invest time and energy into the sports they care about and even the littlest of things “matter”…
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you had me until Kurt Pellegrino.
by bobthewriter on Dec 21, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can explain!
The first time I saw him fight, it was the Alberto Crane fight. If you remember, that fight opened with Kurt getting a hole kicked into his face, and then consisted of Kurt beating the shit out of Crane until a 2nd round TKO. It’s hard not to become a fan after that.
by Shaun32887 on Dec 21, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t want to fighter bash, but there are reasons outside of his actual fights that people don’t like him.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I try to stay clear of those
I’m a fan of the sport, I generally don’t care what they’re like outside of MMA.
I guess it comes from spending my childhood playing guitar; when your heroes are rock guitarists, you have to focus on them as musicians and ignore all the other crap they do.
by Shaun32887 on Dec 21, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It has direct implications
Has to do with his BJJ credentials. Look it up..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what did he do? i did some casual googling and couldn’t find anything on him
by castleeb on Dec 21, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Add “Hermes Franca” to your search.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
by Beer Monster on Dec 21, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great article Rome. Agreed on all points.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 4:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Green Bay vs Pittsburg had playoff implications, if they Steelers had lost then they would be completely out of the playoff picture, it was a must win for them and also a very important game for Green Bay too. If both teams weren’t in the playoff hunt currently then that game wouldn’t of even been on tv in most markets. The Chiefs and the Browns had a real barn burner this week but no one cared because both teams have 3-11 records. The very fact that you got to see the game you got to see is because of the team records.
by who me on Dec 21, 2009 4:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
yup, i didn’t like his comparison either…didn’t make sense.
though people could have saw both games, some of us have Sunday Ticket (me) and multiple TV’s in one room (me again) and see everygame…
:-)
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and some of us live in KC where the fucking game was blacked out. I blame Blackout.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
It was me. You should be thankful after what Cribbs and Harrison did to you.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I streamed it online so instead of actually getting to see and hear what happened I got to see and hear about half of what happened.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ouch…
reminds me of Seattle up until about 2002, we had multiple (sometimes almost entire seasons) of our home games blacked out.
Hasn’t affected me in a while, but if you have Redzone channel (either the better one on DirecTV or the one NFL Network offers) they still show most of the TD’s live or right after they happen, including the game you have blacked out. Figure if Seahawks ever have a blackedout game that I’m not attending, that I would watch redzone channel and at least see the TD’s/big plays and some of the game live…
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
First time in 20 years we’ve had a game blacked out.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ya, I had read that, always say (besides Seattle of course, ha) that KC has the loudest and best fans in the NFL. Been there once, very loud in Arrowhead, but it’s not Quest…
:-)
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly
You haven’t been to the Metrodome.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ve been to my basement- concrete all around me and rough carpet on the floor, same thing.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
piped in noise doesn’t do it for me……boom
(as a side-note, now that the Hawks are officially done…I love Favre and am now rooting for him and the Vikings to win the SB just to show all the haters that they don’t know what they don’t know, and that’s football)…
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We were probably the loudest back in the mid-90’s, not the same anymore.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
90’s Chiefs (while I hated the team) were exciting to watch, always in the playoffs then would blow it but still a great team most years, including when Dave Krieg was at the helm…
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I loved watching Steve DeBerg run play-action. Oh, wait,.I never got to see that because the camera would always follow the runner.
by nottheface on Dec 21, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where about in kc?
I'm not calling him dad, even if theres a fire
by II SMASH II on Dec 21, 2009 7:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
North of the river, off 169 and Barry rd.
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
missouri side
Lived in parkville for 3 years. Now living in overland park lol still boring as hell
I'm not calling him dad, even if theres a fire
by II SMASH II on Dec 21, 2009 7:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I don’t think I could live in OP too busy for me. You work there?
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 8:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Made perfect sense
You guys are just being egghand-heads and taking away the wrong point.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You missed the point...
he said that neither team has much of a chance of winning the super bowl. Not that the game wasn’t important. But in the grand scheme of “which team is the best in the NFL” it probably has little meaning
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 21, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Steelers are the defending world champions
by who me on Dec 21, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Defending World Champs, chance at playoffs against a team most likely on their way to the playoffs and being in the playoffs gives you a legit chance at being world champ (#6 seed has won the SB before, multiple wildcard teams have won the SB, etc)
clearly everyone missed the point…
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
There are clear parallels, but you guys are looking for ways to find differences. You could do the same with any analogy.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like MMA
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 4:52 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Depends...
Which promotion holds this so called “MMA” IMO.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we all know your opinion.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am expecting everyone to blow up on me here and not realize that was a joke since I Rec’d your comment. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If UFC/WEC is the so-called MMA you’re talking about then you hate it…
that help with your expectations?
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love the WEC shows, always entertaining. Looking forward to UFC 110 too.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not what Anton said....
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SPLOSIONS
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like UFC.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
by Ubernoober on Dec 21, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I expect more posts and updates on this pointless topic.
by ilostmydog on Dec 21, 2009 5:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Is i too hard to say that both were great cards??
"Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit." -Mike Tyson
by mma is #1 on Dec 21, 2009 5:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How dare you…
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni
by midwestbred on Dec 21, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do people feel the need to defend SF from criticism?
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on Dec 21, 2009 5:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I don’t see it as defending SF from criticism, but defending SF from comparison. There’s definitely room for criticism, such as showing only 4 fights when they had plenty of time to show a prelim or two. That’s a different conversation however.
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni
by midwestbred on Dec 21, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ARRRG!!!! damn you showtime!!!
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Dec 21, 2009 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Use your powers to persuade them ekc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 22, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Because people are making comparisons, and distinctions, and acting as if their won’t be people who disagree. Saying SF is in another league than WEC, or stating that SF has closed the gap between itself and the UFC are clear examples of people comparing SF favorably to other promotions. If people are going to make bold and broad statements there will be people who start making deeper, and more thorough arguments to the likewise because they disagree.
Example:
SF is in another league than WEC...
people have responded to THAT statement saying- WEC has more relevant fights due to their fighters rankings in the world.
SF is closing the gap between itself and the UFC…
people have countered- Main eventing Cung Le vs. Scott Smith over the LW Championship fight, prelims , lack of ranked contenders in the fight, Herschel fucking Walker, a HW champ who hasn’t fought for your company in 2 years, lack of depth (half of your roster under contract for a different promotion)
We don’t have to judge every promotion by the standards we set on the UFC, but then we can’t simultaneously ignore those things and act as if SF is really competing with them at all.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on Dec 21, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
it’s a thing you can’t have both ways…
SF puts on exciting card and we can’t just leave it at that, someone has to say “It’s close to competing with the UFC” which equals the Comparison to UFC
that comment causes people to say “SF is nowhere near UFC” which equals the Criticism of SF…
then people say you can’t compare SF and UFC, yet the arguments always start when someone compares SF to UFC first….
so its both defending SF from criticism and defending SF from comparison…
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly what i was saying.
But more concise.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on Dec 21, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we posted at same time and I was just about to respond to yours saying that’s exactly what I was saying but with better examples…
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I also love the argument that fights are more relevant due to the size of the audience...
because based on that notion, Kimbo’s ranking must not matter either.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on Dec 21, 2009 5:38 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I get it Rome,
but that football analogy was awful.
Steelers-Packers are 2 teams in the best football league in the world.
A more apt description would be watching an exciting game in the UFL.
by SidHartman on Dec 21, 2009 5:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not really. An exciting game in the UFL has no bearing on the top end of a division. Melendez/Thomson are top 25 level guys
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 21, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s really not like the UFL. You have two borderline top 10 players, the winner here is going to fight the number 2 lightweight in the world. Nobody is going to be number 1 out of this mini tournament, but they are going to end up being highly ranked.
by Michael Rome on Dec 21, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s also worth noting that the UFC threw Diego Sanchez into a title shot off wins over two guys clearly outside the bounds of the top 10, the latter of which he almost lost. Is the fight blessed with relevance just because BJ is in it? Because everyone knew Diego was going to get killed.
by Michael Rome on Dec 21, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was relevant because badass PPV commercial voiceover guy said Diego was a bad dude and Joe Rogan screamed at us about how important it was.
by smoogy2 on Dec 21, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
just like Thompson vs. Melendez is a "Championship" fight
because StrikeForce says so? Tho neither guy was ranked in the top ten before this fight?
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on Dec 21, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Josh Thompson is borderline Top-10? Doh-kay!
And 2 of the last 3 Super Bowl Champs were wild cards. And the Cards last year were 9-7 and a play away from winning the SB.
by SidHartman on Dec 21, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
UFC = Coke
Pride = Pepsi
Strikeforce = RC Cola
EliteXC = Jolt
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
by Ubernoober on Dec 21, 2009 6:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Premier League/serie a/La Liga = UFC
MLS = Strikeforce
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Premier League, Serie A, and La Liga are all different “promotions”.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and are considered the 3 best leagues in the world, so any of the 3 could be the UFC, or really since UFC has so many of the top 10 fighters it could be all 3 leagues = Zuffa…
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope..
Know you don’t want to say it, but the correct analogy would be:
Premier League = UFC
La Liga = Strikeforce
Serie A = DREAM
MLS = MFC or the like.
Sure one league may have the most “best” futbol players in the world, but the others also have great talent.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am tying WEC with the UFC here.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Strikeforce isn’t at La Liga or Serie A talent yet. More along the Bundesliga.
by MMAWrestling on Dec 21, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha @ La Liga = SF…let’s be realistic…
ok, I’ll spread the leagues out for you…
Premier League = UFC/WEC
La Liga = no equal in mma
Serie A = no equal in mma
Bundesliga = DREAM
MLS = Strikeforce
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But there has to be an equal, see, that is where the problem is. If Strikeforce is the #2 MMA promotion in the world, then they need to be one of those. Sorry, that’s how it works. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this one better. Or maybe even Scottish Premier League = Strikeforce.
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/12/sbieuropeanclubtop25.html
by MMAWrestling on Dec 21, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All can be accepted, I guess.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Affliction = Faygo
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Juggalo Championship Wrestling = Faygo
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
by Beer Monster on Dec 21, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cola. The analogy only works if it’s cola. Why the hell did you have to twist my perfectly formed analogy into something completely different?
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
by Ubernoober on Dec 21, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pride compared to Pepsi is just doesn’t sit right.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See...
That’s better. Pepsi doesn’t cut it.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pepsi is the “cool” choice, and has a much more stylistic flair.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
by Ubernoober on Dec 21, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you see that Coke robot above?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Dec 21, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
He’s terrorizing children.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoop... He would whoop his ass
Rampage is back, you know.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WEC = ROH
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
by Beer Monster on Dec 21, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WEC=ECW
Come on, the letters are even interchangable!
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ECW gets zero respect though. ROH is full of smaller guys who put on great matches that only the hardcore fans pay attention to, but those fans are rabid supporters of the brand. Sounds like a pretty good (yet totally pointless) comparison to me.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
by Beer Monster on Dec 21, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s actually a pretty accurate analogy.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shocker that MMA fans would miss the point again...
WE MUST NOT FOCUS ON THE POINT OF A STORY! WE MUST FOCUS ON THE ANALOGY!
NATE SAID ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER! GRRR!
ROME SAID THAT THE TALK OF WHICH IS MORE RELEVANT IS A WASTE OF TIME! GRR!
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 21, 2009 6:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
And Rome is clearly wrong.
Relevance matters.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Dec 21, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The difference:
Article word count: 434
Cola Analogy word count: 13
Advantage: Cola Analogy
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
by Ubernoober on Dec 21, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Packers are a wild card
Is Melendez a wild card?
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if he beats Aoki he is top 5
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 21, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's actually true
I was making a ridiculous point and you made a valid one. Thanks a lot.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Dec 21, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is sad actually.
Melendez would lose to the top 6-8 UFC fighters.
by Riney on Dec 21, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which ones are those and what evidence could you possibly have to support your argument?
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
by FRANKIE on Dec 22, 2009 2:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How come everyone (you and Michael included) keeps saying how useless it is to compare the two yet Nate did exactly that and you continue to defend it?
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
And that's a rec.
for a reference that I haven’t heard in about 8 years, and love with all my heart. Thanks for the reminder. Now I’m gonna go pee in my pants. And if peeing your pants is cool… consider me Miles Davis.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Dec 22, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus, Nate made one ambiguous comment comparing the 2 in a long post that was about how good both of them were, and you Won’t. Let. It. Go…for over 2 days now. Stop trying to argue a point that is a total non-issue.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
by Beer Monster on Dec 21, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think ufc4’s point is that nate compared the two yet when people compare the two in the comments then it’s stupid to compare them and pointless, and he’s asking which is it? can we compare the two? or is it pointless? (both would be my answer, fun to compare but as with most debates it’s pointless)…and somehow that has spawned multiple other posts on the topic of WEC v. SF and how pointless it is to debate them…ha
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are many different writers here with many different opinions. Neither has the “BE stamp of approval” because that label doesn’t exist. Rome’s offering a differing viewpoint. The difference is, Nate used one line of a post that had nothing to do with comparing them, while Rome has written out a detailed analysis. Personally, I agree with Rome.
My point is that Nate made a one line comment, which doesn’t even insult the WEC and could be taken any number of ways, in a post where he praised BOTH organizations. Some people (like ufc4) won’t let it die because they’re just trying to dredge up controversy. For 2 days. Why do people contstantly do this?
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
by Beer Monster on Dec 21, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“Why do people contstantly do this?”
They are bored? They have fun debating?
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What part of Nate’s comment was ambiguous?
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 8:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I think you have completely misread his comment (which of course wasn’t helped by Nate’s wording). I took it mean the Strikeforce was in a different league promotional wise. The WEC was held at the Pearl of the Palms in front of 2500 people on an obscure cable channel. Strikeforce was held at the HP Pavilion in front of 15,000 on Showtime. The disparity between the promotional strength was very apparent, just as the promotional strength between the UFC and Strikeforce is readily apparent. There is no getting around the fact, people will not watch smaller fighters by themselves. They are drawn by the HW, but they’ll stick around to watch the better fighters.
by nottheface on Dec 21, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That obscure cable channel probably had very close to the same amount of viewers as the SF card on Showtime.
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 8:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
There is a big difference between Versus, available on 60-70 million homes, and a 18 million subscriber channel. Just as there is a difference between “Dexter” and “Sports Jobs with Junior Seau”.
And I am a fan of the WEC, which I why I want to see those runts folded into the UFC so they can get the exposure to the masses they deserve.
by nottheface on Dec 21, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think what Nate said was kind of dumb...
but the fact that regardless of what gets said by anyone it is going to turn into a Zuffa v. everything else story is wearing me out.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 21, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nate is the one who turned Saturday night into Zuffa vs. everyone else, don’t blame us.
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 8:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I can blame people for carrying it into this post and every other one about anything ever
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 21, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The freaking post is about the topic Brent what do you expect?
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 8:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Well, at least from what I can remember, everyone was happy just discussing the events of the evening as it was a good night of exciting fights, until Nate’s wrapup post where he went out of his way to slight Zuffa and praise SF. Both cards were great but he felt the need to mention how one was “clearly” superior to the other. I’d be happy to drop it but Rome decided to bring it back up with some odd NFL comparison and a made up story about us not liking to watch any fights that don’t involve top-5 fighters which clearly isn’t true. Don’t keep stirring the pot then talk down to us about “not getting it” when we comment on it.
by ufc4 on Dec 22, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well it’s nice to see I’m not the only one who sees the problem here, somehow I’ve become the bad guy in this whole thing when Nate is the one who started it and Rome writes an entire article egging it on.
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is likely going to be my last comment until at least after Christmas as I desperately need to get away from some of these arguments.
What I was saying was that when Nate dropped his line people freaked out…okay, I can see that.
Then Rome says it’s dumb to worry about relevance rather than just enjoying good fights. And everyone latches on to the analogy like it actually matters and that becomes the biggest talking point of the article. I would hope that people would be able to pick up on the point despite an analogy that may not have connected with them.
It is just exhausting to me lately the way that every little thing becomes a fight.
And for you to read this:
If you can only enjoy a lightweight fight when BJ Penn is involved, you’re really missing out on a lot and should probably re-evaluate what it is you like so much about MMA, because most fights do not have the best fighters in the world involved.
And decide that he said you’re unable to enjoy fights without top 5 talent shows a continued inability to comprehend the point of the article. When the previous discussions (see the Cung Le Judo Chop, most strikeforce fight announcements, the Melendez/Thomson talk…etc for reference) all center around how the fights don’t mean anything, that is Mike’s point. But if you want to decide that every time anything is discussed it is aimed directly at ufc4..there isn’t a lot more discussion to be had I suppose.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 22, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What is the point of the story then? That it’s pointless to debate WEC and SF?? (yet Kid Nate did that exact thing and gets defended for doing so…(note: I like kid nates work, just pointing out for argument sake))
I know each staff member has their own opinions and stands by them, but it’s kinda confusing when Nate says one thing, then Rome writes this (assuming comment sections caused him to do so) and all we get is a bad NFL analogy and a statement saying “if you can only enjoy a lightweight fight when BJ Penn is involved…..”, I mean, where did anyone say they can only watch the #1 fighter in the division and thats all they can enjoy??? I haven’t seen one person say that or anything close to that….
I did see that Nate’s comment sparked a debate on WEC v. SF and which card was “better”…and I did see people say the fact that some fights have more relevance than others in terms of mma rankings, and because of that IF THEY HAD TO CHOOSE (which most people didn’t) that they would prefer to watch the fights that mean more in terms of rankings as opposed to fights that don’t mean as much (like WEC showing two top ten BW’s against eachother opposed to SF showing two outside the top ten LW’s as their best fight in terms of rankings going into the fight)
where in that does it say that if you enjoy the best fighting the best that you HAVE TO hate everything else?? Nowhere, exactly, yet this whole article goes on about how if you didn’t enjoy this fight you’re not a fan, etc…EVERYONE enjoyed the fight, it was semi-relevant but caused by kid nates comment there was a discussion about WEC v. SF and which had more relevant fights and on Saturday night WEC had two top ten BW’s fighting (relevant) while SF had two outside the top ten LW’s fighting (semi-relevant)…
brilliant, then we get this;
“it frankly didn’t matter that neither one of them has much of a chance to win the superbowl.”
Some of us think that’s a terrible analogy, if you enjoy Chiefs-Browns because it’s a great game that has little to no meaning then great, but enjoying a Steelers-Packers game that has ALOT of meaning?? wow, you enjoyed a great game that also has huge implications for not only both teams in the game, but other teams in the playoff race, who wouldn’t enjoy that….ruins the analogy. Plus the fact that Steelers are defending champions, also have won a SB from the 6th seed, which if they make playoffs this year (slim chance but a chance) it would be as 6th seed, then the Packers are most likely going to be in the playoffs and as history has shown, just getting to the playoffs means you have as good as chance as any at winning the SB. Which ruins the last part of his analogy/statement also saying neither has much of a chance, just like the Steelers didn’t have much of a chance in 2005 right??
by Reaser16 on Dec 21, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That analogy totally sucked, though.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Dec 21, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Seems to me the point of the story was to chastise us for discussing something Nate said that you guys disagree with. Sound about right?
by ufc4 on Dec 21, 2009 8:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Keep fightin’ the power buddy. You tell em.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
by Beer Monster on Dec 21, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ultimately, the writers on this site are their own voice. If this was my article and you started spouting off the same arguments, I’d probably have no clue what you’re talking about. I try to read everything, but all of my articles are my own thoughts. I think you should treat this piece along with Brent’s comments in the same context, not try to “out” people for some other line of thinking that doesn’t seem present to me.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 22, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So its all about analogy huh. If a MMA production company falls in the woods would anyone buy the PPV?
Is this like Wizard of Oz where there a bunch of crappy singing and you really have to think to get the deeper meaning but after sitting through an hour or so you just end up wondering if the scarecrow is banging Dorothy? Is Lorenzo Fertitta Glenda the good witch because now I am really confused?
by who me on Dec 21, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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HT: m-1global.com
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