Strikeforce: 'Fedor vs. Rogers' Winners and Losers: Gina Carano Tops List of Winners
by Michael Rome on Nov 9, 2009 8:00 AM EST
in News
133 comments
There were a number of winners and losers coming out of Strikeforce's first CBS show. Below I've listed the winners, losers, and those who fell somewhere in the middle.
Winners:
Gina Carano: Before the show, I noted Carano would be an interested observer in the ratings on CBS. Now that the numbers have come in and CBS took last place in its timeslot, it's clear that they need Gina to do a big number on broadcast television. Instead of gaining 1.5 million viewers on the undercard with Gina and building toward the main event, the show lost a ton of steam with the Jake Shields fight, which turned viewers off. To break the 3.0 barrier they need Gina.
Fedor Emelianenko: Fedor is a big winner coming out of the first Strikeforce CBS show. His previous largest audience in the United States was at just about 100,000 viewers for Affliction. Close to 5 million viewers watched him knock Brett Rogers out in spectacular fashion in a show built entirely around him.
Brett Rogers: Rogers did well for himself. I expected him to get blown out, but he put up a hell of a fight and actually had Fedor in trouble. If he can put together a few wins he could have a legitimate claim on a rematch.
MMA Fans: When CBS first presented MMA, they built around Kimbo Slice, who is a celebrity that can't fight. Fedor is the exact opposite. He's the best fighter in MMA history, but he's not a celebrity. At least not yet. I have a feeling his days of anonymity are coming to an end. Those of us who are fans of the sport should be thankful a network like CBS was willing to dedicate a Saturday night to a foreign icon with no name value in the United States just because he is the best in the world.
Losers:
Jake Shields: Shields is the only guy that undisputedly came out of this show in a worse place than he was at before. The crowd hated him more and more as the fight went on, and the ratings demonstrate that he drove viewers away in droves. He "won" the fight but lost the war. He's not going to be on CBS again any time soon.
Mark Miller and Deray Davis: These guys didn't get a chance to fight despite training to fight for weeks. It's nice they were paid their "show" money, but at that level it is more about the opportunity to fight than the peanuts they make to fight. They gave up other fight dates to train for this one, and it's a shame they didn't get the opportunity to fight.
Somewhere in the middle:
Strikeforce: The name of the company was rarely mentioned on the telecast. This was clearly "Saturday Night Fights" and not "Strikeforce." Maybe that's for the best, but I don't think they gained much in terms of name value from the CBS opportunity. They did a decent rating and put on a nice card, and I do think they'll get another opportunity, so from that perspective it was a success. It's worth noting they only got into the national television business in early 2009, and in less than a year they've signed Fedor, promoted Carano vs. Cyborg, and secured a spot on CBS. Not bad at all.
CBS: The broadcast was a mixed bag. Gus Johnson was better than he's been in the past, Mauro was informative at times and way too jokey at others, and Frank was insightful even though he constantly mispronounced Sokoudjou's name. The pacing of the show was very good, but the cutaways between rounds and before decisions to interviews really rubbed me the wrong way, especially for non-interviews with Fedor's people and translators. At least they didn't have any skeleton segments.
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i dont get the shields hate
i dont maybe its casue i enjoyed the fight and like the ground game they weren’t just laying and praying for the most part sure they slowed down in the 2 rds but it wasn’t that bad imo
They really should of called it Strikforce sat night fights or something wiht Strikeforce in the name
other winner
WAMMA becasue they got mentioned and returned from the dead lol
Twitter @mikemazzacare
by MaZZacare on Nov 8, 2009 10:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I watched the fights in a bar so i didn’t hear any of the commentating, but Sheilds did a great job of laying and praying. He looked nervous on his feet and went for the takedown each time. I am fine with that, but he needs to be much more active on the ground. In addition, and I am not saying this is “right”, but CBS will certainly not look to have him out there again, and i don’t think that is a bad idea.
by mo dogg on Nov 8, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What Shields did was not lay and pray. Advancing position over and over again is, by definition, not lay and pray.
by JRN on Nov 8, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im only gonna hate on Shields for one reason.
He is annoyingly one dimensional. At least guys like Gray Maynard and Tyson Griffin try to throw something else to their game … and go to their bread and butter when they have to. Shilds made it a point to do the same thing over and over and over and over. The fact that it didnt work to finish Miller the first 239 times … he probably wouldnt have subbed him in the next 50 times he tried the same thing. So he had no intention of getting anything other than a decision in my mind at that point.
It seems like any time Miller swept him or got out of a bad position Shields would hang on to dear life …. he just refused to stand up.
I hope someone with good takedown defense knocks his head into the 10th row. He’s annoying.
That said … I actually enjoyed the transitions and Millers escapes and me and my buddy were loving every aspect of the fight. Its just Shields strategy was getting very annoying at a certain point.
by Sauce on Nov 9, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shilds made it a point to do the same thing over and over and over and over
You mean win?
It seems like any time Miller swept him or got out of a bad position Shields would hang on to dear life …. he just refused to stand up.
That’s called not being stupid. He would lose the fight standing, which is why he kept taking it to the ground. Makes sense if ya think about it. He fought with his strengths and avoided his opponents strengths – strategy. Something Antonio Silva should have stuck with.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And also
instead of blasting Shields for not being able to finish, you should be blasting Miller for spending more time mugging for the camera than training to stop the takedowns.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess ur right
And that take a lot of patience too. I dont know …for some reason … it made me frustrated watching that. I love jiu jitsu … I love seeing it … love practicing it …i love the shittiest fights MMA has to offer (TUF lol) …. but for some reason Jake Shileds still managed to piss me off last night.
Maybe it was cause I was rooting for Miller … I dont know
by Sauce on Nov 9, 2009 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"If you can't stop me from doing what I want...
…then why should I stop?"
by pdl on Nov 9, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To get paid the big money.
I’m pretty sure he would want that too. Unless he changes his style it’s going to take how another few fights over top people before he gets there.
I love the Spurs of the past, but they got little National love. Oppressive suffocating grinding games are not enjoyed by the masses.
by natyong on Nov 9, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for making our sport a little less legitimate competition, and a little more spectacle.
Related: I swear to god, if I see another FOTN bonus in the UFC go to a sloppy, ultimate brawling fight…
by pdl on Nov 9, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah yeah ... its our sport
We all love it … but its also entertainment. And its on TV for a reason. You’re gonna have to live with that. Sucks … yes … but thats how these companies make their money and thats how they will stay around for a long time.
by Sauce on Nov 9, 2009 12:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bullshit I will.
I’m not going to knock Jake Shields for fighting to his strengths. He was smart, did exactly what Mayhem thought he would do, and did it better than he could defend. He was a better martial artist that night. It’s not like he was being Antonio McKee either, he was advancing position like a jiu jitsu practitioner has always trained to do. He legitimately won a hard-fought, technical competition against a game opponent and all you do is trash talk him and call him boring.
Baseball is a sport and entertainment as well. And because of that, guys like Sammy Sosa, who are shitty in the field and inconsistent at the plate, got paid big bucks because they could wing some dingers over the fence. In both cases, it’s lowering the sport from the quest for talent and athleticism.
I refuse to join in with the voices that are so ready to compromise. I will not deride a talented fighter for being unable to finish a fighter who is notoriously hard to finish. And I will continue to reprimand those who are so ready to sell out. It might not make a difference, but it sure doesn’t hurt and it lets me sleep at night.
by pdl on Nov 9, 2009 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
So u wouldnt complaijn for a second if ...
An top level wrestler took guys down and blanketed them to a title and undefeated record … and ud keep watching this guy and enjoying it?
Hes playing to his strength and winning.
Im just playing devils advocate now. Because Ive been defending guys like “the boring” Machida … and “the lay and pray” Gray Maynard for what seems like forever (two of my maybe top 10 favourite fighters)
But something about Shields performance last night rubbed me the wrong way. Im surprised a lot of people here are defending him.
by Sauce on Nov 9, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s exactly what I’m saying. At UFC 98, I was happier to see Sonnen/Miller grappling than Edgar/Sherk’s cage kickboxing match, just like I had no issue with Barry/Hardonk staying on the feet. If there’s a dominant wrestler, it’s only a matter of time before a better wrestler beats them (Hughes-GSP) or they get sprawl and brawled by a superior striker (Tito/Randy-Chuck). I’ll summarize in bold, so that it’s clear and simple to everybody following this: I want the more skilled fighter to win and be rewarded as such. I figured that’s what we all always want, right?
by pdl on Nov 9, 2009 1:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough … yes.
Well in that case Ill be patiently waiting till somebody can stop Shields from imposing his very predictable game plan on them. Or maybe beating him at his own game.
PS. My favourite part of the Sherk Edgar fight was when Sherk threw him to the ground with ease near the end(all of one time if I remember right)… and I was wondering why the fool didnt go to his bread and butter earlier.
Either way … u make a good point.
by Sauce on Nov 9, 2009 1:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rumors are that Sherk’s knees are starting to go. Also Edgar stuffed two other takedowns that round from Sherk.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Nov 9, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want that
I don’t want to watch Sherk. Hear Sonnen. If they get to the top I’ll desire to watch them. I’ll probably root against them, but heck that’s sport.
We pick a team or athlete we wish to relate to. It might be cause they play in the city I’m from or any other reason. We want our team or athlete to win.
Otherwise I want to see a competitive nail biter that can end at anytime. The uninformed could see that Miller did that with the choke. Even somewhat with the escapes. Shields didn’t. Frank was excited about a Twister, but did the audience know why.
I have a small interest in x-game sports but I not impressed with difficult grabs and tweaks. I don’t understand them. Give me spins, flips and big air.
by natyong on Nov 9, 2009 1:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But something about Shields performance last night rubbed me the wrong way. Im surprised a lot of people here are defending him.
Because he won, and Miller lost.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
^this^
people are calling shields a boring laynpray fighter, but fail to realize that he has finished the previous 9 fighters before miller. lawler was in alot of rankings top 5 as a mw, and daley is now a big hit in the ufc. in miller he fought a fighter who is a naturally bigger strongr fighter, who has never been subbed and has great kickboxing and shields dominated him. jake shields is an excellent figher and should not be taking all the heat he has for the miller fight.
and yes i know how HOT he is. :)
by bdw on Nov 9, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To get paid the big money.
You should send an email to his financial manager with this advice.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
I don’t really care. Jake can do what he wants and if any of his management hasn’t figured this out then they shouldn’t be in management.
I found the fight somewhat entertaining. Especially the choke. Just not 30 mins of it. I did end up checking OU/Nebraska more than a few times. BJJ or wrestling need to have a good announcers to make it palatable for the masses. The only time wrestling is on TV is during the Olympics and even then it rarely gets good coverage. I really want to see numbers on strikes thrown.
by natyong on Nov 9, 2009 1:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For the record, Jake Shields is managed by his father. Or at least he was last time I looked into it.
by pdl on Nov 9, 2009 1:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
You just brought back a rush of EliteXC memories. I was trying to permanently forget many of these memories, but I guess it’s okay cause a lot of long forgotten laughs were brought back, also.
by natyong on Nov 9, 2009 1:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh wait I was thinking of Noon for a minute there.
by natyong on Nov 9, 2009 1:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You seemed very concerned with how much money he makes. So much so that you recommend he abandon his strengths and probably lose fights, but lose them in exciting fashion.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
* looks out the window *
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Works in the UFC! Works ANYWHERE there are fight bonuses that far outweigh fight purse “bonuses” paid in views.
@mythbuster – I guess you could see it that way. Not how I was looking at it though. Is it that big of a deal for him to try and develop a bit of ground and pound? Damian Maia and the UFC do a very good job of marketing Maia’s in my opinion can Jake do the same?
I mainly suggest he stop because the days of one dimensional fighters are over or very close to being over. To think using only his current strengths he will be able to finish Lindland, Jacare, or Dan Henderson is not prudent.
Shields had finished fights in the past. By controlling/humping them to death that they just lose the will to fight. To me that’s more of a dominating statement than a KO, as it’s the breaking of a man’s will. Often times it’s awkward to watch.
some other ther fighters in this category in my opinion are lay and prayers, Tim Silvia, Lennox Lewis, Klitsckos, who jab the fight right out of their opponents.
You can prosper on this style as long as your the clear underdog, but prepared to be hated when you aren’t.
by natyong on Nov 10, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So if you were striking and the person was getting hit over and over and people boo’ed i guess it would be time to go to the ground even if you aren’t good there?
by DirtyML on Nov 9, 2009 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats not the point I was trying to make … and dont get me wrong I like ground fighting, i like watching it. Fuck if I was ever a pro fighter that would probably be my first option. But he seemed to go in there with a plan A … and thats it. Keep doing it over and over no matter how the fight goes. Id be curious to see what would happen if his takedowns got stuffed over and over for the first two rounds.
Ill give him credit for fighting to his strengths, but he is lucky he fighting where he is.
The era of the one dimensional fighters has ended … and anyone with a good takedown defense will make Shield their bitch. He looked scared for the few seconds there was stand up and clinged onto Millers legs.
Good werstlers in the UFC like Fitch and Kos would rape him (I know Kos said Shileds is a beast in practice). Alves would do to him what he did to Kos.
And lets not even bring up what GSP would likely do to him.
Bah … and I just dont like the guy.
by Sauce on Nov 9, 2009 12:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope ...
Hendo signs with SF and takes on Shields for the title. Ill predict a 2nd round KO … at the latest.
by Sauce on Nov 9, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Beatdown crew
gave me hope. Jacare a true MMA Jiu Jitsu matchup. Lindland a good wrestler with a glaringly brittle chin and of course the big maybe and my personal favorite fighter Hendo.
It’s truth time for Shields.
by natyong on Nov 9, 2009 1:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t get the hate for him either. Granted I was five or six deep by the time he fought.
Anyway, I think Rome made reference to this in another piece or in a comment, but Strikeforce made a huge mistake putting this fight on the card. Everything pointed to this fight going the distance in the fashion that it did, and it did not make for exciting television, regardless of your tolerance for grueling grappling exhibitions. If they were trying to piggy back marketing Shields with Fedor, it backfired hard.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Nov 8, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was more trying to piggyback Fedor off some of Mayhem’s MTV fame.
by gzl5000 on Nov 8, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would buy that if they did anything to try to tell anyone that Mayhem was on this card, but they didn’t.
by Phildo on Nov 8, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holy hell did the live crowd hate him. Just SO much. I finally watched the TV recording and the crowd noise didn’t come through at all. The cheers for Fedor the entire fight were deafening and the boos for Shields were the next loudest reactions of the night.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 8, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shields didn’t Lay N Pray Miller..
He just wasn’t able to finish a very calm and durable guy in Miller, so it resulted on him laying on mayhem for 25 mins..
not Lay N Pray, but he did lie down on him and did minimal damage, so i get why the casuals started booing. They wanted the bully beatdown host to win, and it was obvious that he had the advantage standing, but the fans got frustrated when Jake controlled him for most of the fight.
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 8, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shields had mount and/or Miller’s back in every round. It seems to me that there is an inherent contradiction in simultaneously believing that Miller is a great fighter and criticizing Shields for not finishing him.
by Jahbulon on Nov 8, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
shields never came close to finishing and miller was only seconds away from making jake go to sleep… otherwise, shields won the snuggling contest.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Nov 9, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know that for a fact?
I’m finding it more and more annoying that Miller fans somehow see the future.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what? shields wasn't about to sleep?
are you delusional?
even jake said the choke was really tight, but he knew he could’ve held on till the bell rang.
I’m not trying to take anything from jake, he won, and he dominated the fight.. but he was close to being finished at the third round.
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 9, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t know Shields said that. I was going by everyone else. During the fight, some people said it looked deep and some said it didn’t look deep – and for Miller fans that was enough to claim that he was nearly dead. If Shields said that afterwards, than there we go.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not a fan of either guy but that choke looked pretty deep to me.
by ufc4 on Nov 9, 2009 8:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
did anyone else think shields was tapping? Im pretty sure in the commentary they said “is he tapping?” I dont really remember, I was a few beers deep. If anyone has a gif of that please post it.
by ryanwk628 on Nov 9, 2009 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I heard that too
But I saw nothing on the replay to suggest Shields was even close to tapping. It really sounded like the ref was telling Mayhem that Shields didn’t tap, that it was the end of the round.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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by funnytiger on Nov 9, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
was that directed to me? cause I didn’t criticize Shields.. I also didn’t say miller was great. I said he was calm and durable.
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 9, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You said Shields wasn’t laying and praying, and I was agreeing with you.
by Jahbulon on Nov 9, 2009 1:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought some of the rounds were a pretty good showing of a BJJ clinic. The last round and one other one were pretty boring with shields keeping miller pressed to the cage with his legs wrapped up. Mny of the other rounds were pretty excellent watching shield take position and miller defends and escape, like the round where miller almost got in a “banana split”. If Miller would have had 20 more seconds in round 4 i think when he had the rear naked choke he would have won and everyone would be talking about the big upset. That was the only time either of them were in any real danger.
by YoungGun on Nov 9, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would give my input on the Shields/Miller fight if I hadn’t fallen asleep – seriously, I woke up right before Fedor and Rogers got started.
by MMAEruption on Nov 8, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Casual fans and many “so-called” MMA fans are just SO ignorant to the ground game. You can also blame Shields for playing the position game all night and the match-maker for not realizing that the fight would likely be a 25-minute grappling contest and turns some “fans” off.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Nov 8, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shields didn’t lay n pray, he took down and held…
by Reaser16 on Nov 9, 2009 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To the casual fan, he was boring
You can explain in minute detail for hours the technical brilliance of his strategy and execution, but it LOOKED boring. And you can’t explain that away. It looked boring.
"I would approve signing a pitcher that ate kitten tacos if he won 20 games a year." -BPinOK
by duck on Nov 9, 2009 7:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I used to be high on Gus, mostly for his potential to add a legitimate voice to MMA broadcasting. But 6 or 7 (or however many shows) cards in, I’m done with him. I thought he was absolutely garbage last night. Specifically, making a reference to Shields “holding his breath” to prevent his lights being turned off by the RNC is so fundamentally bad. Mike Goldberg would never make a mistake of that level in his worst efforts.
Gus sounds uncomfortable doing the fights because I’m sure he’s aware he doesn’t have a real solid grip on the sport. I still believe if he understood the action in front of him, he’d be fine, but with his commitment to other traditional sports, I don’t see this improving to the point where I’ll enjoy seeing him on the telecast.
A lot of people hate on Mauro, but I think he’s all right, and I’d rather him and Frank call the fights (with Quadros or something) on their own.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Nov 8, 2009 10:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
change your site? sackgus.com?
Goldie and Rogan does have times where they really suck and piss me off, but they’re better than Gus and mr. Sudoku.
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 9, 2009 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The event starting at 9pm on the West Coast didn’t help.
by steveoc24 on Nov 8, 2009 10:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
this…so many of my friends I tried to get to watch it and even had a few excited to see Fedor for the first time, then they all saw the result on ABC/ESPN’s bottom line ticker and one saw the result on espn.com and basically didn’t want to watch something in which they already knew what happened…
by Reaser16 on Nov 9, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sakoju!
Ugh I hated Gus Johnson throughout the whole program. Not letting Fedor talk like that at the end was wack. Shields looked soo uneasy on his feet. Whoever wrote that fight might be the bore of the night was completely right.
Why can’t they get Bas?
And cutting the entrances like that for the MAIN EVENT?! For what commercial obligations? I hated the production on this.
by MSEMCEE on Nov 8, 2009 10:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I've said it already...
but I’ll say it again. The Fedor walk in was AMAZING.
The crowd was SO fucking loud. Just AMAZINGLY loud for the walk in. Everyone was on their feet. You couldn’t even hear the music they were trying to blast out for the walk-in. Clay Guida was jumping up and down on a chair with his camera in the air trying to record the walk in. It was an amazing atmosphere. It’s a shame they couldn’t get the entrance in.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 8, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here ya go
Courtesy of Fenix
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/11/8/1121973/fedors-strikeforce-entrance-that
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 8, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The quality of the M1 feed (which we got for the British broadcast) was terrible for some reason, it looked and sounded very compressed, like it had gone through a late 80s filter or something. Shame because it took all the oomph out of Fedor’s entrance.
Their commentary team was OK though.
by An0nymous on Nov 8, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
It was one of the most electric atmospheres I’ve ever seen at a live fight. I really wonder why they wouldn’t show Fedor’s entrance.
by filipinomix2oo0 on Nov 9, 2009 1:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OMG the commercial break before the main event was horribly looooong there were like 2-3 cut back to the show that went immediately back to commercial and it lasted over 10 mins. I kept flipping to SpikeTV and back and I think I basically watched the entire Couture v Nog fight while waiting for Fedor v Rogers to start.
by YoungGun on Nov 9, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is the instant rating analysis the best way to rate the success of the show?
It was a great showing for Strikeforce and seems like a catalysts to build viewership from.
by bignerd on Nov 8, 2009 10:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the instant rating analysis
determines whether or not there will be another Strikeforce show on CBS. If the ratings aren’t there, Strikeforce won’t be back. And the CBS execs will be looking at the instant rating analysis tomorrow morning to make their decisions.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Nov 8, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see that
One quality showing typically will buy you another. TV executives are not so short sighted. Early reports indicated they seemed pleased with the ability to sell commercial space for the show.
by bignerd on Nov 8, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This was just television spin from execs trying to sell it as a success before it happened. They do this all the time. Being thrilled that they sold all the ad spots for a show is a pretty low benchmark.
I think they will be back but only with Gina and Fedor combined.
by Michael Rome on Nov 8, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"TV executives are not so short sighted."
ummm, yes they are.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Nov 8, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
this, some of my favorite shows ever, which had good to great ratings even, didn’t have great enough ratings and were canceled or put on friday nights to die a quick ratings death…
by Reaser16 on Nov 9, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Arrested Development
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nothing wrong with Firefly. :)
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 9, 2009 2:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I second this!
Although I really like Nathan Fillion’s new show Castle… :)
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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by funnytiger on Nov 9, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What’s killing them is the overall rating… coming in last place with a first run special/original just doesnt do it on network TV. If they could have produced around a 5 million average and kept the demo gains that would have been golden.
CBS averages 6.2 million viewers in that time slot with reruns so losing that many viewers is unacceptable for the demo gains. That’s what niche cable TV is for not network TV.
Secondly NOT promoting the brand and creating a “generic” version of UFC is a horrible idea. It’s like UFC programming on CBS without Zuffa having to make a bad deal.
Come on… some distinction and beneficial differentiation… it’s not like they’re on some obscure channel – they are on CBS and have the proverbial podium for god sakes.
by mmalogic on Nov 9, 2009 7:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to hate, but, Gus Johnson has absolutely no business commentating MMA. He was REALLY bad last night. I honestly hope he is replaced. Renallo is enthusiastic at least. And Frank Shamrock may have prounounced a name wrong, but he provides credible analysis.
The post-fight interview with Emelianenko was cringe worthy. Truly bad.
"Mindwarp earthlings seek to change our path" - Nick Blinko
by Skoobs on Nov 8, 2009 11:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
I liked the guys from Friday nights Strikeforce on showtime. Rogan and Goldberg are still my faves, but the friday night guys would be great on the CBS shows.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 8, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What, which one is which...
because the douche white guy with the glasses was extremely annoying. The other guys, not so much.
by Razreshat on Nov 9, 2009 8:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gus j
for whatever reason, i have no problem with gus johnson. and i’m usually quick to criticize the commentators. not going to try and dissect his performance. just going on the record that not everyone couldn’t stand him.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
by GregS123 on Nov 8, 2009 11:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
They should make all efforts to get Gina on every CBS show from here on out and set her up only with opponents that are moving up a weight class for it
by HighNoon on Nov 8, 2009 11:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Are you being serious, or sarcastic?
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 8, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it was sarcastic
It’s still a good point. Women’s MMA can be sold to young males. It just takes pretty faces (Gina) and somewhat competitive fights. Get great fighters that look like slick fighters to come up and weight and lose. Sounds like a really got plan to me.
It’s not like she has a belt to win. The hardcores are appeased with male fights and get to continue seeing fights on network TV. Wait, something is wrong with my last statement…oh yah, the hardcores will never be appeased.
by natyong on Nov 9, 2009 12:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow...
It’s 1am and I’m tired, so there’s a good chance I am misunderstanding you.
Did you just say that it would be a good idea for them to rig fights so that Gina can win in order to sell tickets?
please tell me I’m tired and misread that.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 1:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not how I am understanding it. Just booking squash matches for her.
by VegasBatman on Nov 9, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gina doesn’t take criticism very well and she will be called out for fighting small fighters.
by MMAGuard on Nov 9, 2009 8:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Same thing?
isn’t that what EliteXC did for Kimbo and got so much (deserved) heat for?
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, EXC put those fights in their Main Event and...
acted like Kimbo was the best fighter in the entire damn world.
by Razreshat on Nov 9, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes but he’s recommending they put Gina on the main card and act like she is the best female fighter in the entire damn world.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
…………………………………….Fox………..ABC…….CBS……..NBC
Adults 18-49: Rating/Share…….1.7/5…….1.5/5…….1.4/5…….1.0/3
Total Viewers (million)……………5.24……..5.05……..3.94……..4.53
by Jahbulon on Nov 8, 2009 11:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Two reasons not to jump to many conclusions about the ratings yet:
a) These are overnights. Finals come out tuesday.
b) Fedor/Rogers isn’t included in these ratings.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Nov 8, 2009 11:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You can still easily compare to the overnights from the Kimbo fights that did not include overruns. The overrun was short, at best it will push this number up to like 2.5.
by Michael Rome on Nov 8, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s so blatantly obvious how much more of a star Gina is compared to everyone else on Strikeforce’s roster. Which makes the fact that she’s not paid what she’s worth that much more ridiculous.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 8, 2009 11:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
“worth”?
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As in her drawing power. So much of MMA is also about marketing and being a draw. People want to see Gina fight more so than most fighters. She should be compensated as such.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 9, 2009 2:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
She can also fight too. Unlike Kimbo who is all celebrity, no substance.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 9, 2009 2:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sure she can fight, against much smaller opponents. We learned that when she faced a real opponent.
Look, I like Gina, she’s pretty and seems sweet.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL at you hypocrites!
Gina gets so much flake for fighting 135’ers. However, when Erin or Cyborg does it they get praised for how great they are. Truth be told, There are hardly any competition in WMMA and a lot of women fight below or out of their weight classes. Lets stop being ignorant.
by MMAGuard on Nov 9, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gina lost to a fighter that many women will loose to. I see many haters are using it as an excuse to say that Gina was “exposed.”
by MMAGuard on Nov 9, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The only term more overused than “exposed” and “lay and pray” is “hater”.
Congrats!
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah yes
The old Marketability vs Skill dilemma. Vince McMahon solved that one already.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, unfortunately for her, she has virtually no where else to go. She’s not going to Zuffa. She’s not going to Japan. She’s not going to fight the regional circuit. Her only leverage is to threaten to go Rampage on Strikeforce instead of fighting.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Nov 9, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That plan could work for her though. She has the looks that could keep her bouncing around Hollywood for at least a few years.
I wouldn’t really hold the Gladiators failure against her, that was a bad show.
by Phildo on Nov 9, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s alot easier to supplement and leave 120k a fight going hollywood than Rampage supplementing millions – especially since she has more potential in that field.
Gina is worth around 500k a fight at this point and I dont see her coming back unless there’s some serious money.
“Triple X part 4” starring rampage jackson… coming to a video store near you.
by mmalogic on Nov 9, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So...
Was Strikeforce able to finally make Fedor a star/draw in the U.S?
by chrisbboy82 on Nov 9, 2009 12:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
They didn’t need Gina, they just needed a co-main event that wasn’t awful to fans that did not understand the underlying debate between Shields and Miller on their personal jiu-jitsu training.
I found it to be an exciting match purely due to the fact that Mayhem thought his BJJ and wrestling would be superior, to see him eat crow to a slow orthodox supremacy of wrestling and jiu-jitsu made me laugh in glee.
I knew Shields would win, perhaps not by flying toe hold as I stated, but I knew he had the game to win.
To say that the anomaly of Gina’s few forays into televised promotions leads anything to her personal popularity is ridiculous,
She beat the crap out of Kelly Kobald, if it was GSP vs Yoshida I’m sure they would have given similar press coverage if GSP had gorgeous breasts, she also headlined a card in which she was beaten like an amateur vs Cyborg.
People always seem to use her as one of the few positive excuses for the success of a non-UFC promotion, but let’s face the facts she is a top ten female fighter that will never be top three, and if she was not good looking, nobody would care.
by DirtyML on Nov 9, 2009 12:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
if GSP had gorgeous breasts
Are you saying he doesn’t?
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Nov 9, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I love the subliminal Canadian Flag then the nipple twist.
Keep firing Assholes!
I am the King of Rome, and am above grammar. -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor
by Ubernoober on Nov 9, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
She’s ranked top 3 in her class based on fightergirls.com rankings. She can beat good competition.
Also, Gina vs. Kelly and Gina vs. Kailtin had over 12 million viewers combined. Both fights were ranked in the top 10 most watched fights in MMA.
by MMAGuard on Nov 9, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A) Add Miller to those that are losers. It was seen as a dull fight and he had maybe two minutes of offense.
B) Pacing was not very good. We lost the main event walk-ins because they fell behind with ads.
by Lynchman on Nov 9, 2009 12:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
At least they didn’t have any skeleton segments.
Rec’d to a billion
by VegasBatman on Nov 9, 2009 12:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You know, all this makes me realize that I do not understand how it is that a fighter becomes popular.
I have no idea how it was that Youtube videos of grainy, ugly backyard fights made Kimbo the most-watched fighter in MMA history. I don’t know what it was that made Gina Carano so famous all the of the sudden; it seemed like she was famous before American Gladiators, even, and that show got canceled anyway. But somehow she’s a huge deal that attracts tons of media coverage, seemingly out of the blue. She was famous before she ever fought on national TV.
For that matter, I don’t know why Anderson Silva isn’t mega-popular, but GSP apparently is. Why should a tight-trunks-wearing French-Canadian wrestler, who’s style is a million miles from the crowd-pleasing ethos of “stand and bang,” be so much more popular than a dominant Brazilian knockout artist? Both are very charismatic. Both are foreign and speak heavily accented English. America has no problem with black sports stars. So what gives?
I don’t think I’ll ever quite get it.
by JRN on Nov 9, 2009 12:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The power of testosterone
UT (Texas) fan and I love how often times Colt McCoy’s hot girlfriend can do better than he does in internet search trends.
Silva doesn’t speak English. GSP will always have a word for the camera. The ladies love him cause he’s kinda French, slightly goofy and for the most part available.
by natyong on Nov 9, 2009 1:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Something about him trips a tiny part of my gaydar, though. Have we seen GSP with a lady outside of UFC afterparties?
by Hesperus on Nov 9, 2009 2:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s all pretty obvious to me. It’s about charisma, an ability to connect with the audience. It’s easy to tell right away if someone has it.
Gina wasn’t famous “all of a sudden.” She was in the first female fight on Showtime, had a lot of hype on the internet, and was very good looking. Then she tore the house down with the fight of the night and it was off to the races from there.
With St. Pierre, the night he turned into a star was when he got down on his knees and asked the UFC for a second title shot. Compare this to Anderson’s aloof attitude after dull performances and you get an idea of why one guy is a star and the other isn’t. Also, St. Pierre’s english blows away Silva’s.
I’m surprised you don’t get this.
by Michael Rome on Nov 9, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gina wasn’t famous "all of a sudden." She was in the first female fight on Showtime…
But wasn’t she already heavily hyped by the time she fought on Showtime? And isn’t it a truism that fighting on Showtime doesn’t mean much in terms of mainstream visibility? I’m sure having a good fight helped her, but there are plenty of fighters who have great fights on big shows without a major bump in popularity or drawing power.
It’s clearly a combination of factors. But how those factors combine for different people at different times—I just can’t pinpoint it. I don’t see what unites Gina Carano, Kimbo Slice, Georges St. Pierre, and Tito Ortiz in the popular imagination. Can it really come down to a single post-fight interview, or body language after a victory? And if so, how and why does that work?
Just where does “ability to connect with an audience” come from?
by JRN on Nov 9, 2009 1:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the reason is accessibility. Some fighters may start off with people being interested in only one dimension: Kimbo’s youtube fights were something people really hadn’t seen before, at least not in a mass audience type of way. His videos were blowing up the Internet right when youtube really caught on fire. Or Gina, where she’s the hot chick that can beat people up. But one factor may lead to others, and people realize that hey, Kimbo is a pretty cool guy, just trying to make a buck and Gina is an outgoing, personable and talented woman in a male dominated sport. People can relate to these fighters. They’re accessible.
Then you have guys like Tito who, to his credit, was able to market himself quite well in the early years, a self-made man almost. As for GSP and Silva, well, GSP seems genuinely thankful for his success and humble, always ready to praise an opponent after winning. He also speaks good English and he’s very open about his fears and short comings, something most fighters aren’t honest about. I also dispute your assertion that GSP’s style is far from crowdpleasing: he always goes for the finish. I think fans appreciate that. Silva on the other hand seems very aloof about fan response and he throws tantrums when he doesn’t get his way, at the expense of the PPV buying public.
I really don’t see how this is a mystery. Some people just have “IT.” Gina, Kimbo, GSP, BROCKLESNAR – they all have it. Silva, Shields, Okami, etc. just don’t. If this “it” factor could be replicated so easily, everyone would be a star.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 9, 2009 2:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Never underestimate the power of a good accent.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Nov 9, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well carano is hot so theres your reason
i like GSP Silva good to ther eboth great one is jus tmore well known then the other
Twitter @mikemazzacare
by MaZZacare on Nov 9, 2009 2:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For GSP...
I think a lot of his success also has to do with the fact that he accomplished what he did in the UFC WW division. Not only is it full of beasts but many of the top 10 are charismatic, fighters that fans love or love to hate.
You simply can’t fight people like BJ and Hughes without getting a little star power rubbed off on you. And we all know that GSP did more than just fight them.
Simply put, if you were a fan of anyone in the WW division you were pretty compelled to join the GSP bandwagon after what he did to them; and the WW division has a lot of fans.
by ruckus on Nov 9, 2009 6:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When you look at fighters and experience who they are you have to look at them like a casting agent to see the potential. Since everyone has been brought up and raised by TV we look at people and categorize them if they were in a movie or show.
GSP is a Vandamme
Lyoto is a Ryu or The lead martial artist in the karate movies we used to see.
Anderson comes off as an extra henchmen type or the bad guy the hero has to beat at the end of the movie..
Fedor looks like the fat guy behind the counter where the lead actor is buying a pretzel.
The closer a fighter can get to being viewed as a “lead” character in a movie the more potential they have.
Without talking about acting skills and just looking at their character can you see them as a “lead” in a movie? Can they be a supporting character? or just an extra? Those are the most important questions in regards to potential (besides the physical abilities).
What trumps all of this though is what experience the fighter actually gives the viewer plus REPETITION. Any lack of star potential can be overcome with these 2 factors (quality of experience delivered and repetition of delivery)
The hard core fans have had many “experiences” with fedor. They go way back. To ask or to expect some new fan to view Fedor in the same or similar light just doesnt work.
And if the experience and repetition occurs in big fights (where endorphins of the viewer are most released) you multiply the effect of that “experience”.
The thing is ANYONE can end up being a star… it’s just a matter of how much quality of “experience” that needs to be delivered and the repetition (how many times it needs to be delivered)… this differs from fighter to fighter and what usually determines it is the potential (the answers to the questions I posed above regarding the “casting” of a fighter).
So here’s crude version of the entire formula:
Potential (like casting spot) x quality of experiences delivered by the fighter x placement on the card (main, co, undercard) x repetition (amount of times the experiences are delivered) x impressions (number of viewers per experience) x the amount of prestige the fighters division has = THE FIGHTERS STAR RATING.
Definition of experience delivered = verbal and physical performances of the fighter in and outside of the cage.
If you lack in one factor you have to make it up in another… If you excel in one factor you need less of the others… each factor carries different weights and each factor comes with a compounding effect.
by mmalogic on Nov 9, 2009 8:40 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
wins and losses means little in this business… the experience you deliver, how many times you deliver it, on what level of stage and to how many eyeballs means EVERYTHING.
by mmalogic on Nov 9, 2009 8:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I expect Anderson got quite a bit after clowning Forrest.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Nov 9, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anderson can string together a sentence in english from time to time.
GSP can hold a fluent conversation. Also, GSP doesn’t really have that much of an accent, anglos in Montreal kind of sound like him.
Keep firing Assholes!
I am the King of Rome, and am above grammar. -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor
by Ubernoober on Nov 9, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GSP has a sexy accent, Anderson sounds like a brazillian Mike Tyson.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Nov 9, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the day fedor loses will be the day they will need to institute a super heavy weight class in mma…
by pandaboy99 on Nov 9, 2009 2:53 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It’s nice they were paid their “show” money
There was nothing ‘nice’ about it.
Strikeforce had no choice. The athletic commission controls all of the show purses. Davis & Miller can thank the SAC for paying them their show money. Strikeforce/M-1/CBS paid them nothing voluntarily. They only got paid because the SAC holds the show purses in escrow.
Strikeforce deserves a HUGE black eye for what went down with Davis & Miller. Not only did those guys lose the opportunity to fight and earn their win bonuses, they also lost sponsorship income and all the time/money they spent training has gone to waste.
by Steve4192 on Nov 9, 2009 6:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Don't think Carano will be returning
I doubt that Gina will be coming back to the cage. She already has a huge movie deal coming up and if it does well, than bye bye Carano.
Can’t really blame her for leaving, especially since so many people talk shit about her and try to tarnish her fighting abilities based on one bad night in the cage.
by MMAGuard on Nov 9, 2009 9:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you MMAGuard
If Gina’s movie does well and movie execs want her in more movies, it’ll be harder for Gina to come back. I honestly think she wants to come back and go out on a better note though.
She still is an athlete at heart and wants to prove herself. Her pride was bruised big time so I’m sure she’s not completely done. Her silence makes for good speculation.
Gina has that IT factor, it’s hard to explain.
by TruthbeSpoken on Nov 9, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t really blame her for leaving, especially since so many people talk shit about her and try to tarnish her fighting abilities based on one bad night in the cage.
Dude, are you part of mgmt team or something?!? nobody is questioning her skills, she just got beat by a better fighter in the biggest match of her life. And please stop w/the “bad night” ecxuse, she could fight Cyborg 10 times and she would lose 10 times.
"Let's kick some names and take some a$$"
by StayGoldLikeFlair on Nov 9, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Frank Shamrock trying to say Sokoudjou was the highlight of the broadcast.
I’d literally just watched Sengoku XI, so I’d already heard Guy Mezger stumble through a bunch of Japanese names, but Frank took it to a whole new level.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Nov 9, 2009 1:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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