Will Fedor Emelianenko's Injury Create Opportunity for Brett Rogers?
by Leland Roling on Dec 1, 2009 10:50 AM EST
in MMA News
82 comments
Yesterday, our own Nick Thomas posted some interesting quotes coming from Strikeforce heavyweight puncher Brett Rogers regarding his stance on Fedor Emelianenko, Alistair Overeem, and his personal ranking of top heavyweights in the world. The buzz coming out of the interview from some areas of the MMA community comes back to the intense debate regarding Overeem's champion status within Strikeforce's heavyweight division, his exposure to the North American casual fanbase, and Rogers' status as being one hundred percent healthy while Fedor may be on the shelf for six months due to a hand injury.
On Alistair Overeem:
I want to fight soon, and I want to fight Alistar. I’m 100% healthy and took zero damage in the fight; so I’m ready to go right now. As I said Strikeforce is my home; I love Strikeforce and in my opinion Alistar holding the title belt is an insult to every fighter in this organization, every fan and to Scott Coker. Champions defend their titles. And either Scott strips him and real fighters battle for it; or I will take it off him the hard way.
The question that begs to be answered is whether or not Scott Coker will allow a fight like this to happen since Fedor will be out for quite awhile. A realist would look at this as an easy decision. Overeem is quite possibly the only heavyweight outside of the UFC that could give Fedor a run for his money due to his 25-30 pound size advantage and striking ability, and it could be speculated that Overeem could handle a lot of what the UFC has to offer as well. Why would they jeopardize such an epic showdown between the two men with a bout with Brett Rogers?
Furthermore, what if Brett Rogers somehow wins? Sure, we could hype up the rematch with a montage of Rogers' ground and pound punching coupled with Fedor's overhand right in slo-motion, but it won't have the same appeal as a bout with Overeem. Overeem could also get hurt punishing Rogers to a pulp, thus pushing the timetable even further back at a showdown with "The Last Emperor". The only real benefit is giving Overeem more exposure and using Rogers as a familiar face for casual fans to watch fight.
Rogers continues to try to create a little heat between himself and Overeem due to Overeem's inability to defend the title since November of 2007, but is anyone actually listening? Is that what's really going to create some hype between the two?
To be perfectly honest, I don't care. We could have a debate as to whether anyone should really care about the Strikeforce heavyweight belt for a number of days, but the fact of the matter is that hardcore fans who are actually actively interested in the fights want to see the match-ups rather than care about whether or not a belt is on the line. The belt's real purpose? Giving us two more rounds of added goodness in case it goes the distance. But hey, maybe that line of heckling will anger Overeem to the point that he invades a large U.S. city, and we have to call Godzilla to the rescue. I'll put money on Overeem via first round standing guillotine.
What's the more interesting match-up right now? Would you rather see Rogers-Overeem happen in early 2010 while Fedor is shelved till mid-year, or should Strikeforce wait for Fedor to heal and take on Overeem later in the year? From a business perspective, I'd think the latter is the best option.
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I wouldn’t mind it so much. I think there are some downsides obviously, but Fedor’s injury puts him on the shelf for so long… it might actually go through Coker’s mind to set this fight up.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 1, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
I thought Fedor’s camp came out and said he had neither a broken nose nor a broken hand and he would be out of training for six weeks?
I personally think Rogers can beat Overeem or at least be a very tough fight, no way Overeem runs through him. But they’ll give Rogers Werdum.
It's true.
You can also find evidence of this in the interview with Fedor from MMAMania. He says he just had a dislocated thumb and reopened cut.
Can’t we have both? Let’s say overeem beats Rogers, witch i see being more likely, Then that only makes the Fedor vs Overeem fight better.
Yes, it just depends if Coker is willing to risk it. To be honest, I think Overeem trounces Rogers, so I wouldn’t mind seeing that happen. It’s justifying the move that makes me think Coker won’t do it.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 1, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Why risk it?
Why not Rodgers vs Werdum and then Overeem vs Fedor?
I think this is ultimately what should happen, from a business perspective with the least amount of risk. I’d rather see Overeem fighting though.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 1, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
If they want Overeem some exposure it won't take but a few tricks
Put him on a Gina Carano card against someone like Pedro Rizzo that he can destroy. But then again, how do you justify Rizzo fighting the champ? You can’t. I guess just throw him in with Fedor as soon as possible, we all want to see it.
It’ll be interesting to see what Strikeforce does if AO wins the K-1 GP. I think a push as “The Kickboxing Champion of the World returns to defend his Strikeforce title against Fedor Emelianenko”; even if casuals don’t know K-1, Kickboxing Champion of the World sounds fucking awesome. And, it positions Fedor as “the Challenger” (even though we know he isn’t) which can provide some very unique advertising opportunites. Actually, I think some enterprising fellow around these parts could right an interesting piece on Fedor as Challenger….
BTW, that Melvin Manhoef pic looks like Waldo Geraldo Faldo after eating a bag of ’roids.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
What happens if Overeem decides to concentrate on kickboxing again?
What if FEG ponies up a massive contract for him to fight in K-1 over the summer?
What if Fedor’s injury keeps him out longer than expected?
If Strikeforce can get Overeem’s signature on a bout agreement for early next year, they would be fools to pass on the opportunity in hopes that the Fedor fight ever materializes.
by Steve4192 on Dec 1, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent post
I would also add that Strikeforce isn’t risking a lot with Overeem. Not many casual fans have a clue as to who he is, so if he loses to Rogers, who cares? It’s not like he’s a huge asset for them right at this moment.
Since Werdum is coming off a win and Rogers is coming off a loss, it seems a little strange to me to see Werdum vs Rogers. Of course, Rogers lost to the best Heavyweight on the planet, so there is no shame in that, but I would have thought that Rogers would fight Antonio Silva next. I really want to see Overeem vs Fedor though. Besides Fedor vs Werdum, Fedor vs Overeem, or a Fedor vs Barnett fight in Japan, there really aren’t many fights for Fedor outside of the UFC.
I’m all for Rogers versus Overeem.
Strikeforce can’t sacrifice the bird in hand for the potential bird in the bush. If Overeem is available early next year, they would be fools not to use him ASAP.
Who knows what Overeem’s schedule will look like in six months? He might flake out and spend another year to fighting in K-1 while smashing bums in MMA in his spare time. If they can sign him to a bout agreement, do it now before K-1 offers him more money to fight full time.
Agreed
Hardcores know Overeem and how awesom he is.
However most casual folks have no idea who he is. Get him in against Rogers and get him US exposure.
Win or lose it builds a star. Rogers or Overeem.
If the fight is EPIC, then it gives a push to both guys.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Overeem/Rogers doesn't matter..
Rogers just lost in a decisive fashion to Fedor, giving him a HW title match makes sense how? Overeem can find fights elsewhere, obviously, maybe get him some face time at the next few Strikeforce shows and play some sort of highlight reels for him.
Head Kick Legend
Twitter @HeadKickLegend
If Overeem can’t beat Rogers, then Overeem-Fedor doesn’t matter either. If he can’t beat Brett Rogers, he’s not going to beat Fedor anyway.
You can’t just put the guy on ice because you are afraid he might lose.
by Steve4192 on Dec 1, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I sincerely doubt Overeem would lose, but..
It is just an illogical fight. If Fedor can fight in May, possibly on CBS against the SF heavyweight champion why would you put that fight in jeopardy to have the HW champ against the guy who was creamed against Fedor?
I know it is commonplace in other promotions, but if they want to run Fedor on CBS again, and assuming their next CBS show is around when the other ones were, May or June, it just seems kind of close to have Overeem defend the belt against the loser in the CBS contest on a lesser show and the winner go on to the CBS show.
Even if Rogers does win, would they want to run the same exact main event on CBS after Rogers got destroyed? Sadly, at this point, they need to make business decisions, and Rogers/Fedor II as their next CBS show probably wouldn’t sell.
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by Dave Walsh on Dec 1, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Overeem/Rogers is no good
You don’t get a crack at the title after a loss. I can’t find a way to rationalize it.
Put these on a card:
Werdum vs Rogers
and
Bigfoot vs Arlovski
the only fight for overeem that people are truly interested in is Megareem vs Fedor. It’s been near impossible for coker to get him to come defend his title, and if he only has limited chances at doing it, I’d rather wait a tiny while longer to have him come fight Fedor than waste our one chance on a 1 minute rape of brett rogers.
I don’t know what his K-1 schedule looks like though, and I’d like to hear something more about Fedor’s inury…
Overeem is title holder in Name only
Fedor is the real title holder. So this whole shot at the title thing is a little ridiculous.
Completely agree
If they plan to promote Overeem as the SF HW champ there’s no way they can give Rogers a title shot coming off a loss.
by ufc4 on Dec 1, 2009 10:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s fine but doing it against a guy coming off a loss makes no sense.
by ufc4 on Dec 1, 2009 11:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It makes sense in Strikeforce’s situation. There are 2 “champions” running around, and I think it makes sense to treat Fedor as the real champion and act like Overeem’s belt is just a decoration.
He’s coming off a loss, but he’s still the highest ranked HW in the org not named Fedor. This fight is much more marketable than any other fight for Overeem but Fedor, and I honestly think that Rogers Fedor 2 is more marketable than anything else they can do with Fedor.
Rogers seems to be the only one in the SF HW division willing to promote himself, SF can either run with it, tell him to shutup, or get other people to start doing the same.
I see where you’re coming from about Rogers and his marketability, but I fear that it would be a huge setback for both SF and Brett to let Overeem bury him.
Or maybe i’m the only one who thinks that brett has no shot against the guy :)
You have to take risks when you’re making the matches.
If the outcome of every fight is known it isn’t exciting.
They need to make fights, if Fedor is out and Overeem wants to fight, this is a good matchup to make. They definitely get 1 really marketable fight for Fedor out of it, and it’s a marketable fight itself.
Sitting and waiting around for Fedor is not a good way to make money.
There’s safer fights around that are just as marketable I think.
Schedule Werdum/Overeem and Rogers/Bigfoot. That way you let Rogers hopefully rebound, Overeem gets some airtime crushing a guy, and Fedor is still waiting in the wings for either Rogers or Overeem.
Schedule Werdum/Overeem and Rogers/Bigfoot. That way you let Rogers hopefully rebound, Overeem gets some airtime crushing a guy
Wait … wat?
I think Werdum is a MUCH more dangerous opponent for Overeem than Rogers. Overeem has a solid ground game, but is nowhere near the level of Werdum’s ground game, and you can bet your ass Fabricio will be working to take the fight down to the ground. Rogers OTOH will play right into Overeem’s strength and try to stand & box against an an elite eight-point Muay Thai striker.
Also, let’s not forget that Overeem and Werdum have met in combat before, with Werdum walking away with a submission victory. I don’t care what kind of changes Overeem has made in his physique, he still got tooled last time he stepped in the ring with Werdum.
Who cares if Werdum wins, then we’re rid of a guy who probably wasn’t going to fight again in the states a second time in 2010 anyways?
My response was based on this statement.
There’s safer fights around
In no way, shape, or form is Werdum a ‘safe’ fight for Overeem. If anything, Rogers is the ‘safe’ fight and Wersum is the risky one.
if the outcome is known it isn't exciting?
so you haven’t seen fedor fight in years huh
Welcome to the Machida Error.
by slapjaw ackrite on Dec 2, 2009 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Sure, we could hype up the rematch with a montage of Rogers’ ground and pound punching coupled with Fedor’s overhand right in slo-motion, but it won’t have the same appeal as a bout with Overeem.
I think with his national tv exposure in what was one of the biggest heavyweight fights of the year, coupled with his willingness to give interviews, Rogers is actually more marketable and will draw more fans to an event than Overeem. Hardcore MMA fans may be salivating at the Overeem vs. Fedor matchup, but that might not be what everyone else wants to see.
by rzor on Dec 1, 2009 10:35 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think he will when Overeem comes back into the picture. Casual fans have this draw toward physically muscular guys like Overeem, and a tune-up fight in which he crushes someone would help him. Rogers has the personality though.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 1, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Rogers, Overeem, Fedor
Just make the call to strip Overeem of his championship, then have Fedor fight Fabricio Werdum for the vacant title.
Then, a month later, have Overeem return to fight Rogers.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
Did i miss some news on the Fedor hand injury? I thought it wasnt as bad as orignally thought and he would be ready by the spring?
The estimate is 4-6 months, but he’s stating it isn’t the case. So, Fedor vs. Overeem could happen in early 2010. If that’s the case, there isn’t a debate.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 1, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
“The estimate is 4-6 months, but he’s stating it isn’t the case”
Is Ed Soares managing Fedor now?
by ufc4 on Dec 1, 2009 11:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
LOL, yeah… not sure. Fanhouse reported two days later that Fedor stated he was fine, but will we ever really know? Probably not.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 1, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
From his MMA Mania interview
http://www.mmamania.com/2009/12/1/1181087/the-emperors-new-groove-an
Derek Bolender (MMAmania.com): There have been numerous reports about the injuries you sustained in the fight. How bad are the injuries to your hand and nose? What is the severity? Is either broken?
Fedor Emelianenko: No, nothing is broken. My thumb was dislocated and on my nose an old cut was opened again.
Derek Bolender (MMAmania.com): How long do you anticipate being out before you start to train again?
Fedor Emelianenko: I am already back in training but not so much. And next week I will go on a holiday.
Derek Bolender (MMAmania.com): Which month in 2010 will you be targeting for your next fight?
Fedor Emelianenko: I don’t know.
Problem is who says Overeem will even fight for SF ever again?
Its been 2 years, we all know he is on roids and thats why he wont fight in the US, thats why even though he is the SF HW champ he says he will fight Fedor in Dream.
Coker has no balls, he wants to keep the hope alive that they can make Fedor/Overeem for the HW title live on CBS, so if he strips him, Overeem will NEVER fight for SF again.
Problem is, how long do you wait? You can wait till the summer or whatever, Fedor comes back, what if he doesnt accept the fight? Then you have to strip him.
Right now all signs point to Fedor/Werdum as the next fight.
Clearly thats a joke of a fight, Werdum has no chance, Overeem and Josh Barnett are the only fighters outside the UFC that can challenge Fedor.
Right now SFs HW champ wont fight in there org anymore, he beat Rogers, and Werdum has no chance, he is a solid HW but JDS knocked him out.
I think a fight with Overeem would be great, he has size, speed, power and is a great kick boxer, great striker.
Thats the fight every hardcore MMA fan wants to see outside of Fedor/Brock. Thats teh biggest fight, but Brock cant strike like Overeem, but Brocks size and wrestling could control people.
I want to see Overeem/Fedor bang it out. But since Ubereem wont pass a piss test in the US he wont fight for SF.
Overeem seems to be a bigger liability to Strikeforce than anything. If they can’t get him to fight Fedor, I don’t know what they do. Rogers-Overeem would be a good fight, but then they risk damaging Rogers, who would probably be the underdog. Rogers is probably worth more to the company to Overeem, given that he’s gotten miles better with his interviews, has a good backstory, and nearly beat (OK, he didn’t, but they can say he did) the greatest heavyweight on earth.
Only thing to me that makes sense is Fedor-Overeem. Then once Fedor (hopefully) beats him, try to throw Rogers-Overeem. But I think the problem is that with Overeem its so difficult to get him to fight, I’d think they’d be lucky to even get one fight out of him, let alone two.
AO vs Rogers
is the HW equivalent of Houston Alexander vs Kimbo… and would be HUGE with casual fans.
The missing ingredient is fame.
Keep firing Assholes!
In Idaho, it's illegal to f--- a porcupine. You know why? Because someone tried it.
Im just talking about it being stylistically appealing to the prime time free show audience.
Gina has all the fame they would need haha.
What about the elephant with extremely good muscle definition in the room?
Keep firing Assholes!
In Idaho, it's illegal to f--- a porcupine. You know why? Because someone tried it.
by Ubernoober on Dec 1, 2009 11:37 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Let's not... for the love of God.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 1, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
i’d be interested to see if Werdum could beat that solid Rogers claims he has. I’d like to see Overeem blast through Brett as well. Overeem, if he can beat the drug test to fight here is one scary guy now….much has changed since Liddel beat him in Pride back in that GPrix tourney.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Dec 1, 2009 11:38 AM EST reply actions
much has changed since Liddel beat him in Pride back in that GPrix tourney.
How about since Sergei knocked him senseless and made him run away like a frightened little girl?
The only thing that has changed is Overeem’s physique and the level of his competition.
This is more or less my feeling as well. I’m not yet on the Overeem hype train. He’s gotten a lot bigger, and his striking has presumably improved (at least in the K-1 context), but I don’t see much evidence to suggest that he’s not fundamentally the same perennially underachieving fighter he was at LHW. He hasn’t even had a HW fight that was long enough to test his endurance yet.
by JRN on Dec 1, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with Leland
Godzilla v. Overeem would be epic.
Godzilla by submission. You heard it here first.
Godzilla has Gamma Ray breathe, not subs.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 1, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Although, I think I remember Godzilla having epic slams.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Dec 1, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
I like Coker at least offering Overeem a chance to defend his belt in early ‘10(the 10 thing is throwing me off). If Overeem is unable to do so, Coker should use that as a reason to strip him and then we don’t have to talk about him any more unless he is serious about fighting MMA in the States.
If Overeem refuses the fight, they’re are still guys to match Rodgers up with. Bigfoot is coming off a loss as well. Why not those two fight each other? Even if Rodgers wins, Strikeforce could still have Werdum fight Fedor next and set up a rematch for Rodgers further down the road.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
Could be bad either way!
AO not having an interest in fighting for Strikeforce is bad for the org either way. If they can’t lock him down to a time bound multi fight contract (with concessions to fight outside as long as there is no conflict) soon, they should strip him of the belt.
If they do manage to get the fight with Fedor and say the unthinkable happens and AO wins, then what? He may just run off and not come back for another year or so while fighting in K-1 or Japan and then Strikeforce is worse off than when they started.
They would have no top guy (best in the world) to promote and would have trouble getting any kind of numbers on an event. They have a lot of great fighters, but none of their other main carders could carry an event by themselves and have it generate any kind of ratings or be very profitable.
Strikeforce has got to make sure they have they always have a second contender in the wings. They can’t fall into the trap of having no one legitimate left. With that noted here’s my suggestion:
Fedor vs. Overeem obviously. If Fedor is out for awhile schedule
Overeem vs. Werdum for the title. It was supposed to happen in August so it was just rescheduled. Hopefully Overeem wins, but either way you are building up Fedor’s net opponent.
For your second contender schedule Arlovski vs. Bigfoot and Brett vs. Yvel or Tim Sylvia or Barnett and basically build up a contender by pairing off the other HWs in an 8 man tourney. So eventually Arlovski could fight Fedor again if he beat Bigfoot, Brett, and Josh, or Brett could get a rematch by beating Yvel, Bigfoot, and Werdum. Anyway you look at you’ve built up a legitimate contender to whomever has the belt at that time (Fedor).
By the time this second contender has gotten his title shot, end of 2010 early 2011, hopefully new blood has entered the picture: either a pickup from the UFC or one of the young guys (Ishii, Lashley, Roger Gracie, Cormier) has really shown something.
Anyone got the gif of Megareem almost flying out of the DREAM cage?
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
If they were going to go with Overeem/Rogers, that would provide a perfectly sane rationale for formally stripping Overeem of the title. You’d get a convenient and desirable fight without the taint of giving a guy who lost his last fight a title shot.
No one in the hypothetical CBS/Showtime audience is likely to know about Overeem anyway, so it would be pretty painless. Then, if Overeem wins as expected, he can by hyped as the former Strikeforce champion + [insert K-1 accomplishments].
Who cares if Rogers lost his last fight?
Nobody cared when Randy Couture won the UFC HW title versus Tim Sylvia after losing his previous fight. Or when he won the interim LHW belt versus Chuck Liddell after losing his previous fight.
There is no shame in losing to Fedor, just as there was no shame in Couture losing to Ricco and Chuck. The guy is the highest ranked HW in the promotion (not named Fedor), he is as deserving of a shot at the title as anyone (not named Fedor). I would have no problem with Werdum getting the title shot in his place, but Rogers shouldn’t be eliminated out of hand just because he had the misfortune of facing the best fighter in the history of the sport his last time out.
Randy Couture stepped in to face Sylvia at a time when there was a dearth of challengers for the belt. Arlovski was obviously out of the question, Vera hadn’t come back yet, Werdum hadn’t had his first UFC fight yet, Gonzaga hadn’t beaten Cro Cop yet, and Cro Cop had just made his UFC debut a month earlier.
But Strikeforce has, as you put it, the best fighter in the history of the sport on their roster. It would just look a little silly if they gave anybody else a title shot right now, especially somebody coming off of a loss.
It would be like the UFC giving Thiago Silva a title shot after he lost to Lyoto Machida. Nonsensical.
And I’m SURE there were people griping about Couture’s automatic title shot.
by JRN on Dec 1, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
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