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Fedor Emelianenko Was Not "Exposed"

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"As for the fedor fight, I thought it was very interesting, but I thought Rogers hesitated, and I felt like Fedor got exposed a bit." -- Joe Rogan

I'm a huge fan of Joe Rogan. If I'm ever half as good at commentary as he is I could die peacefully with a real sense of accomplishment. I also find him to be insightful and clairvoyant. He often sports a very unrecognized erudition about the fight game that informs his very sound judgment. In this case, however, he's completely out to lunch. Fedor was not exposed in any meaningful way and to suggest so seems deeply, deeply misplaced.

If you listen to Jordan Breen and I talk about what makes Fedor who he is (accolades, foibles and all) from MMA Nation this past Saturday, we discussed that one of the hallmarks of Fedor's remarkable career is his perseverance. It's not that Fedor has some otherworldly ability to never be hit, never be stumbled, never be challenged. In fact, it's quite the opposite. He is often challenged or hurt or put in very compromising positions. He can be cut, rocked, controlled, damaged, scored on. In a very real sense, Fedor is profoundly human and Brett Rogers is hardly the first opponent to discover this.

But that humanity is precisely what gives Fedor his utter remarkability. In a fragile human world and in a game as punishing and unforgiving as MMA, Fedor both succumbs to the frailties of his mortal flesh while always rising above them. Fedor is not perfect; he is just exceptional at never letting his imperfections get the best of him.

In an abstract sense, Fedor has made a career out of near flawless execution. He is essentially unbeaten and has dispatched opponents with ferocity, technical acumen and even ease at times. But on the more granular level, those wins and his accolades came at the expense of truly dangerous opponents in often extremely precarious moments. The notion that Fedor's identity is defined by routinely crushing every challenge ever faced is and has always been demonstrably false. Candidly, to believe as much is intellectual laziness partially fed by the hysteria that comes from promoting his identity to the masses.

In a game where the slightest amount of error can cost you everything, Fedor has found a way time and again to never let his shortcomings dictate outcomes. It is not that Fedor never errs or that others cannot remove him from his pedestal. Kazuyuki Fujita came close; Kevin Randleman came close; Andrei Arlovski, Brett Rogers and Mirko CroCop flirted with the possibility. But Fedor, as he has always done, never lets those errors ultimately cost him in the end. In my judgment, that is the true mark of an unmistakable champion.

No one should ever be surprised that there are shortcomings to Fedor's ability or in his career. He is human, all too human. Perhaps Alistair Overeem will be the first tip the balance in his favor should he ever face the Russian. Maybe we'll be lucky enough to watch Brock Lesnar get the opportunity. Regardless, what you should look for is not whether Fedor can put them in body bags with ruthless impunity. While he could stand to fight slightly better opposition, he is not now facing also-rans who have no business being with him in the cage. As I said all last week and will repeat here, Brett Rogers was always a legitimate opponent. Instead, what you should look for from Fedor is what has always defined him: his ability to persevere. He is always focused, always thinking, always waiting for the slightest opportunity or smallest window to exploit an opponent's weakness. And from the jaws of defeat, he has yanked himself out in truly epic and career-defining performances.

Fedor is human. Fedor can be hurt. Fedor can be defeated. That's what makes his seeming invincibility so appealing: there's nothing invincible about him.

Photo by Sherdog.

Strikeforce_emelianenko_vs_rogers_medium 

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I must break you.

Keep firing Assholes!

I am the King of Rome, and am above grammar. -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor

by Ubernoober on Nov 9, 2009 11:04 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts exactly.

I’m not sure why anyone would think Fedor was “exposed”. Very strange post-fight reactions I heard from a lot of fans.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Nov 9, 2009 11:07 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Remember a ton of people always echo what Joe Rogan says

by IRodC on Nov 9, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A lot of people were expecting Fedor to sub Rogers in less than a minute. Expectation were set really high. Fedor was also coming off of a ~10 month layoff.

Keep firing Assholes!

I am the King of Rome, and am above grammar. -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor

by Ubernoober on Nov 9, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, exactly.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Nov 9, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I think it was more the mythos and reverence for Fedor that has gotten greater every year since Pride fell—that was what was exposed. If you actually watch ALL of Fedor’s fights, not just highlights, you a constantly reminded that Fedor has been on the brink of loss many times. He just finds a way.

I also agree that a LOT of people completely sold Rogers short, which would lead to the impression that Fedor was getting worked by a nobody.

by judonerd on Nov 9, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think t has a lot to do with what people are made to believe by pre-fight hype. They’re made to expect a fighter who never loses a single exchange, is always in complete control, and dominates the fight in its entirety. When what they see doesn’t match their expectations, they’re bound to say things like this.

by lowellthehammer on Nov 9, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agree…

by CVD on Nov 9, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well said.

I’ve always been of the opinion that Fedor’s willpower and tenacity are his most beneficial attributes. That’s why he’s so incredible; you can slam him on his head, outbox him, take him down, and he will always find a way to win. It’s part of what makes him such a legendary figure, and it’s something I wish they had placed more focus on in the lead-up to the fight. Unfortunately, it isn’t tenaciousness that sells, it’s the myth of an unbeatable champion.

by lowellthehammer on Nov 9, 2009 11:10 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

See: My post on the other Fedor “exposition” post.

Fedor wasn’t exposed, he was Fedor.

The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino

by AboveThisFire on Nov 9, 2009 11:12 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Fedor has trouble against the biggest heavyweights….Fedor has never fought a “big” heavyweight that has a complete game…Hes only fought these one dimensional giants…(Hunt, Rogers, Choi, Zulu) I love Fedor as much as the next guy but I truly believe that if Overeem ended up on top, he wouldn’t have been swept so easily…

go watch the mark hunt fight.

by DamnSevern on Nov 9, 2009 11:16 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

One dimensional giants don’t escape arm bars (except if they are one dimensional in BJJ :p).

10/24

by spectaa on Nov 9, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

it was pure strength that got him out of that..

by DamnSevern on Nov 9, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I tend to think it was the cage (combined with some Rogers strength) that prevented fedor from slapping that armbar on; I could certainly be wrong, but it seems like if fedor could have gotten parallel with the arm (which would have meant putting his head and shoulders through the cage) that armbar would have had a much better chance of working. Fedor definately has some inexperience issues in the cage.

by verloc on Nov 9, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I remember thinking that the cage helped Rogers there, Fedor couldn’t move his hips to get his right leg over Brett’s face.

I could be wrong though, and Rogers did defend it pretty well

by Shaun32887 on Nov 9, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t deny that strength played a part in his escape (it does for everyone) but he was moving and rolling to keep it from getting cranked in. Which a lot of people that are very unskilled on the ground don’t have a mind to do, which I think is what a lot of people thought of Rogers.

by JeremyShane on Nov 9, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

for sure…Rogers was almost locked into a Kimura at some point too that he managed to muscle back out of.

"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield

by WeaponElDeem on Nov 9, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've spoken to

a few casual MMA fans already, and the consensus seems to be “I was underwhelmed.” Unfortunate, but I think the hype was perhaps a little too much. Personally, I thought the fight cemented Fedor as a legit threat should he ever step into the cage with Brock.

by rzor on Nov 9, 2009 11:17 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Fedro has proven nothing, IMO, except that if by some chance he connects with a AWKWARD/LOOPY Right hand, he can put someone down fast. But the chances of him doing that with Brock? The same chances of Fedro firing his M-1 Global cronies and signing with UFC tomorrow.

by BNTHIS on Nov 9, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps it's all in the head?

One does wonder, if the key Fedor’s success is that he has gotten his head straight on a level unachieved by any of his opponents. He’s certainly not strong on a superhuman level and I remain unconvinced about him being techically that much more superior to some of his opponents… perhaps it’s all (or mostly) in the head.

Perhaps Fedor, for some reason, is able to shrug off everything and anything his opponents throw at him and stay single-mindedly focused on the task at hand – winning the fight. Case in point – Fedor vs Randleman. Being hit with a suplex like Randleman hit Fedor with, I think quite a few fighters – even those on a world class level – might have let the situation get to them, even just a little. Fedor kept fighting as if nothing had happened – and we all know the result.

MMA as we know it is still a sport in its early development. In other sports, many of the legendary superstars have been first and foremost students of the game who have – instinctively or through intent studying – understood their chosen game on a level most of their peers haven’t. Fedor Emelianenko’s greatness may be based on something like this – a (perhaps instinctive, perhaps developed) deep understanding of fighting and an uncanny ability to focus on the fight at hand, take everything as it comes, never get rattled and “stay on the ball” like no-one else.

Just a thought.

by lhasafi on Nov 9, 2009 11:23 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nice picture lol Fedor didnt get exposed he was fedor he does what has to be done to get the Win. You can hit him you just cant finish him….but every thing comes to a end. Even fedor

"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar

by pitbull187 on Nov 9, 2009 11:26 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Does Rogan live on the west coast? I initially watched it on a stream, and thought that Rogers did a lot better than when I watched it again on my TV. For example, when Rogers was ground and pounding Fedor, based on the commentators and my crappy video, I thought he had Fedor in serious trouble. Seeing it again on real tv, it was obvious that only a couple of his punches landed.

by Jahbulon on Nov 9, 2009 11:26 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

lol, one post title “fedor was exposed” another titled “fedor was not exposed” … reminds me of “shogun was robbed” and then “shogun was not robbed”

I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08

by MicahW on Nov 9, 2009 11:35 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Both similar, not only in structure, but in how dumb the arguments are.

"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate

by kyfm621 on Nov 9, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The way I see it

you could say his inability to handle the clinch against the fence very well was exposed. It’s clearly something with more clinch ability could take advantage of. Also, it seems like he’s lost a touch of his explosiveness on the ground. He’s still very dangerous, but he never seemed to have Rogers, a guy with presumably no ground game whatsoever, in any serious trouble in the place that used to be his domain. He’s become more of a striker over the past few years, and I think he’s lost just a bit of his incredible ground explosiveness.

by Trysdor on Nov 9, 2009 11:35 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Rogers is the biggest guy who was also good that Fedor’s fought in a while.

Keep firing Assholes!

I am the King of Rome, and am above grammar. -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor

by Ubernoober on Nov 9, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

but I still think the Fedor of 4-5 years ago would have finished him on the ground after it went there.

by Trysdor on Nov 9, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The image of Fedor in your head (the head of all hardcores too, I’m not singling you out) from 4-5 years ago could beat godzilla with a gogoplata (just imagine Fedor with godzilla in his guard). I think that a problem for a LOT of hardcore fans, including myself, is that they expected fedor to destroy him by way of sidewinder missle 10 seconds into the first round. As much as we talk about Fedor being the terminator/cyborg/whatever, he’s very human. He’s taken on this god-like image; if we cling to it, the crash after he loses will be explosive.

by verloc on Nov 9, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

you could say his inability to handle the clinch against the fence very well was exposed.

You could say Fedor was exposed as a man that a 265 lb. opponent could lean on against the cage without throwing any strikes, sure. But why bother?

by JRN on Nov 9, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At fight time Rogers probably weighed about 280… Fedor was barely touched in the clinch and when he chose to end the tie up, he ended it.

If you’re familiar with his past fights, this was absolutely a typical Fedor performance, flaws and all.

This was a great write up.

by bleve_ on Nov 9, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fedor is Fedor

A badass Russion dude cyborg that throws murderballs and breaks limbs. His stock rose exponentially on Sat night. I’ve got all kinds of people telling me they saw “Fay-door” kill “that big black guy” on Sat and wanted to know when he fights again. Old people. lol

Mauricio Shogun Rua #1 LHW in the World. The TRUE Champion.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Nov 9, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dennis Green agrees...

….Strikeforce should just crown Fedor’s ass…

/for real, he was not “exposed” but I don’t know how he would handle Brock’s “lunch box” hammerfists….

by NeilLomaxFan on Nov 9, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Great article.

The only time I think Fedor was “exposed” (now we could argue the semantics of what being “exposed” really entails for days) was against Arlovski — I for one thought Rogers had an impressive performance and never in my life did I see Fedor dropping him the way he did.

Fedor’s strongest asset as I see it is neither skillset or athletic ability, but rather his mentality – his ability to stay calm under pressure and pull off strategically sound moves in compromising positions.

Bloody hell.

by 3PA on Nov 9, 2009 11:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

fedor did well, but...

Rogers clearly gassed in the first round. Everyone is saying how well Rogers did, but the guy gassed in the first round and was so gassed in the 2nd it directly led to his being knocked out. His hands were down, he was standing so close to fedor, he looked exhausted. The guy’s jab and reach could have won him the fight had he been able to throw them more often… but he didn’t have cardio (or the big stage and big lights took something out of him).

Fedor proved again his hands are explosive and accurate, and his mental acumen is top notch. I agree that he wasn’t “exposed”. His propagandists market him as invincible, and I think that is why you see a backlash.

by chimps on Nov 9, 2009 11:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

A very well written piece. Fedor Emelianenko is the best heavyweight MMA fighter that I’ve ever seen. Having said that, though, I believe his penchant for getting cut could (and may) be his undoing in a future fight. Because this is a combat sport and not a real self-defense scenario, doctor’s stoppage by cut is a 100% legit way to win a fight. It’s one reason guys throw so many elbows from inside their opponent’s guard. It’s also the reason I consider Emelianenko’s loss to Khosaka a legitimate loss. Fedor acknowledges that cut was from a legit strike. The cut was very bad. Rogers did break Fedor’s nose with a jab but he didn’t open up any cuts around or above Fedor’s eyes on Saturday. I don’t see Fedor losing while in Strikeforce (he’s that much better than their roster, in my opinion). But if he somehow were to, I see it being by cut.

by SlickRick00 on Nov 9, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

While I do agree that wins via TKO (cut) are legit, I still do consider them unfortunate… the difference between stopping a fight or letting it go on may be a couple of inches.

Bloody hell.

by 3PA on Nov 9, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True. It’s not the preferred method of victory, for sure. Opponents of Fedor, however, would do well to make that part of their strategy, though, in my opinion.

by SlickRick00 on Nov 9, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I honestly hope you don’t mean “a couple of inches” on a cut

by David_ on Nov 9, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My opinion on cuts, is if they could magically close the cut instantly, they’d probably let the fight go on. A knockout is a decisive victory, even if the person wakes up, they’ve still clearly lost the fight. A submission is a decisive victory, if the person is choked out, they’ve still lost, even if they wake up right away.

I just get the feeling that cuts are different, it’s more of an unfortunate accident than anything else. And like I said, I feel like if they could magically close it, they’d rather let the fight go on than stopping and calling it a decisive victory.

by Shaun32887 on Nov 10, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fedor acknowledges that cut was from a legit strike.

Hmmm, where did you get that from? The cut was from elbow and elbow strikes were illegal in Rings.

by mikser on Nov 9, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Don’t have the quote in front of me. I’ll see if I can find it later but in an interview once he stated that he had no problem with the decision that it was a clean blow.

by SlickRick00 on Nov 9, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I haven’t ever heard about it – and I read every interview with Fedor. Please tell me, if you find it.

by mikser on Nov 9, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A TKO from a cut doesn’t seem to happen as much these days as they used to, the first fight in this season of TUF as a case in point.

by brad23 on Nov 9, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Funny how much drama one twitter remark can cause.

I don’t know what Rogan really meant, but in a way he is right in that the myth of Fedor did get exposed, at least to all the casual fans that have been watching the lead up to this fight and probably hearing legendary stories from their more hardcore friends.

Frankly, what makes Fedor great, in my mind, its two things. 1. He is not the best at anything, but better than most at everything. Kind of like the guy who wins the Decathlon by getting 2nd or 3rd in every event instead of winning one or two and losing others badly. 2. Fedor fights in a very open style, he seems to try and fight when the fight is sloppy and open because that is where the best openings occur. I’ll be he practices this way too. His opponents seem to do well when the fight is tight and controlled, instead of open and wild.

Just my 2 cents.

by Razreshat on Nov 9, 2009 11:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

We all know rogan doesn’t give a damn about casuals, he hate them, hell probably he hate us too.

10/24

by spectaa on Nov 9, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be nice if people could actually wait for Fedor to lose before they say he was exposed. Not to many other sports where you can get repeatedly “exposed” yet continue to win. The expectations are simply too high for Fedor.

I also don’t think fans really appreciate the differences between the HW division and other weight classes. HW is the only weigh-class where there is regularly a 30 lb or more weight differential between fighters. No matter what your GF tells you, size matters.

"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday

by MyFistYourFace on Nov 9, 2009 11:57 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

So basically the fight I saw Saturday night was just Fedor being Fedor?

by Reciprocity on Nov 9, 2009 12:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yes. See also (if you haven’t already, you probably have) vs. Fujita and vs. Randleman.

by JRN on Nov 9, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Hype had a lot to with the negative reactions.

People keep billing him as the greatest fighter in MMA history and for the huge amount of casul fans that were exposed to him on Saturday, an Anderson Silva/Forrest Griffin-type domination was expected. Especially considering Rogers was considered a fringe Top-10 HW in most rankings (including BE), while Forrest was (and still is for the most part) a Top-5 LHW.

Instead they saw him damaged in a fairly close first round, then land one of his trademark wild looping right hands in the second. Maybe Rogers is underrated, but to casual fans, damage done goes a long way in their minds. When’s the last time we’ve seen Anderson with blood on his face?

by SidHartman on Nov 9, 2009 12:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think Anderson got splattered by some of Rich’s blood in their 2nd fight.

Keep firing Assholes!

I am the King of Rome, and am above grammar. -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor

by Ubernoober on Nov 9, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There was the exact same reaction after the Arlovski fight as well though.

“ZOMG he was getting his ass kicked until he knocked him out!”

I think Fedor is put on a pedestal so high that any performance that isn’t devastatingly perfect, will invoke this type of reaction. When in reality, as this article so aptly describes, devastatingly perfect performances are not what make Fedor Fedor.

Sorry, he Jason Bourned me.

by MMAussie on Nov 9, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fujita exposed Fedor’s chin a loooong time ago. Did that stop Fedor?

for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.

by Bandaka on Nov 9, 2009 12:55 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Wasn’t that more of a shot to the temple/ear? It appeared to be more of a (badly) disorienting shot than one that was putting out his lights.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Nov 9, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

exposed his chin? as being ridiculously solid, maybe. that shot would’ve KO’d just about anybody.

Incredible chin, equally incredible recuperative abilities.

by Grappo on Nov 9, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Luke strikes again. You have to define the word exposed before you say that he was, or wasn’t exposed. The cage is a potential disadvantage for Fedor as a small heavyweight. A bigger heavyweight can corner him like Rogers did at times. So, yes Luke Thomas, a potential weakness of Fedor was exposed.

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 1:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I did explain quite clearly what it meant: that we learned something new and profoundly damaging about Fedor that Rogers brought out that we heretofore did not know. And that is clearly not true. That Fedor might have more work to do against larger opposition in the clinch or from the bottom against the cage might be true, but because he performed ably in both instances the word exposed seems overreaching.

If we want the word exposed to mean anything we’d like it to or that Fedor has weaknesses, sure, he got exposed, but I wouldn’t waste real estate on this site for such a completely worthless definition.

by Luke Thomas on Nov 9, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We learned that he may not be as good in a cage as in a ring. That’s the exposure of a weakness. Your using the same word to mean different things now when you say he was exposed, but not “exposed”. Pick one.

Maybe instead of using the word exposed, you should have said that Fedor is still the best heavyweight, or you still don’t think anyone can beat Fedor, but make no mistake a weakness was EXPOSED.

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We learned that he may not be as good in a cage as in a ring. That’s the exposure of a weakness

It would be the exposure of a weakness if we learned definitively that he’s not as good in the cage. But we didn’t.

What we did learn is that he’s OK with his opponent getting double underhooks and leaning him against the fence if all said opponent is going to do is throw an occasional short knee to the legs. The same sort of thing can and does happen in the corners of rings all the time.

We also saw that it is possible to restrict Fedor’s movement against the cage on the ground while throwing strikes. Of course, the same is true for everyone. Fighters who really have a problem with the cage don’t escape that position within seconds.

After a couple of UFC losses, we saw that Cro Cop had a real problem adjusting his game to the cage. That was definitive exposure of a weakness. The jury is still out on Fedor.

by JRN on Nov 9, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We don’t know anything 100% about Fedor.

For example, is he better standing up or on the ground?
We don’t know, he’s very good at both aspects, but we make judgements about him based on the idea that he’s probably better adapted in 1 area or the other.

Same thing with the him being in the cage, we just don’t have as many examples on him in particular. Thing is though, the smaller fighter usually is at more of a disadvantage inside a cage, so he should be as well, on average.

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thing is though, the smaller fighter usually is at more of a disadvantage inside a cage, so he should be as well, on average.

I agree. We knew that before the fight. So it’s hard for me to understand how the fight itself could count as “exposure.” Exposure of the obvious, maybe.

by JRN on Nov 9, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I did want to say one thing about the fight; I remember in the second round when Rogers had Fedor against the fence, just before the tko, and one of the announcers said that Rogers was a 6-1 dog and I thought: “That doesn’t seem right… 3-1 is more like it.” I guess during the fight it’s easier to tell, but after he made it out of the first I realized that a lot of us had underestimated him.

by verloc on Nov 9, 2009 1:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

This entire thread is subjective and an opinion piece..

Therefor; There is no right or wrong answer..

Personally Fedor wasn’t exposed as much as a “weakness” of his was exposed…

That being the cage tactics.. I pointed this out on Sunday.. His inability and/or lack of knowledge on how to effectively fight for underhooks against the cage is a very real problem for him. Maybe he was just being patient, maybe he was hurt from the broken nose and needed a few minutes to get his wits about him.. ?? All these are hypothetical to say the least.. What we can evaluate is on what we’ve been given at this point. He’s had 1 fight in the cage and from a positioning standpoint, he would have been in trouble if Rogers had half the gas as someone of Lesnar or Coutures stature.. Fedor was “stuck” with his back against the cage and any good wrestler that can effectively pin him against the cage (whether it be clinch or ground) can legitimately use that tactic against Fedor at this point.. We need to see more fights inside the cage before be can make absolute’s..

Everything else is merely subjective to individual perception at best..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

by MMAuthority on Nov 9, 2009 1:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

//Personally Fedor wasn’t exposed as much as a "weakness" of his was exposed//

He exposed his weakness. Exposed. We didn’t know he would struggle somewhat against the cage and now that has been EXPOSED.

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude – watch the parts of the fight where they’re against the cage. Fedor pretty slickly unbalanced Rogers and tossed him off – he was in little to no trouble against the cage and basically was able to get out of the position whenever he chose.

The Couture example is so silly as well. Couture is like 50-60lbs lighter than Rogers, so he’s not going to be able to use any of the large size advantages Rogers had. Couture has also lost considerable speed, which was a big advantage for him – watch the Nog fight. Randy will have very little chance of doing any of this stuff you’re talking about against Fedor, sorry man.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Nov 9, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I watched the fight..

No need for me to watch it again.. you obviously missed the ENTIRE point of my post..

Fedor was stuck against the cage.. The only point he was able to freely reposition himself was at the point that Rogers was so completely gassed that he had no other alternative at that point. Rogers had dominate position for the majority of the fight, both against the cage and on the ground.. Again.. I said “majority” of the fight.. Fedor only had Rogers in a bad position 1 time in the fight. That was the sweep on the ground and the armbar attempt. Rogers reversed that and landed in top position and mounted more offense..

My reference about Couture wasn’t comparing Couture to Fedor. It was comparing his “gastank” to Rogers.. If you would have read clearly, you would have seen the part where I said " he would have been in trouble if Rogers had half the gas as someone of Lesnar or Coutures stature.."

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

by MMAuthority on Nov 9, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agree

this is what i said earlier that so many people, in their blinding love for fedor, seem to have missed- Rogers gassed during the first round. He was gassed in the 2nd, and it directly led to his getting KTFO.

I also wonder what the hell ppl are talking about when they say fedor is “good” at everything, not great. Actually, he has great explosiveness, power and speed in his hands, certainly at the top of the heavyweight food chain in that regard. He has great subs and great transitions, again, relative to the heavyweight class as a whole. He has mediocre wrestling.

by chimps on Nov 9, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The only point he was able to freely reposition himself was at the point that Rogers was so completely gassed that he had no other alternative at that point. Rogers had dominate position for the majority of the fight, both against the cage and on the ground

I’ll assume that means “dominant position”, and that’s laughably biased and ignorant. This whole “Rogers was sooo gassed” is complete horseshit…he spent the entire fight with his hand held nowhere near his head, but people keep saying “he had his hands down! He was sooo gassed!”. Rogers leaned up against him on the cage, held onto the actual cage several times and did little with the position – he scored some decent knees to the legs and that was it. Several times he was ragdolled around, including when they were up against the cage.

Fedor only had Rogers in a bad position 1 time in the fight.

I don’t know why I’d even bother commenting on this retardedly incorrect comment, but….are you serious? Here’s a few I can think of off the top of my head:

- rocks him pretty badly and hip tosses him to the ground
- top position —> kimura attempt – which was reversed
- following the g’n’p/armbar reversal he ended up having Rogers in a prone position on the ground
- top position in an arm triangle attempt.
- had Rogers completely covering up from a flurry (against the cage – where Rogers “dominated” no less)
- half conscious in the fetal position….

Yup – 1 time.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Nov 9, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

sorry, but your lovechild fedor agrees with me...

read his comments on sherdog, he states that he noticed rogers was “tiring”, and planned his knockout punch based on that and on rogers’ telegraphed movements. But perhaps you are a strikeforce/M1 propagandist, and you dont give a shit.

by chimps on Nov 12, 2009 3:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

…possible for Mr. Rogan to be trying to light an anti-fedor fire?…I don’t imagine it to be too unreasonable, he is on the UFC payroll.

"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield

by WeaponElDeem on Nov 9, 2009 1:19 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he just wasn’t impressed with Fedor. Ever think, he might just be giving his honest god damn opinion?

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

sure...

I thought about it but don’t agree that it is true….you could have typed in all caps…it might have made you sound angrier…

"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield

by WeaponElDeem on Nov 9, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I AM TYPING IN CAPS!! WOOOOOOT!! :)

by BNTHIS on Nov 9, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You know what, I heart and agree with Rogan 99% of the time but this came off to me as a little Zuffa nutthugerish. Chael Sonnen anyone?

Mauricio Shogun Rua #1 LHW in the World. The TRUE Champion.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Nov 9, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s called special pleading. Look it up homey.

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

...

…homie…

"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield

by WeaponElDeem on Nov 9, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you…Rogan generally has some really good insight, but I couldn’t put it past him to try to downplay Fedor a bit. Obviously I don’t know him personally, but every good employee that likes where they work tries to protect their brand.

"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield

by WeaponElDeem on Nov 9, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He gives props to Fedor all the time. Now he is critical of him and the assumption is that he’s finally towing the company line, all the sudden?

Rogan gives his opinions about Fedor, usually he is impressed and the other night he was less so. Why does this criticism have to mean he was hugging ZUFFA’s nuts?

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

but this came off to me as a little Zuffa nutthugerish.

Did you read that? I didn’t say “ZOMG ROGAN TEH ZUFFA NUTTHUGGER TEH BIASED!!!!1”

Mauricio Shogun Rua #1 LHW in the World. The TRUE Champion.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Nov 9, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What makes you think he wasn’t just giving his honest opinion, when he always seemed to do so in the past, do you think that Fedor’s performance was beyond criticism?

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Fedor was indeed in the UFC things would be SOOOOOOO different. You wouldn’t be able to pry logic away from Fedors nuts. But I’ll give Dana credit becuase his tune has been changing. He wants Fedor. He know s Fedor is the best deep down. Will he say it? No, but he knows it. I wanted him there too, Dana. =/

Mauricio Shogun Rua #1 LHW in the World. The TRUE Champion.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Nov 9, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So what you’re saying is that if Fedor was in the UFC, Rogan wouldn’t feel free to be honest but since he isn’t, Rogan feels like he can be honest?

I agree with that, but the issue was – Was Rogan just giving his honest opinion on Fedor, or is there any evidence that there was something more to his statements.

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fedor....the best?

Brock Lesnar is the UFC HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION.

HE is the Best. Just what is Fedor the Champion of? An Ice-Cream-Eating Contest? Please….

by BNTHIS on Nov 9, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve heard Rogan state that Fedor is the best fighter in the world before. I’ve also heard him say the same about Anderson Silva though. I don’t agree with him that Fedor was “exposed” but I also don’t think he’s shilling for the UFC just because he thinks that.

by Grappo on Nov 9, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

…possibly because of the recent attempted and failed acquisition of Fedor…

The fact that Dana White was very displeased with not finding a home for Fedor at the UFC, and losing him to a now legit promotion.

I agree that Rogan generally tells it like it is…but I don’t think Dana would really want to be handing out favors anymore to a rival promotion that has “The 1# Heavyweight in the World”

"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield

by WeaponElDeem on Nov 9, 2009 2:04 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

This isn’t the 1st time the UFC tried to get Fedor and Rogan didn’t start saying Fedor was exposed then. Why is it so hard to believe that Rogan honestly thought Fedor just looked beatable so he said he was a “bit exposed”?

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And there was a point where the UFC was going to allow him to participate in competitive Sambo and allow him to wear rival promotion clothing in the past? They really attempted to cater to Fedor’s “Needs” for this signing, have they done that in the past?

Why is it so hard to believe that Rogan honestly thought Fedor just looked beatable so he said he was a "bit exposed"?

Because as I stated earlier Rogan IMO generally tells it like it is and IMO and the last I checked 80% of BE Fedor did not look exposed

"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield

by WeaponElDeem on Nov 9, 2009 2:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

He couldn’t disagree with you guys? Have you heard some of his bat shit insane viewpoints on life?

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I did not realize we were talking about anything but MMA…

"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield

by WeaponElDeem on Nov 9, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We are talking about why Rogan said what he said. I say, he prolly said it, because he honestly felt that way.

If you think that he couldn’t honestly feel that way, look at the other crazy ass shit he thinks. He doesn’t have to be nuthugging for him to say insane shit.

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I completely think he could feel that way, but I also think he could be getting fed canned responses…

And I agree that Rogan is playing deep deep left field.

"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield

by WeaponElDeem on Nov 9, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So because BE said it, Joe has to agree with it?

Agree or disagree with whether or not Fedor was exposed, but if Joe generally tells it like it is, why is he suddenly not telling it how it is in his opionion because the majority of one on-line community saw it differently?

by black dragon on Nov 9, 2009 2:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

…everything that started the conversation was pure speculation…and Rogan certainly has his own opinions, but the question for me is wether his opinion was influenced by his organization or his own thoughts.

"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield

by WeaponElDeem on Nov 9, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

People need to keep the word “exposed” in perspective. To me exposed is houston alexanders ground game when he gets fullmounted in a minute by thiago silva. Or petruzelli KO of Kimbo slice in a minute.

Fedor getting held to the cage by a guy who outweighs 40 lbs does not fall under the definition of exposed to me.. thats just something hell need to work on

by pandaboy99 on Nov 9, 2009 2:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Fedor was exposed...

exposed to the viewing audience that his greatest skill is his composure and patience.

I can’t even mention Lesnar in the same sentence until I see him faced with adversity, with an opponent that can both negate his grappling and force him to stand and fight. Which Fedor would more than likely do. Anf I don’t think Lesnar would fair well striking with the likes of Rogers. I don’t drink the Fedor Kool-Aid but do I recognize the obvious?

Ohhhh Yeah!

by Koob on Nov 9, 2009 2:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Lesnar would have Rogers on his back in negative 8 seconds. Maybe Rogers could do ok off his back ( i doubt it), but his striking would be limited to winging 1 shot, as Lesnar double legged him across the cage.

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thats true but Brock wouldn’t want to strike with Grim and he doesn’t look comfortable doing so in general. Couture proved that a high level wrestler, even smaller and older, can keep him from controling the fight on the ground. Would you consider any fighter worthy of speaking in the terms of Fedor after beating a past his prime Couture and Frank Mir? I’m not even sure he could push around Rogers seeing he comes into the fight at close to 280 himself. But this is all speculation, and what Fedor has done is fact.

by Koob on Nov 9, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fedor has NOTHING on Brock, Koob.

let’s remove the Fedor-colored glasses off for a bit and realize that The Grimm and Brock are two totally different types of Fighter.

The Grimm had Fedor in half-guard and while many a punch didn’t land flush, just picture something a bit different if Brett was Brock instead…..it’s not pretty.

by BNTHIS on Nov 9, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The problem is...

I want desperately to see Fedor lose and end this ice cream eating uber sweater wearing reign of terror. I am so from “hugging the nut sac” of said Last Emperor as a doughy Russian dead eyed robot lover can be. Like I said before Brock has a career built on wins over an old Couture and Frank Mir. This is fact. To say Fedor has nothing on Brock is well….looking through Brock colored glasses and pure speculation. I’m lazy so you can google all of Fedor’s wins (all 30) and tell me how Brock’s 4 compare in impact and quality of opponent’s of Fedor in comparison to a 46 yr old 225lb Randy Couture and Frank Mir. But yes Brock must be the P4P best HW in the world after 2 wins. He’s BROCKLESNAR and Fedor has never knocked out a 280 pound beast of a man.

by Koob on Nov 9, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

get that logic outta here

We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.

by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 10, 2009 3:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It’s a very odd reaction from Rogan, because it sounds to me like he is either being a) a UFC company man, or b) a casual MMA fan that doesn’t understand Fedor and the way he fights.

I’ve never previously thought of him as either, but I’m sad to say that between this and his commentary during the Shogun/Machida fight his stock has gone down in my book somewhat.

by brad23 on Nov 9, 2009 3:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

LOL, right because you couldn’t just honestly think that when Brett Rogers was using the cage effectively against Fedor, a potential hole in Fedor’s game was indeed a “bit exposed”

by Razz on Nov 9, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There’s a huge difference between “using the cage effectively” and “leaning on someone while holding the cage”, which a lot of people on here seem to be trying to conflate…

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Nov 9, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He looked pretty exposed to me, he was controlled up against the cage a horrible position to be caught up against alot of UFC HW’s. He was on was getting caught with punches up agains the cage one of the worst positions to be in against a monster like Lesnar. And was swinging away like a mad man which leaves him open for counter punches by massive guys like a Carwin. Yeah he won and props to him but you really have to be hugging his nuts hard to not see that if Rogers was more than a 1 dimensional guy with no gas tank you’d probably be making excuses as to why he lost on Saturday.

by Raker on Nov 9, 2009 5:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Too funny…

…oh wait, you are actually being serious! LOL.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Nov 9, 2009 7:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Brock would kill Fedor.

Don’t know about Raker but I AM BEING SERIOUS!

oh and L..O…FREAKIN’…L. :p

by BNTHIS on Nov 9, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for your potent analysis. I guess we should just know Brock would kill him since he’s beaten a 46 year old LHW who was coming of an 18 month layoff (and quite frankly was quite overrated), is 1-1 against a guy that’s lost to Brandon Vera, Dan Cristianson (I don’t care what the hometown judges say), Pa de Pano and Ian Freeman and took out a completely washed up Heath Herring (the one that got crushed in his prime by Fedor).

If you want to talk about a fighter that’s got a reputation based on being set up against “puffed up” name opponents, look no further than BROCKLESNAR.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Nov 10, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So here’s the deal:

Anyone – and I do mean anyone – that uses any variety of “nut hugging” in any form of a serious or even semi-serious argument is getting banned so their stupidity doesn’t infect everyone else.

Consider yourself warned.

by Luke Thomas on Nov 9, 2009 9:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I thought Kid Nate was the moderator here?

by BNTHIS on Nov 9, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Woohoo!

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Nov 9, 2009 11:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Great post, Luke.

Along with Kid Nate’s post from a few days ago, and analysis from Brent, Leland, Rome etc, BE has really done a fantastic job covering Fedor and the CBS show.

Can’t wait for UFC 105.

I specializes in grammar fail.

by a tommy point on Nov 9, 2009 6:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

thanks much

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Nov 9, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

WTF

WTF does “granular level” mean?? please stop making up terms, unless you’re going to define them. thanks

by saaby on Nov 10, 2009 5:58 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

They really come out of the wood work after big shows. Maybe instead of asking people to “dumb down” to your level, you could aspire to step up to there’s?

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Nov 10, 2009 8:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs


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