Someone Other Than Brock Lesnar Could Hold UFC Heavyweight Title in 2010
by Kid Nate on Dec 14, 2009 6:56 PM EST
in MMA News
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E. Spencer Kyte over at Heavy.com has postulated that 2010 could be the year without a UFC title change:
Penn added his name to the list of seemingly unbeatable champions officially last night, and it’s possible that the two remaining title holders – light heavyweight champion Lyoto Machida and heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar – could conceivably add their names to this list by the end of next year.
...
Though Brock Lesnar is currently sidelined without a return date set, he has dominated his last two opponents to the point that some have called for the creation of a "medium heavyweight" division so the gargantuan athlete can’t simply out-size his competition....
While putting together marketable fights is a difficult task already, Joe Silva is now looking at three dominant champions who are seemingly without competition, making their future title fights a tough sell.
Leaving aside Lyoto Machida's tenuous hold on the title after barely squeaking by Shogun Rua at UFC 104, I nominate the heavyweight division as the division most likely to see a change.
My prediction is that Lesnar's illness will require the UFC to hold an interim championship before Lesnar is healthy enough to return.
If that happens, I'll look for the winner of UFC 110's Cain Velasquez vs Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira to face the winner of a yet to be scheduled Frank Mir vs Shane Carwin bout for that title.
And even if that doesn't happen, I'm going to be looking for a visibly diminished Brock Lesnar to come back slowed and significantly smaller. If that's the case, he'll have a very hard time holding his title against any of the top contenders.
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I agree
If he does come back he will be a shell of his former self. Which is obviously a shame because we will never know how good he could have been. And it will hurt the UFC’s bottom line.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Wow, you guys are like Miss Cleo or something. How do you know what’s gonna happen seven months from now?
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 14, 2009 8:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Fedor sent me a letter from the future.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
by MonkeyCHops on Dec 14, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Has he joined the UFC yet?
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 14, 2009 9:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s right I heard about that, cuts caused by the bear’s claws.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 14, 2009 9:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hell yeah
He was winning the fight, but it was a one-night tournament. The bear went on to lose to a killer whale that I just know Fedor could have beat.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
An interim title seems likely then. Anyone have any solid source on what his prognosis is for returning to the UFC is?
If he won’t be back in action until Fall, I could see a Cain-Mir fight for the interim belt in the spring before facing Brock. The Big Nog-Cain winner then would face maybe a JDS-Duffee winner for the next contender, so that the UFC wouldn’t eliminate all their contenders. Whomever it is or whatever happens this is horrible news for the UFC. Brock was really helping to catapult them into the public consciousness and was huge for their bottom line.
Man.
Duffee is so not ready for dos santos. Give him at least one actual fight in the ufc before saying he’s in title contention. if he does the same thing again on the other hand, immediate title shot just because
I meant to imply that fight would be later in the year so it would be after Duffee has had at least one more fight.
by John Nash on Dec 15, 2009 3:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Interim, schminterim
“Interim” titles are a bit of a farce. If Bock isn’t healthy enough to compete / defend come July, then strip him and make the #2 and #3 contenders (Mir / Carwin) scrap for it.
That said, I’m sure that Dana doesn’t want to go down the route of stripping Brock, though – it would certainly demoralise Brock, be bad for the Mir / Carwin and totally kill the fan anticipation of the impending rubber match… and accordingly send PPV and live gate numbers down the toilet.
Which of these two evils will Dana have to choose??
by VikingPhotography on Dec 14, 2009 7:05 PM EST reply actions
What if
They strip Brock, and then Mir ends up with the title and Brock with the interm?
THAT would be a match. Brock would be more motivated than ever, not demoralized, and anticipation for the match would be HUGE.
I know it’s a big “what if,” but it would be cool
That would be stupid...sorry.
Why give Brock the “fake” belt when he had earned the Real one?
Stripping someone because he acted like an ass and/or left the company is one thing but stripping someone ’cause of injury or sickness is totally different.
Dana doesn’t even have to think twice about it : Interim Belt, FTW.
The End.
"looking for a visibly diminished Brock Lesnar to come back slowed and significantly smaller"
That’s something people seem to be ignoring. Lesnar is a huge, muscular athlete. Not training for an extended period (especially an extended period eating hospital food) will cause him to lose muscle mass (and probably add fat) pretty quickly.
Unless Brock is ready to start training full out by February, I wouldn’t expect to see him fight at anything close to his old form this summer.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
eh u never know with this kind of condition they said brock was operating at like 60% or something when he fought frank which is most likely some dana bs but still it has been affecting him for about a year
if he truly recovers and is at 100% which if he doesnt need surgery will be much quicker but probably wont happen till at least june or july he could come back the dominating fighter we’ve seen before but we really have no idea what to expect till then
Frank Mir
I think Frank Mir is a man on a mission and the longer Brock is out the better Mir gets. He’s adding muscle and he’s already the best jits guy of the HW’s not named Noguira. I think the UFC should have signed Bobby Lashley. He’s a prototype of Brock Lesnar and would add some excitement to the HW division while Brock is out. Take away Lesnar and the HW’s are boring. Mir will get better and if Lesnar is out too long Mir will clean out the HW division in my opinion.
I think Fedor has some of the best sub. in the HW division.
Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit.
Yes, and Thiago Alves has some of the best striking in the WW division.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)
by ufc4 on Dec 14, 2009 8:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Don’t forget Pudz’ leg kicks.
"Mindwarp earthlings seek to change our path" - Nick Blinko
by Skoobs on Dec 14, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And Roger Federer has a great backhand.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Dude, we're talking about SPORTS figures that have nothing to do with the UFC heavyweight division.
Try to stay on topic.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Lashley's too green for the UFC
Strikeforce does a good job of building guys up & grooming contenders. The UFC would give him 1 showcase match against someone like Christian Wellisch and would then claim he’s ready to fight Brock (yes, an exaggeration, but not far from the truth)
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Dec 14, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, because Brock was so seasoned when he joined the UFC.
:-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If Brock can’t defend his title then his belt needs to be vacated and we need to see active heavyweights going for it.
Then Lesnar can come back and boost buy rates and also win his title back, instead of just waiting for his miracle return with no growth in between.
uhh no.
Stripping someone of the Title ’cause of Injury and/or sickness is NEVER the smart way to go about doing things, especially in this business. And the key word is business.
If Dana strips Brock, he runs the very high risk of upsetting his cash cow and might actually ‘cause him to say "F YOU. I’M OUTTA HERE" and there goes at least 1 million plus in the buyrate down the toilet…
There’s no freakin way that Dana will do anything to cause Brock to leave. Brock will remain Champion, interim belt tournament or not.
Well, everybody needs to get over the whole stripping/vacating of the HW belt. Dana already said he wouldn’t do that and he wasn’t even keen on doing an interim after just unifying it. Though I’m sure if he won’t be back by summer, they will go the interim route.
I don’t know that Brock will come back weaker and stronger though. He might not be back to his full potential, but I’m sure he will give himself enough time in camp to get back to where he at least was. He naturally walks around just under 300 and has for a long time and cuts to 265, so the weight will probably come back easier than if he was just putting on weight recently.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
Rushing Lesnar back
He should not be rushed back and should take as much time as he needs to recover.
I have said before that he needs to be 150% to fight after this much time off, with the illness he has had.
I’d be shocked if he fought in Boston.
interim belts dont count for anything IMO, and I’m not so sure I’d rush to guess Lesnar will be so diminished. Time off can also help people break bad habits.
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
Not if
they’re not training. Which Brock isn’t, right now
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Dec 14, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
No, precisely if they are not training. It’s easier to break bad habits when you take a little time off and dont keep repeating them every day.
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
It's not as though any of these things have a resale value...
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
three dominant champtions?
While putting together marketable fights is a difficult task already, Joe Silva is now looking at three dominant champions who are seemingly without competition, making their future title fights a tough sell.
The only UFC champion with competition in his weight class is Lyoto Machida, and nobody would have even admitted that before the Shogun fight. BJ/GSP/Silva/Brock are completely dominant, and Brock is the most questionable of those four… and that’s only because he hasn’t had as many fights as the others to demonstrate whether or not he can clean out his division.
by mma_critic on Dec 14, 2009 7:52 PM EST reply actions
There are still questions to be answered about Brock.
We know about all there is to know on the skill sets of BJ/GSP/Anderson with the possible exception of how GSP fights off his back for more than 20 seconds. Brock hasn’t faced a great striker, his chin is hardly tested, we don’t know how his gas tank will be in a 5 rounder (breathin’ heavy vs. Couture), and no matter how quickly he improves he does not have much cage experience. Not hatin’ by any means, I leap to his defense more often than not, but there are plenty of things we’ve never seen from him. He might turn out to have a chin like Cabbage, skin like BJ, and improved his cardio to GSP levels. We just don’t know, and I can’t call him a dominant anything until we see more.
Brock was breathing no heavier against Couture than Penn was between rounds against Sanchez. Lesnars cardio has not been a problem. Just watch him train.
Brock was breathing no heavier against Couture than Penn was between rounds against Sanchez.
I disagree.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Dec 14, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Me too.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
We really don’t know, and watching him train, unless you watch entire training sessions in real time, doesn’t really tell me much.
I confess I don’t like Brock much, but I really don’t see him as a dominant champion yet. I suppose that’s me. He’s had some convincing fights, but he’s certainly not in the same class as GSP/Silva/Penn.
If he fought and destroyed Carwin I’d be closer to that conclusion (that he’s dominant) but we haven’t seen a lot from the guy yet. How does he do against a guy who’s strength and wrestling compare to his. How does he do against Mir when Mir is strong enough to not get tossed like a ragdoll?
and as we saw
in Machida vs Rua, or Faber vs Brown, or Brown vs Aldo, or GSP vs Serra 1, even the most seemingly dominant champ can be surprised and sometimes even swept aside by a new king.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Dec 14, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Serra didn’t exactly become the new king.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
Yes he did.
The king of my heart.
Also, the king of Prussia. Or rather the mayor of King of Prussia.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Serra was The King in Prussia. Don’t want to piss off the Austrians too much.
Keep firing Assholes!
Fedor has accomplished nothing until he fights Kimbo.
Maybe he signed autographs at King of Prussia Mall in Pennsylvania....
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
I’m not convinced 145lbs has seen a dominant champ like the other UFC weight classes, and I think Faber-Brown-Aldo illustrates that. Faber has come the closest to really dominating the class, but it’s still not clear if he was that good or if his competition wasn’t up to the same level as Brown/Aldo.
As for GSP-Serra I, I think GSP has proven he was unfocused for that fight given the rematch and subsequent performances. Honestly, of all the dominant champions, I’m most impressed with GSP because he beats fighters at their strengths instead of finding their weaknesses (eg. BJ on the ground, Kos with wrestling, etc).
Machida… he was exposed by Rua, which is why I singled him out as not being so dominant, at least so far.
I’m very interested to see how Brock comes back. Much as I hate his personality, I love watching him fight.
by mma_critic on Dec 14, 2009 8:18 PM EST reply actions
what if...
Frank Mir trolls shane carwin (which i think would definitely happen)… Big Nog beats cain…. frank beats nog showing he really is the man and gets the interum title…. then brock comes back frank mir beats him… I think i’d retire at that point.
When I ponder what it means to be the champion...
I can’t say the UFC HW division has one at the moment. To me, and this is only me, it means the person is at the top of the heap at this given point in time, and Brock Lesnar—as much it’s unfair to say so—isn’t the top of the heap and won’t be for some time. Again, it’s not his fault, as he hasn’t lost his title.
It’s such a strange situation, but I liken it to when Mir lost the title. I couldn’t convince myself the UFC had a true champion until Mir and Lesnar fought for the second time. Don’t know how the fuck I feel about interim titles.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
The top of the heap hasn’t yet come to the UFC.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
lol, yeah I know
I’m talking strictly about what’s in the UFC though.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Dec 14, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
“And even if that doesn’t happen, I’m going to be looking for a visibly diminished Brock Lesnar to come back slowed and significantly smaller.”
I don’t think they cut THAT much out of his intestine…
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
It makes me laugh...
So many people are trying to find that one fighter to destroy Brock Lesnar. Frank Mir beat Brock in the first match, then people started saying that Brock wasn’t fit for MMA. Then Brock comes back and man handles a seasoned veteran in Heath Hearring; Goes out and stops Couture, and then avenges his lone loss and completely DESTROYED Frank Mir. When Brock faced Mir in the second match, Mir was in the best shape of his life. He was 245lbs, ripped, his boxing was great, and what happened? He still got dominated….and out of all things… by a HALF NELSON?
When Brock faced Couture; Randy was able to get up and scramble from being under Brock. Now, if Randy was smaller (225lbs) than Mir and was still able to get up from Brocks top position…what does that tell you…it’s not about the size…it’s about the skill! Couture’s WRESTLING is was got him back up to his feet. With Mir adding this muscle and bulking up he thinks it’s going to help him. Wrestlers know how to use their weight!!!
Let me share my opinion & analysis on the outcome of the following fights against Lesnar:
Lesnar vs. Carwin – Lesnar would take Carwin down, and ground n pound him into submission! Guaranteed! Carwin has power, but Brock isn’t stupid enough to fight into someone’s strength. He’ll take him to the ground and pound!
Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez – Same as Carwin!
Lesnar vs. Noguera – Stand up fight, and Brock will send Noguera to the mat with a right cross, and then stand over him and pound him into submission!
Lesnar vs. Mir III (WHICH I HOPE HAPPENS) – same outcome as the 2nd fight, but this time….it will be much, much worse!
Lesnar will be a shell of himself?! LOL!!! I guess you guys haven’t been following Brock Lesnar. Let me remind you all that the Dr.‘s had said that Lesnar was only able to train and compete at 60%, with a hole in his intestines. After he rehabs, he’s going to train harder than ever, and be faster than before, stronger than before, and more fit than he was prior to the surgery.
I qoute Dana on this one: “Could you imagine what this guy is going to do fighting at 100%? That’s pretty F*&^$&^ scary”…
Lesnar has a great camp, and just as they made the perfect gameplan against Mir in the second fight, they will get Brock ready for any threat. Why do I admire Brock so much? Cause his camp gives him the gameplan, and he follows it to a T! That’s a smart fighter…
You honestly come off as a crazy kid when you write like that. Calm down.
Regardless:
“avenges his lone loss”
His lone loss? You make it sound like he has some extensive career with one tiny blemish. That loss, prior to avenging it, constituted 25% of his fights. It’s still 20% of his total fights. Brock is still very untested. Chill.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
calm down?
Buddy, this is a public site where people can express their own opinions freely. So don’t tell me to calm down, and that I’m coming off as a crazy kid…..moron!
Anyway….as a matter of fact, I’m not the only one to qoute “Avenge his lone loss” Dana said it, Joe Rogan, and Goldberg also. So, it’s not like I’m the only one saying that. And although his career is extensive as you say, he has fought 3 of the top HW’s in the UFC when he fought them. Hearring has an “Extensive Career” and tons of experience, and Brock almost took his head off with that overhand right. Aside from that, he completely dominated him on the ground. People say that was a boring fight. That was the gameplan! Listen to interviews from his camp!
Then he beats Couture, who still at 125 years old is still pumping out wins. He, might I add, completely dominated all 6ft8 of Tim Sylvia for that title, and defended it against a dangerous fighter in Gonzaga, who almost KO’d Carwin. In fact, the last fight in which Couture was TKO’d prior to Lesnar was in 2006 against Liddell.
Than, he comes back and avenges his LONE LOSS! For any other fighter, that first one could have crushed him. He received a lot, and I mean A LOT of criticism after his loss. But he came back, and not only adjusted, he followed the gameplan, and beat “The Most dangerous BJJ HW Not named Noguera”, Frank Mir on the ground! Maybe some people missed it, but you can see Mir attempt a few submissions on the ground before getting caught in the “Half Nelson” and Lesnar transitioned well to thwarp those attempts. Then, he pummeled Mir’s face in. All this while fighting with a hole in his intestines.
Brock’s record is a short one at 4 – 1. But 3 of those 4 wins came against a formidable veteran in Hearring. A hall of famer in Couture. And a world class BJJ fighter, and a top HW in Mir. Brock’s career may be a short one cause of his late start, but at the rate that he’s gone (And still the potential to get even better) there’s no telling what Lesnar can’t accomplish. His career might finish at 8 or 9 -1. Not a lot of fights, but perhaps the most dominating wins in UFC’s HW history.
I’m looking at the long run. It’s possible. Especially is Brock comes back at 100%
Carwin almost got KO’d by Gonzaga, but instead of Gonzaga going in to finish, he stood by and let Carwin regroup for a few second and left his hands down. If not for that mistake, Gonzaga would be in talks for a title shot. And aside from Gonzaga, who the hell has Carwin faced? No body’s! So you can say that Carwin is still untested too. I’m sure that Cain Velasquez could beat him!
Cain Velasquez is a great fighter with an awesome wrestling pedigree. I think he could beat Carwin, and I’m going to go out on the limb and say that he can beat Frank Mir too! But he’s too small for Brock Lesnar and he’d get smothered.
Big Nog has great boxing, and better BJJ than Mir. But his body has taken a lot wear and tear, though he looked great against Couture. I say rematch between Mir and a healthy Big Nog!
Frank Mir? Sure he’s gotten better. I’ll give him credit. His boxing is getting better, and his subs have always been dangerous…..but he is not a wrestler, nor does he have a solid wrestling background. That led to his doomise against Lesnar. Lesnar will take him down with the double, and then smother and pound him! You’ll see….
BTW: There’s lot’s of talk about Carwin…but you guys have forgotten about Junior Dos Santos, who’s another big fight away from really blowing up into super stardom! Junior Dos Santos is much more dangerous, IMO (Again, a public site where an opinion can be expressed!) than Carwin!
by JAFOrlando26 on Dec 15, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Or soon will.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Why do I get the feeling this is Brock from his hospital bed laptop?
"Death, so called, is a thing which makes men weep, And yet a third of life is passed in sleep."
- Lord Byron
by MyFightWiffaCheeto on Dec 15, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Nah
Brock would get halfway through this, get pissed and tear the door off his room.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Actually
I’m Brock’s brother…..Brock is in the back watching his 2nd fight with Frank Mir and laughing while holding the golden horse shoe…
by JAFOrlando26 on Dec 15, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Dude
Who are you even arguing with? You’ve got responses to points that nobody’s making.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
I know, right?
And people think I’M crazy.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Shogun will Champ before Brock loses
and I also worry about the amount of muscle mass lesnar will lose due to his illness……….
Brock's ilness
His sick time will adversely affect his growth as a mixed martial artist. It’s probably not as bad as Mir’s motorcycle accident but its comparable in a way. It took Mir nearly four years to put his career back on track. Brock isn’t old by any means but the longer it takes to recover from this illness the more his time in MMA will be shortened.
by KahilBS_Marshal on Dec 15, 2009 3:14 PM EST reply actions
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