Some Quick Thoughts on the Greatness of Fedor Emelianenko Before His Strikeforce Fight With Brett Rogers
Fedor Emelianenko could very well lose tonight and if he does it could be in utterly humiliating and devastating fashion. That is a very unlikely outcome of tonight's fight, but it is a very real possibility. Brett Rogers has demonstrated many times that he hits with sufficient power to knock out any man if he can connect square.
But regardless of what happens tonight, Fedor Emelianenko will remain the greatest heavyweight fighter in the history of MMA for the foreseeable future. Only one athlete has a comparable resume -- Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira -- and Fedor has beaten Nogueira convincingly twice.
But for those of you who were not watching Fedor through out his career I wanted to lay out a couple of things that will hopefully put his accomplishments in contest. And lay to rest any thoughts that Fedor's resume is reliant on having beaten a number of former UFC champs and freakshow opponents.
- Fedor rose to the top of, and thoroughly dominated the PRIDE heavyweight division from his entry in 2002 to the collapse of the organization in 2007. The PRIDE heavyweight division was by far the best ever assembled in MMA up to that time. Remember this was in an era when the UFC had enormous financial difficulties and had multiple champions walk away from the belt due to financial disputes. The PRIDE division was built off the back of the 2000 PRIDE open-weight Grand Prix which brought together many of the most highly regarded fighters of the day and did much to establish a clear pecking order in the division. Fedor didn't participate in the tournament, but he did beat the winner, Mark Coleman in 2004.
- Fedor emerged from Akira Maeda's RINGS organization, one of the key transitional organizations in the evolution of Japanese pro-wrestling into MMA. While RINGS was late to abandon "worked" matches (pre-determined outcomes), they practiced a very "stiff" form of pro-wrestling that incorporated many actual kickboxing and submission techniques. By the time Fedor began in RINGS they had gone to almost 100% "shoots" (actual sporting matches with no pre-determined outcome). RINGS is most important in MMA history for two reasons: 1) Maeda's recruitment of Volk Han, a Sambo master who brought a flood of Russian fighters along with him, including Fedor but also Mikhail Illioukhine and others; and, 2) the two mega King of Kings tournaments Maeda mounted in 1999 and 2000. Those tournaments brought together with the PRIDE Grand Prix of 2000 established a very firm pecking order for the heavyweight division by assembling most of the best fighters from Japan, America, Brazil, Holland and Russia and using the tournament format. Fedor would go on to beat the winner of the 2000 King of Kings tourny, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira.
- During his run at the top, Fedor has beaten exponents of all the major styles to so far dominate in MMA. He has beaten Olympic caliber wrestlers. He has beaten top K-1 kickboxers. He has beaten Olympic medal winning Judokas. He has beaten the best Brazilian Jiu Jitsu MMA fighter in the history of the game. He has beaten numerous former UFC champions. While he hasn't always fought the best and there will always be challenges remaining to be met, Fedor's run at the top has no equal in the history of the game.
There are flaws in Fedor's game. He has been rightfully criticized for sometimes fighting less than the most worthy opponents. He will not remain at the top indefinitely. But the buzz around him is for real. It's something he earned the hard way, by facing and beating a who's who of the best MMA fighters in the game at the time he fought them. We'll see if he can impress an American mass audience tonight.
A couple of other Fedor stories worth reviewing if you missed them:
11 recs |
69 comments
|
Comments
This myth of his greatness will end once he faces Herschel Walker.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 7, 2009 4:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
A lot of people say Fedor has to clean out the HW division, he did that. But when new younger heavyweights came they wanted him to beat everyone in the division again. And its just not gonna happen, unless he retires, If he tries to beat all the top heavyweights that there are now he will inevitably lose. And when he loses if he doesnt retire on top, people would say hes washed up and doesnt have it anymore.
by IRodC on Nov 7, 2009 4:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That a post like this even needed to be written speaks volumes about the state of internet MMA fandom.
by JRN on Nov 7, 2009 4:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
it's growing so fast
people who are new to the sport can’t be expected to instantly know the history of the sport unless we make an effort to teach them. That’s kind of my personal mission with BE.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Nov 7, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think the majority of people give Fedor his props, but it’s not an overwhelming majority from what I can tell. There are toolbags who think MMA history began in the UFC in 2005.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 7, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have rec’d this post, hoping that it will somehow find a way to stay on the main page forever.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Nov 7, 2009 4:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
thanks
I wasn’t really happy with it — was written in a rush while the 19 month old napped — but wanted to get some points across.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Nov 7, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it does a good job of getting your points across
Nice writeup.
by Sokojoe on Nov 7, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
how do you rec. a post?? i want to do it to.
Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit.
by mma is #1 on Nov 7, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Click actions below the comment then click rec
by ufc4 on Nov 7, 2009 8:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor! Fedor! Fedor!
It would be nice to see him in the UFC one day, but if not oh well. C’est la vie.
Keep firing Assholes!
I am the King of Rome, and am above grammar. -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor
by Ubernoober on Nov 7, 2009 4:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, there is one almost surefire way to spread his legend—Does anyone believe the new Pride series coming on SpikeTV will show Fedor fights? I mean they can’t just leave out one of the 5 most important Pride fighters can they?
[Tito Ortiz coughs in the background]
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 7, 2009 4:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Zulu?
Keep firing Assholes!
I am the King of Rome, and am above grammar. -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor
by Ubernoober on Nov 7, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was thinking Minowaman
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 7, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It will be interesting how they treat Hendo and Rampage in that show as well. I expect to see little more than Wanderlei, Shogun, Coleman, and Noguiera highlights.
by pdl on Nov 7, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Fedor loses tonight...
I will piss myself laughing.
The irony would just about kill me.
by SidHartman on Nov 7, 2009 4:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Even if he does lose tonight… he has nothing left to prove. He’s the best this sport has seen in its young age and I am happy as all hell to be able to witness it.
by midwestbred on Nov 7, 2009 4:51 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
rec’d for level headedness
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 7, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cept his worth as a draw
thats all he has left
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has nothing left to prove, cause he’s obviously the best HW in the world, but I’d still like to see him try his had in the UFC.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 7, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t agree with this. I don’t think he is/was the best the sport has seen. He never fought the best to be the best, he fought freak shows for 3 years.
He is the #1 HW on the planet right now and top 5 pound for pound. He isnt the best ever.
by Riney on Nov 7, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He is the #1 HW on the planet right now and top 5 pound for pound. He isnt the best ever.
But he’s been that for the last six years, I can’t think of anyone else who’s held that position longer.
by nottheface on Nov 7, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Fedor could only lose by a cut.
He cuts very easily and a few elbows from Rogers could open him up. Lindland cut him, Nogueira cut him, TK cut him, Cro Cop cut him. Could easily happen again.
I’m hoping Fedor wins by severe domination though.
by Donk696 on Nov 7, 2009 4:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Unless Roger’s has some nice MT elbows in a clinch situation—ah fuck it, I won’t even presume this. Ain’t no elbows on the ground, can’t see him doing some kind of Silva upward-elbow thing either
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 7, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Donk696 is right. Lindland didn’t cut Fedor with an elbow, he cut him with a punch. I’ve been expecting and dreading a Fedor cut stoppage loss before every one of his fights since then.
by JRN on Nov 7, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not disputing he can’t be cut by punches/knees, just don’t see a thunderstorm of elbows coming from Rogers
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 7, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha. Donk696 is right insofar as he says Fedor could definitely lose on a cut, misguided in suspecting that the cut would come from elbows.
by JRN on Nov 7, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad you're calling him Donk696
So that I don’t confuse him with the many other Donk’s on BE.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 7, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To be honest i was just thinking of a strike to insert that cuts well rather than making a prediction. I just wanted to raise an issue that not many people are considering.
But if you guys would rather be cynical and nit-pick rather than actually having something to say then be my guest.
by Donk696 on Nov 7, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree
And the third paragraph should say context instead of contest, and it should probably just be one long sentence instead of two.
by ufc4 on Nov 7, 2009 5:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
If we’re looking at the same thing, I think the sentences are fine. Kid Nate’s using anaphora to emphasize who Fedor has beaten.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 7, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, we're not looking at the same thing.
Nevermind…
Also, “through out” should be one word.
Heil, Grammar!
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 7, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor is a good fighter but not great.
Sorry guys. Fedor used to be a great fighter. Now he is only a good fighter who beats people he should be beating. Fighting Zulu, Hong Man Choi, Sylvia, and Arlovski doesn’t make you the greatest fighter since Jesus. He is good though. Let’s see if he can defend that stupid WAMMA crown tonight.
by cyrusking on Nov 7, 2009 5:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Please don't bother :)
Yes. Keep your worshiping to yourself. I respect Fedor. I said he was a great fighter. I said he was going to win tonight in 2 minutes. But he is not Jesus. He is not the best ever. Nor is he a great fighter until he proves himself against real threats. Well rounded guys. I am not talking about Lesnar.
You can hate me, ban me, curse me. But it’s the truth. I don’t worship no man. Fedor, Jesus, or whoever. You guys talk about how he will be the best ever if he wins or loses tonight. So why argue with you then? I mean Fedor can get knocked out in 20 seconds and you say he is still the greatest. I can’t change your mind, nor can Rogers or any of Fedor’s future opponents. You know what that’s called? That’s called Faith as in believing artificial facts in your head.
I respect your opinion. I will respect Fedor as a good fighter. But he can’t possibly be the best fighter ever having fought in the weakest division in MMA.
by cyrusking on Nov 7, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor is a good fighter but not great.
I said he was a great fighter.
What?
Sorry, he Jason Bourned me.
by MMAussie on Nov 7, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I said he was a great figher once
Read my original post please. I don’t consider him great “today.” He was great when he was fighting other great fighters.
by cyrusking on Nov 7, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough, you have put your point across. I just believe the points in this article alone, let alone everything Fedor has ever done, far outweigh all of the counter-points you are trying to make. That is an assumption based upon indisputable facts, not as you put it, Faith.
Sorry, he Jason Bourned me.
by MMAussie on Nov 7, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you notice, I don't dispute all the points in that article
But let’s be honest. Fedor hasn’t fought anyone who has been a real threat to him in his last 7 fights. And you can’t tell me Fedor fighting in the heavyweight has a better chance of fighting tough guys than lets say GSP at Welterweight or SIlva and Middleweight. The talent pool is much more challenging in lower weight classes.
Here is why: there aren’t too many well rounded heavyweights around. A lot of them are one trick pony. You can’t say some guy is the best ever just because he is the best in his division. It’s like LA Lakers playing in Europe, beating all those teams and claiming that they are the best. Hope the analogy makes sense.
I am not attacking Fedor’s resume before 2007. I am aware of what he has done. I have watched his fights. But I don’t worship him.
by cyrusking on Nov 7, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
one big problem
Arlovski and Sylvia were the best available opponents outside the UFC when he fought them. They are both looking much worse in retrospect because of what happened AFTER they fought Fedor. But that’s revisionist history and specious.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Nov 7, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WoW
Seriously, you should understand after tonight performance. The guy has the ability to rise to the challenge no matter what that challenge is.
It’s to the point no matter what another fight can do to him, he will still find a way to win.
You name a name at any year and Fedor has eventually fought the fight and walked away the winner. 8 years later it’s time to stop questioning.
by bignerd on Nov 8, 2009 2:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is pure ignorance a bannable offense?
Sorry, he Jason Bourned me.
by MMAussie on Nov 7, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s been so long since he fought I forgot about all the Fedor haters that come crawling out of the woodwork a day or two before the event. Then he wins in spectacular fashion and they STFU for the next few months. Lather, rinse, repeat.
by ufc4 on Nov 7, 2009 6:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
And whomever he beats becomes a “can”. I didn’t realize so many former champs were cans.
by nottheface on Nov 7, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Zulu, Hong Man Choi, and others Fedor has fought are no cans
You are right. Fedor has been tested against the best in the world. I mean Sylvia (lost faster to Ray Mercer), Arlovski (glass chin), Hong Man Choi (gets armbared all the time), Zule (for reals?), and Matt Linland (coming from like 10 divisions below) are very tough opponents. And so is Rogers who has no ground game, right? Oh yes. You are right. I am sorry. Keep worshiping him.
I don’t hate Fedor. Please don’t make up things like you put artificial facts in your head. I respect the guy but I don’t worship him like you do.
by cyrusking on Nov 7, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please stop using the "worshiping" line
It’s possible to defend a fighter without “worshiping” them.
Fact is, every fighter has some weakness, and you can discredit any fighter’s resume with similar logic. Who do you want him to fight?
If he fought Cain, someone would just bring up Cain’s lack of finishing power. If he fought Kongo, they’d point to Kongo’s other losses. If he fought Lesnar, people would cite Lesnar’s lack of experience (and then similarly discredit Lesnar’s resume just as you’ve done for Fedor), if he fights Overeem, someone will cite AO’s lack of MMA cage experience recently with his focus on K1. Who else is there?
Lets not forget, Arlovski was the consensus best opponent for Lesnar at the time they fought, a time when it was mostly accepted the the best heavyweights were outside the UFC.
I’m NOT worshiping Fedor, but your logic is flawed.
by Shaun32887 on Nov 7, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just happy I've known how incomparable he is for many years, and that I've witnessed his greatness before tonight
In a way, it’s too late for CBS to prove to the world how great Fedor is. What he’s done before today is what makes him the greatest fighter in the history of the sport, and anyone being introduced to him tonight will never really be a part of that greatness. Fedor’s got some fights left in him, but I’m happy to say that I was a witness to his legend for many years. If he retired after losing his next three fights, nothing can change that fact.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 7, 2009 5:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not really I can appreciate past fighters greatness by just watching their past fights.
by Meshuggeth on Nov 7, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But you have to admit it’s a different feeling seeing it in the moment.
by ufc4 on Nov 7, 2009 6:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Very true.
I’m just saying that legends can still be appreciated past their time.
Just look at all of the Ali, Tyson, and Bruce Lee love around the world.
by Meshuggeth on Nov 7, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m saying it’s not the same— that’s all. I imagine actually watching Ali in his day was an entirely different experience than watching a revisionist marathon on ESPN Classic or a movie starring Will Smith.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 7, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This
Of course you can watch old film, but it’s not the same. The feeling of watching Fedor and Rogers stare each other down the moment before they touch gloves and the anticipation of their initial approach simply cannot be replicated.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 7, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I find it interesting that everyone is already writing the eulogy to Fedor’s career, and that we all do it before every one of his fights. It’s like he’s too great for us to not brace ourselves for what we know is both impossible and inevitable.
by pdl on Nov 7, 2009 6:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not even close to what's happening here
Bracing ourselves for the inevitable, in the case that Fedor somehow loses.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 7, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are tons of posts about “if Fedor loses, he is still the greatest heavyweight of our time and the history of the sport.” I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment, but we, the internet community, always do this before he fights. It’s never that way even with other p4p contenders. We don’t talk about how Anderson will always be a legend, even if [contender] beats him by [contender’s strongest skill]. We don’t say BJ Penn will go down as a hero of MMA, despite any upcoming loss at LW. But every time Fedor fights, for a night or two before the event, we all act as though he is a dwindling giant heading into the twilight of his career. It may be because we’ve seen every other fighter have real losses, and won’t be as shocked to see it happen again somehow. It could be Fedor’s stoicism bordering on inhumanity creating a mystique that a loss would crush. I’m not sure why, but this tension (as anxiety rather than anticipation) is an established pattern, and I’m a part of it as well.
PS: Sorry, for the rambling, kinda got on a roll there I guess.
by pdl on Nov 7, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you have some interesting points
I think there’s such an anxiety before these “modern” Fedor fights because the “hardcores” have a sort of ownership over him—it’s because people like us know what he’s done, but the minute he loses here in the US all the casuals will be like, “What’s the big deal about this guy?” We get attached to fighters and become defensive, and I think for a lot of people this is even more so with Fedor because unlike BJ Penn, Anderson Silva, or GSP, his greatness hasn’t been realized by people who are fickle and would dispute his greatness since they never seen it.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 7, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Most of us know that its just a metter of time until he loses, be it by a superior fighters or getting up there with age.
I’m just glad I got to see one of, if not the best mixed martial artist in history.
by IRodC on Nov 7, 2009 6:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
it’s how decisively he beat some of the toughtest guys in their primes that sticks out to me. his beatings that shortened Big Nog’s life, his dismantling of CroCop, the way he finishes…..Sylvia went 5 rds with Couture. Fedor got him in less than 1 minute. Andrei winning the fight or not, got utterly crushed in one round. The way he tooled Randleman, Fujita, Coleman, Hunt, Herring…he didn’t just win, he beat guys down and finished many of them in undisputable fashion. that’s really what separates him in my mind. how decisively he’s beaten guys….when he beat CroCop….CroCop was the only guy other than Nog near the top of the food chain. He beat Coleman back around/near the time when he had won the Grand Prix……took that suplex from Randleman and finished him less than 1 min later……so many epic moments.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei.
http://theworldsoldestsport.blogspot.com/
by theworldsoldestsport on Nov 7, 2009 6:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fedor addresses his biggest ? tonight
The cage.
Fedor has never fought in a cage and it makes for a completely different fight. Rings keep fights in the middle of the ring and the ground game more fluid. With a cage, you can dirty box and ground n’ pound much easier (look at how Couture and Lesnar fight). I’m not sure Rogers is the guy to expose this weakness.
But the American MMA scene is now loaded with wrestlers with power in their hands (Lesnar, Evans, Rampage, Couture, Maynard) and the new heavyweights rising up have come from the collegiate wrestling world so they aren’t plodding Sylvia/Rothwell strikers, but full on enormous athletes. That is why I want to see Fedor in the UFC, to see him get challenged and the best be brought out of him.
by mason_beer on Nov 7, 2009 6:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Watching old Fedor fights on the PRIDE highlight shows that used to run (before the UFC acquired PRIDE) was what got me into MMA. So, despite not having watched his career in PRIDE as it happened, I want to give you props for this post and reminding people of Fedor’s history.
by BTastros on Nov 7, 2009 8:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by 


















