USAT/SBN December MMA Consensus Rankings: Light Heavyweight
by Kid Nate on Dec 17, 2009 11:35 AM EST
in MMA Rankings
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Rankings compiled by Richard Wade.
| Rank | Fighter | % | Promotion | Last Rank |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Lyoto Machida | 100 | UFC | 1 |
| 2 | Mauricio Rua | 92 | UFC | 2 |
| 3 | Rashad Evans | 91 | UFC | 3 |
| 4 | Quinton Jackson | 83 | UFC | 4 |
| 5 | Forrest Griffin | 79 | UFC | 5 |
| 6 | Antonio Rogerio Nogueira | 76 | UFC | 9 |
| 7 | Gegard Mousasi | 76 | Strikeforce | 6 |
| 8 | Thiago Silva | 71 | UFC | 7 |
| 9 | Anderson Silva | 51 | UFC | 8 |
| 10 | Randy Couture | 41 | UFC | NR |
| 11 | Luis Arthur Cane | 40 | UFC | 10 |
| 12 | Rich Franklin | 37 | UFC | 11 |
| 13 | Dan Henderson | 31 | Strikeforce | 13 |
| 14 | Renato Sobral | 30 | Strikeforce | 14 |
| 15 | Keith Jardine | 30 | UFC | 12 |
| 16 | Jon Jones | 27 | UFC | 15 |
| 17 | Brandon Vera | 22 | UFC | 17 |
| 18 | Matt Hamill | 21 | UFC | 20 |
| 19 | Sokoudjou | 21 | DREAM/Strikeforce | 18 |
| 20 | Chuck Liddell | 20 | UFC | 16 |
| 21 | Tito Ortiz | 20 | UFC | 25 |
| 22 | Vitor Belfort | 19 | UFC | 23 |
| 23 | Wanderlei Silva | 19 | UFC | 22 |
| 24 | Mark Coleman | 18 | UFC | 21 |
| 25 | Paulo Filho | 18 | DREAM | 24 |
No division has seen more movement at the very top ranks in the last year than light heavyweight. MMA fans have said "The King is Dead, Long Live the (new) King" of the division more times at 205lbs than happens in most divisions in five years.
Twelve months ago, #5 Forrest Griffin was #1. The ex-champ had a rough year, losing to #3 Rashad Evans (was #4) and #9 Anderson Silva (wasn't ranked at 205lbs last year) while beating #21 Tito Ortiz (was #15) by split decision.
A year ago, #1 Lyoto Machida was #3 and it seemed unlikely he would even get a title shot because of his "boring" style. Fortunately for Machida, the timing for #4 Quinton "Rampage" Jackson (then #2) to get a title shot never worked out last year and Machida took the belt.
But the sun may already be setting on the "Machida Era" after his first title defense against #2 Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (was #9) ended in a very controversial decision for Machida.
Evans hasn't fought since his May loss to Machida and he's due to fight #8 Thiago Silva (was #8) at UFC 108 in a couple of weeks. But Evans didn't spend most of the year on the shelf to face Silva, he was supposed to settle his TUF Season 10 grudge match by fighting Rampage at UFC 107 in Memphis. Sadly, when the A-Team calls, Quinton walks out on the UFC.
#6 Antonio Rogerio Nogueira (was #10) built up a nice head of steam by KO'ing #11 Luis Arthur Cane (was #11) in his UFC debut, but a broken ankle will sideline him for the early part of 2010.
#7 Gegard Mousasi was the #6 ranked middleweight a year ago but beating Mark Hunt, #14 Renato "Babalu" Sobral (was #16), and #19 Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou (was #17) and taking the Strikeforce Light Heavyweight title has him riding high. No word on who he'll face in his first title defense.
Based on the premise that all MMA rankings are subjective but that it’s still useful and informative to know who the online MMA community as a whole ranks as the best fighters in MMA, we collect and average the rankings of the top MMA websites to produce our consensus rankings.
We compile the top MMA rankings from each of our sources and award 25 points for a first place ranking, 16 for a 10th place ranking, 1 for a 25th place ranking. A formula is used to "normalize" the data so all fighters are awarded points from those lists that do not include a full 25 fighters. This formula ensures that each ranking site awards the same number of total points regardless of how many fighters they choose to rank. Each fighter’s total is divided by the number of possible points to determine their standing in the Consensus Rankings.
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Jon Jones
How did Jon Jones drop a spot and Matt Hamill go up 2?
The Hammer “won.”
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi
by Richard Wade on Dec 17, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
No kidding.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi
by Richard Wade on Dec 17, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Some of these make me a sad panda.
Soko being right next to Chuck? Might be fair, but still…
I’m a little surprised that Lyoto is undisputed number one still. I figured one or two sites would try to be the ballsy revolutionary and rank Shogun above him.
And does anybody really think that Anderson vs. Randy would be a good fight at 205? Ratings based matchmaking ftl. At least it tells us to match up Luiz Cane and Rich Franklin. That could be a sick fight to put three from the top of a PPV.
I wanna see little nog vs forrestb
by kanodogg on Dec 17, 2009 12:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Looks like the UFC has signed every LHW in the top 25.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
Every single person on this list except Mousasi has been under a Zuffa contract at some point. How amazing is that?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 17, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Again...
these rankings are compiled from a multitude of different sites. They are not our own rankings…but a reflection of the opinions of a set of respected sites
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 17, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
the one thing that really throws off our rankings
is fighters who jump back and forth between weight classes. Especially since some sites only rank fighters at one weight.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Some sites only have Anderson ranked at Middleweight.
Hence they are not counted…
I’m beginning to think that multi division guys should have assumed or theoretical rankings for the sites who only rank in one division. If you want that from me, let me know… Our points are no longer seamless, we adjust by division now.
Creator of the FightMatrix rating system.
I think they should. I don’t see anyone on the light heavyweight list that Anderson doesn’t beat ‘hands down’ ;) like Griffin or at least go in as a favorite. On the other hand, he’s only beaten two guys and neither had the wrestling skills to be a real threat to him.
by HarmlessNinja on Dec 17, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
For us anyhow..
If you add (or take away) approx 18% of the points, you can gather the other division’s rating. Add if you are calculating a rating one division beneath where we have the fighter ranked.. and subtract that if its one above.
For other sites I think you need a rule, even if its not super accurate, it gives the fighter SOMETHING as its clear this is a pretty big issue.
But before you post the results, you need to figure out which fighters can legitimately be placed in more than one division.
Creator of the FightMatrix rating system.
Well, if the other sites used a comparable point system, that might work. Still, something like that is a solid idea.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi
by Richard Wade on Dec 17, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
That would be great.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi
by Richard Wade on Dec 17, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think Rich Franklin vs. Keith Jardine would make a really good co-main event for something
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
+1
Franklin vs. Cane and Franklin vs. Hamill are also good.
I just hope Anderson doesn’t move up and chase Franklin out of another division. I don’t think Rich would make a good heavyweight.
by HarmlessNinja on Dec 17, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
We’ve already seen Franklin vs. Hamill.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi
by Richard Wade on Dec 17, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Seems reasonable to me. A mediocre win over #17 Vera + solid performance versus a top-ranked heavyweight (Nog). I’m glad he’s down to LH and I think he beats most of the guys below him.
by HarmlessNinja on Dec 17, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
ok that makes sense i guess but there is someone else more deserving, i watched the couture v vera fight and i thought i remember him losing, my bad, oh now i remember why i dont remember the winner, because that was the most boring stand and pray fight ever, both should have gotten a loss, i love both these guys but that was a bad display, i guess the fight was too evenly matched
Hmmm, let’s see…
—Rich Franklin above Dan Henderson.
—Randy Couture at #10, apparently for beating #17
—Mousasi at #7
—Tito Ortiz in the top 25 despite not having beaten anyone other than Ken Shamrock in the last three years
—Paulo Filho at #25 for beating… Alex Schoenauer, I guess?
All very goofy.
no one said the overall MMA community has figured out a great way to rank fighters
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
- Couture has dropped down after a good performance against a top five heavyweight, so I think he gets credit for that. Franklin and Henderson also changed weight classes and their fight was very close.
- I agree with you about Moussasi, but he DID finish #14 and #19 so… Hopefully he gets tested with Hendo.
- I guess Tito gets a lot of credit for taking Forrest to a decision, but I think you’re right.
- It’s best not to speculate about anything regarding Paulo Filho.
by HarmlessNinja on Dec 17, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Stetching a bit.
- Couture lost a dominant, one sided decision against Nog where he was dropped with punches and in real danger of being submitted. In a different weight class. Then he won a controversial decision that could have gone either way with a guy who wasn’t top 10 at the time.
- Mousasi beat Bablu when he was fringe top ten in an utterly dominant and borderline nightmare inducing fashion.
- Yeah, but in 12 UFC fights Forrest has three wins by stoppage. On paper it sounds nice but going to a decision loss with him ain’t a huge deal. The reality of that fight, especially the third round, says a lot about where Tito should be. I wonder how he’d do against a contemporary journeyman like K-Sos. Honestly, I don’t like his chances.
- I thought Filho’s fight with Manhoef was at 205, could be wrong on that though. I know his two Bitetti Combat appearances are LHW. Being at #25 isn’t a huge deal I don’t think, but as you said, it’s best not to speculate on anything Filho.
I think the Manhoef fight is the reason
he’s being ranked in this division.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
- I think Couture coming down to a division in which he’s had success before from one where he’s undersized gives him a bump. I also probably give him more credit for both those fights than you do. I don’t like it, but that’s his style.
- More recently though, the lower-ranked Sokoudjou gave Mousassi some problems and put him on his back, though to be honest I think that was more a case of Sokoudjou looking pretty good (and finally using his judo throws!)
- I don’t think Tito is relevant anymore and I’m glad about that. He’s one of the few fighters I don’t like and I hope Chuck knocks him out. I agree Krzysztof would have been a good fight though.
- I agree that Filho at 25 is reasonable.
by HarmlessNinja on Dec 17, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I agree on the second two, but...
Couture at LHW, 2004 – present: Controversial win over Vera, KTFO by Chuck, Win via sub over Mike Van Arsdale, KTFO by Chuck, TKO Vitor, TKO by Vitor. I know Fightfinder doesn’t tell the story on Randy accurately, but read through that again. He hasn’t won two in a row at LHW since 2003 when he beat Chuck and Tito. It’s all top competition, but same with Jardine and he put two in a row together in 2006 at least. He hasn’t had a dominant win at LHW since Van Arsdale at UFC 54. That’s half the numbered UFC events and nine seasons of TUF ago. I know he’s a legend and has done insane things in MMA, but I’m tired of the “being motherfucking RANDY!” criterion in MMA rankings.
One thing to remember is that first round Sokoudjou is a fucking wrecking ball. If he could do that for three rounds, he would beat a third of the guys ranked above him. Fightfinder actually tells a pretty good story on this one. You’ll either lose to him in the first or you’re gonna win in the second.
Generally speaking, I’m against ranking a fighter based on accomplishments in other weight classes. I think it’s really silly.
I’m also against ranking a fighter based on looking good in a loss. A loss is a loss.
Franklin and Henderson also changed weight classes and their fight was very close.
So what if it was close? Henderson won the fight, and neither guy has fought at 205 since. There’s no good reason for having Henderson below Franklin. I realize it’s probably because these are cumulative rankings and some people aren’t ranking Henderson at LHW for whatever silly reason, but that’s exactly my point—the consensus method produces all kinds of weird results.
Come to think of it, I don’t think there’s any good reason to be ranking Franklin in the top 15 at all.
These rankings dont mean anything. The UFC brass already know where they stack everybody in the rankings and who they want to see matched up. These should include PPV draw power if you want to see where people stack in UFC’s eyes.
Thanks for your input, but that’s not what we’re trying to see at all.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "I win again. Engrish is my bitch." - Steven Zucconi
by Richard Wade on Dec 17, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
How the hell did Matyushenko drop off the top 25 entirely? I guess some of the sites just dumped him down 10-15 spots for losing to Rogerio, one of the best in the world? That is the kind of baffling omission that undermines the entire list.
Vlad was in the 10-14 range not too long ago, and that is where he still should be. I would pick him against Rich Franklin, Forrest Griffin or Luis Cane at this point.
ATTN: JRN
- Shogun (I was front row on the floor at 104 and know what I saw)
- Lyoto Machida
- Lil Nog
- Rashad Evans
- Rampage
- Forrest Griffin
- Gegard Mousasi
- Thiago Silva
- Dan Henderson
- Rich Franklin
- Luiz Cane
- Keith Jardine
- Renato Sobral
- Randy Couture (not happy about this one, was more impressed by Vera that fight, but Randy has tools that judges reward)
- Brandon Vera
- Jon Jones
- Chuck Liddell
- King Mo (generous)
- Matt Hammil
- Vladimir Matyushenko
- Wanderlei Silva (wouldn’t include him at all given his weight change, but figured you wanted to know where I’d place him)
- Mark Coleman
- Manhoef
- Sokoudjou
- Tito Ortiz
I base these on quality of recent performances, official record, and my gut. Anderson Silva is excluded because he won’t consistently fight at LHW and I can’t have him mucking up my top 10 when I don’t get anything new from him, especially since 4/5 times he beats everyone but Shogun, Lyoto, Rogerio, and big maybe, Mousasi. I’m open to any comments regarding placements. I am not, however, open to criticism of my method, since my gut totally knows what’s up.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
If I can’t criticize your gut (not that I would want to, or know how), what grounds have I got for criticism?
T'was a joke.
Criticize away, sir. My gut is currently too distracted by chili to notice.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
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