Quote of the Day: NSAC's Keith Kizer Talks About the Return of Big John McCarthy
by Kid Nate on Dec 15, 2009 2:00 PM EST
in MMA News
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"We have him and about 40 other people pending. It's just a matter of when there's the next opening and then we look at the applications and go from there.
"There could be an opening in a month; there could be an opening in about three years."
Nevada State Athletic Commission Chair Keith Kizer channels Franz Kafka while discussing the possible return of Big John McCarthy with Ariel Helwani.
It's not like there's any reason to want better referees than we currently have in Nevada. Steve Mazzagatti is doing just great, ask Jon Jones.
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I second that, when it looked like jones had the w I was thinking WTF, how can you tko a guy with an illegal strike and not be dq’d
by kanodogg on Dec 15, 2009 2:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
mazzagati asked a deaf man (with his eyes closed) if he could continue, when he got no response, he called the fight. how did hammil even know mazzagati was talking to him?
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Dec 15, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well reasonably what was mazagatti supposed to do when hamill was defending himself.. perhaps used a braille tablet?
Talk to his cornermen
who can hear and sign maybe? Let the blood be cleared from his eyes, then let Matt read his lips? Maybe use a little common sense, I don’t know.
I can die happy now that I've been to a UFC event. 107 rocked
by slapjaw ackrite on Dec 15, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s kind of weird how people take as a negative the fact that Mazagatti knew from looking at him that Hamill was seriously hurt and could not continue the fight. What difference would it have made if he had gone and talked to the corner, realized “yes indeed, what I thought 60 seconds ago was correct!” and then called it?
I bet that would make everybody on the internet raise up and celebrate the stoppage.
So that's why he yelled, asking if he could continue?
What difference would it have made if he knew Matt couldn’t continue due to a shoulder injury that was completely unrelated to a downward elbow? Probably a big one, you know, like a different appearance on two fighter’s win/loss records, bank accounts, etc…
I can die happy now that I've been to a UFC event. 107 rocked
by slapjaw ackrite on Dec 15, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
People are really caught up on the fact he verbally asked a question he was trained to ask to ask any fighter in that situation. Being trained and accustomed to asking an injured fighter if they can continue is a very good thing… as is seeing in his physical comportment that he’s not going to be able to continue. He asked out of habit then realized the answer even if Hamill wasn’t involved in the dialog. It was obvious to everyone watching that he wasn’t going to be allowed to continue.
If you want to rip on the guys ability to discern when internal injuries happen from watching the replay… ok, godspeed. But unless he could see the moment it popped, and Hamill admitted through an interpreter that the shoulder was the only reason he couldn’t continue… Jones gets justifiably DQ’d.
No, no he didn’t. The right call would have been actually finding out why the fighter wanted to stop.
by Chris Barton on Dec 15, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
why would Mazzagatti care
about dude’s age/sex/location?
by bobthewriter on Dec 15, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Rec
For making me laugh out loud at work
by Chris Barton on Dec 15, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
He should have stopped the fight
before it even got to that point.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Dec 15, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Hamill was getting killed but he was still defending himself. More importantly he was intelligently defending himself. So unless Hamill verbally submits there is not much for Steve to do, unless you want the refs to start stepping in because a fighter is completely outclassed. In which case they should have stopped BJ and DIego at the end of round 1.
If a fighter is “getting killed” the fight should be stopped whether he is able to lift his arms to stop some of the punches/elbows or not.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 15, 2009 2:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yelling "are you OK?"
at a deaf fighter is the definition of bad reffing.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Dec 15, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
If anything he wasn’t yelling loud enough.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
LOL
I work at a hospital and just had a deaf patient. I must have looked like a fool because I found myself yelling words at her like that’s going to help! Sometimes you just aren’t thinking. I’m one for bringing Big John back. He may not be the best in the biz, but he is def top tier.
by SHOGUNROBBERY on Dec 15, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Standard operating procedure for Americans. If someone doesn’t speak English well…or are deaf…it just means that you need to be louder.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 15, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I find its better safe than sorry
I yell at anyone who might for any reason not understand me.
Old people, minorities, the deaf and blind, men wearing scarves.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
The fight needed to be stopped earlier. Hammil was injured. It may or may not have been possible to tell this by seeing him.
Regardless when the fight was stopped to take away a point for the illegal blow he should have found out why Hammill couldn’t continue. They went to the trouble of checking the instant replay to see if that blow ended the fight but never bothered to ask the fighter why he couldn’t continue.
This fight would have been a TKO with a more competent ref.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
I simply don't understand
How can you justify not wanting to hire the best available talent? “We don’t have space” is nonsense, there is no reason to not hire the best in ANY company.
They don’t have space on the roster for a RB in NE but if Chris Johnson wanted to play there they’d make freaking space.
by Chris Barton on Dec 15, 2009 2:06 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
srsly!
"He will lie between resentment and regret. He shed his grace. As certain as a snake sheds its skin. Laid waste to a wealth of talent--his curse being blessed with treasures that just were not gold enough"
by ProfessorBLove on Dec 15, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
So what?
I’m not sure why that would preclude him from being a ref for the NSAC. Rampage made money for years in PRIDE while shit talking the UFC but they gave him a job.
by Chris Barton on Dec 15, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
When has Big John ever had any bias as a ref? Never. It’s inane to suggest that he would start now.
by Chris Barton on Dec 15, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Fighters and Refs are held to different standards for impartiality.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
And has Big John ever shown ANY indication that he would be anything other than impartial while reffing a fight?
No
by Chris Barton on Dec 15, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
the problem is, he already bailed on them once.
If they fire someone to hire him, then he comes back, then he jumps at another opportunity (which he’s already done), now they are in a worse spot than they are right now, because whoever they fire today, but then rehire after he bails will be less experienced on that day then he would be if they never hired him.
I’m not 100% against BJM coming back, but I can see where the NSAC is coming from.
Why did Big John lose his license to begin with?
Just when I thought I could not like Machida any less....UFC 104
he got uppity
and spoke truth to power.
from Sherdog:
“I had a criticism toward people being put into place as far as officiating. I have a problem when you have an official who is put into place to have an impact on the sport I love when they don’t understand the sport, when they don’t understand what the fighters are doing. They understand someone getting hit in the face. They don’t understand the manipulations of the ground game and who is winning the fight. I probably should’ve shut my mouth because I’ve got a big mouth, and it’s got me in a lot of trouble, but it’s the truth. I want everyone to understand what is really happening in the sport so they can make educated decisions and judgments.”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Thanks Nate. That seems remarkably petty and does nothing to help the reputation of state athletic commissions. I am just mentally picturing Cheetch Marin’s character from “The Great White Hype” sitting in his office.
“He said what? Well than take away his licence!”
Just when I thought I could not like Machida any less....UFC 104
Nate didn’t actually answer your question. BJM didn’t have his license taken away or lost due to any comments or ‘speaking truth to power.’
BJM lost his license because he quit. He retired from reffing after the TUF 6 finale. Because of that, he presmably either voluntarily withdrew his license or did not get it renewed (I can’t see the NSAC renewing the license of a retiree).
His present difficulty is getting a new license to ref in Nevada. However, Nevada seems to only carry around 6-7 MMA referees (IIRC, could be more or less) and they replaced him with two new referees when he retired (Rosenthal and the female ref). So they’ve already filled their quota of referees and BJM is relegated to the waiting list if he wants a new license.
by ilostmydog on Dec 15, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That you believe in the mythical rigid hierarchy of this alleged “waiting list” is hilarious.
by Luke Thomas on Dec 16, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
No.
He quit, and he took a job that precluded him from being a ref. He lost his license because he threw it away.
And the reason he’s not getting it back is the same reason that if you quit your job at the Tasty-Freeze you won’t get it back: even if you were the best cashier in the history of the franchise, they have 3 dozen other people who are willing to work and not PROVEN to quit on you.
I love Big John, but he’s in the position he is because of his own actions: he wanted to chase the big bucks, and now he’s not happy with how that ended. Boohoo.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Dec 15, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’d say the difference is that there’s more danger in MMA than Tasty-Freeze, and you want people who know how to minimize it.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 15, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
But that doesn't address the point of my analogy.
Try this one: A doctor who storms out of a hospital to take a job as the new Sanjay Gupta on CNN doesn’t get his job back just because he realizes that CNN won’t pay him what he wants. Right? Certainly not at the hospital that he quit at.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
unlike TastyFreeze
Big John performs a very skilled function that entails men putting their life in his hands. He’s also universally acclaimed as the best to ever perform that job while others who have the job are widely decried as incompetent.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
So do doctors and EMTs and a million other people in this country.
And if they storm out in a huff, who wants them back?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
My biggest issue with mma referee's is it's too inconsistent
Why is it that a ref like Mazagatti will stand up and take away a point from fighters for an “illegal hit” without warning but then others will sit there and warn fighters repeatedly.
“Watch the back of the head”.
The other problem is there is no way to determine what is accidental and what is on purpose but the NSAC and others think they can. How can anyone know that Jon Jones puposely knew that 12-6 elbows were illegal and still threw it? And how can you tell that a groin shot isnt inntentional. What because they act sorry afterwards?
MMA still has a long way to go. I literally cringed when I saw Mazagatti ref’ing the Aldo/Brown fight because I feared he would mess it up and that is a bad sign for mma. I am all for enforcing the rules of mma but I think there has to be more consistency.
This
I literally cringed when I saw Mazagatti ref’ing
I have that happen every time I see him in the ring and that is never a good sign.
by Chris Barton on Dec 15, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
I agree he is a shitty ref (see ben rothwell/ Cain) and people shit all over him for that. The Hammill fight the guy was on bottom but doing a pretty good job of deflecting elbows and defending.
As for the 12-6 elbows come on man. Alot of groin shots are hard to tell if they are intended or not due to the fact they are thrown as leg kicks alot. Kongo on the other hand seems to land knees to the balls quite a bit. There is no way to throw an accidental 12-6, there is no other technique that requires the same type of upward and downward movement of the elbow.
Accidental vs. intentional is different from intentional vs. ignorant
It doesn’t matter if Jones knew they were illegal or not. Honestly that is 100000% on Jones. He has fought enough to have taken the time to learn the rules. Ignorance is not an excuse for a foul.
And yes, there is a bit of gray area where refs have to be able to try to interpret behavior. 90% of the time you can tell when a headbutt was thrown intentionally vs. a clash of heads. Groin knee shots are a bit more difficult to tell than a punch to the groin (in attempting a body punch) just because of the knees to the thighs. Honestly, I’d be 100% okay with outlawing knees to the thighs from the clinch.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 15, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
How many times did Steve say “watch the back of the head Georges” in GSP’s third fight with Hughes? I could go back tonight and watch it to be sure, it was at least 4 or 5. How
many times did he tell Brock in his first fight with Mir? Maybe once? I don’t have that DVD but if someone does or has it on their computer please check. It’s that kind of inconsistency that is so annoying/frustrating.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 15, 2009 4:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I always love watching that fight, I will check right now.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
i still see the conflict of interest with big john
big john mccarthy has become his own brand, and i personally dont like him reffing any fights. i think he is above calling a fight for any personal gain, but i think the precedent that is set doesnt take into consideration any future persons morals. precedents like this should have no basis on an individuals moral compass. (now you may flame me)
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
If BJM gets hired...
I’m assuming all the bad blood/conflict will get squashed.
There won’t be any conflict.
And BJM will not sacrifice his reputation like that.
We bitch and moan (with reason) about shitty officiating.
THE BEST ref in the sport is currently sitting on the bench.
Highly illogical, captain.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Dec 15, 2009 2:54 PM EST reply actions
Leave it up to the government to fuck shit up.....
I swear, every thing the government touches becomes corrupt. Little squabbles like this shit is the reason fight sport is so fucked up. Regulators need to have some sort of motivation (I have no clue what that could be) to have their organization be as high functioning as possible. When you have government appointed people in jobs they just do whatever they want. When there is no profit motive ppl can just blackball guys like Big John and not care.
Yeah, man, the FDA has been totally useless...
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
by duck on Dec 15, 2009 6:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't believe anything the commissions say when it comes to refs and judges.
Except what Nick Lembo says. He is the man.
When he refs...
He’ll get a better reception then Lesner-Couture 2
Fertita, Dana, lets make it happen!
Mazz made a good call.
Not the best call, but I don’t see any of you armchair refs doing a better job.
Being a ref is hard.
You can say that he should have stopped it earlier, but that’s a judgement. Matt may not have been improving his position, but he wasn’t out. And Jones may not like it, but he knew the fucking rules before he went in the cage.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
I like Mazzagatti as a ref.
Really, I do.
I particularly vicious illegal blow warrants immediate sanction.
Grabbing the fence probably warrants sanction only if it’s flagrant despite warnings, or if it has a significant impact on the events of the fight (like Rashad-Tito).
I have no complaints with Mazzagatti’s reffing.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Not going to be liked but agreed.
If he did stop it before the illegal strikes you know that we would all be here calling him out for stopping it too early, now Dana doesnt like him, that means a whole load of grief either way, the guy is pretty much screwed.
by Chrisapalooza on Dec 15, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
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