Gambling Spotlight: UFC 107

The Bad Beat Express hit me pretty hard when Jon Jones tried to surgically remove Matt Hamill's eyes from his face last week at the Ultimate Fighter 10 Finale. A happy trigger finger on the "Confirm" button added a couple additional units to the play (that I wasn't thrilled about, but wasn't exactly sweating), making the swing sting that much worse.
It's always disappointing to be on losing end of these sorts of things, but take solace: Jones's performance qualified a bet at even the worst odds you might have been stuck with.
That being said, let's try to right the ship at UFC 107
|
B.J. Penn #1 Lightweight |
vs. |
Diego Sanchez #7 Lightweight |
| -280 (Bodog) | Best Line | +250 (5Dimes) |
| 30 | Age | 27 |
| 5'9" | Height | 5'10" |
| 14 - 5 - 1 | Record | 21 - 2 - 0 |
| 5 / 6 | TKO / SUB | 6 / 9 |
| B.J. Penn MMA | Camp | The Arena |
| W - Florian (SUB) L - St. Pierre (TKO) W - Sherk (TKO) |
Last 3 | W - Guida (SD) W - Stevenson (UD) W - Fioravanti (TKO) |
B.J. Penn is severely undervalued. Take a look at the best closing Penn lines since his fight with Jen Pulver: -330 vs. Pulver, -280 vs. Stevenson, -221 vs. Sherk, -230 vs. Florian. Penn didn't just beat those four guys; he dominated each fight bell-to-bell.
It would be redundant to fondle Penn's junk in print. We all know what he brings to the table: a preternatural sense for jiu jitsu, one of the top boxing games in all of MMA, a chin that Arlovksi would die for, and skin that would make Fedor superhuman.
But I do want to highlight one part of Penn's skill set (and take a stab at Mike Goldberg at the same time). Penn not only has great hands, but he has fantastic striking defense. Unlike what a certain UFC play-by-play man will say, good head movement does not involve tossing your head about willy-nilly two steps out of striking range. Effective head movement should be so subtle as to go unnoticed to all but the most careful of viewers. Penn utilizes his whole body to move just fractions of an inch away from incoming blows, giving him the balance and control to unload a counter combination in return.
Kenny Florian had it right in his prediction on D.C. radio. B.J. Penn does everything that Sanchez does, but better. I cannot envision a scenario in which Diego finishes B.J. - Penn has an iron chin if his defense were to be penetrated, and the idea of him being submitted by anyone at 155 must be laughed off, which puts him at a severe disadvantage in a five round fight.
Sanchez's lone advantage will be in the cardio department, which isn't enough to carry you to victory and will probably be overstated by fans and pundits alike. Penn may still visibly tire as the fight wears on, but watch his fights at lightweight and tell me he isn't as effective in round four with Kenny Florian as he was in the opening period. Sanchez will come out like a bat out of hell, but he doesn't keep that pace going throughout the fight.
Penn is as dominant at 155 as Fedor at heavyweight, Anderson at 185, and GSP at 170. For whatever reason, the linesmakers don't seem to grasp that (and apparently the betting public hasn't either, the line hasn't moved as far as I would expect). So, unload as much as you can tolerably risk. Stick him in parlays. Take the KO or submission props over at Bookmaker. If there's a bet to be had and Penn is involved, hand over you money.
SBN coverage of UFC 107: Penn vs. Sanchez
|
Frank Mir #4 Heavyweight |
vs. |
Cheick Kongo #17 Heavyweight |
| -190 (5Dimes) | Best Line | +190 (Bodog) |
| 30 | Age | 34 |
| 6'3" | Height | 6'4" |
| 12 - 4 - 0 | Record | 14 - 5 -1 |
| 2 / 7 | TKO / SUB | 9 / 2 |
| Team Sityodtong | Camp | Wolfslair MMA |
| L - Lesnar (TKO) W - Nogueira (TKO) W - Lesnar (SUB) |
Last 3 | L - Velasquez (UD) W - Hardonk (TKO) W - Al Turk (TKO) |
I have a favor to ask the Bloody Elbow nation. Please bring me the head of any soul who refers to this fight as a "classic striker vs. grappler matchup". Regardless of the level of truth behind the statement, it's one of the most boring and tired cliches in MMA, and a sign of lazy journalism.
With that out of the way, this is your classic striker vs. grappler matchup in its purest form (no, it isn't). This fight will hinge on one aspect: Mir's ability to drag the fight to the floor. And I'm not so sure he can do it with any regularity.
Kongo's takedown defense is getting unfairly criticized for the Velasquez fight. You'll never mistake him for a B.J. Penn, but using a fight against an elite wrestler and a short training camp as a frame of reference is a mistake here.
Now, if it does hit the floor, Mir will submit Kongo more times than not as long as he can obtain dominant position. But Mir doesn't have the strongest shot in the world, and that ability will diminish the longer the fight goes with Kongo peppering Mir with leg kicks.
I don't believe Mir for a second that he's willing to stand with Kongo, but if he does, he'll get smashed. His striking, simply stated, is not good. He stands straight up, his form is stiff and awkward, and he doesn't move particularly well. A kickboxing match featuring Kongo and Mir would see Mir getting stifled at range for fifteen minutes.
All told, I like a unit on Kongo here. My thoughts on Mir aside, this kind of fight will always favor the grappler barring some supreme ability in a secondary skill. I have a lot of issues with Mir's ability to take this to the floor, and if Kongo starts to tee off on Frank, he may shut down and call it a night.
|
Kenny Florian #4 Lightweight |
vs. |
Clay Guida #18 Lightweight |
| -205 (Bodog) | Best Line | +180 (5Dimes) |
| 33 | Age | 28 |
| 5'10" | Height | 5'7" |
| 15 - 4 - 0 | Record | 25 - 10 - 0 |
| 3 / 7 | TKO / SUB | 4 / 12 |
| Tri-Star Gym | Camp | Jackson's Submission Fighting |
| L - Penn (SUB) W - Stevenson (SUB) W - Huerta (UD) |
Last 3 | L - Sanchez (SD) W - Diaz (SD) W - Danzig (UD) |
If I were managing your typical UFC lightweight, the last guy I would want my fighter to fight is Clay Guida. Even when you win, you lose, as you often win in very ugly fashion. Throw in Guida's relentless wrestling game and a fifteen minute fight, and you have the recipe to be beaten by a guy that might not have the same dynamic skill set you possess.
Which is exactly the position Kenny Florian finds himself in. He assuredly has a more varied attack, but it will be for naught if he can't stop Guida from taking him down. That being said, Kenny's a very smart fighter. He and his camp know, even with Guida's time with Greg Jackson, that Clay's going to try to push the pace and smother Kenny on the floor. I expect Team Florian will come in with a plan to create distance, avoid the fence, and pick Guida apart on the feet.
I'm staying away from this fight, though (not completely, though). If Kenny can't finish the fight, you're looking at a very high variance decision given Clay's go-forward smother style. I think the current line accounts for this pretty well.
I did however take Florian to win by KO, TKO, or DQ at +400 on Bookmaker. I feel a bit square taking it, but I feel Kenny's propensity for the elbow and Guida's propensity to get hit may lead to bad consequences.
75 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Thoughts
Jon Fitch and Matt Wiman are the safest bets on this card.
Start all parlays from there.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I'm REALLY, REAAAAAAALLY liking Grant on this show for a bit
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 11, 2009 1:12 PM EST reply actions
Awkward
“Please bring me the head of any soul who refers to this fight as a “classic striker vs. grappler matchup”. Regardless of the level of truth behind the statement, it’s one of the most boring and tired cliches in MMA, and a sign of lazy journalism."
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/12/11/1191085/ufc-107-preview-frank-mir-cheick
LOL
it’s hard to avoid powerful cliche’s :X as much as I think Diego has no chance, I think betting the house on BJ is a little wreckless. at those odds though, can sort of understand.
Visit my new blog at http://mmacesspool.wordpress.com/
by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 11, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I saw that right after I posted it. :)
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Can't Argue
Can’t argue with your Kongo pick there. I personally like a Struve pick with everything Buentello is going through at AKA.
MMAMoneyLine
Yeah...
it’s no secret that I’m a big Struve fan. So all the drama with Paul is making me feel a little more secure in my boy
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 11, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
when has sanchez’s chin been tested by someone with striking as good as BJ’s?
Visit my new blog at http://mmacesspool.wordpress.com/
by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 11, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
When has BJ shown this amazing KO power?
Koscheck hits harder than Penn, and Sanchez was never even wobbled by him.
Harder doesn’t mean better. Knowing where and how to hit a guy makes your striking WAY more effective that just being able to hit harder.
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
So that should be reflected by a litany of KOs from Penn, correct?
by Hardcharger on Dec 11, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup, outpointed him with his jab for 3 rounds. Frankie Edgar similarly outpointed Sherk for 3 rounds.
And then completely smashed him with a flying knee to end the fight. You’re leaving that part out.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
TKO = KO
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 11, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
He also destroyed Din Thomas and Caol Uno with strikes?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
guess you can't read
I said better not harder….evans probably has near top KO power at LHW but was knocked out by machida…timing and placement often mean more than power, and I hope you’re not saying koscheck has better striking than penn.. and zomg was i defended with 2 posts?! this is a first
Visit my new blog at http://mmacesspool.wordpress.com/
by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 11, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Seems you need the reading comprehension lesson. Koscheck hits harder. He’s got more KOs to his track record.
Penn has very good boxing, but he’s not a good bet to KO people.
penn has several
devastating knockouts to his record, and several submissions that come as a direct result of rocking his opponent with strikes. do you have any idea wtf you’re talking about?
Visit my new blog at http://mmacesspool.wordpress.com/
by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 11, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously you do not. Please list all these devastating KOs to his record. And BTW, if you want to bet money on Penn by KO, you won’t win if the fight finishes by sub. Perhaps you’d be best serve placing your money in that dept. Hope this helps.
+1
Ah yes, Penn’s one and only knockout. To BJ Penn true believers, that knockout incontrovertibly proved that a “focused” Penn could knock anyone out at any time in whatever fashion he pleased.
Also good point about Kos hitting far harder than Penn. Penn has virtually no chance of knocking Diego out.
by The Darkness on Dec 11, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry I should add that that was Penn’s one and only knockout via his hands (which is the point since this is a debate over who “hits” harder, not who has better knees).
by The Darkness on Dec 11, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
A) I think you greatly underrate BJ’s striking power.
B) I think (and I may be wrong) that Fagan is saying bet on BJ, and also take the bets on the fight finishing by KO and the fight finishing by sub. You’ll lose one of them but win the other, you’re probably coming out +
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 11, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. It was partly hyperbole on how retarded the line is right now, but yeah.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
glad you guys shut this fool up for me :D
Visit my new blog at http://mmacesspool.wordpress.com/
by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 11, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, what the hell are you talking about? Your original question was “I’d like to know the rationale for betting Penn by KO.” People are explaining this to you, and you’re all over the board with “KO power” and “Kos hits harder” talk. Penn has shown the ability to hit hard and land a lot of shots. He has TKO’s on his record over good guys. THATS THE RATIONALE.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
KO and TKO are different, AFAIK. If you get to encompass TKO and KO together with a single wager, then it would make sense. If KO is it’s own bet, then it doesn’t make sense. I’m sorry you have trouble grasping the point.
The rest of your post displays a shocking inability to follow simple logic backed up by actual results of guys with KOs, guys without.
“My “shocking inability to follow simple logic” is explained in the first part of your post. As Brent explained above, KO=TKO for betting purposes. You’re trying to argue the difference between them, we’re all saying that they’re the same damn thing.
I can’t believe it took you that long to catch onto that. I’m not having trouble grasping anything. You were making a completely meaningless argument.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
You never once stated they were the same thing. In reality, they aren’t, that’s why I made the question about distinction.
There’s better bets out there than Penn by KO, given his and Diego’s history. But if you think losing your money is meaningless, that wouldn’t be surprising.
you didnt make a question
you said straight up you dont understand why someone would take BJ by KO.
Visit my new blog at http://mmacesspool.wordpress.com/
by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 11, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
saying "i dont get why you would do this"
isn’t a question, jackass. you thought KO and TKO were different in betting terms; they’re not, therefore you were wrong. seems pretty simple
Visit my new blog at http://mmacesspool.wordpress.com/
by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 11, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
I figured that if you were asking a question about MMA betting, you might have understand the basic concepts of it. My mistake. Plus, Brent helpfully pointed it out above.
And you know nothing about me or my betting history, so I’m not sure why you’re contining with the petty insults.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
KO and TKO are different, AFAIK. If you get to encompass TKO and KO together with a single wager
I have never seen a wager anywhere that differentiated between KO and TKO. You are arguing to a point that doesn’t exist in the real world.
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
But you might also point out that Diego has far fewer staphylococcus aureus bacteria residing in him. It’s “sick” how many hard shots Diego was able to take from Kos without blinking.
by The Darkness on Dec 11, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
If I were managing your typical UFC lightweight, the last guy I would want my fighter to fight is Clay Guida. Even when you win, you lose, as you often win in very ugly fashion. Throw in Guida’s relentless wrestling game and a fifteen minute fight, and you have the recipe to be beaten by a guy that might not have the same dynamic skill set you possess.
Perfect Analysis.
I’m hoping Florian can pull out a 3rd round RNC, or cut Guida’s face open from the bottom. Trying to end a fight via cut is kinda dirty, but you do what you need to do to win, and Florian has a really good chance of landing a sharp elbox from the bottom. If he can catch Clay right on the eyebrow, TKO.
If Guida is going to employ his winning ugly strategy than I don’t see how Kenny using elbows in an attempt to open up a fight stopping cut is dirty at all.
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
I don't think it's a good strategy at all though.
Diego vs. Clay is one of the bloodiest fights in recent memory, with all the blood coming out of Guida’s head. His chin, pace, heart, and determination make him seem unstoppable, even when cut up something fierce. I think Kenny needs to stick and move to a decision, but I don’t know how anyone does that against Guida. As Mike said, there are no pretty fights against the Carpenter.
Spot on,
I think BJ is the #4 p4p fighter in the world. People were so quick to throw Machida up there but BJ is still ahead of him I believe. He is a true LW you can tell by the way his body looks when he fights WW. A guy like Anderson Silva for example doesn’t look fat like BJ when he moves up in weight. Despite the size disadvantage BJ has not just won at WW, but beaten the best ( at the time )
by xbuckeyex05 on Dec 11, 2009 1:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Wow, thanks Fagan
For calling me lazy.
I think it is a classic grappler vs. striker matchup.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
you'll note that Fagan
used the classic striker vs grappler construction as well. I think he was making fun of himself as well.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Im thinkinf of playing a parlay
Penn,Fitch,Kongo< what do you guys think? Any other advice?
J mackin Roe 623
to be honest idk about having kongo in the parlay, hes too much of an If.throw guida on there maybe heh
Visit my new blog at http://mmacesspool.wordpress.com/
by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 11, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
This is a great parlay card
Take a look at what $20 on a Penn-Florian-Mir-Fitch-Struve-Gouveia-Wiman parlay will make you.
and boy will you be hating Clay Guida
after he lays and prays his way to a unanimous decision win. Buentello could very well play some chin music on Struve as well.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
And even though Ill probably be making a play on Gouveia, I wouldn’t include him in a large parlay unless he was the only leg I was worried about (e.g. Penn-Fitch-Gouveia).
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
Thx guys! I’m pretty nervous about the Kongo fight since I’ve always lost my parlays due to one fight. Here’s to hoping it doesnt happen again
J mackin Roe 623
Parlays can be a great tool but to be honest unless you have a pretty good grasp of picking fights I would stay away from parlays and just make straight bets.
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
Humm
Been itching to reclaim my password for awhile so I can post. Finally did it (feasting across the forum, I’m sure) so I could say that I enjoyed Fagan’s article today much more than both of Leland’s. I’m not biased (or, wasn’t before), but his was more concise, had more depth, and was written with better craft. I thought the other’s were banal, recycled angles written too wordily. Maybe I’m being harsh but the disparity in quality between the two writers is pretty glaring! Step it up Rolling! Enjoyed this read, though, Fagan, here’s her head…
Incorrect
I never believed that so many BJ Penn fanatics (in the religious sense of the word) still existed after the GSP fight but apparently they still exist and for the most part appear to reside on the editorial staffs of all of the MMA sites that I read. (I can list BJ’s skills and accomplishments as well as the most rabid BJ Penn fan, and I’ll still never understand why people hold him in such (unjustifiable) high regard. E.g., there was an article by someone here claiming BJ may be the GOAT.)
Your article, I would say, borders on being irresponsible. You should at least acknowledge that you are a die hard BJ Penn enthusiast and too biased to provide anything approaching an objective analysis before giving betting advice. (If you were giving this advice regarding securities, we could probably sue you.) In any event, that is neither here nor there and people should no better than to base a bet on advice that is analytically bankrupt on its face. (For good advice I would read Performify and I say this even though he’s putting money on Penn.)
You write, "Sanchez’s lone advantage will be in the cardio department, which isn’t enough to carry you to victory and will probably be overstated by fans and pundits alike. "
I disagree and think there is at least more than one area where DS has an advantage.
You could argue that Sanchez has a better chin than Penn does. Diego (while sick with a staph infection) took Kos’s best shots on the button and didn’t blink. I don’t think (because of the defense you so lovingly detailed) has ever hit BJ that hard. Machida certainly didn’t. GSP busted his nose, but that was with a left hand superman punch and you don’t need to have Rocky’s chin to keep from crumping to the mat after eating what amounts to a super powered jab.
I also would likely give Diego an advantage in the clinch. He more than held his own against Fitch and kept Fitch pressed up against the cage (and took him down) in the first round (and then Fitch started wrestling). It’s also possible, and hardly inconceivable, that Diego could grind out a decision a la couture by simply pressing BJ against the fence and kneeing his legs into oblivion. I’m not sure how BJ would stop that. (He allowed KFlo to keep him pinned against the cage (albeit to little effect) in their fight.) I don’t think DS will opt for that strategy however, simply because it really is almost shamefully boring.
Diego is also excellent in “scrambles”. In the Gomi fight, Penn twice wound up on his back against Gomi from scrambles. This sort of ability is difficult to quantify and assess; nevertheless, Diego seems to have the edge here.
BJ’s take down defense is amazing but may be a tad overrated, primarily because people seem to in part god like qualities to it. He has phenomenal balance and is extremely flexible which makes single leg take downs very difficult to finish. However GSP had a lot of success with the safest, most difficult to finish (in MMA) take downs around — a single leg take down where you grab your opponents leg and don’t lift but rather try to power through or trip your opponent. That single leg take down is perhaps the easiest take down to defend against (and this more than anything else accounts for Penn’s ability to keep the fight standing against GSP in the first round). If Diego is smart he should be able to have some success taking Penn down with modified high crotch take downs where instead of switching to the double he lifts and slams Penn after securing Penn’s leg (something which is very easy to do when you’re against the cage with Penn because of how he defends against knees). Diego was able to use this takedown successfully in the first round against Fitch, who was doing his best to defend the take down but was ultimately unsuccessful (even though Fitch probably outweighed diego by 10 to 15 lbs). If he can take down a much larger, stronger fighter, who’s also a good wrestler, I’m predicting he can take BJ down at least once or twice.
Finally, I don’t think that BJ ever has much of a game plan or scouts his opponents that thoroughly. I’m not sure if Diego does these days either now that he’s left Jackson’s camp but I’m guessing he’ll have more of a plan / scouting report than BJ will. In addition, BJ’s corner’s advice (which is embarrassing example of nepotism) is almost laughably inept. Their only advice ever seems to be “explode with the punches” and encouragement to be “you’re in shape to do this bro’”.
BJ has almost no chance of finishing this fight via TKO.
Diego is very tough and I can see him pulling this fight off via UD. At the current odds I would make a moderate sized play on Diego.
I fell asleep an hour into reading that post.
"My diet is like Atkins, but with the carbs." - BJ Penn
Reading must be hard for you . . .
only kidding. It is a long post. Fortunately there’s no requirement that you read everything here (that I’m aware of).
by The Darkness on Dec 11, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
wow
did you post the same exact 5 paragraph essay on mmamania and BE? if you believe diegos chin is better, you’re crazy….idk if it is or not (90% not) but it hasnt relle even been tested yet…
Visit my new blog at http://mmacesspool.wordpress.com/
by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 11, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
and i dont mean “YUS!” crazy. the bad kind
Visit my new blog at http://mmacesspool.wordpress.com/
by Hendo_One-Shot on Dec 11, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Man you put a lot of thought into that
How’d that work out for you?
BJ has almost no chance of finishing this fight via TKO.
LOL, good work.
The only thing Jon Jones does better than Matt Hamill is hear.
(And smash faces)

by 















