UPDATED: What Happened to Mark Miller vs. Deray Davis?
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 9, 2009 4:05 PM EST
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During the undercard portion of Saturday's Strikeforce show the Mark Miller v. Deray Davis fight was skipped over from it's scheduled slot to make sure the women's bout would have adequate time to get in before the start of the CBS broadcast. The ladies only took a few minutes to get their fight taken care of and there were thirty minutes left before the show went live. Still, the Miller/Davis fight didn't happen. We were told in the media section that the fight was going to be moved to after the main event. I'm not sure who provided that update but it was passed around from media member to media member.
After the post-Fedor madness cleared from the cage we were told to get upstairs for the press conference and it was clear that the Miller/Davis fight wasn't taking place. I tried to ask the few executives I saw walking around for the story and no one seemed to know.
However I have since found the following from Chicago Now:
Mark Miller vs Deray Davis was canceled by fight organizers due to lack of time. A real un-cool decision. Both fighters prepared for this evening and were told with no advance noticed what-so-ever. At the moment they would be walking out on the floor for their match, Miller and Davis were informed that they were canceled! Fighters stood stand-by in shock trying to understand how this became their evening's destiny.
As impressed as I was overall by how smoothly things seemed to run from the Strikeforce side, how the hell does this happen? Two hometown guys have been put through a training camp, all the mental and physical preparation, the weight cut only to be told seconds before walking out to the cage that the fight is canceled. It's a massive ball drop, especially considering that the Jeff Curran / Dustin Neace and Marloes Coenen / Roxanne Modafferi fights both ended in under three minutes. It isn't as though every fight went to the judges and time just became completely unavailable.
I'm sure Strikeforce paid both guys, but fighters want to fight and it's a real shame that Strikeforce fell down so badly on this contest.
UPDATE by Brent Brookhouse:
As posted in the comments as well as this fanshot by Scott Haber it appears both men were paid their contracted "show" money but no win bonus as well as no opportunity for other bonuses. Also, one of the men reportedly lost all sponsorship money since he was never out in front of the crowd to fulfill his side of the contract.
I have requested a response from Strikeforce. Here is an excerpt from said request:
Does Strikeforce wish to issue a statement to BloodyElbow to the following questions?
- What does Strikeforce feel are it's obligations as a promoter to afford the fighters the opportunity to fight for their contracted win bonus?
- How did the show hit the point where when two undercard bouts ended in under 2 minutes and a third ended in the second round that there was no room for one of the scheduled bouts?
- What responsibility does the promotion take in the damaging hit to the livelihoods of these fighters as well as the professional toll taken on them? These men were put through training camps, gathered sponsorship contracts and then were not given the opportunity to compete.
- Why did the bout not take place when there were 30+ minutes left prior to the start of the CBS broadcast and no other remaining preliminary bouts?
Updates to follow as available. Stay tuned.
Update 2 By Brent Brookhouse:
ULTMMA pointed us back to their site via this fanpost which covers a discussion they had with Mark Miller's management. The highlight:
From a email with Oren Hodak of KO reps
"He (Mark Miller) obviously wanted to fight. I can't charge his sponsor since he didn't actually fight. We will try and transfer most of them to his next fight. One problem is that 2 of the sponsors were Chicago based, hopefully they will still support his next bout.
Strikeforce did pay him his 'show' money, but they still took out the 'corner man fee'."
Strikeforce still has not replied to my request for a statement and I will be following up with a phone call shortly.
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That's pretty unprofessional
They could’ve had them fight after the other prelims and then aired it in case something went too short. Even though the latter is pretty unlikely with Werdum and Miller on the card.
In addition to the Davis-Miller cancellation, CBS once again showed they have no idea how to manage the pacing of an MMA event to keep it within it’s timeslot. They had massive problems on this front with EliteXC and last night was more of the same.
It is already a struggle to get affiliates to show MMA live rather than pre-empting it for syndicated programming such as ‘Legend of the Seeker’, and blowing past their time slot once again won’t make anything easier. I guarantee that CBS is going to have some very unhappy affiliates this morning. They absolutely HATE it when they have to delay their local news shows.
Online fabnboys like to talk about how crappy the UFCs production is, but they miss the forest for the tres. Hate on the Gladiator and the mist boxing all you like, there is still no one in the industry who comes anywhere near them when it comes to getting the basics right … basics like ending within your time slot.
Everyone I’ve seen is praising Strikeforce for their show last night. I’d like to see how this changes it.
By straight up cancelling their fight? That shows a complete lack of class on Coker’s part.
I thought they did a pretty good job with pacing but this crap does suck. I wonder if this was a CBS decision (they blew their side of the show pretty badly last night) or a Strikeforce decision?
I thought they did a pretty good job with pacing
Seriously?
They only had four fights in two-and-half hours, canceled a prelim bout because they were worried about getting the show started on time, and ran way over their time slot. How is that doing a good job with their pacing?
They always have run over their timeslot, I think they plan it that way for some reason. I wasn’t planning on seeing the main event before the over-run so that didn’t surprise me at all. The only real drag was between the Shields fight and the Fedor fight but then there always seems to be a drag before main events that is pretty common for events too. Having the title fight is why they could only have 4 fights on the broadcast, we knew that going in. Now cancelling this fight is unacceptable as far as time management goes but then it wasn’t part of the broadcast so I didn’t notice it last night.
They always have run over their timeslot, I think they plan it that way for some reason
LOL
No they don’t.
Running over timeslot creates massive headaches for affiliate stations, who then share those headaches with CBS corporate. EliteXC got taken to task big time for not keeping their broadcasts within their slot, and I suspect Strikeforce will also face the wrath of the CBS front office suits.
All three EliteXC shows ran over, heck those over-runs were the best ratings for every show and the part that CBS always got excited about. Kimbo never fought on CBS where it wasn’t already past the time slot and in to the over-run and one of his fights on CBS didn’t even last 2 minutes. The affiliates were grouchy about the events before they even happened because they knew they were going to run over their timeslots, it was expected beforehand.
I think the bigger issue here is HOW MUCH CONTROL DOES Coker HAVE?
This is why Dana isn’t on broadcast TV.
We all know Coker is a stand up guy, he wouldn’t do this kind of thing. I think Dana might be right, Showtime and CBS are running Strikeforce when they are on their networks.
If Illinois is like every other athletic commission then the show purse is guaranteed regardless of what happens. Obviously someone missed out on a win bonus there though, not to mention the fact that they didn’t get to showcase their talents on the card.
Hopefully Coker did what the UFC has done in the past when stuff like this happens … paid both guys their win bonus.
They should take it out of Frank Shamrock’s salary because he sure didn’t do anything worth getting paid for during the event.
Speaking of the broadcast team, was it just me or was Mauro remarkably subdued last night (by his standards)? No horrific puns, no penis jokes, very little over the top cheerleading.
I actually found that he kind of blended into the background, which was a welcome change from the norm.
I think this deserves a loud and proud "Fuck You" to the organizers.
Sure, they got paid without putting their bodies on the line, but they also failed to get the chance impress. Maybe they would have had a war, or highlight-reel finish – that’s bonus money. That’s a raise in salary. That’s the bigger leagues calling them when the SF contract is up. All gone.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Nov 8, 2009 1:33 PM EST reply actions
Bad news from the UG
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They got only their show money.
One of them lost all of his sponsorship money cause the fight didnt happen.
SF kept the win purse for both guys.
That's all sorts of shitty.
I’d like to know what sponsors refused to pay. There are certain companies that just don’t give a shit about fighters and see them as nothing but billboards, and others who will go above and beyond to make sure the athletes are treated as family. It would be nice to start building a record of which sponsors do this so we can temper our spending accordingly.
by pdl on Nov 8, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
While I agree this sucks for the fighters you have to look at this from the sponsors point of view as well- they aren’t running charities, they gave that fighter a certain amount of money expecting to get something back in return, that didn’t happen and it’s nobodies fault other than Strikeforce.
by ufc4 on Nov 8, 2009 9:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Right...
the fighters ARE billboards for these companies.
The time was there for the fight to happen before the CBS broadcast. Or it could have happened after the main event.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 8, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
I'm aware of this.
The sponsors had no legal or contractual obligation to pay either of them. That said, there are certain sponsors who continue to pay athletes even when not contractually obligated to in order to create good will, out of loyalty, for sympathy, or for representing the brand well outside of the cage. Maybe whichever guy didn’t get paid was a douche and their sponsors want to drop him anyways, I don’t know all the details. What I do know is that MMA is a tough way to make a living, and I hate to see sponsors not treating their athletes as well as they can.
Please see update to main post
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 8, 2009 9:19 PM EST reply actions
Where's Fenix and Supremacy?
I’m sure they have a good excuse why this is ok and a reason that it’s somehow all Dana White’s fault.
by ufc4 on Nov 8, 2009 9:41 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I don't really think that matters...
I only care about what Strikeforce has to say.
I deeply enjoy Strikeforce’s product and thought last night was a great card…but that doesn’t really excuse this particular aspect.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 8, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
People are always bashing the UFC’s treatment of fighter’s, but something like this would never happen in the UFC. Heck when Nover had a seizure they paid him and Stout show and win bonuses and that situation wasn’t even the UFC’s fault like Strikeforce canceling a fight right before the fighters are to walk out.
The exact (well, almost) same situation happened at UFC 100 with Fitch vs. Paulo Thiago. They didn’t want to run over the timeslot, so they had that fight after the main event.
They obviously couldn’t show Miller vs. Davis on CBS since they were already over their timeslot, but they could have just put them in the cage anyway. A lot of people might have left, but having the fight without a crowd is better than no fight at all.
People mistake UFC’s hard nosed buisness tactics to “treating fighters poorly”. When in reality they are driving a hard bargain with fighters and salaries. This is the type of shit that can be called treating fighters poorly.
by JaTinkles on Nov 9, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know there's little room for humor in a shitty situation like this...
But doesn’t it look like in that photo at the top they were both just told the fight was cancelled and then both look at Scott Coker like “Say whaaaa?”
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Nov 8, 2009 10:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Simple solution for Strikeforce to make up for this fiasco; let them keep their money and now put them on either the Nov 20 or Dec 19 shows.
I just wonder...
if they can make the same sponsorship money. Both guys were local so I’m sure some of their sponsorships depended on them fighting on this card.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 8, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Plus it doesn’t hurt to be on the same show as Fedor…the Nov 20 and Dec 19 won’t have the same hype.
Then guarantee them a spot on the Nov 20 tv broadcast.
by John Nash on Nov 9, 2009 2:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
What bothers me is o.k. fine they got their show money but it was probably only 2 or 3 k tops. Losing the sponser money is whats driving me crazy. Dana right now is laughing at SF cuz he has been saying this all along that its a small regional promotion trying to play in the big leagues. Coker should be doing more and if something like this happened in the UFC everyone would be asking for Dana’s head. I hope everyone doesn’t just let this slide becuz they have a soft spot in their hearts for SF and just get a little upset over this like I’ve been seeing. Your doing a great job Brent, I hope you keep the pressure on them about this.
This is gonna make guys happy to be on a SF undercard. The least they can do is pay them their bonuses and slot them in the dec show
by bigc4277 on Nov 8, 2009 11:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If they hadn’t lost their sponsorship money I’d say that paying them each 50% of the contracted win bonus would be fair since they didn’t actually “win” but also weren’t provided with the opportunity to. I mean, ideally you give them both the full bonus but…at least 50% is something.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 8, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
These are undercard fighters
Their win bonus couldn’t have been THAT much…maybe $30k? Strikeforce doesn’t have $30k to give to these guys after wasting months of their time having them train for nothing? That’s pathetic.
A quick fix would have been what the UFC did for Yoshida when Karo had to pull out last second. Hold the camera on the fighters for 30 seconds in between fights or something while they’re wearing their walkout shirts.
I have no idea what a contract between a sponsor and a fighter looks like, so it might not make a difference since there was no fight, but 30 seconds of the walkout shirt getting on CBS should be worth the same as a fight on the untelevised portion of the card.
I would be shocked if that 30 seconds of footage would have fulfilled their contractual obligation to a sponsor. The contracts that I’ve seen use the words “compete” or “fight.” And even though any sponsor would be ecstatic to have that 30 second spot on network TV, they still would not be forced to pay their fighter. Again, this is why I would like to know who did not get paid and by which sponsors. If it includes Tapout or Affliction, that’s effing shameful.
Thank You Brent
for being a real reporter and contacting them for a statement. so much better than a simple 500-word complaint buried under piles of fanposts.
by judonerd on Nov 9, 2009 3:14 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Mr. Brookhouse, sir, thank you for both an excellent article and making noise about a gigantic screwup.
This was, in the very literal sense of the word, a robbery – much more so than Rua-Machida or any other fight we’ve screamed our heads off about. Two fighters not only lost the chance to fight (which is what they’re in there for), they probably lost numerous chances to sign up to fight elsewhere – and one of them ended up losing their sponsorship money, which would’ve probably been quite a tidy sum, compared to what their show purses probably are.
Unless the community raises its collective voice about this, it might end up being a precedent. If Strikeforce gets away with this once, they might try to do it again – for whatever reason. This is below bush league, not something a promotion that’s aiming for respectability has any right to be doing. At the very least, Miller and Davis deserve their win bonuses – and a guaranteed TV slot.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Nov 9, 2009 5:40 AM EST reply actions
I wonder if this was a CBS decision as opposed to a Strikeforce decision? Coker has a good reputation in the sport and there was plenty of time for the bout to happen which makes me wonder if this was purely a tv production decision. CBS treating MMA as a entertainment event as opposed to a sporting event as far as production goes seems to generate a lot of issues with these shows, you have to wonder if that might be the case here too.
Way to keep on them Brent, maybe they will issue a response.
by who me on Nov 9, 2009 10:15 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Even if that were the case
I would still hope that Coker will pay these men their appearance fee, win bonus and the sponsorship money for the fighter who lost out on that. Not that he has an obligation to do so or anything, but it would be the right thing to do.
I agree completely but if it was a CBS decision then it should be CBS held to task. Either way it would be interesting to know just who made the decision to pull the plug on the match.
by who me on Nov 9, 2009 10:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
CBS probably played a role in choosing not to have the fight before the main card, but I seriously doubt they would have cared if the fight went off after the main event.
The UFC had the same problem with the Fitch-Thiago fight at UFC 100 and solved the problem by letting them fight after the main event. There is no reason Strikeforce could not have done the same. I suspect the reason Strikeforce chose not to hold it after the main event is because they didn’t want to risk losing coverage at the post-fight press conference. They were worried that the journalists wouldn’t stick around. That is an incredibly lame reason for screwing two fighters.
I am glad to see this issue not being lost within all the Fedor talk.
It’s good to see someone taking Strikeforce to task on this.
by joseph. on Nov 9, 2009 10:17 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
From the UG: (unconfirmed)
Just a tidbit: Both fighters were compensated and are promised the next availaible Strikforce match in which they will be paid again.
This bout was cancelled because it was forgotten. They forgot to make an announcement in the house, the TV people forgot and started tearing down, and with the crowd leaving and the work starting, they were kind of stuck.
Unfortunate to say the least.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 9, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply actions
I asked around at the show and got nothing but shrugs and somewhat annoyed looks. It’s…something to find out that they just forgot.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 9, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
how can they justify corner man fees if they didnt even fight? Thats a very dirty move. Please Brent rip them on this.
I want to get more details and find out Strikeforce’s side of things before I “rip” them. I think there may be more than we know right now and I want to know more details before I go to far with anything.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 9, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
im gonna +1 on the “rip them a new one”… but i appreciate your willingness to let them share thier version of things
And just to be clear...
I just don’t want to go nuts and have it come out that an agreement was made between fighters/promotion to take the show bonus with the agreement that they get a spot on the next card and an increased contract…etc. I’m not saying that is what happened (and in fact it sounds from Miller’s mgmt that it is not the case) however…there is a flow to these stories and I want to make sure that we’re staying within reason in how we treat it.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 9, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
yeah this is definitely needed as I too am awaiting a response from them. I had mentioned several times that Deray Davis’s lone amateur loss came at the hands of Rudy Bears and depending on the outcome of both of these fights, that could make for a good story on a challenger series card.
For the sake of Strikeforce, they need to at least offer these guys another chance to fight.
http://www.mmarecap.com
Attn Brent:
Fanpost with new information regarding the cancellation: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/11/9/1123369/more-from-miller-davis-aftermath
Keep firing Assholes!
I am the King of Rome, and am above grammar. -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor
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